If liberman wins the primary against Ned Lamont, I do not see much

[still_one]

hope for us in November

We are talking about a blue state which is predominately against the Iraq war, and if they nominate liberman for another term, I don't think it takes rocket science to see why we keep losing elections. What distinguishes us from the republicans?

[bklyncowgirl]

1. Throwing an entrenched incumbent out of office is not easy.

Holy Joe has been made to sweat by the Democratic rank and file in his state who are furious that he would kowtow to Bush.

Even if he wins the primary it's a warning to other appeasement minded Democrats that they better start dancing with them that brung them.

[still_one]

4. I do not view it that way

This is "suppossed" to be a liberal state. We have liberman who has supported the confirmation of right wing supreme court judges, supports an illegal war, is for prayer in schools, believes if a woman is raped and taken to a hospital that does NOT believe in abortion, it is OK if they refuse to give her the morning after pill even if she or her doctor request it

These are NOT Democratic values

Keep in mind that liberman is a friend of hanity, and that in itself says a lot

We will see what today brings, but I have lost a tremendous amount of faith in the people in this country. Their freedoms are being taken away, and they could care less.

As Ben Franklin said, "Those who would give up a little freedom for a little safety deserve neither"

[Lasher]

2. Polls indicate Lieberman will win the primary and general by wide margins

Even if Lamont wins in the primary (which seems highly unlikely), Lieberman would win in the general election, running as an Independent. I just posted recent polling information in the Connecticut forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=143x2868

[sendero]

5. Predicting..

... what will happen months from now based on polls taken now is pretty risky business.

Unless you have a functional crystal ball, I'd say your prognostication is only a guess.

[Lasher]

13. It's not a guess, it's a forecast

OK they mean the same thing but it sounds better to call it a forecast.

[sendero]

28. It could be a "forecast"....

... or it could be the typical Republican-style attempt to create an "aura of inevitability" around Lieberman's candidacy.

It's not over 'til the curtain comes down, all it would take is for the Iraq debacle to take another serious turn for the worse, or Lieberman to become seriously ill or people to wake the fuck up.

So, I'm sending Lamont money and hoping for the best - to teach just ONE SENATOR that his cushy-ass perk-encrusted job is NOT god-given and that if he shoots his mouth off too much his constituents might decide to send his sorry ass home.

[still_one]

7. I realize that, and that is pathetic

I look at the last six years, and except for a small group in Congress, the Democratic party has left me

This stay the course crap is going to KILL a lot more Americans, and just like Viet Nam, those that perpetuated it ON BOTH SIDES will NOT be punished at the polls

[Lasher]

11. I feel the same way

First and foremost, I want Democrats to win in the general election.

The Quinnipiac University poll suggests that Lamont is still relatively unknown:

Is your opinion of businessman Ned Lamont favorable, unfavorable, mixed, or haven't you heard enough about him?

Favorable 3%
Unfavorable 3%
Mixed 3%
Haven't heard enough 90%

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=909

Even so, it appears Lamont would narrowly beat either potential Republican challenger in a 2 way contest in the general election. But this seems academic, since Lieberman would run and win as an Independent.

If we are to win we must field moderate candidates in states where we have a slim or nonexistent Democratic majority. This is just reality. But in a solidly Democratic state like Connecticut, re-election of a Senator like Lieberman seems a bitter pill to swallow.

But if Lieberman wins in the primary we need to get behind him. Eyes on the prize: Democrats in control of the Senate.

[still_one]

16. I hear you, and respect your views, but I cannot get behind Lieberman

Since I am NOT from Connecticut, it probably doesn't matter much, though I have donated Ned Lamont, and I did donate in the 2000 campaign to the Gore/Liberman ticket

The reason I cannot support Lieberman is not only his position on the war, though that is paramont. He is for prayer in schools, he has stated that hospitals that provide service to the public have a right to refuse to give a woman who has been raped the morning after pill if it is against their belief. He has supportted the nomination of extreme right wing Supreme court justices, and his position on school vouchers does NOT endear him to me.

There is a reason why people such as Sean Hannity support him. It is because he shares their views. Those views I do NOT regard as Democratic.

[Lasher]

23. Those are all good reasons to wish for a better Democratic candidate

I'm not from Connecticut either, I'm from West Virginia. But I have been tracking all polls that exist for every Senate race, and will continue to do so until the general election is over. For the competitive races I have been posting that information in the DU Research Forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x351

I don't know much about Lamont, since my thought process pretty much ended with a conclusion that it is highly likely that Lieberman will win in the primary - and also in the general, even if he runs as an Independent. But there are ways to get Lieberman to support our collective ideals.

For example, he is Ranking Member of the Homeland Security Committee. If we win a majority in the Senate I would expect he would end up being chairman of that committee. Or maybe he could end up sucking his thumb if he doesn't straighten up.

I understand you can't support Lieberman in any case, and I respect that. I believe the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican, so I'm naturally inclined to get behind our candidates after the primaries are over. But here's the thing: Skinner posted a message a while back, saying that it's OK to whup up on our candidates until the primaries are over, but he expects us to be supportive of Democrats after that, or keep our thoughts to ourselves. I think that's appropriate. After all this is the Democratic Underground.

Hey lookee here, I found it, just for you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=548538

I thought it was one of his better contributions.

I admire your enthusiasm. We need a lot more of that in our party. But we must also stay focused if we are to win at least one house of Congress this year.

[still_one]

25. thanks, I appreciate your thoughts

I guess we do have critical thinkers

Incidently, because I cannot support Liberman does NOT mean I support the republicans, and after the primaries I will NOT work to defeat him, I just won't support him

[Larkspur]

29. No one accurately predicted that Ned Lamont would get 33.4% of the

Dem convention delegate vote. The Lieberman camp used 30-35% to raise expectations, so that when Ned didn't reach those numbers they would use it against him, but the Lieberman camp were outflanked by small to medium size towns who were not under the thumb of a Dem machine and voted a significant margin for Lamont.

The 33.4% of the convention delegate vote was over twice what Lamont needed to secure a spot on the primary ballot. It was a defeat for Lieberman's threats about running Independent if he was forced into a primary battle.

Also these polls don't show what will happen when Lieberman turns Independent and major players in the Dem Party back Lamont over Lieberman. An Independent Lieberman will not have the support of the Dem Party infrastructure to help him. He'll have some allies, but George Jepsen and other prominent Dem Party stalwarts have said that they will back the Dem Primary winner. They along with Lamont's campaign and vocal supporters will pressure CT Dem Party to back Lamont and cut off all Dem Party assistance to and Independent Lieberman. One of Lieberman's former aides just took over the Exec Committee spot and he could be pressured to resign if he decides to back and Independent Lieberman. DNC Chair Howard Dean will back the Dem Primary winner. The DSCC is the only group that says that they may still back Lieberman.

Lieberman will lose a lot of support he takes for granted if he goes Independent and that loss of support will hurt his poll numbers among Dems and Dem-leaning Independents.

[monarch]

20. May 2nd is not recent. n/t

[Lasher]

26. All things are relative

I guess you're right, the poll is a month old. I've been tracking all the Senate races and the latest scoop for some is dated March 30. In the context of my post, however, I guess I should have said latest instead of recent.

Here is an even older one (April 27) from Rasmussen:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2006/State%20Polls/April%202006/Connecticut%20Senate%20April.htm

[Minnesota Libra]

3. Don't worry about it Pres Al Gore will blow him out of the water. lol nt

[still_one]

9. I wish you were right

[Grebrook]

6. Most Democrats will hold their nose and vote Lieberman because

they think Lamont can't win the general election, which is true. Lamont gets more of the vote than the generic Republican, but less than Weicker, and only half of Lieberman's if he runs as an independent.

I think people should stop wasting energy on Lieberman and focus on fighting Republicans. He's still useful for 80% of his votes and he's been acting like less of a rat lately, honestly. I haven't heard him defending Bush lately, in the last two or three months. I think he's scared now and he's keeping his mouth shut. So in that sense I support Lamont's primary coup-de-tat attempt, because it'll force Lieberman to become more liberal.

[still_one]

8. Then those people who believe that are also partly responsible

for killing American soldiers in a war THAT IS BASED ON A LIE.

In addition, they will also be responsible for the over-turning of a woman's right to choose, and the disintigration of our freedoms

THIS COUNTRY DESERVES EXACTLY WHAT IT ELECTS, and they will get it

[Minnesota Libra]

10. A big WELCOME to DU - you're going to love it here or...............

.....hate it here depending on your political leanings. I, for one, hope you love it here.:hug:

Now for your post........Yes, I'd hold my breath and take plenty of Pepto Bismol so I could pull that lever or push that button for Lieberman:puke: but I don't think it's going to come to that.:applause:

President Gore is going to run again!! I just have that gut feeling that he's waiting to announce until sometime next year but he will announce.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[still_one]

12. I am not sure about Gore running

After seeing "The Inconvient Truth", it seems to me that Gore may have found a different path to exert his influence

Don't get me wrong, I would love a Gore/Clark, Gore/Feingold Gore/??? ticket, I just don't know if he wants to put up with the political lies, attacks and distortions. He may be able to accomplish more outside of the political arena

[ribrepin]

30. The day after Lieberman is reelected

He will be macking on Bush and breaking bread with Hannity. Remember Hannity endorsed him. He'll also be lecturing Democrats on showing the proper enthusiasm for the war or he will label us unpatriotic.

"I haven't heard him defending Bush lately, in the last two or three months." Not jumping in bed with republicans is Joe's form of a gay marriage amendment.

A pox on Joementum house.

Sorry to be so crabby. I'm tired and Joe really irritates me.

[BeachBuckeye]

14. And don't rule out Lieberman changing to Republican AFTER he wins

I think he is going to wait and see who controls the Senate and then go for the best deal. I believe its highly likely he will switch to the Republican Party if they hold onto the Senate. On the other hand, if the Democrats win by a margin of one the Repubs might just offer him a deal he can't refuse and THEN he'll make the switch. Whatever is best for Joe Lieberman is what he will do. Screw what the voters want....like most others in political life Lieberman is there for himself only.

[William769]

15. If he wins the primary that means the people of CT want him

Why would that mean we keep losing elections.

Someone in CT could say the very same thing about who you want to win where you live but that doesn't make the statement any trurer. Just some food for thought.

[still_one]

17. Rightly or wrongly I am using it as a bell weather

CT in the past has been a LIBERAL state. If after six years of lies, which Senator Liberman has for the most part supported, and even taken part in, wins the primary, that indicates to me that demographics may have changed, and may not only reflect CT, but also the whole country.

I look at South Dakota, the state that gave us George McGovern, and now that state is banning abortion except if the life of the mother is at stake. Forget about rape or incest.

There was a time when the whole country was for a woman's right to choose. Is that still the case?

Is the ammendment to ban gay marriage and flag burning as important as those who control congress would like us to believe?

Even though bushco is down in the polls, I suspect the country has taken a turn toward less progressive ideas

I hope my extrapolation is wrong, and this is not a reflection of future elections, and we will be able to distinguish ourselves from those that are in power today, which I do NOT belive Liberman has done

[William769]

18. I don't care for Liberman's politics either

But I do believe that all politics are local.

"There was a time when the whole country was for a woman's right to choose. Is that still the case?" Doesn't matter that will be fought in the courts (9 people).


"Is the ammendment to ban gay marriage and flag burning as important as those who control congress would like us to believe?" NO! thats why they haven't been passed.

The other side is good at getting their message out. That doesn't mean that they will win just means they are wll organized.

As a Gay man I still believe in America & that the right thing will be done. Just takes a little time.

[still_one]

22. I hear ya

[underpants]

19. Lieberman is going to win

unseating a Senator with the cash flow he has is almost unheard of.

[monarch]

21. Some people amaze me!

Where do all of you out-of-staters get off being so positive about what is going to happen with OUR primary? It is more than a little annoying! We here in CT read our newspapers, watch our local TV, listen to local radio shows and speak to actual voters. We KNOW what is happening right now, right here. Don't try to tell us what you think reality is.

[still_one]

24. I am one of those out-of-staters who has been contributing to Ned Lamont

I have no idea what dynamics are, just what I read in the MSM, which I don't trust

As far as opinions, thats all any of us have, I don't think anyone is trying to tell CT what reality is. I do believe that Liberman has caused a lot of disappointment among progressive Democrats throughout the country on positions he has taken.

I also believe that my Senator, Feinstein, has also caused a lot of disappoinment among progressive Democrats throughout the country

I wish you and your state the best, but because every Senator in Congress can affect the direction of the country, I think that is why there is so much interest

[warrens]

27. Incumbants almost never lose a primary

Unless they're running from jail. Lieberman has no doubt brought home a lot of bacon, and a lot of democrats aren't going to abandon him over the war. If I still lived there, I'd vote for Lamont in a heartbeat. But trying to say this means the Dem party is the same as the GOP is ridiculous. On most issues, Lieberman is a moderate Dem.