DO YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT US TROOPS OR VETS? DOES ANYONE IN DC CARE?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

I'm a Vietnam Veteran who requires care at a VA Hospital
and I think one leading Democrat cares.

Senator John Kerry writes:

Dear DU,

It's as simple as this. Most members of Congress, myself included, share some responsibility for getting us into Iraq. We've got to take responsibility for getting us out.

Since April, hundreds of thousands of you have joined me in calling for a change in policy, a change in course -- for Iraq, and for Americans here at home. Now let's turn the volume up higher. Washington needs to hear your voice.

The violence continues to spiral in Iraq. But, instead of a deadline to bring our troops home and put the future of Iraq in the hands of Iraqi leaders, we get half-hearted comments about past mistakes, and cynical political calculation.

Last month, I introduced Senate Joint Resolution 36 which calls for the withdrawal of our combat troops from Iraq by the end of this year. In the next few weeks, I am urging the Senate to take a strong stand on Iraq and pass this Resolution. It's time to put the future of Iraq where it belongs - in the hands of the Iraqi people and their leaders. Our valiant soldiers have done their job.

Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006
http://www.johnkerry.com/action/call/senate/?sc=e.20060602

President Bush wants to stumble along, perpetuating his mistakes for the remainder of his time in office. He's even suggested that decisions about withdrawing all of our troops from Iraq will be for the next president to make.

And, instead of statesmanship, the president's top adviser, Karl Rove, is worrying that the war has put voters in a "sour mood" for the 2006 elections. He should be worried about the safety of our troops, not the job security of Republican congressmen.

It took President Bush three years to admit he was wrong to say 'bring it on.' We can't afford years to go by until he admits the standstill in Iraq today is wrong.

Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006
http://www.johnkerry.com/action/call/senate/?sc=e.20060602

After months of squabbling and delay, we now hear that the new Iraqi government will complete its cabinet in a matter of days. So, it's time to act -- time to keep the pressure on.

Iraqi leaders have only responded to deadlines -- a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, a deadline to hold three elections, and their own constitutional deadline to establish a unity government.

Now we must set another deadline to get our combat troops out and get Iraq up on its own two feet. We must agree with the new Iraqi government on a schedule for withdrawing American combat forces by the end of this year.

Doing so will empower the new Iraqi leadership, put Iraqis in the position of running their own country, and undermine support for the insurgency, which is fueled in large measure by the majority of Iraqis who want us to leave their country.

Tell your Senators: support Senate Joint Resolution 36 to bring our combat troops home in 2006
http://www.johnkerry.com/action/call/senate/?sc=e.20060602

Our soldiers have done their job, and America is grateful to them for their honor and sacrifice. Now it's time for the Iraqis to do their job of securing and governing their country and it is time to get our combat troops home in 2006. Only troops essential to finishing the job of training Iraqi forces should remain.

We need blunt talk and clear plans -- and only pressure from you can force Washington to change course.

I am committed to forcing Congress to speak out on Iraq. Yesterday in Los Angeles I made it clear that I'm not going to stop fighting until we have a change in policy. I urge you to keep supporting our efforts to force action when lives are on the line and leadership is desperately needed.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

make a contribution: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/form.html?sc=7054

[Lib Grrrrl]

1. Bluntly....

PLEASE, PEOPLE....BEFORE YOU FLAME THE HELL OUT OF ME...READ THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN. PLEASE DON'T HATE ME FOR BEING HONEST!!


No. Sorry. I don't have anyone I know or love over there. Sorry for those of you who do. But, this thing just hasn't really hit me where I live yet. I know, for many of you...it has, because you have loved ones at risk. For you, I am sorry. I empathize. But do I really care? Not really. that's the blunt truth, and if it hurts anyone, I truly am sorry. BUT, that is the reality.

all these ass holes on the right wing going on about "Support Our Troops" well, count them in my camp on this one. They give lip-service, and they claim to care, but deep down...they don't. and it is because it hasn't HIT THEM WHERE THEY LIVE that they don't care.

To them, "Support Our Troops" is code for "Support George W" or, to be even more blunt..."Support Our Tax Cut...Screw The Troops!"

Now, me...I don't support the troops or care for one very basic reason. They are supposedly fighting for all of our rights...right?

Well, every day, our troops are fighting...for what? We are losing our rights! And I, as a transsexual, have even fewer rights already than the rest of you.

And I know that, quite frankly, 8 in ten servicemen, at least...would probably support the policies that keep me oppressed. so why should I care about them? they wouldn't care very much about me...they are Republicansd, almost to a man.

again, I am being perfectly blunt and honest here, and if my words offend, I truly apologize. But...exactly what else could you expect me to feel? As I already said, it isn't like anyone I know is over there...and it isn't as though most of them would support equal rights for ME...so why should I care? Fact is, I don't.

I don't want them killed, I don't want them hurt, I don't want them over there at all. But do I care? Does it really affect my daily life? The answer is no. And, I suspect, if a lot of Americans were honest about it...they probably don't care, either.

We have forgotten what it once meant to be American.

Me, I'm simply pissed off, because, to paraphrase MLK, Jr, my government gave me a fucking bad check! They promised me things, and they are failing to deliver. And so I'm pissed.

I wonder...if given orders by christo-fascists now in power...how many of our servicemen would throw ME into a crematorium, and not think twice about it??

This is something I never thought I would have to think about, but I DO, in this new Amerikkka. and it's why I can't blindly give me support...or care...to "troops," to people I do not even know...to people who might, at a single word of command from the crazies now in power...become the stormtroopers that would, without a qualm, commit me to death in a crematorium or worse.

I never thought I would say or write these words. I never thought America could get this bad!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

9. and all those ethnic troops from low-income areas are "republicansd" huh?

that little sentence puts your whole post in question, Lib Grrrrl. You might want to consider maintaining some semblance of credibility in your writing.

[Lib Grrrrl]

21. Most Military People ARE

That's documented. Like 8 out of 10 service members are Republicans.

More to the point, they are also accustomed to taking orders. How do I know the bozo's in charge won't give them the orders to start being stormtroopers, and do horrible things to ME?!?! and how many of them would question their orders? Given Abu Ghraib...I think there's plenty of potential stormtroopers.

sorry, but I just can't support people I do not personally know...or people who I know MAY NOT HAVE MY BEST INTERESTS AT HEART. I don't know...but i'm betting a fair number of our troops, if given orders to do so...would throw people into concentration camps.

To me, supporting the troops, right now, is tantamount to supporting those who control the troops. And I can't support this government at this time. Can't do it. It's evil, and I'm scared as hell of it. And, yes, I am scared of the troops - scared of what they would be willing to do to me, if given the orders to do so.

Believe me, the fascists running our country right now would love nothing more than to build concentration camps, and exteriminate queer transsexual people like me. Now how can I support the very people who, if given orders to send me to a crematorium...would probably do it? This is the MILITARY, remember!!

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

36. go ahead newby... if it's so "annoying" why do you keep posting?

oh noooo! war-mongers might ignore me! Of course, no one thinks you're a freeper or war-monger, from what you've posted here, Lib Grrrrl. We ALL think you're exactly what you say you are: a transexual who is afraid to bring our troops home that doesn't care what the war costs in lives or money. It's odd how your last post all my threads right together. how nice! thanks

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

47. ok bye... have a nice life

[Breeze54]

15. I do care

I'm the mother of two of them there 'troops'....

But I hear what you are saying.

But I still do care. I always will....

The 'troops' are PEOPLE.

I hope I didn't misread what you wrote.
I admit, I skimmed it.

I think I got the gist of it...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

19. all Kerry and many at DU that seek peace ask is for you to call...

Please call your Senators tomorrow and tell them to support the new Kerry deadline for withdrawal from Iraq.

[Breeze54]

29. Kerry's my Senator. I'm well aware....n/t

[Lib Grrrrl]

22. Well, I Hope You Didn't Misread It, Either

But can you understand my fears?

I am AFRAID of what troops conditioned to take orders might do to someone like me, if given the orders to do it. and given the christo-fascists who give the orders, I am very scared of potential stormtroopers. Sorry, but I am being perfectly blunt, here.

MILITARY are conditioned to follow orders. Not to question them. what happens when the christo-fascists in power finally decide they can get away with opening concentration camps and crematoriums? Who do you think will get the order to feed queer transsexual people like me, alive, to the crematoriums? I am scared for my life from the troops right now...because of who has the power over the troops!

It would be SO EASY for them in power to turn this military against american citizens! and what's to say they won't? and how many in the military would even question it?

[Breeze54]

28. What? Do you think I don't remember Kent State?

I remember ALL of it!! I was and am still just as freaked out about it!

I don't know about other soldiers but my 2nd oldest is OUT of the USMC!
Is in the reserves now, and that will be over very soon too!

My oldest just got back from Iraq, after being STOP LOSSED,
and if you think he gives a rats ass about the military?

You are DEAD WRONG!!!!!!!! :rofl:

He's fucking pissed off and so are 130 other National Guard citizen soldiers
that were stop-lossed with him and they are OUT OF THERE!!!
Last formation is in August - mandatory formation.
(bush's 90 day before and after stop-loss crap!)

Then he's GONE!!!!!!!! O - U - T!!!!!

FINI'!!!!

BTW?
I never encouraged my son's to join the military -- EVER!!!
...and was totally shocked when I got that news! heartbroken....
We, my ex and I are divorced and I think 'grandpa' convinced them it was a good idea. Fucker!!!
I always hated that chauvanistic fake christian evangilistic pig!
Inlaws! Argh!!!!
:grr:

[Lib Grrrrl]

35. I Believe You Do

And I remember reading about it in my history books. All the more reason to be scared of the military in general. See what military can do if given orders??

Now, on a personal level to you, I hope your son makes it home, and I hope he does so alive, and that he gets the hell out of the military.

But, I think you can understand my fears. I wish I could call them paranoid rantings, but, given the fascists in power right now, I can't. I really have to consider the possibility. I am afraid of my government. because I know that, in my government right now...there are men with the power to...and the desire to...execute me with extreme prejudice...for no better reason than the fact of my gender identity.

[rucky]

26. "The troops" can stop this madness.

by refusing to fight an illegal war.

If they have the courage to fight an illegal war, then they should have the courage to not fight it. You can't dump 'em all in crematoriums.

[MercutioATC]

2. Kerry was specifically addressing DU in this statement??

C'mon...I wanna hear somebody claim that Kerry deigned to actually create a "Dear DU" message...

This is a website form letter that somebody selected to be addresed to "DU".

More bullshit political misrepresentations.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

3. no I do these on a regular basis... is this the first you've read?

Kerry emails me and I pass it along. thanks for the kick

[MercutioATC]

4. Why do you intentionally misrepresent the intended recipient?

If this was a mass mailing, why do you feel the need to pretend it was addressed to DU?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. I'm not "pretending" a damn thing MercutioATC

as I said, I've been doing these in this format for months and you're the first person to attack so vehemently. I do them like this from Feingold and TrueMajority too, so you need to get over it, because I'm not changing for you.

[MercutioATC]

8. Seriously, why do you feel the need to edit the recipient field?

You're posting a Kerry mass-mailing and selectively editing the "Dear XXX" line to read "Dear DU". DU was not the intended recipient of the message. That's misrepresentation.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

10. It's just how I've always done it... it's not actually a "need"

they all make it to "greatest page" because Kerry has so much support and this one will too, just watch.

What's important here, is you calling your senator to end the war tomorrow. Can we count on you, MercutioATC?

[MercutioATC]

13. Well, as long as "they all make it to the "greatest page""......

:eyes:

It just my opinion, and I'm sure there are many who enjoy this dog and pony show...

When you intentionally misrepresent facts, however "innocently", you weaken the entire cause. It's a fact that Kerry didn't send this message addressed to "Dear DU". It's a fact that you changed the "Dear XXXX" line to make it seem as if he did. It's a dishonest, silly misrepresentation that accomplishes nothing....unless you're trying to make people that John Kerry is reading DU and listening to its members' concerns (which he isn't).

Wanna post Kerry's mass mailings to you (that most of us get anyway)? Great. Don't edit his posts. Leave them just as he posts them.

Geez...I shouldn't even have to explain this...


...and yes, I've called/emailed Congressmen to bring our troops home.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. have you called on this recent legislation by Kerry? i just got this email

[Lib Grrrrl]

23. I Hate To Say This

and once again, try to understand my FEAR...and where it is coming from...

given who is in power right now...and who has power to give orders to the military...I feel safer with the military over THERE...than with them here at home, to be used as potential stormtroopers against enemies of this fascist regime's choosing!

How long, before the whackos in charge feed their obvious burning desire to open concentration camps and exterminate people like me? and just who did you think would get the orders? And carry them out?

I AM HONESTLY AFRAID OF THE MILITARY RIGHT NOW - BECAUSE OF WHO IS IN CHARGE!!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

32. Here's a link for our troops, a tribute to minorities that fought in Nam

In the 1960’s an anti-war movement emerged that altered the course of history. This movement didn’t take place on college campuses, but in barracks and on aircraft carriers. It flourished in army stockades, navy brigs and in the dingy towns that surround military bases. It penetrated elite military colleges like West Point. And it spread throughout the battlefields of Vietnam. It was a movement no one expected, least of all those in it. Hundreds went to prison and thousands into exile. And by 1971 it had, in the words of one colonel, infested the entire armed services. Yet today few people know about the GI movement against the war in Vietnam.

The Vietnam War has been the subject of hundreds of films, both fiction and non-fiction, but this story–the story of the rebellion of thousands of American soldiers against the war–has never been told in film.This is certainly not for lack of evidence. By the Pentagon’s own figures, 503,926 “incidents of desertion” occurred between 1966 and 1971; officers were being “fragged”(killed with fragmentation grenades by their own troops) at an alarming rate; and by 1971 entire units were refusing to go into battle in unprecedented numbers. In the course of a few short years, over 100 underground newspapers were published by soldiers around the world; local and national antiwar GI organizations were joined by thousands; thousands more demonstrated against the war at every major base in the world in 1970 and 1971, including in Vietnam itself; stockades and federal prisons were filling up with soldiers jailed for their opposition to the war and the military.

Yet few today know of these history-changing events.

Sir! No Sir! will change all that. The film does four things: 1) Brings to life the history of the GI movement through the stories of those who were part of it; 2) Reveals the explosion of defiance that the movement gave birth to with never-before-seen archival material; 3) Explores the profound impact that movement had on the military and the war itself; and 4) The feature, 90 minute version, also tells the story of how and why the GI Movement has been erased from the public memory.

I was part of that movement during the 60’s, and have an intimate connection with it. For two years I worked as a civilian at the Oleo Strut in Killeen, Texas–one of dozens of coffeehouses that were opened near military bases to support the efforts of antiwar soldiers. I helped organize demonstrations of over 1,000 soldiers against the war and the military; I worked with guys from small towns and urban ghettos who had joined the military and gone to Vietnam out of a deep sense of duty and now risked their lives and futures to end the war; and I helped defend them when they were jailed for their antiwar activities. My deep connection with the GI movement has given me unprecedented access to those involved, along with a tremendous amount of archival material including photographs, underground papers, local news coverage and personal 8mm footage. Sir! No Sir! reveals how, thirty years later, the poem by Bertolt Brecht that became an anthem of the GI Movement still resonates:

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect: He can think.

http://www.sirnosir.com/home_about_film.html

[Jeffersons Ghost]

11. IANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS MercutioATC. WILL YOU ANSWER MINE?

[MercutioATC]

16. I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION Jeffersons Ghost. WILL YOU READ IT?

Christ. Settle down.

Read Post #13.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

61. yep and thanks for the dabate. you're ok by me

[MercutioATC]

62. Likewise.

I may disagree with your methods, but we're both fighting the same fight...it's a family squabble, not a disagreement of issues.

[stepnw1f]

38. I Think It's More Effective This Way

Besides, Kerry sends these out to everybody. I see nothing wrong with Ghost placing DU iin the Addressee line. Besides, it's for a pretty good cause.

[dysfunctional press]

5. personally, i'm torn...

i kind of want to support them, but i really can't- i don't feel that anyone fighting in iraq is doing anything to actually protect me or my freedoms. i was more supportive of afghanistan- at first, and solely because of 9/11. but with the installation of chevron karzai, my enthusiasm for that part of the war waned considerably.
the defense department/budget is extremely bloated, and mcuh of it actually unnecessary in today's world. wars are stupid- particularly the ones waged for no real reason- a waste of money, resources, and especially people...and i have a hard time suppporting any part of it, or anyone who's involved with it.
just my opinion.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

7. how about us from Nam? Can we rot and die in card-board boxes?

and so you think we should stay in Iraq QuestionAll or just stop paying our troops and leave them there?

[niyad]

24. believe me, a lot of us care-- I watched 'nam destroy countless people

I knew (both as the wife of one, and counsellor to many others), and am holding the hand of a dear friend whose brother is dying of the effects of agent orange right now. I never wanted to see other families go through what we did--and yet, two more sets of them are doing just that. I care for the countless numbers whose deaths can be laid in 'nam, but who will never been on the wall. I care for the ones who are still the walking wounded, or dead men walking. I care for all those who are referred to in "waiting for an army to die", and I think the way the system has treated them --and is going to treat this group--is obscene. I have been fighting the VA and the whole rotten system for more years than I care to think about, and will go on doing so as long as there is a single breath left. so, yes, JG, we care, we care very much indeed.

[dysfunctional press]

25. as far as iraq is concerned- we broke it, we bought it...

used to be my thinking- but at this point, it seems that we're still causing more harm than good in a lot of ways- i'd like to think it's time to bring them home, and let the iraqi people figure it out- but i think that would also make things worse- with iran being drawn into the shiite-sunni thing, and the kurds seeking autonomy for themselves- with turkey coming in toi put the kabash in that- it's one bloody fucking mess we've caused over there- and i honestly have no idea what the best solution is...but once we're out- i would love to see a national discussion on national defense that results in a much-reduced share of the taxper pie for the war machine.

vietnam was another iraq-type mistake, in that it had absolutely nothing to do with national defense...as a country, we NEVER learn.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

33. give up and win is all I've got to say. you can't afford to stay in Iraq

your senators have bankrupted you with this war. call them and say we're not paying any more!

[dysfunctional press]

56. believe me, i know...

when i think of all the social good that could have been accomplished with that TRILLION fucking dollars plus that we'll eventually spend on iraq, i just want to cry- that was any chance i would have had to see real meaningful positive change in my lifetime, and now it's gone.
I don't know what the answer is to the mess THEY'VE made, and i sure as hell know that THEY don't either- but an across the board pull out seems like it would ultimately create even more problems...and the american people still won't learn anything, no matter what happens.

it's just sad all around.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

57. we've got to pull out someday. whenever we the Iraq civil war takes place

it was always unavoidable and the war was NEVER winable if bringing democracy is the goal, which it originally wasn't according to all the Republicans in DC. The longer we stay the more it costs in lives and money.

[dysfunctional press]

63. we should at least make sure that iraq has a standing army-

capable of defending itself. i would see that as a minimum moral requirement before we can even consider pulling our troops out.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. I hope that we can get our troops home in 2006!!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

14. i know you do because i know you're true blue BrklynLiberal

and I know I can count on you to call your senators to end this murderfest in Iraq in the morning. thank god for true-blues like you.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. Schumer and Hillary will be hearing from me!!!!

:thumbsup:

[Dr.Phool]

20. Wishful thinking.

The chimp has already said that they're not coming home while he's president. And as I continually point out, they are building "PERMANENT" military bases over there. All this crap about when the Iraqi military stands up, we'll stand down, just gives some of us false hope.

We've got our share of assholes in Congress and the Senate, who would send more troops over there tomorrow if they could.

I don't even know that if we took over Congress and de-funded the war, the traitorous murderer in the White House would honor the law.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

30. exactly which is why we must keep calling asshole senators as kerry asks

Here's the names of two ASSHOLE SENATORS I'M CALLING TODAY: SESSIONS AND SHELBY who are dying to prolong this war.

No I take it back it's our troops who are dying because Republican Senators prolong the war.

[Lib Grrrrl]

37. Really?

and did you think that Specter and Santorum were any less asshole than the guys you got? Calling them is useless.
That's who I would have to deal with. The only good news is that, in the latest poll, Bob Casey Jr is 22 percentage points ahead of Santorum - that is a lead that would be very hard to Diebold.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

39. then call other senators. they don't even ask where you live

but if they do, say you won't give your address because you don't want solicitations from people in office trying to protect their jobs and hang up!

[Lib Grrrrl]

41. you Don't Get It, DO YOU??

I don't support your cause!!

with the people in power right now just ITCHING to use the military, I feel a lot better having them over there...than having them at home!

How long after they got home do you think Bush would satisfy his itch by turning the military on American citizens?

I don't wish harm to them, but I DO sleep better at night knowing they are OVER THERE...and not IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, okay?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

42. FEAR NOT! they won't be in a fighting mood when w bring them home.

they'll be at the VA with me, fighting PTSD and fighting against ALL WAR FOREVER! BTW, I wonder how many at DU find your attacks all over this thread ludicrous?

[nonconformist]

43. Oh wow.

That's some fucked up shit right there.

[Lib Grrrrl]

44. What?

what's fucked up? That I recognize that those in power right now are DYING to use the military? and that I'd rather they used the military against SOMEONE ELSE?? Hey, just being honest here...we are talking self-preservation.

[nonconformist]

45. You're just really, really uninformed is all. nt

[Lib Grrrrl]

46. And Your Basis For That Assertion Is What, Exactly?

I see the signs around me. and they scare the hell out of me.

Do not deny that Bush and his cronies are absolutely rabid with desire to USE the military. And, if denied an external target, how long do you think before Bush finally cracks, and USES the military against Americans?

I believe it possible.

And that makes me "uninformed?" Because I believe what my eyes tell me?

[democrank]

27. Bring our troops home and replace them

with the PNAC members, Donald Rumsfeld and the Chickenhawk president and VP. Let them wander around Baghdad for two or three tours. No protective vests, by the way.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

49. when democrank and i met it was during a bad DU flame war. we disagreed

but when the going gets tought true-blue democrats stick together! THANKS DEMOCRANK!

[mdmc]

48. support the vets

We are in Iraq until there is a stable pro-west democracy based in Baghdad.

I never thought that this was possible. Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer think it is. All you mealy mouth pro war dems went along with this idea, and the dem party is split on this issue. Most "stay the coursers" feel that we are committed, and must remain.

We are there for the long haul - that is a fact. Your vote will haunt you just like George Bush's presidency will haunt the "Walker" family name. Bush has turned "W" into a synonym for incompetence.

Kerry will alway be a war enabler.

[Qanisqineq]

50. Yes

I'm married to one (an active duty soldier that served in Iraq). I hear first-hand about how Bush is fucking up the military. I hear about how much many soldiers disagree with this war. I know how difficult it is to "just go AWOL" to avoid fighting an illegal war for many different reasons. Many enlisted are already suffering from financial hardship (often very serious debt) and really couldn't afford to do it. This is why I really hate reading that all troops that serve in Iraq are war criminals simply because they serve there and this is an illegal war.

No, I am not saying all or the majority or any significant percentage of DUers believe all the troops are war criminals or don't support the troops. But I have had DUers tell me that my husband is a war criminal for simply serving in Iraq. I know who they are and they know who they are. It saddens me that I cannot bring myself to read any of their posts on any other topic; it isn't just a difference of opinion between us, they accuse my husband of something horrible and I cannot get past that. It's too bad because one of those people is in the same field as me (he is unaware) and we could possibly have interesting discussions on certain topics.

I support the troops. But I am tired of having to explain why or explain that no, I do not support those that commit war crimes or that supporting the troops does not mean supporting the war. All that should be self explanatory.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

51. thanks Qanisqineq that says it all. let's make the call to bring them home

all we are saying is give peace a chance!

[peacebaby3]

54. I hear you! I've been very hurt and disappointed in some of the things I

read here lately. I certainly can't speak for you, but I feel like nobody really understands so I just avoid those really arrogant yet ignorant posts I've seen lately.

[BrklynLiberal]

52. kick

[Jeffersons Ghost]

58. thanks

[peacebaby3]

53. As the wife of a soldier who has served for nearly 20 years. I don't

believe that anyone REALLY cares about or supports the troops. I think for the most part people like to say they do when it serves their purpose, bash them when it serves their purpose, but does anybody really give a crap unless they have a close loved one serving? Nope. Most people in this country don't have to sacrifice if they don't know anyone if the military. Everyone used to feel the pain and horror of war when they had to live off rations and work in plants to make what was needed for the troops. Everyone had to worry about whether their loved one would serve and if they did, would they come home alive. Not anymore. Now most people go on living just as they always have and barely notice what is even going on.

You can see by some of the posts in this thread what many people feel about the military and on the other side of the coin you have those that hate you because you don't support the chimp and the sham they call a "war." It's funny because I've seen both the "left" and the "right" go after my husband in the military. He's been called a traitor by the "right" because he doesn't support this administration or the "war" and a traitor by the "left" because he hasn't gone AWOL, gone to jail and let his family go hungry and lose everything they own. He joined at the age of 17 and went to basic the summer between his junior and senior years in high school because his parents told him he could join or move out. So before his initial enlistment ran out, he was married with a family to support. The military had him now. It wasn't just a job, it had become a career because of necessity.

As far as those in DC... there may be a few that care, but if they do, they are drowned out by rhetoric/politics. Like the ass who attached ANWR drilling to the spending bill for troops...Stevens, I believe. Most of these people had no problem voting to give these powers to * right after 9-11 because they were scared of their future political careers. I can understand because I remember the fear as well. I wasn't scared of the terrorists, I was scared of the patriotic jingoism and the blood lust I saw in nearly 90% of the country. The least they could do is admit they made a mistake, but they don't even do that. Only John Edwards has said his vote was a mistake and apologized. I admire him for that.

I definitely know there isn't a place for us, my family, in this polarized country. I'll be glad when my husband retires in just a few months, but I don't have much hope for where this country is going and I blame it on extremism and "the divider" in the White House. Sometimes when I read posts on this board, which I consider one of the last bastions of hope, I realize they have truly won.

[BrklynLiberal]

60. No one knows what you've been thru until they've walked in your shoes.

The old men in DC have no compunction sending the young men off to fight their wars. :(

Have you ever read about Smedley Butler and his incredible book "War is A Racket"?
Check it out-
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

More about Smedley Butler and how he saved the administration of FDR from a corporate coup
http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/030928warracket.htm

[peacebaby3]

64. No, I haven't read anything about Smedly Butler, but I will now. Thanks

for the info and links!

[genie_weenie]

55. US troops have always been viewed as

disposable faceless, soulless, mass producible pieces ala RISK.

Once a people(s) allow an external force to co opt their feelings of self and identity and transfer them to a large impersonal, immoral institution (The State) then troops become merely pawns in a global struggle for land and assets.

Troops are then to be used against whatever force comes into conflict with the State. Whether that be miners at Ludlow (1914), Whiskey makers in the Pennsylvania (1794), Indians anywhere on the Continent, or Iraqis...

So, to be blunt, it's not like a Dem is going to stop using US forces to impose will and domination over the peoples of the globe (including Americans).

So, support the troops be disbanding the US Government...

[Ksec]

59. Bush cares for them so much hes giving them wars to fight

Those lucky devils. If a repuke can use them, they like them. They dislike anyone not a useful tool to their wants and needs.