Graphic beyond most peoples' ability to bear, but definitely

[HysteryDiagnosis]

something that should be seen by those who can handle it, the direct results of the decision made by gwb three years ago are horrific to the nth degree.


http://www.chris-floyd.com/isahaqi/

[acmejack]

1. Awesome

Telling it like it is. The filth that is war, true pornography. The most damning indictment of George W. Bush I have yet seen.

[Fridays Child]

2. Thank you. K and R

[TomInTib]

3. This must get out (BBC has covered it), but, unfortunately,

This sort of thing is part and parcel in combat.

k&r

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Then combat should be outlawed. It is a criminal endeavor. n/t

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. well, yes

that is true.

[TomInTib]

7. It's funny, you know.

We wail about these incidents.

Yet when I posted the other night regarding my personal experience and involvement in this sort of thing (not including any gruesome details) in S E Asia, the thread was smoked in 1.3 seconds.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. someone's child, father, mother... I myself would

live to my dying breath getting some satisfaction for an incident that involved one of my loved ones... one that made the mistake of getting up one morning and starting the day.

[TomInTib]

12. Like when Macnamara asked Nugyen Vo Giap

how the N Vietnamese had persevered in the face of the horrific casualty rate.

Giap looked at him as though Macnamara had taken leave of his senses and said..

"It was our Country"

[TomInTib]

13. I intended to type Vo Nugyen Giap

My mind has become feeble.

[Catrina]

14. I read your post ~ I don't remember if I typed any words, but if I didn't

it was because reading or hearing from people who have actually been there makes it so much closer to those of us who haven't, sometimes it is difficult to find words ~ I don't know how you and others who went through such horror survived and I so much appreciate all you do now to try to bring some justice to this world.

So thank you for sharing your experiences ~ I am sure many others also read what you posted ~ just know that your words carry a lot of weight! I am certain I would be traumatized forever by such an experience. I wish no one ever had to go through this. :patriot:

[Blue Fire]

4. Breathtaking in it's real-life horror....

and heartbreaking that the source of this horror lives in our own White House.

[ourbluenation]

9. proud to give this the fifth kick....

my god - Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.

why did these people, and our soldiers, have to die?

Please don't tell me it was for oil...it's too cruel. Oil.

[Tom Joad]

10. No wonder there is growing resistance to this war within the ranks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1339631

The first army officer will go public with his refusal to participate in Bush's war on Iraq.

[DemoTex]

11. "Kindertotenlieder" by Mahler comes to mind. Or Bach's "Actus Tragicus."

Shakespeare's Macbeth should have warned Bu$h about the blood on his hands. Whatever. I am too sad to think rationally. We, as a nation, have fucked-up profoundly. No .. that is an understatement. We are dead as a nation. We have to start over. The question is: When?

I now have a Kathleen Ferrier (CD) on singing the Mahler Kindertotenlieder (Songs to Dead Children). It is almost unbearably, after seeing this Chris Floyd piece.

I'll close this with another gem from Cris Floyd:

Like Abu Ghraib, Haditha is not an aberration by a few "bad apples" but the emblem of a wider, systemic crime, the natural fruit of an outlaw regime that has made aggressive war, torture, indefinite detention, "extrajudicial killing," rendition and concentration camps official national policy. This moral rot is Bush's true historical legacy. (my emphasis)

Peace

[IndyOp]

15. Description of the photos - if you cannot bear to look at them...

Ishaqi - Abu Sifa - Children of Abraham - Death in the Desert

Here is a description of several of the photos:

We know from photographic evidence that the corpses of two men, four shrouded figures (women, according to the villagers), and five children - all of them apparently under the age of five, one as young as seven months, were pulled from the rubble of the house and laid out for burial beneath the bright, blank desert sky.

We know that the U.S.-backed Iraqi police said that an autopsy performed on the bodies found that "all the victims had gunshot wounds to the head." We know that the U.S.-backed Iraqi police said they found "spent American-issue cartridges in the rubble."

We know that two Iraqi police officials, Major Ali Ahmed and Colonel Farouq Hussein - both employed by the U.S.-backed Iraqi government - told Reuteres that the 11 occupants of the house, including the five children, had been bound and shot in the head before the house was blown up.

We know from the photographs that one child, the youngest, the baby, has a graping wound in his forehead. We can see that one other child, a girl with a pink ribbon in her hair, is lying on her side and has blood oozing from the back of her head. The faces of the other children are turned upwards toward the sun; if they were shot, they were shot in the back of the head and their wounds are not evident. But we can see that their bodies, though covered with dust from the rubble are otherwise whole; they were evidently not crushed in the collapse of the house. They died in some other fashion.

We know from the photographs that two of the children - two girls, still in their pajamas - are lying with their dead eyes open. We can see that the light and tenderness that animate the eyes of every young child have vanished; nothing remains but the brute start of nothingness into nothingness. We can see that the other three children have their eyes closed; two are limp, but the baby has one stiffened arm raised to his cheek, as if trying to ward off the blow that gashed and pulped his face so terribly.

=======================================

The problem is not Haditha.

The problem is not Abu Sifa.

The problem is not Abu Ghraib.

The problem is not Iraq.

The problem is not George W Bush.

THE PROBLEM IS ONGOING USE of the US Military for control of markets and resources.

Please honor the deaths of innocents at Abu Sifa and Haditha

[TriSec]

16. Link not working....

I wonder if it's been "removed"?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. Or blocked..... try again later.... and remember, big brother is

watching you. Have a nice day. :)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

18. Try this before it is blocked as well....

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:YyFrnCa2LvUJ:www.chris-floyd.com/isahaqi/+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

[Igel]

19. Have any witnesses come forward,

connecting the allegations in the police report and the video to the events? Or perhaps additional video that connects the events with the much-publicized video?

I haven't followed the Ishaqi business, but that's what's needed. The video shows people were killed; the police report says (in a strict sense) how they died. We know something happened involving US forces, and they killed some people; the question seems to be the actual events that occurred, and whether all the people died during that event by the hands of Americans. So far I can narrow it all down to a few different scenarios, only one involving a US-committed atrocity. And I haven't seen anybody suggest there was more info: just outrage at what boils down to a post hoc argument.

Now, it may be how the information's been presented: you assume everybody believes your statement, and you get sloppy with the presentation of evidence, and leave out details you assume are given. Or it may be a stunning asymmetry in the amount of good will/ill will we tender the two sides. Dunno. Can't tell.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

20. Think Abu Ghraib, think about how being stressed out beyond

belief makes one react, think about demonizing the "enemy", think about the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 911.

[Igel]

25. But your post didn't actually

deal with what I said.

Analogies don't prove truth, and claims don't count as facts. I'm not saying which side is lying; just that the DoD has not proven their case to my satisfaction, and the "Ishaqi was a US-sponsored massacre" side hasn't proven *their* case, either. With the Leopold/TruthOut ("Rove's indicted!") story, many have finally realized that there is a third option beside 'it's true' and 'it's false', and that is 'I dunno ... gimme facts.' Why I'm expected to run with the herd is, as is usually the case, a mystery. I've never been part of a herd, and don't intend to start being a ruminant now.

Corpses are corpses; a person can become a corpse in many different ways in Iraq, and there are no shortage of groups ready and willing to reduce people to corpses. Sometimes it's intentional, and political; sometimes it's intentional, and personal; sometimes it's 'accidental' (in the sense that too many or the wrong people were killed). Corpses don't always sprout toe-tags identifying which cause they resulted from.

There's also no surplus of naivete on the part of either side: events can be spun and manipulated to serve either side's goals. The US has been demonized quite well, as have the insurgents. This doesn't help one bit in deciding a priori what happened in Ishaqi. If anything, it tells us *not* to play Grand Inquisitor with the Iraqis.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

26. I've seen young troops shoot a wounded Iraqi on the ground, and

no, I'm not talking about long distance from a helicopter with a 30mm cannon that made the unfortunate "disappear". I'm talking about young men who don't know any better shooting a wounded man on the ground at close range. Say what you will, war is hell, it is wrong, and especially in this frigging case it is wrong to the nth degree. May gawd forgive us whe she has time.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

29. Nothing to see here.... move along... these aren't the droids you

are looking for.... welcome to DU btw :)

[Tsiyu]

21. K & R

I wish their souls would haunt GWB every second of his existence.

He "brought it on." He got up there all manly and strutted like a rooster and dangled his nuts around as if he himself were Mister Combat Ready.

Then he sent a bunch of kids to kill for him, with no mercy, for fucking power and profit.

Power and Profit.

Power and Profit.

The Gods of our age.















But hey, * is gonna keep those gays from marrying.....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

22. A true prophet, (there were millions) would have told him no george

you can't do that, would he listen to anyone at all.

[Xenotime]

23. It's shocking to see the horror we have brought to that country.

That's worse than any horror movie hollywood could create.

[Bouncy Ball]

24. K&R

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. LOL.

No idea what that was about!

[upi402]

30. K&R but I couldn't watch it long

I fucking HATE all Republicans.
I hope there IS a hell...

[HysteryDiagnosis]

31. We're killing them over there cuz we can..... n/t.

[upi402]

32. killing for dollars

the mafia were boyscouts

[HysteryDiagnosis]

34. The mafia had a code. They lived and died by it. I don't know wtf

sort of code is being used in Iraq..... money for nothing and your kicks for free???