not even TRYING to impeach bush is the same as admitting defeat

[mopaul]

most folks agree, trying to impeach bush like they did to clinton is a waste of time, and it just makes us all look like we want revenge, and we'd be sinking to their level if we even considered it, and why bother?

to me, this is surrender to the warpigs. look how they attacked clinton and look how we totally ignore bush' high crimes and multiple acts of treason, pitiful.

if at the end of the day all we can say is, impeachment is an impossible dream, then we are beaten and we may as well surrender en masse to the real terrorists, the u.s. government. if bush gets through his whole term without impeachment papers being drawn up, then he has bested us, and we have surrendered and admitted defeat to tyranny, and history will look upon us with the same shame that was heaped on the people of 1930's germany.

we will be seen as the nation that failed to do it's duty.

[Tesla]

1. There are SOOOO many petitions going now, SIGN UP!!!

Conyers, World Can't Wait, Democrats.com, Louise Slaughter, Wes Clark......on and on and on...
Sign your names!!!
It's our Freedom at risk!

[bowens43]

2. It useless to try while Republicans control the House.

To try to force impeachment when it's IMPOSSIBLE will make us look ridiculous. Instead of all of this useless talk of impeachment, Democrats should be working to regain control of Congress. That is the only way that impeachment will ever get a hearing on the floor of the house. All the petitions and rhetoric in the world will not change that. The reality of the situation that there will be no impeachment unless we regain control of congress. It is important to know which battles can and cannot be won and to not resources on those we cannot win.

[sellitman]

3. We should be doing both.

There is no reason we can't push impeachment WHILE getting our ducks in order for 2006. Why must they be exclusive of one another? They SHOULD compliment one another. We should be the party of convictions and TRUTH and the truth is * should be impeached!!!!!

[lonestarnot]

6. And to you I say bullshit!

[tuvor]

8. Why do people keep saying that?

Find a wedge big enough to drive between the bush admin and the people who have to answer directly to their constituents. (I didn't say no work would be involved, but the wedges are out there. Privacy issues, for one.)

They don't care about bush's ass, they care about their own.

[AllegroRondo]

17. Exactly!

force those Republican Reps to go on record as having voted against impeachment. I'm sure their constituents would really like that.

[onenote]

19. and without a majority how do "force" a vote?

This has been addressed over and over. Until the Democrats control the House, we can't "force" a damn thing. You might take note of the fact that a resolution seeking impeachment of Donald Rumsfeld was introduced last Congress and Conyers has introduced his impeachment resolution this year. They, like a zillion other resolutions and bills, get referred to a committee where they disappear from view, never to be acted upon or even made the subject of a hearing. And there is not a damn thing we can do about it until we control the House. Sure, Democrats can stand up and "demand" a hearing or a vote every day, but do you really think that tilting at windmills will make us look stronger or weaker? The media will either lose interest after a week or, worse, will depict the Democrats as more obsessed about impeachment than they are about legislation that would actually help the American people (and which the repubs will have a harder time ignoring in an election year, like minimum wage legislation).

onenote

[stepnw1f]

12. Actually We Dems SHould Hound Even Reps

by mailing, emailing, and calling them via phone. Thanks for the idea!

[yodermon]

21. Oh for the love of..

Good Gawd. You people. "It will make us look ridiculous". To whom? the Right wing? The ones who impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob?? Why do you care what they think, as they have been working at our political annihilation for 30+ years, and are craven hypocrites?

If public opinion on impeachment (and it hasn't even been polled yet!! They started polling on Clinton as soon as he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" if not before) reaches high enough levels, then it will become THE DE FACTO ISSUE OF 2006 with or without the Democrats. Do you understand?

Imagine if Rove is indicted.
Imagine if Cheney &/or shrub are named co-conspirators.
Imagine if the remaining Abu Ghraib pix/vids are released.
Imagine if Abramoff turns state's evidence on all the congresspeople he's bribed.

The scandals are coming fast & furious, in case you haven't noticed, and public outrage IS growing. If we can make the shrub so much political kryptonite in 2006, then the House repukes (the ones not indicted per Abramoff, heh heh) will HAVE to make a stand on his fitness to remain potus.

You're trying to construe Impeachment and the 2006 Elections as mutually exclusive, when in fact they are of a piece. It should be the Democrat's bread and butter issue going forward. Force the repukes to DUMP chimpy to save their own political skin. Hell, Santorum is already distancing himself.

You defeatists are really starting to grate on my nerves.

[boobooday]

4. Impeachment is long overdue

We need to re-establish the meaning of the word, and what it is meant to do.

There was never a better case for impeachment than the case against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney (they must both be impeached).

The GOP made impeachment a petty act of political sabotage, rather than the safeguard for democracy that it was meant to be. We need it. NOW.

[lonestarnot]

5. It is EVERY American's duty to impeach this slipshod half baked freak of

a wannabe dictator.

[mwb970]

7. If Bush remains in office the terrorists have won. (n/t)

[tlsmith1963]

23. True

The terrorists must *love* what Bush is doing. He is changing America to a dictatorship. Imagine how much that must be feeding their egos. It's disgusting.

Tammy

[DistressedAmerican]

9. I Am For Waiting Until After The 2006 Elections.

It may be far more possible then. However, if we are still not controlling congress after that, we need to push it anyway.

[tavalon]

26. Let's take a page out of the Rethug playbook

and get the relentless drumbeat started now.

[Nordmadr]

10. This reminds me of a conversation I had with

the father of one of my best friends (moderately wealthy, Republican, company V.P.) and his friend who was visiting from England while we kicked back a few beers. My opinion was in the minority. As I went thorugh the litany of problems I had with this Administration and what I thought was wrong with this Country, they repetively questioned why I hated this Nation so much. They could not get it through their heads that I was so upset and impassioned about it because I LOVE this Country. I love the idea of what this Nation can and should be.

Olafr

[petgoat]

27. Some people seem to be of this viewpoint:

America has been so good to you and to me (and the people in our
privileged club), how could we possibly want to change anything?

Somehow those outside the club don't count. Seems like an attitude
that must go back to second grade.

[Silverhair]

11. Do you enjoy butting your head against a brick wall?

You certainly don't do any damage to the wall. Spending political capital on an effort that is certain to fail weakens our ability to fight other battles.

After the 2006 elections, we might be able, (assuming we win a majority and that is iffy) to get a bil of impeachment throught the House, but it will still fail in the Senate.

And as you have said, to the general public it will simply look like revenge.

[stepnw1f]

13. That Wall is Crumbling

You can watch if you want.

[Silverhair]

16. Check back with me on Jan 20, 2009 NT

[stepnw1f]

20. It Will Be the Very First Thing I Do

oh brother

[mopaul]

14. yes, cause it feels good when i stop

it would be no trouble at all for someone to put forward articles of impeachment, just because, like bob barr did the day clinton took office, it was a blank document just waiting for a reason to be, and it worked.

i realize it would not work, and that's not the point, just doing it, walking in with the articles and presenting them officially would at least show that we did our constitutional duty, as we are instructed to do from beyond the grave by the founders. at least for their sake if not for ours.

and just try for a brief moment to imagine that if enough people screamed and raised hell about it, it could actually happen. remember for four years no one could even say the word, now it's everywhere.

[dpbrown]

15. Got that right!

The guy's a sociopath who's broken the law, his oath of office to uphold the Constitution, and most if not all bounds of common sense and decency.

To not even try to impeach him is pathetic.

[mtnsnake]

18. If we don't try impeachment in 2007, then we ARE defeated

If we win back the House in 2006, then it's a no-brainer. We impeach. If we win back the House in 2006 and we don't impeach, then I'd be shocked, disappointed, and I'd never forgive the party.

If we don't win back the House, we TRY to impeach.

Win or lose, Bush cannot get away scot free. He's a fucking criminal for crise sakes. If he wasn't the president, he'd be in jail right now.

[tlsmith1963]

22. Bush's Crimes are Much Worse Than Clinton's

So this *has* to be done. I don't care what anyone thinks. This must be done to save the country. If they want to be weak & live in a screwed up country, then that's their problem. I don't have time for them. None of us do. So try to impeach him, anyway.

Tammy

[Tesla]

24. We the People are all we have......

There is a whole lot more of us than them!!!!

Even Rome fell!!!

[Kablooie]

25. If no one pushes for impeachment we are agreeing that Bush is right.

That the president is above the law and that we don't accept the checks and balances that the constitution gave us.

Hell, the 1776 crowd looked ridiculous when they decided to take the mighty British Empire.

If the country dissolves into fascism, who will look silly then?

[petgoat]

28. I don't know if the "Don't Impeach" camp has an alternate

suggestion for action or if they're really a "Do Nothing" camp.

I'll suggest while we're waiting to achieve a majority in the House and
Senate, let's shout out:



http://www.worldcantwait.net/