Ohio Mayor Refers To African-American Fire Chief As “King Kong”

[CatWoman]

what the hell is up with Ohio???

From a Toledo Blade editorial:

"Some things you just don’t say. And anyone who has been around as long as Mayor Carty Finkbeiner ought to know better than to call an African-American “King Kong.” It’s hard to believe, but that’s how the mayor referred to Toledo Fire Chief Michael Bell at a staff meeting last week.

Not surprisingly, Mayor Finkbeiner denies that he intended to offend anyone, and on that point, he’s probably sincere. Who among us hasn’t spoken before thinking and instantly wished we could have the comment back?

But the mayor has been a public servant for decades, including two previous terms as mayor, and he has enjoyed substantial support in the black community along the way.

How could he not know how deeply insulting it always is to blacks to hear themselves referred to, even via a fictional character, as an ape? The mayor’s office says the reference was to the fire chief’s physical strength. So why not a less troublesome comparison, to say, Samson, or Hercules? Or better yet, just talk about the chief’s strength in the abstract. No need to give it a name.

Why the mayor would use such a reference to compliment Chief Bell is incomprehensible. Even as a bad joke, it doesn’t work."


http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060531/OPINION02/60531030

[LiberalVoice]

1. If it wasnt a rascist comment...

people shouldn't treat it as such. Sounds like the guy was complimenting rather then insulting.

[CatWoman]

3. I assure you, LV

that if someone said that about me, I would be anything BUT flattered.

I don't care what the context was.

[BlooInBloo]

5. I'm with ya! He SAID it wasn't racist - that should be the end of it!

Damn oversensitive negroes - always CRYING racism.

:sarcasm:

Sure is nice to be white, eh? No matter what side of the aisle you're on, racists and racist remarks will ALWAYS be defended.

It's like the Skull & Bones club, only bigger. A LOT bigger.

[LiberalVoice]

24. Did I defend a rascist remark?

If someone calls you King Kong because you're muscular and you decide to be offended because you think its rascist thats your problem. IF the comment was not made to be rascist then i dont see the problem. IF the man he called King Kong chooses to be offended thats not the other guys fault. If the mayor is lying and did mean it to be rascist then thats another story.

And I sure hope you're not assuming i'm white(which im not) and that because of it I am at an advantage(which im not). Once again another DUer spouts off at the mouth without using their brain :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

54. Ignoring your wild-eyed, self-serving, and false assumptions/suggestions..

... the basic fact of the matter is that King Kong was, FROM ITS VERY GENESIS a racist concept.

You're free to spin out of thin air all of the non-racist rationalization for it you like. None of them reflect reality.

I linked to a fine discussion of it somewhere in this thread. There are many others like it. Just about the only people who disagree with discussion like that to which I linked are stormfr*nt people.

The intrinsic racist nature of King Kong is a matter of settled unambiguous and unargued fact. Whether or not you and a lot of DUers know this is, of course a quite separate matter.

[sandnsea]

8. That's the subtlety of racism

I'm sure he didn't mean it as an insult, but that's the underlying pervasiveness of racism. It's there, and comes out in various ways when we don't even recognize it's what we're doing. I remember when I was trying to remember the location of a Indian Health organization and I turned to a Native American; as if she was the only person in the room who might know where the office was. Anybody could have known and it was racist of me to assume she would, for all I know she had health insurance through her job and never had need of Indian Health. It's the subtle assumptions that persist, and that's how these sort of "King Kong" comments get made. That's how all those African-Americans got left behind in New Orleans, all the subtle assumptions that people use to dismiss what's happening right in front of their face.

[BlooInBloo]

15. They NEVER mean it....

Sweartagod - white folks must be the stupidest people on the planet - they keep *accidentally* making the SAME mistake 1000s upon 1000s of times, and they NEVER mean it....

wow. And white folks think *black* folks are stupid...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:sarcasm:

EDIT: Sarcasm aside, it's NOT subtle. http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC06folder/KingKong.html

[AspenRose]

16. BIB I enjoy your posts.

Especially enjoyed your posts during that Tony Snow 'tar baby' crap. :yourock:

[BlooInBloo]

17. WOOHOO!!! Someone likes my posts!

Thanks!

Can't really take any credit for the Snow stuff of course - that's really just shooting jackassess in a barrel....

[CatWoman]

18. ha-rumph!!!!

you never acted like that when "I" said I liked your posts!!!!

*grumble, grumble*

:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

20. (blush) (a) It goes without saying that you're MVP to me....

... Most Valuable Poster...

and (b) I was worried you didn't like me no mo after we disagreed a lil while back... :(

I'm outtie - gotta go get drunk and watch detroit lose & go home! woot!

[CatWoman]

55. Bloo - once you know me, you'll understand

I really don't have time for grudges.

I disagree with people all the time - no big deal.

I only get pissed when people fuck with me.

:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

56. woot! That more than makes up for miami being pw3d last night!

:)

[sandnsea]

19. I am a white folk

And when I said that very stupid thing, I didn't mean it. I didn't even realize what I was doing and have no idea how many times I had done that before. As I realized it as it was happening, I immediately apologized and the girl in question was very gracious about it and we had a good joke about it being "very white of me". So perhaps white folks are the stupidest people on the planet, but we truly don't always mean to be racist when we are.

And, black folks aren't the only ones who know what government cheese is, or who have ever put water in a ketchup bottle either. But to listen to DL Hughley, one might think white folks have never been poor either. So stupid shit works both ways. And I love DL Hughley, so don't even try to misinterpret that.

[LiberalVoice]

26. Way to generalise.

Now there is no difference between the people who do mean and the people who dont. Congratulations.

Who the fuck is they?

[LiberalVoice]

25. Thats ridiculous.

If he called him King Kong because he's a muscular guy how can that be misconstrued to be rascist. Its the people that ASSUME he made it in reference to a black man looking like an Ape. If he did then he is a rascist but you cant just make up that he did.

[sandnsea]

28. Riiight

Because white people neeevver refer to black folks as monkeys, coons, jungle bunny, gorilla lips...

Like I said, I don't think it was a conscious slur, but the language that permeates a culture occasionally comes out in peculiar ways. Like this mayor using King Kong instead of, say, Rocky or Hercules.

I really don't know why white people find the need to pretend they've never heard a racial slur in their lives, it's really quite silly. Psst... the black people aren't fooled.

[LiberalVoice]

29. Stop lecturing me like you know me.

Because you certainly dont. Your whole position rests on assumptions and accusations.

The article points out that the mayor has had a longstanding relationship with the black community in the years he has been mayor. So nothing about your accusations makes sense. One poor analogy and now he's a rascist.

Me thinks you dont like what what was said because a white man said it. And whos the rascist then? :wow:

[sandnsea]

31. "The subtlety of racism"

I didn't say the man was a racist, I said I didn't believe he meant any harm when he made his comment, but that racial comments are so common in this world that it can be part of people's subconscience without them even realizing. That's what I said and it doesn't surprise me at all that he's had a good relationship with the black community, it wouldn't be the first time somebody has unintentionally made an insensitive comment.

Of course I don't like that a white man said it, I wouldn't like it if a black mayor called a white police chief Custer or something either. I really don't know where you get the idea that pointing out racism or racial overtones makes one a racist, it's very strange I have to say.

[LiberalVoice]

32. Calling someone king kong is not rascist.

Unless it is MEANT to be used as such. You cant just pick when a word is rascist or not. You have to look in what context it was used.

[sandnsea]

33. Looking at context is picking

Context is the basis you use to "pick" whether a word is racist or not. Calling a black man King Kong, unless that's a nickname he gave himself, is either intentionally racist or racially insensitive. It's odd that you're arguing this with me, because the black people on this thread don't seem confused about it at all.

[LiberalVoice]

34. First of all...

Just because someone is black doesn't mean that they have a better grasp on the subject of rascism. Secondly, I'm arguing this with you because you're calling a man rascist when you have no evidence to suggest it.

Say two friends are wrestling with eachother, one is black the other is white. The one says to the other "Damn you're like King Kong!" because he easily beats him. Does that mean he is being racist or racially insensitive? Just calling a black person King Kong isn't racist. And how YOU choose to interpret it is out of anyones control.

The difference between you and I is that you call him a racist while I have reserved my opinion until there is evidence to lean me one way or the other. Thats the point im trying to make.

[sandnsea]

35. Am I all alone in this thread??

I really don't know why you're picking on me, as opposed to anybody else in this thread. Well I do, but we'll let that slide...

And for about the 5th time, I didn't call the mayor a racist.

[LiberalVoice]

37. Im not picking on you.

You replied to my initial post and I thought we were debating the subject.

Ooook, you're saying the comment is racist. And from the article there is no evidence to support your claim.

[sandnsea]

40. Yeah, I'm the only one who responded

That's why you're only responding to me, ookaaay indeed. And I don't think it's because you're picking on me either, btw.

Do you filter out your entire life experiences when you make opinions on things other than race??

[LiberalVoice]

41. Wow

not making assumptions = filtering out your entire life experiences

Spin worthy of Fox news.

[sandnsea]

46. "from the article"

You're the one who said you were only using the article, that's why I asked if you always filter out all your life experiences to make an opinion.

[LiberalVoice]

53. My life experiences...

have taught me not to jump to conclusions. That in the end it does more harm then good. You may be right on this one, and the next, and the next, but eventually you will have pegged an innocent person as being something they're not.

[brindis_desala]

57. You are one of the few who have taken the time to analyze

the insidious nature of racist bigotry. What surprises me is not that such slips as the one this mayor made are so frequent but that we should be surprised when the entire culture is infected by the dehumanizing stereotypes that for centuries served the needs of the capitalist's wealth accumulation. History loves nothing more than irony. So just as scholars will scoff at the notion of claiming to spread freedom with bombs and bullets so one looks back on the age of purported enlightenment that saw the degradation of two thirds of humanity for the profit of the emerging "white" bourgeoisie.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. oops.

[patdem]

4. It is up to Chief Bell as far as I am concerned...if he has no problem

then there is NO PROBLEM!

[Renew Deal]

6. Is it a bad to call a powerful white guy King Kong?

I don't think so.

[manic expression]

7. Is there a long history of associating black people with primates?

I do think so.

[BlooInBloo]

10. ROFLMAO!!!

[Yollam]

58. You mean *lower* primates...

...human beings are primates, too.

[CatWoman]

13. is it good to call a powerful white guy Turd Blossom?

apples and oranges.

let's call them names, too.

Hereforth, apples will be deemed "candyass", and oranges will be called "cum zest"

[stepnw1f]

23. LOL (nt)

[malaise]

9. We all came from apes

No biggie.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Hm. The evolution I learned said that we were COUSINS to apes...

... and NOT descended from them...

It's been awhile tho - possibly I'm misremembering....

[malaise]

21. Cousins are close relatives

Let me put it this way - I'd rather be called King Kong than 'Chimperer the Decider'.

[LiberalVoice]

38. lol

:)

[redqueen]

12. Geeeeeeez...

:wtf:

[sendero]

14. I don't know about all of Ohio..

... but I agree 100% with what this columnist wrote.

[stepnw1f]

22. WTF!?

Nah... couldn't be racism... he's just a BIG guy,,, ya know? :eyes:

[MrSlayer]

27. This shit never ends does it?

Even if he meant it in the best possible way (whatever that would be) it is still wildly inappropriate and insulting. Talk about stupid.

[meow2u3]

30. The racists are coming out of the woodwork

like the cockroaches they are.

[NorthernSpy]

36. Ethics panel to look into mayor's role in Toledo Public Schools case

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060526/NEWS16/605260362

The Ohio Ethics Commission will investigate whether Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner's failed effort to boost the compensation for and retain former Toledo Public Schools Superintendent Eugene Sanders violated state law.

David Freel, the commission's executive director, said yesterday that Mr. Finkbeiner has indicated he will be fully cooperative in the investigation. Mr. Finkbeiner declined comment yesterday.

The mayor acknowledged earlier this month in a letter to the commission that he led a group of "community leaders" who were trying to put together a compensation package that would have offset the extra $80,000 a year Mr. Finkbeiner said was being offered by Cleveland Public Schools to hire Mr. Sanders.

The mayor said he was un-aware at the time that Ohio law prohibits supplementing the salary of a public official. At issue is Ohio Revised Code 2921.43, which prohibits a public servant from soliciting, and a citizen from promising or giving, anything of value to "supplement … the public servant's public compensation."

Violation of the law is a misdemeanor of the first degree and would bar anyone convicted of it from holding public office for seven years.

Finkbeiner didn't know that it's insulting to compare blacks to lower primates. Finkbeiner didn't know that it's against the law to sweeten the pot for a public official -- an act that treads the edge of bribery. Poor Finkbeiner! Everybody's picking on him.

Or maybe Finkbeiner is just a rude, deceitful, corrupt politician who the people would be better off without.

[Rex]

39. Good point about using other examples

Ida used Mark Henry...ANYTHING but King Fucking Kong! Sheesh! Evidently the mayor doesn't know the history of the original King Kong.

[depakid]

42. ...what the hell is up with Ohio?

There must be something in the water.

That's all I come up with to explain all the bizarre goings on in that state.

[johnnie]

45. Yeah

We are all fucking whacked out here in Ohio. It's probably best if no one comes here.

[treestar]

43. Sorry, that is a name he could call a white guy

If the guy is big and he likes him, it could be perfectly OK.

Not everything is meant as a racial put down. Some people are so ready to play the victim they practically look for a way to be one.

Many blacks do not do this. But some do, and some white people trying to make political hay use it too.

[Karmakaze]

60. "Many blacks do not do this."

Which blacks would those be? The good ones? The ones that know their place?

"Not everything is meant as a racial put down."

Of course not - I mean when a white manager hires the white guy over the more qualified black guy, it has nothing to do with racism, the manager just likes the white guy more - no offence meant! Of course should the black guy kick up a stink about it, its only because he is looking for a way to become the victim!

The point is, as long as white people don't MEAN to offend, then no one should ever complain about their racist comments or actions, and when people do, they are obviously just looking to play the victim!

See, it's NOT racism if white people don't MEAN it!

[bleedingheart]

44. I am glad people speak before they think...because

you can really tell a lot about the character of the individual.

[pointblank]

47. The guy says he didn't mean to offend anyone

He's a long time public servant with support from the black community and he slips up once...I say give him the benefit of the doubt and move on. There is such a thing as oversensitivity and this is one example of that.

Besides, who can say for sure that if this mayor had referred to him as hercules that the chief wouldnt be offended because hercules was, by all graphic depictions I have seen, a white guy? ...I mean why couldnt he have referred to him as being like Mr T or some other well known strong BLACK figure?

See what I mean, where does this shit end?

[Blue Diadem]

48. Dh told me about it this morning..all I could say was OMG

Apparently the citizens of Toledo didn't learn from Carty's previous terms as Mayor. I still don't understand why he was elected again.

[KingFlorez]

49. Completely inappropriate

Why do people insist on saying things like this?

[Catherine Vincent]

50. They're idiots and just don't think before they speak.

[Lance_Boyle]

51. Why not 'Samson' or 'Hercules?'

Because neither of those stories has been recently remade (*horribly*, I might add) by Hollywood. Fairly recently one couldn't view 30 minutes of television without an ad for the (*awful*) King Kong remake. A few years ago, it might've been "The Incredible Hulk" on the tip of the mayor's tongue. If offense was taken but not intended, then the mayor ought to be able to personally apologize to the man he offended and move on.

[opihimoimoi]

52. What were the circumstances? The delivery? Was the Mayor smiling

and laughing when he said it? How did the FC take it? etc etc

small but pertinent...

[B Calm]

59. Sounds as though the Toledo Blade editorial is the racist!