"there is no such thing as too much retaliation."

[zippy890]

This was the reponse to a reporter about the killings of civilians by marines in Haditha, by a former marine from Camp Pendleton California.

"If I saw my buddy laying there dead, there is no such thing as too much retaliation."

On a Marine Base, Disbelief Over Charges
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30voices.html


As I read this statement, the full impact hit me.
This is why, after the 9/11 attacks, in many people's minds
it was ok to attack Iraq. Never too much retaliation.

Can our better instincts as a people be brought to bear? This is so crucial
to our direction as a country, as a people, if we are to survive together in this
nation and in this world.

Yes, there is such a thing as too much retaliation and it is heinous, and must be
prosecuted. The Marines in Haditha. Our government's leaders that authorized this war
must also be prosecuted.

[Philosoraptor]

1. Basically they're just being shot at and then they retaliate.

This is a war?

[zippy890]

2. 20 year olds are trained to kill

sent over there, thats what they are going to do. They are trained to attack.
Haditha was bound to happen, and probably has many times over.

Retaliation in a broader sense is what was used by our government
to go to war in Iraq.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Even if it's retaliation against innocent civilians?

Wow. That is just stunning.

I think you are right in your assessment of the Iraq invasion support. Due to the deliberately cultivated ignorance and xenophobia of the general U.S. population, the people in the Middle East are one and the same to them, regardless of their country of origin. Even if they are not actually from there but look like they might be. Remember the Sikh Indian immigrant who was gunned down in Arizona shortly after the WTC attacks? Guess that would be okay to our Marine friend too. If someone kills an American, just destroy the first available brown person to make it even.

[Philosoraptor]

4. The president has simplified it for us by simply calling them, "the enemy"

Us, versus the enemy.

[drm604]

6. And by constantly conflating Iraq with the "war on terror". n/t

[acmavm]

5. And this is why they will always despise us. Because they see us

as the uncivilized barbarian bastards with a 250+ year history as opposed to theirs, which is measured in the thousands of years.

[regnaD kciN]

7. The thing is, al-Qaeda would agree...

:eyes:

[godai]

8. It's not really a war, it's an occupation

And it goes on and on and on. * and rove may think this is good, so that they can use this politically to keep saying: we're at war, I'm a war president. It got him 're-elected' in 2004 and it keeps his dismal ratings as high as they are.

At the start of the Indy 500, stupid Brent Musberger found it necessary to remind everyone not to forget that we are at war. Not sure what this had to do with a car race except that I understand that * and rove want it this way.

For the soldiers, it is a never ending frustration where they might be killed at any time. They are trained for war, where battles are fought and won but the insurgency doesn't work that way. This leads to the war crimes at Haditha and, I believe, many other places. Retaliation in a war (against enemy soldiers) is appropriate. Retaliation against civilians is never justified. In addition, of course there is such a thing as too much retaliation, even in a real war. The entire Iraq fiasco represents too much retaliation. It's essentially a war crime against the entire country.

Even worse is the prospect of thousands of soldiers returning to the mainstream with horrible memories that won't go away. PTSD will probably be worse than after Vietnam, with insufficient health care support

For *, there's no way out. He can't bring himself to admit this colossal mistake but there's little to no chance of this ending soon or in a good way for him. I think civil war is inevitable, with Iraq divided into 3 areas, with winners and losers. That will be the real war.

I also watched a discussion yesterday (CNN, I think), of the dilemma for * to be seen in a 'honor the soldiers' situation at Arlington Cemetary, which he must do, vs * never going to a funeral for a soldier killed in Iraq, since that aspect needs to be kept from view as much as possible. What a pathetic and cowardly man. How can he sleep nights? I know, with Ambien and Jack Daniels.

I'm hoping things begin to change in November.

[LaurenG]

9. We are a nation of fools, led by fools

No everyone of course because there are still those who think while having strong emotions and harm no one.

If we can't understand that retaliation is a crock we will have the world equivalent of the "Hatfield's and McCoys" for ages. :cry:

[ET Awful]

10. Odd, don't members of al qaeda say the same thing to justify

their attacks on the US?

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Where do you end up if both sides feel that way?

Then you just have an endless cycle in which everyone ends up dead. Did that former Marine ever stop to wonder if the soldiers were themselves killed for retaliation? What about retaliation for the civilian killings, does he think there's no such thing as too much in that case? Maybe he thinks retaliation is a right reserved strictly unto Americans, and everybody else in the world just has to sit back and take it. Someone needs to tell him that the rest of the world doesn't see it that way, and that retaliation is a two way street.

[Arkansas Granny]

12. You wind up in a situation like Israel and Palestine.

[gratuitous]

13. Yep

Our national faith is not Christianity; it's redemptive violence. If our society takes anything on faith, it's that the answer to violence is more violence. Attacked on September 11? Looks like we're gonna need a whole lotta violence to solve this crime. Invade Afghanistan! Invade Iraq!

And when the inevitable backlash comes our popular culture wails, "Why, oh why do they hate us?" Our faith in redemptive violence is so complete, that we forget the death squads we sponsored, the arms we sold all over the planet, and the other atrocities that flow from our culture of redemptive violence. Most of the folks we oppress have no more power than to gather in crowds and shout "Death to America." But some have a little more oomph.

[sendero]

14. Retaliation..

... against the perpetrators is one thing, "retailation" against whoeever happens to be in the area is another.

I hope someone "retaliates" against this moron for something he had nothing to do with.