Think winning the House and Senate will end BushCo? WRONG!!!!

[originalpckelly]

I bet most people in America have no clue how Hitler REALLY came to power. Most people probably think Hitler was widely popular, but that is a complete lie. The Enabling Act was passed by the Reichstag and Reichstrat, with a coalition of Nazi and other parties, whom wanted to remove instability from the Weimar Republic.

THIS IS WHY DEMOCRATS WHO PLAY ALONG WITH BUSHCO MUST BE THROWN OUT!!!!

Don't forget who had the majority in the Senate when our country approved the Iraq war or the "Patriot Act."

We won't be out of the woods, even if we win both houses. Don't let your guard down.

The truth is that Democrats in Congress are mostly corrupt. The only people in this country whom can save are our base, you and I and all other Democrats not in power. We must work together because if we don't our nation WILL BE DESTROYED.

I know I sound melodramatic, but I want to warn everyone on this forum of the shaky nature our nation's government is in.

We do not have checks and balances. Our Congress is corrupt. Our President (while a bumbling idiot) is surrounded by evil people, attempting to accumulate power in the Executive.

The most dangerous part of our current problem does not lie inside the government per se it is the American people.

Congress is corrupt and because of that, the FBI was allowed to do a search in a Congressional office, and the American people just let it blow by because we don't trust Congress.

Most people probably think members of Congress want special privileges, you're right they do, but they SHOULD have them.

Right before our nation revolted and formed a more perfect Confederation (as in Articles of), the British parliament was bullied by the King of England. They were thrown in jail in order to keep them from voting on legislation.

Not only that, but the Roman Republic fell because the people of Rome distrusted the Senate and let Julius Caesar take absolute power. The Senate did have corruption, but on whole it was much better than the brutal "dictators" who would follow Caesar. The worst were Caligula and Nero.

We are on a path of decline. If we don't do anything today and/or in the next few months, our nation will be gone for good.

This isn't some abstract thing. Right now, you can go about your lives and quite frankly not much has changed, but I think that is how nations fall into this trap. The horrible things that are happening don't directly affect us, so we don't think it is a serious problem.

Letting the FBI search a Congressman's office doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it definitely is: one day if we do take back Congress and start investigations into the President's activities, we will be troubled by the fact the FBI searched the offices of Congress in a "corruption scandal" (I don't mean to imply there isn't one now, but we could be tricked in the future,) so that the President can find out how much evidence Congress has on him.

We know that Richard Nixon tricked the FBI during the late '60s and early '70s, so it is not a wild thing to suppose.

I think the first thing we can do is to take a firm stance with the party leaders when it comes to vital civil liberties. No more playing along with the Republicans. We must take a strong stand.

It isn't that I want to create even more inter-party hostility, but we have to be strong when it comes to playing by the rules of the game. We have to remember the lessons of Hitler, the Nazis, and Germany, giving power to a single person, or allowing any other degradation of our government will not save us. It may be what the other side wants us to feel.

The most important excerpt from Wikipedia on the Enabling Act:
"The Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Communist Party (KPD) were expected to vote against such an Act, but the Nazis knew that the parties representing the middle class, the Junker landowners and business interests had grown weary of the instability of the Weimar Republic."

Here is the whole article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act

[Terran1212]

1. I think democracy itself must be retaken!

Politicians who aren't in the pocket of big business; elections that MATTER to the majority of citizens who are engaged in politics and democracy.

Don't let our government answer to the dollar so much as us!

[sarahlee]

33. Two Diaries at Kos that you might find interesting

In looking at how the William Jefferson bribery scandal is related to Halliburton-Dick Cheney shenanigans involving millions of dollars in bribes to Nigerian government officials (and god knows who else), I realize the whole thing might sound outlandish. So as you read on, know that my facts/quotes come from a variety of sources:

And

Robert Kagan is the co-founder with William Kristol of the Project for the New American Century and he thinks it will be better for America if the Democrats win the 2008 contest for the Presidency. If that surprises you, you haven't been paying attention. As far as the PNAC crew goes, power isn't about being a Republican or a Democrat, it's about owning both parties. And, fortunately for us, Kagan is spectacularly upfront about this. To understand his mindset it's important to understand that he doesn't divide the world up into left and right, but into interventionist and isolationist. Kagan has representatives in the Democratic Party. They can loosely be described as the members of the Democratic Leadership Council and the writers at The New Republic.

These opinion leaders consider America to be the 'indispensable nation' and they consider it vital to world peace and security that America maintain its role in the world. For example, it's critical that we maintain military bases from Okinawa, to Tashkent, to Kandahar, to Baku, to Turkey, Baghdad, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Dubai, to Eritrea. From the outside, it looks like they benefit from their association or investments in the companies that do business in those countries, or the companies that arm our military to defend themselves in foreign lands and equip our home defenses to protect against the resentment our occupations cause. But, from the inside, it's more complicated. It's about the evils of communism, or fascism, or Islamo-fascism, or whatever is required as a rhetorical tool next week.

Kagan is part of a literal cabal of people in Washington (in Congress, in thinktanks, in this case, the Washington Post's editorial pages) that assure that any new administration's 'options' are limited and that their approach will not be stunningly different from Bush's. These are the folks that brought you the stalemated Korean War and the need for permanent bases in the south, the disastrous Vietnam War, the Committee on the Present Danger, and Team B. They employ journalists like Judith Miller to write about anthrax, and journalists like Peter Beinert to advocate a tougher foreign policy line from Democrats. They love and contibute to politicians like Joe Lieberman, Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, and Jane Harman. As long as they can control the debate, assure a centrist nominee from the Democrats, and keep the level of fear in the public high, their racket is safe, even if the people in the World Trade Center were not.

Some may see this as a typical leftist critique. But it's more than that. This is how Washington works, how power wields itself, how the Democrats are co-opted, and how we keep repeating our mistakes by involving ourselves in costly foreign entanglements.

Perhaps the most flamboyant and successful of their campaigns was the one they used to convince us that we defeated the Soviet Union through military spending. It had nothing to do with the superior example our society made to the world through our civil liberties, personal freedoms, prosperity, and human rights advocacy. Nor did it have anything to do with the Soviets poor example and lack of these things. No, no. We brought the Soviets to their knees by spending billions on a failed missile shield and the V-22 Osprey.

In the comments:

The PNAC worldview is a front. It's a mirage. It serves a different purpose that the purpose it purports to support. It's not about Zionism as its critics so often contend, but about money. It's about shaping the mind of the public, and that is where the Straussian stuff comes into play.

The DLC (as it pertains to foreign policy) is just another face or mask of the same phenenomon.

So, you're right to say that the DLC worldview is not exactly aligned with the neo-conservative one. But the PNAC is almost as happy to use the DLC's mask as their own.

They would rather the DLC control the Democratic Party than the Bushies destroy the brand of both PNAC and the DLC.

[Terran1212]

34. War and Greed aren't a Republican monopoly

But then again more and more americans are not wanting either one of those things -- so maybe we can rid both the parties of those elements just as both parties are entrenched in them right now.

[GrumpyGreg]

2. Caligula? Nero? Aw,come on. I don't trust Wikipedia

anymore.

[rman]

28. The Enabling Act is a matter of historic fact - wiki is merely

an easily accesible source.

[Erika]

3. W is much more than a bumbling idiot. It is he who is evil.

Yes, corruption exists in both parties.

But I do not believe the majority of Democratic reps shares the evil of the republican majority.

You have to look at the core values and the actions of both. Republicans now back W who believes in bigger government, imperialism, and deficits. All the time ignoring our needs. It is not like the tax payer is a beggar, we just want our $ spent on us. Our needy.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

4. I have an issue with your "evil" characterizations, but I generally agree.

90% of the Dems in Congress are NOT part of the solution. They are career politicians that we've kept in office because they were Democrats. They may be more palatable than their Republican opponents, but they're still not part of the solution.

I want to postulate something...

A completely different political system doesn't have nearly the support it would need to survive, but I don't see a way to go forward under our current system. Might it be beneficial (in the long term) if we stopped voting for Democrats and started voting for PEOPLE? I'm not advocating supporting the Republican regulars, I'm suggesting that our party has ceased to be what we want it to be and we might be better served by cutting the bastards off financially and supporting a few candidates who truly represent US.

We've painted ourselves into a corner. Maybe the only way out is to get our feet a little messy and try something new...forget the Repub/Dem thing and back people who would legislate (and govern) the way we think they should.

[Erika]

5. Yeah, Nader gave the election to W

I'd rather work within the party than sabotage them and vote for outsiders.

I have a dear friend who voted for Nader because of his conscience and who has seen the damage done to the environment by W. He regrets his vote.

[MercutioATC]

14. I realize this isn't a common approach

IMO, we're thinking short-term. We're so eager to gain an inch that we forget the mile.

I really believe this is the crux of our problem. Until we change how we think, this isn't going away.

[AndyTiedye]

20. We Can't Afford a Long Term Approach. We Don't Have a Long Term…

…if the Rethugs and the BFEE stay in power.:nuke:

[MercutioATC]

25. I disagree...and I realize this is a reach...

...let's try to emulate the rest of the world for once.

We may currently be the most powerful nation on the planet, but it's clear that our "let's not look any farther than 2 years into the future" approach has been an abyssmal failure. That applies to both our foreign policy and the manner in which we elect our leaders.

If we expect change, we have to elect change.

[rman]

29. Yeah right, election fraud has nothing to do with it.

[Erika]

6. Would you care to identify those 90%?

I am interested.

[MercutioATC]

16. I was a general number. Do YOU feel your interests are being represented?

Look at the Hayden vote. Look at the Roberts vote.

Are these people (your elected representatives ) doing what what you want them to or are they voting to further their own political ends?

[AndyTiedye]

27. Ralph Nader All Over Again

Might it be beneficial (in the long term) if we stopped voting for Democrats and started voting for PEOPLE?

…while the Repubs vote in lockstep for their party, as they always do, leading to All Republicans All The Time.

You think that if our party is utterly destroyed, that it can be rebuilt from the ground up.
That might take 10 or 20 years.
During all that time, the Rethuglicans continue to consolidate their power.
Do you think they'll even HAVE elections by the time we could build a new party?

[MercutioATC]

35. So our decline is inevitable?

:shrug:

[AndyTiedye]

36. If We Let Repubs Run Us into the Ground While We Rebuild Our Party

[MercutioATC]

39. So the solution is to keep electing Dems tht don't represent us?

We're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later, aren't we?

Why not begin now?

[AndyTiedye]

41. Support Progressives in the Primaries

But please don't bolt to a 3rd party in the general election!

[MercutioATC]

42. Doesn't that just support the status quo?

Politicians like Lieberman LIVE for this stuff. He gets to fellate Bush, knowing that there are a ton of people who will vote for him just because he's a "Democrat".

How does this solve our problem?

[AndyTiedye]

43. You Would Have to Bring Up Lieberman

Lieberman has a primary challenger: Ned Lamont.
I hope Lamont wins. I'm sure you do too.

I'm glad I don't live in Connecticut anymore.
I'd really have to hold my nose to vote for Lieberman.
That and get myself sprayed by a skunk before voting.
I'm not sure even that wouldn't be enough.

[earth mom]

7. Great post! The fact that Congress has not made one move to Impeach *

proves to me beyond a doubt that not only that Congress is corrupt beyond measure, but also that we are in VERY serious trouble...

[Erika]

9. Most Americans know we are in trouble

But you have to look at the core values of each party and go from there.

The Republicans have pretty well destroyed this country using 9/11 as a guise. Yet they take tax $ from the working class and give them to the rich while cutting back on programs to help our needy.

[leftofthedial]

8. these vermin have been breeding in the dark, foul places

for generations

[knowbody0]

10. excellent post

our pathetic apathy delivered us to this diabolical administration. WE are responsible.

[LibertyorDeath]

11. You are definitely paying attention

The Fascists are on the march.

I hope enough Americans wake up to this truth in time.

"The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"
Edmund Burke

[LibertyorDeath]

12. This deserves to be on the greatest just needs one more Rec

[originalpckelly]

13. I have a feeling the Republicans are no longer Republicans...

Let's see:
Smaller government, Republican-Republicans & Democrats; Big Brother government, GWB "Republicans"
Reduced Deficit, Republican-Republicans & Democrats; largest deficits in history, GWB "Republicans"
Cautious and pragmatic foreign policy, Republican-Republicans & Democrats (aside from President Carter); ideological foreign policy based upon absurdities, GWB "Republicans"


We are living in a topsy turvy world.

The problems are universal. Clinton, unbeknownst to myself, allowed these horrible things called roving wiretaps:
"To "rove" means to wander from place to place, with no particular destination. A "roving wiretap" is a tap on any telephone that a suspect uses, roving from one telephone to another, with no particular locational target. The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation is now authorized to engage in roving wiretaps without having to get approval by a court.

The FBI obtained this power in the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal 1999, H.R. 3694. The roving wiretap provisions are in section 604, "Wire and Electronic Communications Interception Requirements." (See www.cdt.org/legislation/calea/roving.html by the Center for Democracy and Technology; [e-mail]).

With the power provided by this 1999 Act, the FBI may now tap your telephone to listen to and record your calls, without having to get a court warrant, even if they are not investigating you. If they suspect that someone you know, such as a friend, relative, or business contact, is using your telephone for illegal activities, they may tap your phone. The FBI may tap any phone the suspect uses or even just possible has access to, such as when he visits your house. This applies to faxes and computer messages also. "

It sounds like Bush's Big Brother programs started under Clinton. You see I think there is a general trend of downward decline that started when Nixon attempted a silent coup. People saw that it was almost possible then, but now imagine how likely it is. Horrible!!!

[Erika]

15. You state Bush's big brother programs were started by Clinton?

OK please give details.

[originalpckelly]

21. He signed the law...

and last time I checked that gave him responsibility for it. He could have vetoed it.

What part didn't you get from the article?

Last time I checked, the use of the term Big Brother implied spying on people not suspected of a crime. That roving wiretap law allowed it to happen. I didn't know about that before, or I would have raised hell about it, in my own little way.

I am actually stunned to find out about it.

No, Clinton didn't start all these awful programs we now have to deal with today, but some of the precedents set by his singing this law did allow the programs to be more palatable.

I should have said it more precisely.

PS: You need to take a chill pill, every time I post something this time of night you jump on it and well, criticize even little details of wording. I have had this problem before in another thread. I personally don't think people have to be so terse when they disagree with each other (and actually, I don't think my opinion is probably to far from yours.)

[AJ9000]

30. Hi Erica. There is a saying

that Mike Malloy of AAR likes to use: "Clinton was the best Republican president we've had in years."

I'd take him any day over these folks.

But the fact is, many of his policies were that of a "moderate" conservative - NAFTA, the expansion of NATO into the Eastern bloc, the giant military base in Kosovo for example.

We didn't even have a liberal horse in the race in 04 (and might not in 08.) Kerry supported the Pat act, and the war.

No true liberal candidate could have supported either.

[mortlefaucheur]

17. First Off,

you're making incorrect assumptions that German and American societies were anything like inter-changeable for the imputed purposes you cite.

[BadGimp]

18. Nothing to worry about...

We will not win even ONE of the houses.

The fix is in and the voting machines put in place as a result of the HAVA legislation will ensure that the GOP can steal enough elections to solidify their power for a long time to come.

Problem solved.

[AJ9000]

31. It needs fixing, but the old fashioned

kinds of cheating more likely won them the 04 elections.

[upi402]

22. OP -right on! But get ready to get flame from the ostrich Dems

:hi:

[luckyleftyme2]

38. I fail to find this post has any meaning

I fail to see anything in upi402 post to relate to anything in this thread?
prehaps he's a neocon who just brought his ostrich head outa "dubya land"
This is the edited version feel in the blank =it starts with A-AND ENDS WITH S!

[upi402]

44. Welcome to DU luckyleftyme2

[AndyTiedye]

23. There is No Comparison

The reason that the FBI was allowed to search that office was because
the regime wants to paint the same picture that you are trying to paint:
that both parties are equally corrupt. That way, they get to keep
control of Congress, and Bush** never gets investigated.

Of course the Democrat who is getting investigated gets far more
media attention than all the Abramoff Republicans put together.

[originalpckelly]

32. Did you take money from Jack Abramoff?

Need I say more?

[Robeson]

24. Much of what you say is true....

...good post...:thumbsup:

[niallmac]

26. Hitlers achievements involved many factors that were ripe

for the picking but your post is appreciated for it's emphasis upon the lessons
of history that are not being studied here.

The invasion of our Congressional branch by the executive
is a dark and foreboding event.

The ulitimate intimidation of the press is underway with the AIPAC
case. It's all a game of chess and before this checker playing public
figures it out the game will be over.

[sarahlee]

37. Intended to post this reply to you and

your post and missed the mark. So here is the link to the post I made above.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1305835&mesg_id=1308714

[FogerRox]

40. Good peice....... KNR

Defend America: Impeach BUSH, Indict Cheney

N O W !

[originalpckelly]

45. I think we should come up with a solid plan to solve this problem(nt)

[Ravy]

46. I disagree that Congress should be protected against a lawfully

executed search warrant. It is part of the checks and balances thing you were complaining about not having.

[originalpckelly]

47. No one said the search couldn't be conducted...

I don't want to have to explain this, I hope you have broadband so you can watch the C-Span coverage of the Judiciary Committee hearing:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e053006_fbi.rm

[Ravy]

49. I woudn't want to have to explain your statement either...but you made it

"Congress is corrupt and because of that, the FBI was allowed to do a search in a Congressional office, and the American people just let it blow by because we don't trust Congress.

Most people probably think members of Congress want special privileges, you're right they do, but they SHOULD have them."

I simply disagree. Let's leave it at that.

[upi402]

48. I donate $ to a Dem challenging a DINO

and try to convince my fellow Dems that; if it walks like a Republican, and it talks like a Republican -then it's a Republican (no matter which party it's in).

[originalpckelly]

50. I am lucky...

I have Diana DeGette. I wish she would become minority leader. She is from Colorado and I think she wouldn't be such an easy target for Republicans.