2 in CIA to testify Libby lied on leak

[kpete]

2 in CIA to testify Libby lied on leak

BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - Two top CIA officials will bolster prosecutors' charge that Vice President Cheney's chief aide lied to them, court papers show.
Prosecutors say disgraced Cheney chief of staff Lewis (Scooter) Libby learned CIA spy Valerie Plame's identity from, among others, agency officials who will be called to testify at his trial for perjury, false statements and obstruction of justice.

The U.S. alleges he learned about Plame from one of the CIA officials when he went after dirt on her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Wilson shattered a pillar of President Bush's rationale for war - that Iraq was seeking to build a nuclear weapon.

Both CIA officials - including a top architect of the 2003 Iraq invasion - discussed Plame with Libby a month before columnist Robert Novak blew her cover in July 2003, prosecutors charge.

Libby has said journalists told him about Plame - not Cheney or the six witnesses named so far by prosecutors.

more at:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/420152p-354720c.html

[babylonsister]

1. And the walls come tumblin' down. Yee-hah! nt

[H2O Man]

2. The Plame scandal

is becoming easier for the public to understand. And it is coming closer and closer to old Dick Cheney. I think we can expect the rabid right wing to begin attacking the messengers in the next few weeks.

[babylonsister]

5. This doesn't bode well, does it? I think once the public 'gets it',

they'll realize it's like a soap opera that couldn't be made up, making it that much more compelling.
(Rubbing hands together wickedly/delightedly!)

[wordpix]

16. "like a soap opera:" LOL, maybe the sheeple will get it b/c this story

with its evil & sinister vs. honest & upright characters could be written for "Days of Our Lives."

[987654321]

81. I don't think that the public will get it completely...

until the mass news media spends as much time on it as they do on the American Idol saga or the Natalie Holloway mystery. Damn those corporate bastards dumbing down American at every chance they get!

[kpete]

15. I agree

My gut has been telling me this for about a month now - Fitz is after Dick.

By the way, H20man - HOW do you think Fitz got the Cheney "annotated" Wilson article - and from WHOM did he get it?

[janx]

36. Same here.

Fitz is working his way up the chain.

[capi888]

22. Indeed!

Could it be, when the paper with all the scribblings on it from the VP, sent the cabel in overdrive. Cheney would know (visiting CIA tons of times) that Plame was part of the investigation of A.Q Kahn. and would screw up his plans for taking out Iran. Then when he heard her husband was sent to check out the uranium out of niger, probably sent his blood pressure sailing.
Yep, I think Fitz is after Cheney !!!

[grasswire]

59. I suspect that...

...Cheney shut down Plame's counter proliferation work because of plans against IRAN. He knew Iraq had nothing; he didn't want the world to know Iran had nothing, too.

What do you think?

[Me.]

3. Put A Fork In Him

And doesn't Grenier sound like a real sweetheart too?

*shadow government*

[OzarkDem]

4. Cheney must be fighting Fitzgerald - hard

The fact that this information is being leaked right now means there are some real "knock down - drag out" negotiations going on behind the scenes.

Combined with the media silence on Rove and the leaking of news that reporters are being spied on shows there's a real battle going on.

[goclark]

40. Where is Edward R. when we need him!

Put all the R'Cons in jail now, do not pass go!

[grasswire]

54. I agree

The implications in this article are more weighty even than the facts. What a backstory.

6. some articles on firing of Robert Grenier because he opposed torture

CIA official Robert Grenier, station chief in Islamabad, Pakistan, CIA's Iraq Issue Group

washington post feb 2006
Top Counterterrorism Officer Removed Amid Turmoil at CIA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020700016.html


CIA DDO RODRIGUEZ OUSTS HEAD OF COUNTERTERRORISM ROBERT GRENIER
by CLAYTON HALLMARK Monday, Feb. 06, 2006

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/02/1800617.php


CIA chief sacked for opposing torture

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2036182,00.html

Craig Schmall, a CIA briefer

[Me.]

11. Well There You Go

Here you have the MSM making an important point about someone that apparently isn't true. I don't know if it is a point the defense could use to impeach Grenier (you're a torturer therefore a little lie here and there couldn't bother you) but I can't imagine a jury would take to it very kindly. Of course, as it is a B*** policy one doesn't know if they would have considered throwing it into the mix, but as nothing is sacred to Team Libby. I have to wonder if this is part of a disInfo campaign, a subtle dirtying up of prosecution witnesses.

*shadow government*

14. Grenier opposed torture but CIA said they fired him

because he was not tough enough against Al Queda.

Defense certainly can't say he approved of torture program. Is that what you are saying?

[Me.]

17. My Thought Was

That if he is a prosecution witness and if what the DN has just reported was true, I would have wondered about the defense's ability to dirty him up. As it is, you have potential jurors out there who might read that bit about him and come to a negative conclusion about that witness. It seems to me, after reading the links you provided, that there is a muddying of the waters going on here.

*shadow government*

[wordpix]

21. in CIA's warped mind, perhaps refusing to torture=not tough with al Quaeda

[leveymg]

12. Grenier may have known a lot about Plame's Counter-proliferation work as

it overlapped his own work against AQ Khan's network. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/20/14939/6889

New Evidence of Motive In Plame Outing?
by leveymg
Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 11:09:39 AM PDT
Did Plame's Outing Disrupt CIA Iran Assessment?

UPDATED - A court filing in the Libby case indicates that a former Agency counterrorism officer in Pakistan revealed Plame's undercover role to I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. This may provide support for the contention that the subsequent outing of Plame crippled work that was being done by the CIA to track and contain the proliferation of nuclear technologies spread by A.Q. Khan's network. Specifically, it may have effectively neutralized CIA analytical capability concerning Iran's weapons program, opening the door to tainted intelligence intended to pave the way for a preemptive U.S. or Israeli strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. See, http://www.truthout.org/... also see, the 39-page filing, http://talkleft.com/...

leveymg's diary :: ::
Mr. Libby has been indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice related to a coordinated White House operation that revealed Ms. Plame's identity to reporters. The 39-page filing submitted by defense lawyers indicates that Robert Grenier, a recently-retired former head of CIA counter-terrorism, may have been the source for some details of Libby's knowledge about Plame, an undercover CIA counterproliferation expert. Appointed head of counterrorism in 2004, Grenier was Chief of Station in Islamabad, and had been working in Pakistan for many years, a position that would make him familiar with A.Q. Khan's activities. According to a February Washington Post report printed at the time of Grenier's departure from the Agency in February, Grenier had been recalled from Pakistan to headquarters and been tasked to head the Iraq Issues Group in anticipation of the U.S. invasion. According to The Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

Robert Grenier, who spent most of his career undercover overseas, took charge of the Counterterrorism Center about a year ago after a series of senior jobs at the center of the Bush administration's national security agenda.

When al Qaeda struck the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, Grenier was station chief in Islamabad, Pakistan. Among the agency's most experienced officers in southwest Asia, Grenier helped plan the covert campaign that preceded the U.S. military ouster of al Qaeda and its Taliban allies from Afghanistan.

By the summer of 2002, with President Bush heading toward war in Iraq, then-Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet recalled Grenier to headquarters and promoted him to chief of a newly created Iraq Issues Group. His staff ballooned as the administration planned and launched the invasion in March 2003.

It is unknown whether Grenier became acquainted with Plame during his stint at CIA headquarters, or whether they had previously worked on matters in South Asia. But, both would likely have extensive knowledge of matters related to Pakistan's commerce in nuclear technology with Iran. From the mid-1980s until 1997, the A.Q. Khan network was Iran's primary supplier of nuclear know-how.

The A.Q. Khan network was of interest to both the CIA counter-terrorism and counter-proliferation divisions

The court filing revealing Mr. Grenier's knowledge of Ms. Plame sheds new light on how the CIA's nuclear counterproliferation activities were connected to counter-terrorism operations in South Asia, and some new clues to Plame's role at CIA.

It has been reported that Plame's primary assignment at the time of her outing in the summer of 2003 was Iran's nuclear program. If Grenier's knowledge of Plame's role was gained during the run-up to the Iraq invasion, it might indicate that Grenier simply worked down the hall from Plame. On the other hand, the two may have had a closer acquaintance. If Grenier had been working with Plame earlier, this would have much broader implications for Plame's role within the Agency and might suggest possible additional motives for the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) to ruin her career.

It has been suggested that the underlying purpose of Plame's exposure was to remove her from a position where she reported on Iranian nuclear programs.

SNIP

[hootinholler]

76. Certainly was a 2 birds/1 stone moment n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

58. Goss: 'Americans can't keep a secret.'

In last Friday’s New York Times, Goss wrote that leakers within the CIA were damaging the agency’s ability to fight terrorism and causing foreign intelligence organisations to lose confidence. “Too many of my counterparts from other countries have told me, ‘You Americans can’t keep a secret’.” Goss is believed to have blamed Grenier for allowing leaks to occur on his watch.
from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2036182,00.html

Hmmm. Maybe if you tried NOT TORTURING, people wouldn't feel they had to blow the whistle on you. Same goes for DOMESTIC SPYING and SECRET DETENTIONS.

So the AG is threatening the media, when the admin really needs to LOOK IN THE FREAKING MIRROR.

61. This administration is like Gestapo

with a mask on

[DemReadingDU]

7. It wouldn't surprise me if Bush/Cheney/Hayden/Gonzales

have used the warrantless wiretapping to gather info about Fitzgerald and his team about the ongoing CIA leak case and then use this info against the witnesses

[wordpix]

23. NOTHING surprises me with this illegal government anymore & I think

you're right

[bleever]

57. I found it suspicious that Rove was in Chicago, Fitz's

(professional) home turf.

Who would doubt that they'd pull out ALL the stops to save their skins?

[capi888]

8. Watching all the Talk shows, interviews this past week....

Bush makeing tons of speeches (Laura by his side). Condileeza, the Attorney Gen. Gonzales,
CHENEY'S DAUGHTER, Rove making speeches, R Senators, and Congressmen.....All speaking on the media, tells me they are running scared. They took over the airwaves since the hint that Rove/Cheney was in trouble! Lets see did we hear from Cheney???? I could hardly watch the Sunday Shows, with all the RW talking points. The RW was in high geer for the past week....just my thoughts. SCARED , SCARED, SCARED, if Cheney goes down, they will be left with BUSH....to make decisions...OMG...

[wordpix]

24. yes, every time I turned to a different Sun. talk show I saw Condi

[DemReadingDU]

66. For a diversion, there is the Clinton's marriage, page 1, NYT

Times plans page one story on Clinton's marriage
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Times_plans_page_one_story_on_0522.html

[leveymg]

9. Schmall and Grenier were named in Libby's discovery request on 5/12

See, Team Libby's discovery memorandum http://talkleft.com/libbyresp512.pdf in support of his requests for documents pertaining to potential trial witnesses and others.* Background here: http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014839.html

Libby's lawyers propose to call potential defense witnesses: (1) Richard Armitage; (2) Colin Powell; (3) Stephen Hadley; (4) Bill Harlow; (5) Karl Rove; (6) Joseph Wilson; and (7) Valerie Wilson. See Mot. at 15-16. All of these persons were discussed by Mr.
Libby during his grand jury testimony.

Now for the factual goodies in the pleading: First up is former DIA spokesperson Bill Harlow, whom Libby says was the source for Cathie Martin.

To use one potential defense witness to illustrate the nature of the documents we seek, the defense may call Bill Harlow, the CIA's former spokesperson, as a witness. SNIP

See Indictment, Count One, ¶ 18. Mr. Harlow may be called to testify about that conversation and about whether he told her that such information was secret. Such testimony would support the defense's contention that Ms. Martin did not tell Mr. Libby that Ms. Wilson's employment at the CIA was classified, which would help the defense to contest the government's argument that Mr. Libby should have known such information was classified.

SNIP

Libby says the Government's chief witnesses regarding the allegation he lied about where he learned about Plame's employment are:

These witnesses and alleged conversation dates include: (1) Under Secretary of State Marc Grossman (June 11 or 12); (2) CIA official Robert Grenier (June 11); (3) CIA briefer Craig Schmall (June 14); (4) White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer (July 7); (5) Counsel to the Vice President David Addington (July 8); and (6) Cathie Martin (on or before July 8).

Two classfied e-mails are germane to the case.

Further, at oral argument, defense counsel brought two classified e-mail messages to the Court's attention to provide illustrations of how certain of the few documents the government has produced so far are highly relevant to our defenses. Because we could not discuss classified information in open court, we have filed a sealed declaration to describe the materiality of these documents to the Court. See Sealed Declaration of Theodore V. Wells, Jr., dated May 12, 2006. We believe that the government possesses many other such material documents and that those documents are called for by the requests in our Motion.

Libby narrows and identifies issues.

....we expect the government to attempt to prove that one or more government witnesses who allegedly discussed Ms. Wilson with Mr. Libby conveyed to him that her affiliation with the CIA was a secret. A key part of the defense will be that these government witnesses either did not know that Ms. Wilson's employment status was classified, or did not communicate such information to Mr. Libby.

There's another veiled credibility attack on Marc Grossman:

Second, and more importantly, documents that contain . . . information showing that Mr. Grossman had a close relationship with Mr. Wilson and/or his wife does not necessarily constitute exculpatory or impeachment material, but discovering such information would help the defense develop a potentially fruitful line of cross examination for Mr. Grossman.

SNIP

<______________________________________________[br />P.S. - Grenier was first identified by a court filing back in March. See Post 12, below. He may have had significant knowledge of Plame's counter-proliferation work and her role in evaluating the Iranian nuclear program.

[Me.]

13. Confused

How can Grenier be called to prove Libby lied and called to prove he didn't?

*shadow government*

[leveymg]

18. That perplexed me as well. It seems that the defense are making two

contradictory statements. One thing is clear, though. Grenier knew a lot about Plame's work on Iran's WMD program, and it is not implausible that she, along with here husband, was trageted by the OSP-OVP for retirement, as they both refused to go along with the falsification of Iraq and Iran WMD intelligence. Please see my posts above.

[TahitiNut]

20. Defense is limited to cross-examination only on testimony ...

... given in direct. By calling a (hostile) witness in defense, they can open up lines of testimony (presumedly) not introduced in direct. (IANAL!!) Make sense?

[leveymg]

26. I can see the prosecution objecting to this tactic

BUT - If Fitz doesn't object, that might tell us that Libby's defense strategy isn't simply limited to trying for tactical advantage, and that there's quite a lot of behind-the-scenes cooperation with the Special Prosecutor.

It only makes sense that Libby gave Fitz the Cheney annotated NYT article. Anyone know if Libby's objecting to its introduction? How would anyone other than Libby have possession of that?

[Me.]

29. My Guess Would Be

Cathie Martin. I can't see Libby giving FitzG. anything, and certainly not giving up Cheney. But this is only a guess.

*shadow government*

edited for sp.

[leveymg]

31. If Martin was the source for Plame's covert status and she talked to

Cheney and Libby about that before the July 13 publication of Novak's article, then she provided the last piece of the puzzle that's needed to complete a conspiracy to violate the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA).

I want to know, why would some CIA guy tell her - she's a pretty low-ranking person at OVP. The only guess would be, she was used as a cut-out. Anyone remember the date that Martin rode AF2 with Cheney and Libby?

[Me.]

42. Don't Know If She Was The Source Of The LeaK

Don't quite see that myself, though anything is possible. However, she might have had access to that annotated article and handed it over. Obviously, this is conjecture on my part, as we won't know till we know.

*shadow government*

[leveymg]

46. Martin's real significance is that she was on board AF2 with VP and Libby

When they returned to DC, Cheney (or was it Libby) immediately went to see Addington, who was Cheney's lawyer. The date stands out in my mind as being significant, because the very next day, there was a major development in the case. I noted this in a conversation with H20 Man about this some months ago. Can some one help me here?

Only recently has Martin come up again as an important figure.

[leveymg]

53. Eureka! "Cheney Authorized Leak Of CIA Report, Libby Says"

By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, April 14, 2006
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0414nj3.htm

Vice President Dick Cheney directed his then-chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on July 12, 2003 to leak to the media portions of a then-highly classified CIA report that Cheney hoped would undermine the credibility of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, a critic of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, according to Libby's grand jury testimony in the CIA leak case and sources who have read the classified report.

SNIP

(o)n July 12, 2003, the same day that Libby spoke to both Cooper and Miller, Libby and Cheney traveled aboard Air Force Two for the dedication of a new aircraft carrier in Norfolk, Va. During the flight either to or from Norfolk, Cheney, Libby, and Cathie Martin, then-assistant to the vice president for public affairs, discussed how they might rebut Wilson's charges and discredit him, according to federal court records, and interviews with people with first-hand knowledge of accounts that all three provided to federal investigators.

The reemergence of Cathie Martin can point to only one thing - Fitz has Cheney in the cross-hairs.

[janx]

56. That was fast. Did you remember something about this

article and then go find it? Excellent!

[leveymg]

64. Do that all the time.

That looks just like Steve's dog at Washington Note.

I have a yellow dog, myself. A yellow lab - Golden mix - he's just a Good Ol' Boy from the sticks of Virginia. Very laid back.

[janx]

88. I'll bet he likes to swim,

yes?

[leveymg]

73. Let's take this one more step - Martin discussed Plame w/VP and Libby

on 07/12, but that was after Libby told Miller about Plame on 07/08. But, here's the kicker - Cathie Martin may have been Pincus' source, but Pincus didn't publish the story, Novak did. Even though Pincus didn't publish, the conspiracy involving Cheney, Libby and Martin was still carried out, and could be prosecuted. Is it going to be prosecuted?

Here's some well-formed speculation by emptywheel:

thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/ contributoremptywheel/index.html

We also know that Cathie participated in a strategy session with Libby about how to respond to press inquiries about Plame. Given that she had this strategy session with two superiors, Cathie may have felt obliged to carry out whatever strategy Dick and Libby and she devised on July 12. (Cathie's participation in this strategy session makes me strongly suspect she might be Pincus' July 12 source.)

So here's my supposition. In one form or other, Libby may have ordered Ari and Cathie to leak information relating to Plame. Of course, if they did, then both have an incentive to come clean with Fitzgerald, get immunity, and testify against Libby. If I'm right, Libby could just claim that they're lying to avoid their own guilt. It's a similar strategy to the one I think they were attempting against Ari last summer.

But as soon as he does that, Fitzgerald can start building the case for a conspiracy to out Plame.

March 01, 2006 at 15:11 in Bush/Republican Scandals, Contributor--emptywheel | Permalink

[stop the bleeding]

77. great research

I remember the Waas article and emptywheel's posts on this, the theory is looking more like actually what happened with each passing day.

I am waiting for Rice to be tied up into this since she was the one in charge on AF1 when all of this was going down. Cheney, Libby, Rove and Martin did it on this side of the pond, but Rice, with Fliescher's and Powell's knowledge did it on that side of the pond in Africa.

Who worked with Powell? - none other than one Dick Armitage. Who has been suspected of helping Fitz? - Fleischer

So we have Cheney and Libby - what about Rover and Rice?

This whole thing is starting to come together - very exciting :)

[leveymg]

80. This on Bush, Cheney, Rice - hit the top of the DKos Most Recommended

Back in Feb. Fitz gave us the first clue that he had expanded the focus of his probe to Bush and Cheney, and that he was looking at the goings on of Condi and the press aboard AF1 in Africa on 7/11/03.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/6/12248/27290

FITZ LETTER: Bush, Cheney Now Prosecution Targets?
by leveymg
Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 09:24:08 AM PDT
In court papers published late last week, Patrick Fitzgerald revealed that his office has obtained at least one Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) that discusses the trip to Niger taken by Ambassador Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame.

While it was previously known that Bush and Cheney had been interviewed by Fitzgerald about the outing of Plame, this is the first indication that the prosecution in the case has started to look into documentation that might answer the question of questions: "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"

MORE below . . .

leveymg's diary :: ::
Lawyers for I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby had requested Bush's PDBs along with other classified documents as a part of discovery. Fitzgerald responded with a letter dated January 9 filed in federal court late last week, http://www.fas.org/...

Fitzgerald wrote: "As you are well aware, the documents referred to as Presidential Daily Briefs ("PDBs") are extraordinarily sensitive documents which are usually highly classified. We have never requested copies of any PDBs. However, we did ask for relevant documents relating to Ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife; Valerie Plame Wilson... and the trip undertaken by former Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger in 2002... from the Executive Branch of the President and the Office of the Vice President.

"We also sought from the Central Intelligence Agency documents relating to the same item.... relating to the same items, with the exception that the CIA was not requested to produce documents in the files regarding Valerie Plame and Wilson that were not related directly or indirectly to Ambassador Wilson's travel to Niger in February 2002.

SNIP

"In response to our requests, we have received a very discrete amount of material relating to PDBs. We have provided to Mr. Libby and his counsel (or are in the process of providing such documents consistent with the process of a declassification review) copies of any pages in our possession reflecting discussions of Joseph Wilson, Valerie Wilson and/or Wilson's trip to Niger contained in (or written on) copies of the President's Daily Brief (PDB) in the redacted form in which we received them."

It is likely that on June 19, 2003, Bush received the PDB discussing the Wilson trip. Murray Waas reported:

("Fitzgerald Court Papers: Bush Was Briefed on Joe Wilson", Fri Feb 3, 6:21 PM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/... ... ):

As my National Journal story first disclosed yesterday, then-CIA director George Tenet received a highly classified memo on June 17, 2003, on the Niger matter from his analysts warning that allegations that Saddam Hussein had attempted to procure uranium from the African nation were to no longer to be believed. In the memo, the CIA analysts wrote: "Since learning that the Iraqi-Niger uranium deal was based on false documents earlier this spring, we no longer believe that there is sufficient other reporting to conclude that Iraq purchased uranium from abroad."

SNIP

[Catrina]

87. Excellent research, levymg ~

Also, if Cheney is a target, she could be called as a witness again to verify those conversations. As I recall, Cheney was pretending that he didn't know Joe Wilson in tv interviews ~ but I'm not sure of the timeframe of those interviews ~

[TahitiNut]

32. It was *clearly* a part of SOMEBODY'S "Pearl Harbor File."

Somebody knew that it'd be essential as a piece of CYA when the feces hit the fan. Anyone in such a regime who doesn't keep a "Pearl Harbor File" is a total fool. If nothing else, the file is useful for extortion - ensuring that which was promised in return for 'loyalty' is actually provided. Such extortion is the medium of exchange in such cabals.

[leveymg]

38. That tells me that Cheney no longer can protect anyone. Even himself.

I've always used the term, "Doomsday File", but Pearl Harbor will work.

(General Marshall's horse must have had all the weight in the world on him during that Sunday morning ride.)

[stop the bleeding]

27. leveymg

hey M. I just wanted you to know that we are also keeping most filings here at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x3589

I still have to get some important ones from earlier in the year, but thought you should know so that you can find them easily, we all appreciate your take on this matter. ;)

[leveymg]

30. Well, thank you.

I wish I had more time to review all the original filings and source materials. I need time-management training.;)

[stop the bleeding]

33. I need to spend less time on DU so I can get you some of those

original filings - right now I am looking at 7 different PDF's with each having 20-30 pages that were broken up by 2 different filings from 01/26/05 and 01/31/05 - I think these were filed by Libby and were motions to Compel Discovery ect... I think these would be very helpful, but as stated before we need better time management training.:evilgrin:

[leveymg]

37. We need someone to pay us to do this.

I'd find the time if I didn't have to do other -- vastly less interesting -- work.

[stop the bleeding]

44. yeah I hear ya!

I have been trying to maintain a full time job, run a household, stay in shape for my bike racing requires about 12-15 hours per week of riding and then as if I didn't have enough time, I have been learning how to become a professional trader since about last Novemeber and that eats up all the free time/2-4 hours for each day. Hopefully the trading thing will work out so I can cut down if not all together cut out the work thing, then I will be able to offer more time to our research.

I need a vacation :)

[janx]

45. Digging around for stuff associated with this case

and talking about it is much more fun though, isn't it? :rofl:

[stop the bleeding]

48. even more fun is when these #%$&@'s get theirs

:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

[janx]

50. So Libby (AND Darth) know by now that these two

CIA guys cooperated with Fitz, right? That fact alone is wonderful. I wonder when they found out. I'm trying to picture their reactions... :rofl:

[leveymg]

68. I'm sure they've been cooperating since Day 1 - 03/30/03

the day the matter was referred by the CIA IG to the AG for prosecution.

Aces up Fitz's sleeve since the beginning of the poker match. When you think about it, there's no way that Dick, Libby and Rove were going to survive if they lied or told the truth. They knew it too -- they sacrificed themselves like an Infantry Regiment thrown against a Tank Division -- rear-guard sacrifice.

The sad thing is that the sacrificial delaying move worked -- Rove wasn't crazy at all to lie -- Bush-Cheney got reelected because the f!@#$%^ press refused to dig up the essential facts in this case, and go after the White House for outing Plame until after the election. Most of them are still pretending to ignore the obvious.

[leveymg]

63. When do you find time to sleep?

BTW: I used to work on the Floor of the NYSE. Have an article at Technical Analysis of Stocks & Commodities Magazine -- http://store.traders.com/chap5may20.html -- if I had a grub stake, I might also do some trading.

Good luck - luck really helps, but probabilities and fundamentals are most important!:thumbsup:

[stop the bleeding]

67. but probabilities and fundamentals are most important along with

good understanding and ability to read the technicals. I mostly played options yesterday I bought Puts and made over 20 -30% when the market was going down, today I turned around and bought Calls and made 20 - 30% when the market went up. This is something that I have been getting really good at in the last 3 months or so, that is being able to play both sides/make money on both sides of the market. So I hope to make it a full time gig, and yes QUIT MY DAY JOB - YEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!


I gotta go TIE(Titanium Metals) is at 36.40 I have a Call play that is gaining in value and I would like to watch it and trade it here in a little bit for a 10 - 20% gain

[leveymg]

69. Timiing those swings and bike riding - you must be a helluva

dancer.

Commodities are inverse to the Dollar. If I had $$$ I'd buy a bunch of puts. Gotta know when new supplies are coming on market, though. Those who are holding petroleum futures may find themselves squeezed if nothing comes of the Iran war drums, and a bunch of supply comes back on line.

I'm essentially an optimist -- can't see the Wall Street biggies really believe that there's any broad gains to be had from World War IV -- at least now in American markets. It would finish us as the dominant player -- we have the most to lose, like the Brits in 1913.

[Jazz2006]

71. Great resource, that. Thanks for the link.

:hi:

[wordpix]

78. TEam Libby's calling Valerie Wilson as defense witness? What's that about?

snip: :shrug:

Libby's lawyers propose to call potential defense witnesses: (1) Richard Armitage; (2) Colin Powell; (3) Stephen Hadley; (4) Bill Harlow; (5) Karl Rove; (6) Joseph Wilson; and (7) Valerie Wilson. See Mot. at 15-16. All of these persons were discussed by Mr.
Libby during his grand jury testimony.

[yellowcanine]

10. "Oops - is that smoke coming from the end of that gun, Mr. Libby?"

It's "Let's make a deal" time for Mr. Libby!


Popcorn anyone?

[madrchsod]

19. i want to see the witness list this guy

claims he saw. otherwise i`ll wait and see if this report has any truth at all.

[leveymg]

28. The Libby defense witness list is in Post 9

Is that the list you mean?

[madrchsod]

85. thank you very much for pointing out a thread i should have read..

sometimes i get ahead of myself. this certainly puts a whole new persective on what is happening and it seems there is going to be some really interesting indictments coming up...

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. It is part of the court record

the list of people that Libby is planning to call to testify.

[stop the bleeding]

25. The SS Libby has been officially devastated with recent torpedoed news

it is going down - all abandon ship, now lets look at Rove, Rice and Darth

[kpete]

34. Oh yeah....

[janx]

43. I want to see Darth on the witness stand!

Oh please, please!

[Scout1071]

35. K&R

[stepnw1f]

41. Merry Fitzmas

I know it annoys some... I do so with pleasure.

The truth is dripping out...

[katinmn]

47. tick tock

Cheney's time will run out.

[saltpoint]

49. Y'know, if the CIA officials' testimony is true, it's gonna reflect badly

on Scooter's boss.

Maybe even REAL badly.

[janx]

51. REALLY?

:rofl: :pals:

[saltpoint]

55. Hey there, janx. If you ever get tired of that dog in your sig field,

I'll take it. What a great animal that looks like.

And I'm sure it's a Democratic dog, too.

Yep. Uncle Dick might not come out of this whole thing too well. I imagine there's a handful of folks from State and the CIA who interpret their roles as government officials quite a bit differently than Dick Cheney.

And there ain't no weepin' for Dick Cheney at my house.

[janx]

60. That's a pic of my dog from almost six years ago.

He's asleep on the sofa as we speak. And yes, he's a Dem. I have somewhere a photo of him sporting a Dean button.

Thank God there are some in government with some integrity. People like that have been hard to come by these five and a half years.

[saltpoint]

65. Yes. Well, the GOP has its hands full for this November.

We're suited up and ready to play, and I like our chances better than theirs.

You take care of that great dog!

[janx]

89. I'll take good care of him.

Here's what he looks like now:

[saltpoint]

90. THAT is an earnest creature. I like him. I bet he's in good hands, too.

[grasswire]

52. wow

Good reporting by the NYDN. Thanks, Pete

[janx]

62. kick

[stepnw1f]

70. Why Don't the TO and Will Bashers Respond to This?

hmmmmmmmmm.....

Not entertaining enough?...hehe

[stop the bleeding]

72. I am content to let sleeping dogs lie where they are

I just want to get some resolution on this matter so that DU can move on to the next blood on the walls argument(s).

[stepnw1f]

74. I Hear Ya

I'll be good... promise. Thanks for keeping up with the research.

[leveymg]

75. Tell me what you think about Post 73, above. eom

[DisgustedTX]

83. Because the DAILY NEWS got the TRUTHOUT!

:(

I don't recall being pitted and leopoled on this one.

Still a cretin of limited mental capacity; s**tdog; and not "THE MAGIC MAN!"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

79. Why, oh, Why can't the trial be in October !!! nt

[Ksec]

82. and all Fitz could find was perjury?

On Libby alone?

IMO hes not trying to hard. We may have jumped the gun by jumping on his bandwagon.

If he doesnt give me some conspiracy charges against the top dogs, hes stonewalling for the Repukes.

[madrchsod]

86. that is what fitzgerald did in illinois to bring down george ryan

he started out with seemingly small indictments and convictions that finally led to ryans conviction. fitz is also doing the same to the mayor of chicago...it`s been fun watching fitzgerald work in illinois..

[SoCalDem]

84. Anyone who watched the 911 hearings knows he's cooked.

My ears perked up when sevearl testified that Cheney & Scooter were practically DAILY 'visitors' to the CIA..and how odd they thought that was because vice presidents had NEVER done that before..

It's an agency FULL of spies...can anyone believe that they didn't know what was going on??