OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD THREAD 17

[newyawker99]

From Skinner:

We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. Fer chrissakes....

18 threads? Wow.

:wow:

[leftstreet]

17. LOL But really this Admin decision was awesome

Cleans up the boards, gives those interested a place to...talk, and leaves the rest a place to check in and see if Rove got indicted.

I hope they'll continue to do it with any potential Fight Club Threads.

:toast:

[MADem]

43. I agree, it keeps a hot topic corralled, so one isn't bouncing from thread

to thread.

[Catherine Vincent]

2. Fitz !!

[MrSlayer]

3. Screw 17.

[mdmc]

4. anything new?

[stepnw1f]

6. yes... the Moderator Just Posted Thread 18

you should check it out! :P

[many a good man]

22. Update: Everyone's made up and happy now

The anger and meanness has lifted and burned away like a mid-morning fog. The roadside is littered with tombstones and we're all still waiting to hear from Will.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. LOL. n/t

MKJ

[Catherine Vincent]

31. All the meaness and anger are still here.

[Frosty1]

25. The runaway brides marriage is off and..

britney almost dropped her baby..english is the official language of the us.....:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. You forgot a big one! Jimmy Hoffa is missing and dozens of

FBI agents are searching for him! Seems like deja vu all over again....

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. Well, how about this weather huh?

eom

[stepnw1f]

9. It's Not so Bad Today

considering the amount of rain we have been getting.

[Swamp Rat]

7. Where's Jason Leopold?

We have a bonfire ready for him.



:)

[BurtWorm]

14. JASON LEOPOLD HAS BEEN BONFIRED

sources say.

:o

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

19. Ah, the vanity of it all.

:)

[arwalden]

94. Oh, Boo! Hiss!

:rofl:

[LiberalEsto]

20. Please don't condemn Jason yet

It might be that KKKarl is squealing on someone in order to make a last-minute deal to save him own ass.

And instead of handing up the indictment when everyone was expecting it, Fitzgerald is taking notes that could help him nail someone else as well.

I don't think that Jason posted that story as a deliberate lie. He was convinced it was going to happen. The possibilities are that he was misled in the type of Rovian trap that was set for Dan Rather, or that new factors have emerged, such as KKKarl's deciding to sing.

[Jazz2006]

28. It's not about handing up the indictment when everyone was expecting it...

Leopold reported that it was a done deal, that Rove was served with the indictment on May 12, which could only have been done had the indictment been handed up some time on or before May 12.

It's not a matter of Leopold being "convinced it was going to happen" - he reported that it had already happened - past tense.

[HereSince1628]

29. ??? The editors' job wasn't done right, the author's job wasn't

done right. Every last one of them was supposed to be more skeptical than any of us.

[BurtWorm]

37. They really picked a bad time to lose their skepticism, too.

Right in the middle of a pledge drive.

[HereSince1628]

79. Yep

[Miss Chybil]

35. Hell, we waited for two years after H20 man said the whole Plame

affair was going to be an affair before it was an affair as far as the MSM was concerned. This Rove wait has only been a week. I am getting a little doubtful, though.

[dalloway]

99. That's what I think. Rove's gift is to make so many fall leads

that by the time he is indicted, it will be "old news". And we know how the MSM shies away from reporting OLD news.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

130. You do not "make deals" prior to indictment

Everything in that story "reported" by Leopold was demonstrably false. Everything. The legal details were so wrong, not even close to accurate.

It was not posted as an accidental lie, surely. It was deliberately written and posted, and now the consequences are emerging.

Karl Rove was not indicted. None of what was alleged in that story ever happened, and it was all done by those who have committed the terrible sin of betraying the trust of those who believed in them.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

40. OK, my post is childish and somewhat hurtful...

... but is meant to entertain.
If the modmins delete it,
I won't complain.
Poetry!

Anagrams for "Jason Leopold News Junkie" (his new book)
(if you think these are harsh, you should see the ones I rejected)

• Join weasel-led snoop junk.
  
  
• Leaden-jowl junkie snoops.
  
  
• Junk news: a poisoned Jello®?
  
  
• Onion¹ pulls “deja news”² joke.
  
  
• Join naked Jello® news opus.
  
  
• Junkie Jason needs wollop?

¹ Reference to the satirical publication The Onion www.theonion.com. This whole episode seems like a prank.
² Leopold has claimed Rove's indictment several times, since before Libby went down.

That's the best I can do. You go to the anagram generator with the letters you have, not the letters you want.

[Snivi Yllom]

41. you rock

good work

[Cameron27]

71. Leaden-jowl-junkie snoops

I got to that one and just burst out laughin....love the anagrams....thanks for posting

[Cooley Hurd]

45. The Witchsmeller Pursuivant!!!

:scared:

Cool ref, Swampy! :rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

51. Ah, another Black Adder fan!

;)

Here's another reference: to put your trust in someone like Jason Leopold is just plain...



:D

[MADem]

67. Running around trying to find Luskin's sick cat, perhaps???

[Swamp Rat]

76. POOR KITTY!

Must be very chilly 'dressed' like that! :scared:

[Individualist]

122. Very comfortable in the summer

My cat looks very much like the persian in this picture -

Last year I got him a lion cut similar to this but with his pretty, bushy tail left as was. He was one pissed kitty at the time it was done! He wouldn't even let me pet him for more than two hours after I got him home, no doubt his way of saying "What have you done to me??!!". However, after a while he realized it felt pretty good and was okay with it from then on. I called him my little lion king and am going to have the same thing done in the next week or so.

[Moloch]

83. LOL The Lion Cut!!!!

I *LOVE* that one!

In case you got that picture somewhere other than Snopes, here's a link for ya: http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/lioncut.asp the story is a hoot and a holler.

[MADem]

126. I got that story in an email years ago, cracked me up! n/t

[Bunny]

8. Wow. Thread #17 must have been a doozy!

[savemefromdumbya]

15. so cute

[Jazz2006]

18. More likely it's sealed under a super-duper top secret process

known only to the mods.

:D

[Snivi Yllom]

53. double secret probation

.

[Jazz2006]

in a double secret dungeon

:D

[BurtWorm]

10. Seems like Thread 16 was just yester"business"day.

Didn't we skip 17?

[Karmakaze]

13. Im just waiting for...

Thread 20. Sources tell me it will be some time this week.

[MADem]

47. Will that be 24 hours from now, or 24 "business" hours

And do you have five sources to back up that claim? http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/print.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2006/05/15/rove/index.html

[magpie]

11. I opened all the doors on my Fitzvent calendar.

I'll wait 'till midnight to eat the last chocolate.

[sendero]

16. somebody trashed mine..

... and put in some candy corn and aspirin :(

[_testify_]

23. LOL

great movie!

[shadowlight]

116. Your post made my DU day. nt

[Jazz2006]

12. damkira: from the last thead...

Sorry, I tried to post this link to you as you were looking for some the threads you missed but I mistakenly left out the link and the thread was locked before I could edit it.

So here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1236596&mesg_id=1236835

That is a post by Snivi Yllom who kindly linked threads 1 through 14.

Hope that helps.

:hi:

[Moloch]

21. Thank you, Sir or Ma'am.

Your profile didn't say.

[Jazz2006]

59. You're welcome, Sir or Ma'am :)

:hi:

[benburch]

24. We interrupt thie flamewar for an important announcement!

[diamondsndust]

26. No indictment yet?!?!?!?!?

I'm gonna go jump off my roof now....

oh wait... life goes on!

[thereismore]

32. Ehm, what did I miss? This is my first post in the OFFICIAL thread. nt

[JeffR]

44. You missed it????!!!!! Here's a quick recap to catch you up

Rove pled guilty as charged, served 5 years in a medium security facility, was released, and is now doing voter recruitment drives for the Democratic Party.

Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, after John Roberts' involvement with the missing girl in Aruba was revealed.

Bush was impeached and is living in the Green Zone in Bahgdad. Dick Cheney disappeared into a secure undisclosed location before he could be apprehended by authorities, and has never been heard from again.

Jason Leopold is now at the Washington Post, working with Judy Miller, under the watchful eye of Bob Woodward. Rumor has it they're working on a series about President Gore's private life that he believes will net them their seventh joint Pulitzer Prize.

The Republican Party declared bankruptcy, moral and financial, some months back, and was formally dissolved.

America and DU survived, bruised and battered.

Is this a great country or what?

[Jazz2006]

65. Now, THAT's funny!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:toast:

[RagAss]

33. Fantasy Island or what????.....

No Indictment....No Nothin.....as a matter of fact this bastard was more active in Washington this week..
and more in the news since the time he led the Repugs to the fucking ass kicking they gave us in 2004....


let's face it...by the time he's done painting the Dems as terrorist supporters this summer.....we should be thankful if they let us live !!!


Wake the frig up....Fitz my ass....

[tridim]

34. Can anyone find a picture of Rove newer than May 15th?

Seems like that's the last time he was photographed, and he was photographed a LOT on that day.

[MADem]

69. He was up on the Hill two days ago, but it was a private meeting

with the GOP. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060517/ap_on_go_co/immigration_75

WASHINGTON - President Bush dispatched his political adviser, Karl Rove, to Capitol Hill to pitch skeptical Republicans in the House the idea of letting many illegal immigrants stay and to reassure them about better securign the U.S.-Mexico border. .....

[tridim]

78. At least that's what was reported

It might have happened, then again it might not have.

I take it you get my point.. He hasn't been seen by the press since Monday. Considering his predicament, you'd think they'd have lots of cameras out there trained on his piggy face.

[Drum]

36. *yawn*

[onenote]

38. My Ode to Thread 17

Well she was just seventeen
You know what I mean
And the way she looked
Was way beyond compare
So how could I dance with another,
Oh, when I saw her standing there

[Jigarotta]

39. The titles are getting even shorter, we lost Rove!

According to Garp...
?

[Stevendsmith]

42. Another Leopold Classic: Fitz spent "15 hours" at Patton Boggs

What a fucking joke!

[Moloch]

46. Don't forget....

as another DUer pointed out, it says in various paragraphs of the article that this alleged meeting was half a day/15 hours/the whole day.

If someone is going to make up a news story, they should at least not make it so obviously fictional.

[Stevendsmith]

48. Oh, lord! (n/t)

[The Straight Story]

74. Were those business hours?? :) (nt)

[RagAss]

49. Right...where's the big apology to DU ??????

Some of us are waiting since our posts have been paraded out there under the Post "DU ASSHATS"


I've been in this fucking clown suit since last week.....

[Stevendsmith]

50. The apology will occur in 15 hours (i.e., 24 business hours). (n/t)

[Snivi Yllom]

55. 15 Fitzmas hours

.

[Stevendsmith]

57. 15 percent of one dog year (n/t)

[Azathoth]

58. Leopold's spokesman just announced that there will be no apology this week

Apparently, Jason has spent most of the day in the vet's office with his cat...

[MADem]

64. So, is that a week? Or Italian work hours during the August vacation?

That leaves a month for us to wait!

I never got a clear response to my request for the definition of a business hour, I was simply told that it was explained with a quick Google--no help there--and I should believe!

[RagAss]

66. How about a Friday night apology....?????

save us the bullshit going into the weekend....

[Ladyhawk]

112. I would certainly appreciate an apology, but that won't be enough

to restore Leopold's credibility.

I also admit that this story is one of the reasons I haven't donated to DU this quarter. Number one reason: I'm broke. Number 2 reason: This place is going to positively implode over this issue. There will be Truthout-right-or-wrong factions and Shame-on-Truthout factions and pro-Will factions and anti-Will factions and pro-Leopold factions and anti-Leopold factions. There will be everything in-between. This place is a fucking powder keg waiting to happen. Guess where Ladyhawk ain't going to be when that happens? You bet.

I feel a little ashamed for blindly trusting this story in the first place. I should know better than that, Truthout and name-recognition be damned. From now on I pledge to be even more skeptical.

[deansyawp]

52. It really

astounds me, though I suppose it shouldn't, that they still have the story up over there, front and center, without comment, like some big old turd in the punchbowl that nobody has the decency to at least take away from the serving table.

How long is it going to stay there like that I wonder?

[Stevendsmith]

61. Turd in the punchbowl! LOL!!

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

73. Oh, boy, toilet humor!!! Here's some more!

It has its place, at times!

[JeffR]

That's more miraculous than Jesus on a grilled-cheese sandwich!

:rofl:

[tritsofme]

54. How many more of these silly threads will there be?

Obviously there will be no way for any Rove indictment in the future to be related to the Leopold/Pitt story.

[RagAss]

56. Until there is an apology.......from TO to DU

[Seabiscuit]

97. In which case, these threads will NEVER end. EVER!!!

:eyes:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

Now that's scary.....

Hold me.

[Laurab]

60. Just a note to OLL Re. a previous post

as I couldn't respond in the previous thread. Yes GLEE. Thread after thread of Glee, making fun of Truthout, Jason, and just having a grand old time belittling them thread after thread.

You can call it what you want, I call it glee and mean-spiritedness, and a lot of other things.

What amazes me is that people expect Will Pitt to come on here and apologize or explain. Maybe he doesn't want to spoil a good party. Maybe he has something to share, but doesn't want to start up another flame war. No matter WHAT he had to say, it wouldn't be good enough. That's been clear from the start.

Me, I'm adding a second person to my ignore list - the one who seems to be enjoying this the most, and leaving the rest of you to your celebration. Enjoy it. Enjoy making fun of fellow DU'ers, enjoy thinking up how clever you can be to outdo each other in doing it. It's a small party, but it seems you're all having a great time.

Simple things amuse simple people I guess, since the threads continue on with all the great sarcasm and jokes, at the expense of others who are (I think), on the same side as you are. I just don't get a real good feeling bashing people, unless it's someone involved with * and his cronies, but, to each their own.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

70. I'd like to see those "glee" threads,

or, if you tell me where to find them, I'll get to them myself.

In the meantime, I hope things go better for you and that your venting here, using me as a vehicle, made you feel better.

I wish you well, and have a good weekend.

[MADem]

80. No, it isn't glee--it's anger, irritation, and a righteous demand for an

explanation that isn't tinged with cries of "traitor" for those who aren't swallowing their story, or mocking anyone who asks for more information. Anyone who questioned the story caught hell for so doing. Then, come to find out, the "reporter" has a dubious record with both the truth AND accuracy, and the site owner here gets called a "cretin" for all his hard work.

I do think Will Pitt should come here and EXPLAIN. Or do it at TO, whatever. He can start by telling us how Mr. Leopold was vetted before they hired him, how they checked his three, five, or is it seven "sources," if they knew he had a habit of sockpuppetry, was canned by SALON for sloppy, innacurate writing AND plagarism, and while he's at it, he should correct the "story" (more like a tale) on his website.

Go have a look at some of the older threads, where people asking simple questions like "Why was 24 hours changed to 24 BUSINESS hours?" or "What IS a business hour?" were declared to be insufficiently liberal because they didn't "believe in" the dubious Mr. Leopold or Truthout.

It's unfortunate that, by their silence, Truthout seems to be living up to their name, and tossing the truth out. The clock is indeed ticking--if they want to recover their reputation, they have to do what SALON did, and come clean. And if they don't do it soon, they'll not recover.

[Snivi Yllom]

109. additionally, small internet news sources are more nimble than MSM

They should be able to take their news directly to the masses, and be swiftly accountable if they make a mistake. Especially in comparison to traditional MSM corporate media whores who must dot every I and cross every T.

Whether it's Truthout or any other site. They have the ability to be quick and have no corporate editorial board guarding the gates.

They should be transparent.

[Snivi Yllom]

113. put it this way, if noone wants to give a straight serious answer

I see nothing wrong with making light of a bad situation. The writers brought it on themselves.

[DoYouEverWonder]

62. Until Fitzgerld makes his next public announcement

we don't know who was right and who was wrong.

I'd like to see what he does next before we decide to crucify anybody.

[RagAss]

68. In the meantime .... We've ben Crucified UPSIDE DOWN ... !

[RagAss]

72. Who needs Truthout....We can make up the fucking news !!!!!

[lala_rawraw]

75. I think TO

Has provided years of value and existed long before Jason, regardless of your feelings about him. This attacking of TO is ruthless and ugly and frankly is the saddest thing I have had to watch.

caution - rant starting -

On one end there was celebrations without emotional restraint at all, despite caution to see what happens, because while no one else could yet confirm it, it did not make the story wrong, nor by virtue of it being a story somewhere did it make the story true. On the other side there was immediate take down. Byron York was ready within hours as was the right wing blogs - with a lot of help from the left - to take down Leopold, TO, Pitt, Ash and everyone in a 50 mile radius. Again they were told to wait and see, because despite no one else having been able to confirm this story, did not make it false, nor it being a story somewhere did not make it true. In other words, it was an extreme reaction on all sides.

Then whatever the fixed time was - that an announcement would come this week, the celebratory side began to turn its hysteria into bile and the other end began to dig their claws in even deeper in celebration or in disappointment of TOs failure.

I have not seen such ugliness since Gary Webb's take down, despite him being proved right later. The assumptions now coming in are either TO/Leopold/Ash/Pitt lied on one end or pure glee that they have failed on the other, regardless of whatever the reason is for that failure. I see no joy or have the heart to find even satire funny in any of this. TO has been around for years and has served the liberal community well and in the end, no matter what happens, they were failed on all sides in my humble opinion.

We don't know what happened and I agree that IF someone is wrong, they should retract or correct. God knows we at RS have corrected much from spelling errors to wrong names, and dates, to a few bigger issues. But we have never put out a cooked story and i don't think anyone would willfully do so (despite the straw men over and over to stories we never wrote being attributed to us as proof of our bad reporting at RS - 22 indictments sound familiar?). In order for Leopold to have created this as a hoax, one would have to believe that Ash and Pitt were in on it. Somehow, I just don't buy that. The irony is that every MSM journo I have talked to in the last week - many - have all hoped for it to pan out because everyone agreed that this was going out on a limb and was a deal-breaker if wrong. But no one was determined to attack TO. They were all working in the background quietly trying to confirm the story and no one that I have talked to today is laughing or rejoicing or even commenting publicly on what we all see as either a tragedy or whatever it turns out to be in the end. It has been the so called grassroots that has done the damage and even if the story is proved right, the blows delivered are fatal.

Consider the piece that Jason did for Salon, which they retracted, was later proved true in the end. Did anyone put the story back and issue a formal apology? Does anyone remember the piece being proved right in the end? No, what they remember is that Salon pulled the story. The damage this time is fatal and you can all thank yourselves for helping to bring it about.

What we know is that we know nothing about what happened or did not happen. What I know is that Leopold flew to DC last night because he wanted to attend the press conference - the one that did not come. I have not heard from him since and I cannot begin to imagine what he must be going through.


I don't know what happened. And yes, as said over and over Jason has a drug past and all the ugly things that he himself has come clean on. He never hid these things and he wrote about them not to celebrate them but to show himself to himself. No one could be proud of what is in his book. I know he is not. His parents are not. His wife is not. But he had to do it for himself and he is being judged on that as well.

The truth I know about Jason is no secret: I know that he will do anything to get a scoop: screw over other reporters, and can sometimes fuck over sources, whatever it takes, he will do it. I have never made it a secret that this bothers me and that I find it unethical. But I have never seen him cook a story - not during the three months I worked with him last year, not prior to those three months - and not after those three months. I shared some bylines and so on some stories I was aware of his sources at that time as was my editor. Plus I had my own sources. So I can vouch for the stories that we co-authored. I cannot vouch for this story. I don't know what happened at TO, but I cannot believe that they would risk everything on a story so detailed only to be discredited permanently. Would you? There is no reason to assume they cooked this story. I am sorry, but I cannot believe it unless there is more evidence that comes out to support such a claim.

Yes, Jason has an ugly past full of drugs and theft. But everyone deserves a second chance and somehow I thought that is what progressives/liberals stood for.

TO needs to look through this situation and do an internal investigation to see what went wrong, if anything went wrong. Was this a set-up? I could have been if Jason was using sources that had an agenda, which would explain the ready made York response. Could this have been writer error? No. It was too detailed and too easy to confirm or discredit the basic facts, which in some cases has already been done. Was this source error? Maybe. Was this writer/source error? Probably, but still, the level of detail would suggest that the sources would have to be wrong on many counts and no one makes that many mistakes in error. I agree that Ash needs to issue a statement indicating that he is exploring what may have happened and if need be, retract the story. I also agree that that if this was a setup, the good faith relationship is no longer valid and the reporter has an obligation to out the sources for what they are. What I cannot agree with or even respect is what happened this week and the feeding frenzy the likes of which I hope never to see again.

To turn on TO for that error, if it was an error, to celebrate this tragedy, and discount every good thing that TO ever did is simply why i think we have the press we have in the MSM... Why should journos in the MSM bother going out on a limb if this is what type of support they can expect? Why should anyone go out on a limb anymore?

This is not a story I would have worked on because frankly I don't give a rat's ass when Rove is going to be indicted. When it happens, it will be news. That is why I have stayed away from Rove indictment stories (although many people claim I wrote zillions of them). Until then, we have much too much to worry about to care when and how and why and if he was or may have been or what not. But that is the story they have, regardless of the need for it. They have this story and they risked everything for it.

But going forward, why should anyone risk anything when the only people being asked to make a sacrifice are the sources and reporters, while the readership sits on the sidelines in stoic judgment focusing on tiny details in everything and determined to see someone fail at every turn?


Why? Honestly, this week should give any writer in the alternative/free/small press a reason to consider changing tracks. Do any of you think that the tiny sum made by indie journos, which in most cases is less than what top bloggers make, is the reason they do what they do? I have seen some prominent blogs become something so ugly this week, it is a wonder they can call themselves liberal or progressive now. As for me? I did not file a story this week because honestly, I did not have the heart - first time since I have been writing - to inform the public anymore. I hope that changes, but for now, all of you deserve the press you have because you will not fight for the press you want. This is a sad state of affairs for all of us.

end of rant and sorry if it seems rude. i don't mean to be:(

[JeffR]

81. You're not being rude at all

But you should read response #80. It sums up what a lot of people feel about this.
:)

[Taxloss]

84. There are a few problems.

For a start, barring miracles, what Leopold wrote was definitively wrong. Wrong in detail and wrong in broad scope. Rove may yet be indicted - but that's been floated since October, and it wouldn't exonerate Leopold.

Second, there's the way some DUers handled the story, reacting to natural doubts from other by posting lengthy drunken flame-filled rants about betrayal. That was the point where the naysayers flicked off the safety catches and went for it - it seemed that some DUers expected everyone to pay homage to TruthOut regardless of whether it was right or not. And a lot of us thought, fuck that.

[arwalden]

102. Homage?

Homage? You're all drunk! It's disgusting. Out! The lot, out!

Bursting in here with tales about oriental fortune tellers. Come on. Out!

Go and praise someone else's brat! Go on!

[sendero]

87. This is the part I don't get..

... do all the vultures around here think that Leopold made the story up, hoping to "guess" the timing? That's pretty far-fetched IMHO.

If you have a source, and a coroborating source, and they are credible with *you*, i.e. they have given you good info before, or you know of their position to know, why would you NOT run the story? What would you do, sit around and wait for an OK from the White House or the MSM?

Reading all of the vitriol and accusations here, one could conclude that the accusers have NEVER BEEN FOOLED ABOUT ANYTHING.

I'm anything but a Will Pitt rubber-stamper, but then again I'd never think for a second he'd be a party to an intentional fraud. People should think about what they are accusing him and Leopold of. It makes no sense.

[brentspeak]

95. Far-fetched?

It isn't far-fetched to think that Leopold made up the whole thing:

1) He literally has a background as a petty thief

2) He's been kicked off nearly every newspaper and web news blog he's been employed

3) He's admitted to using sockpuppets to post "Jason Leopold is correct" self P.R.

Why do you say it's "far-fetched"?

[CrackpotAmerica]

100. Self delete | Dupe

[Beetwasher]

88. Well Put

:thumbsup:

[MADem]

90. The piece that was at Salon was accurate, because it was plagarized

from FT. http://gnn.tv/articles/709/Media_Meltdown_The_Jason_Leopold_Saga


And then there's that sock puppet business: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/5/15/184318/243

Could his sock puppets be his sources?? You have to wonder. This guy isn't making mistakes like spelling names wrong or getting a date or a detail slightly off. He's copying the work of others, and using multiple identities on internet sites to create a following that backs him up.

That's not honest. Truthout is supposed to get the truth out, not toss it out.

[lala_rawraw]

93. I was making this point...

"A GNN investigation into the whole mess has revealed that Leopold has had trouble in the past producing verifiable sources. In the case of the White story, the source for the email at one point denied having spoken to Leopold, which Salon used as its pretext for withdrawing support for the story. However, a GNN interview with the Times’ Krugman, whose editorial ignited the controversy, has lent additional credibility to Leopold’s version of the story, and may just help to salvage a brave, if imperfect, reporter’s reputation."

[MADem]

108. Well, they shouldn't put the story back, since almost 500 words were

taken almost verbatim from FT without attribution. That's not sloppy, that's cheating. There's no way to polish it...the guy takes shortcuts, rips other people off, and we're supposed to feel sorry for him with a track record like that?

Brave and imperfect, sure, ONCE. ...Leopold has had trouble in the past producing verifiable sources ok, fine, cut him some slack, naughty boy, don't do it again. But this guy is demonstrating a track record, with his three, five, seven sources, and with his history of that sock puppet business, one is naive not to wonder.

He isn't doing Truthout any favors, assuming they were duped by him. He's in the wrong line of work. There's a right way to report, and a wrong way. Stealing other people's intellectual property without attribution, dodgy sources, and posting under multiple names to advance your position isn't the right way...IMO. He's just not believable.

[Lerkfish]

91. thank you, well spoken.

[kma3346]

96. This is a great rant

And I agree 100 percent. I also think that more people on DU agree with you than disagree. It's just that there is a loud and relentless contingency that keeps up the attacks. I wasn't on DU (or even up on politics that much) when Gary Webb was around, but from everything I've heard about him, he was a true hero. It seems to me that some people really want what happened to Dan Rather to happen to Jason Leopold. Wasn't Dan Rather set up as well? It would be interesting to see who Leopold's sources (more more likely, who the sources' sources) were....

In any case, thanks for the heartfelt words. I, for one, appreciate the tireless efforts of people like yourself, Leopold, Pitt, and the countless others who are searching for (and writing about) the truth in this era of governmental secrecy, corruption, and criminal activities.

[Cameron27]

101. Judgemental reader here

<But going forward, why should anyone risk anything when the only people being asked to make a sacrifice are the sources and reporters, while the readership sits on the sidelines in stoic judgment focusing on tiny details in everything and determined to see someone fail at every turn?>


When was the readership of a news story ever expected to worry about the sacrifice of the sources and reporters. I don't know Jason Leopold, Will Pitt, or Truthout, and frankly I wasn't basing my opinion around any of their mistakes in the past.

This was a "big scoop" a motherload of a "big scoop." It was written poorly, handled poorly and completely fizzled. That's what I, as a reader, judge.

[Coexist]

125. thanks Lala - I have been measuring my words

and choosing not to post a lot on this topic.

It is sad.

[Alamom]

77. Curiosity about ABC's , The Note. GJ to meet today.

This was posted earlier today in another thread and nothing else was ever posted that I could find.

ABC had this listed in The Note, along with all the other scheduled stuff they post everyday that is going on in DC and around the country. Usually, reliable .......



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=156238

WASHINGTON, May 19
The Note
ABC News Political Unit


The grand jury investigating the CIA leak case is scheduled to meet at 9:30 am ET.




So what happened? Does anyone know? Did they cancel? ABC make a mistake?

Just curious........

[Semblance]

82. GJ

That GJ often meets on Wednesdays and Fridays because it deals with cases other than the Plame case.

Rove's spokesman today said that the GJ did not meet today.

[Alamom]

89. I realize that...the Note does state , GJ to meet on CIA Leak Case

The grand jury investigating the CIA leak case is scheduled to meet at 9:30 am ET.





Link?

Rove's spokesman today said that the GJ did not meet today.

[Semblance]

104. Talkleft

Link: http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html

[Alamom]

127. Oops, sorry. I saw this earlier and thought it was intended as a

joke.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html

Bump and Update: This just in from Karl Rove spokesman Mark Corallo
< via e-mail in response to a question *I e-mailed him >:

Nothing going on. I was told by several journalists who were down at the courthouse that the Grand Jury was not meeting today. Of course, the GJ may be meeting at the undisclosed location (as VP Cheney is out of town and not using it today...)

Thanks, Mark!


I couldn't find the original.....who's the *author? Do you know?



Edit to add sentence in brackets that didn't paste...odd.

[kstewart33]

86. They are ALWAYS scheduled on Wed and Fri.

It does not mean that they will meet. REPEAT AND RINSE.

And according to Jeralyn Merritt over at TalkLeft, they DID NOT.

The Note is extremely sloppy on this.

[Alamom]

106. Thanx. ABC "can be" extremely sloppy with their schedule and

a(potential) hit & run from the poster with the info from Rove's Spokesman.

[RagAss]

85. APOLOGY-CALYPSE NOW.....

[Stevendsmith]

92. The Four Horsemen of the APOLOGY-CALYPSE !

[Swamp Rat]

98. Down to the archives! ... AAAAAAAAUUUGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

:o :D



:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

103. Aauugh!

[brentspeak]

105. There is something positive that could come out this debacle

And that is it might persuade the DU admins to BAN any and all further such "magic bullet scoops" from these boards. The rumor-articles about impending Fitz indictments or whatnot disable all attempts to engage in reality-based political discourse. Plus, they distract people from more important matters should be talked about, as well as draw out the trolls, rabble rousers, and kooks from out the woodwork.

[MADem]

110. Well, that isn't really fair to the people who actually have a verifiable

story. We, the readers, have to take everything with a grain of salt, and question anything that doesn't sound right, as happened in this instance. And we can't let one sloppy apple spoil the whole bunch.

[brentspeak]

119. In that case,

all future "scoops-in-the-making" would be best placed in their own forum group, like the 9/11 issues have been. If and when a scoop turns out to be true, then (and only then) should that story be allowed on the Big Forums. (At least, that's how I would do it.)

[CrackpotAmerica]

107. Although I haven't been following these DU threads...

I think that a big part of it lies in the accusations of "do-nothingness" or "I do more than you-ness" that I had read in threads pre-leopold story.

I posted this thread in response to what I feel was the root of this upsetting DU trend:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=295722#304702

And this topic a few weeks back:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1077576

It's important for us to see ourselves as a diverse collective and not a competing group of egos. While the details may differ, the ultimate goal is clear, is it not?

Anyway, Skinner put it best here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1213428

Just my 2 cents anyway...

:)

[Coexist]

111. :::: FROM TRUTHOUT :::::

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/

By Marc Ash,

Fri May 19th, 2006 at 04:23:39 PM EDT :: Fitzgerald Investigation


On Saturday afternoon, May 13, 2006, TruthOut ran a story titled, "Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators." The story stated in part that top Bush aide Karl Rove had earlier that day been indicted on the charges set forth in the story's title.

The time has now come, however, to issue a partial apology to our readership for this story. While we paid very careful attention to the sourcing on this story, we erred in getting too far out in front of the news-cycle. In moving as quickly as we did, we caused more confusion than clarity. And that was a disservice to our readership and we regret it.

As such, we will be taking the wait-and-see approach for the time being. We will keep you posted.

Marc Ash, Executive Director - t r u t h o u t
mailto:[e-mail]

[texasleo]

114. that deserves its own thread

[Coexist]

115. I don't think it is allowed - I will leave it here unless I get permission

[CrackpotAmerica]

117. I second that..

I think it clears a lot of this up..

Thanks for posting!

On Edit: By clear things up, I mean that it offers something tangible from the original source.

(Geez) By "tangible," I mean something that one can see and not something that should be accepted..

Man O' Man, you gotta cover lots of bases to keep your head from being torn off..

[Semblance]

121. Huh?

Not only does it not clear anything up, it doesn't say anything at all.

[CrackpotAmerica]

128. It's a response..

Which is what people have been waiting for and opinions, like yours, can be based on because it now exists.

It doesn't solve anything, yes, but it clears up the problem with there being no further response from TruthOut about it.

:::

[annabanana]

118. "too far out in front of the news-cycle"

I don't know what that means.

[brentspeak]

123. It means

"we're trying to spin that we were completely wrong".

[Snivi Yllom]

124. non-apology, it's not a retraction

nothing has changed
they are digging themselves into a deeper hole

They also, have not pulled the story or the headline on the home page. They are standing by their story.

[onenote]

134. i think it means that they got out in front of reality

[MADem]

120. ????we erred in getting too far out in front of the news-cycle???

What in blazes does THAT mean?

We apologize for being ahead of the curve???

That's not helpful. It's a non-apology apology. I suppose it is a shred better than nothing, but it still does not address the fundamental issues; the 24 hour business, the lack of a verifiable indictment which was not said to be sealed in the report, or the issue of the three/five/seven sources and the baker's dozen set of eyes that supposedly vetted the work.

[Coexist]

129. actually, the 24 hour thing was addressed already

but y'all were more interested in having fun with the terminology than acknowledging that they explained that the 24-hours had nothing to do with anything.

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2006/5/17/125248/099
"THE 24 HOUR THING

We reported that Patrick Fitzgerald had, "instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order...." That does not mean that at the end of that 24-hour period, Fitzgerald is obliged to hold a press conference and make an announcement. It just means that he has given Rove a 24-hour formal notification. Fitzgerald is not obliged to make an announcement at any point; he does so at his own discretion, and not if it compromises his case. So we're all stuck waiting here. Grab some coffee."

[OldLeftieLawyer]

132. Another fiction

There is no "24 hour formal notification" rule. The whole "24 hours to get his affairs in order" thing was made up. Ask any lawyer.

[BlooInBloo]

133. That's a complete non-explanation of truthout's goalpost-moving

[BlooInBloo]

131. ROFL! They're just easing into a complete retraction...

... or so it appears to me...

[brentspeak]

135. This incident probably caused a civil war at truthout

There have to have been staffers at truthout who didn't want their site to have anything to do with Leopold or his "investigative reporting".

[Roon]

136. .......

[RoadRunner]

137. Locking

Thread 18 is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1239598