OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #12

[Lex]

From Skinner:

We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

----------------

Thread #11 link here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1234209&mesg_id=1234209

[diamondsndust]

1. even IF Leopold flat out lied.. GASP!.... NO ONE DIED!!! n/t

on edit: Thanks to DU'er LunaSea for the name Coyote One. The photoshop work is mine...

steal this image!

[Dufaeth]

8. Except Truthout n/t

.

[Sammy Pepys]

2. Anything new to keep up with?

Has truthout offered any kind of statement about coming forward with what happened if this doesn't pan out?

[stop the bleeding]

keep on rockin in the free world - wahoo this is fun n/t

[DS1]

3. Pie

[Strong Atheist]

14. Yep, it was the winner:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4385896

I like pie too...

[Raster]

19. Cake or death?

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

42. "Uh, death, please. No, cake! Cake! Cake, sorry. Sorry..."

;-) Love that man!

[theboss]

58. We're all out of cake

We only had three slices and didn't think there would be such a rush.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

103. Mr. OldLeftie just announced

"ICE CREAM!!!"

He's such a keeper, that one.

Bring the cake.

[Snivi Yllom]

4. Leopold's Twelve

[WiseButAngrySara]

5. Could someone give a recap of the most important issues on this

plethora of threads? For those with old-fashioned dial-up modems, whose computers can't take the lengthy threads?

New news?

Where is Fitz today?

24 hours LONG OVER.....

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

13. Sara.....Nothing Has Happened

If you had not been here to read anything this past week, you missed absolutely nothing.

If anything, be thankful you did not waste your time here. Nothing to see, move along. Just lots of rumors and lies, no truth to find.

Someday in the future, rove may be indicted, or he may not. But it ain't happening now, and sitting here waiting for it to is becoming a big time waster. I'm about to just give up hoping, and just wait.

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. Thanks OrangeCountyDemocrat! I was online all last weekend it seems,

and initially trusted Will and T.O. passionately...What a wringer that has been. I guess I should be glad that my computer disconnects every time I try to post on long threads!

I went to the DU Panic room yesterday, hoping that someone was posting there, but that wasn't the case. However one of the bloggers had mentioned that Will was no longer with T.O.? Surely this is not correct? They had him as a contributing author/editor of another progressive newsblog....

[OldLeftieLawyer]

80. You missed a lot,

but not what you might have expected.

It was a grand exercise in free speech, intolerance, rigid thinking, rational and experienced thought refused but never refuted, personal attacks in the name of defending the liar Leopold and the fool Pitt, and, in the end, we are all still DUers, and it will pass.

Ultimately, it was a tale of a fraud, and a supporter of the fraud who abused the trust and faith of good people, and how a fraud ended up shaming only himself. In the end, the people who believed the fraud and his enabler will be fine, and I hope they'll choose more wisely when it comes time to believe someone.

That's about it. Free speech is still safe here at DU.

[Snivi Yllom]

15. no Truthout retractions

that would be news

[WiseButAngrySara]

30. IMHO, that is the very LEAST that Leopold owes everyone (including

Pitt and T.O.) for this most recent fiasco, in his seeming history of false and/or plagiarized articles! Maybe he thought that he could hedge his bets, and falsify info. to bolster sales of his book, which according to Symbolman, would only have him confessing that he not only outed his sources, but has made false claims in the past?

[symbolman]

52. Just for clarification I'm not the only one who said that, but I did

and all I know I've gotten from search engines.. many of the links had both sides of the story, so you could make up your own mind.

But TO and Raw Story both said that they'd had that info up front, so whether they or I or anyone else mentioned the links they'd find the same info I saw.

Part of the info was that he was writing it all up in a Book, an autobiography NEWS JUNKIE, and he apparently was trying over the past few years to redeem himself.

It's all on the web, and I knew the same as anybody.

I've said it downthread and I'll say it here - Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater - TO has done a lot of the progressive heavy lifting for a LONG TIME, and just because Leopold may have blown it, does not make any of TO's other work suspect.


Go read H2OMan's writings here as well, good read.

[WiseButAngrySara]

77. I have never given up on Pitt or T.O.! I have read other threads r.e.

Leopold's past, and I'm sorry if it looked as if all was attibuted to you; yours were the ones I remembered with the most clarity. (And I think you had posted a long time ago, maybe in relation to the Target Letter? I think it was around the time of the numerous celebratory posts during Colbert's WH Corresp. dinner...)

I did read H2O Man's thread. It is excellent, as usual, but believe me, I have been through each and every point in his logical plan of inference.

Sources need to be outed by Leopold this weekend, or later this afternoon, or this entire episode just gets more ludicrous, IMHO.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Is Fitzgerald in D.C. or not today?

[savemefromdumbya]

24. obviously isn't

not a peep out of him

[Tinksrival]

7. FITZ!!

[Catherine Vincent]

11. :-)

:thumbsup:

[BeatleBoot]

9. Hello, I'm a Verbal Pinata !

Go look at rawstory.

developing re: CIA Leak Case

Bash away!!!!!

[WiseButAngrySara]

12. It's not a NEW or a RAW story. Old news. ....n/t

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

10. I Plan To Take Weekend Off

Instead of wasting anymore time watching and hoping for some false report to be posted on the "internets," I'm going to turn off DU and the other liberal sites for the weekend. This has become too big a time waster, and obviously is making me feel less optimistic, and like I've been lied to by my own. There might be some backpeddling by Truthout, and I'm sure I can wait until next week to read about it.

I figure it will be another few weeks or months before anything happens to rove, if ever. I'm not going to allow myself to be led astray again, or believe that some salvation is around the corner, when it obviously is not.

[Catherine Vincent]

16. Just relax and have fun.

Don't let yourself get all hyped up. It'll happen when it happens.:)

[Sammy Pepys]

18. I usually put aside DU and others on the weekend

But if something does happen I'll be here.

Otherwise, I'll be hanging out with my guitars.

[symbolman]

60. Got a borrowed CRYBABY I'm playing with this weekend :)

Picked up a set of Roland V drums, got the bass right here, and a nice Taylor acoustic - just about ready to quit all things political and use the digital deck to make my album -- actually they're called CD's these days, eh? :)

[rodeodance]

29. you just gave me a grand idea. thanks.

[billybob537]

32. Wait for it

4:30 fri.

[Common Sense Party]

40. 4:30 Friday? Maybe. That's what I was wondering. But if not?

Then what? If it's next week? After Memorial day? Next month?

I think most people are so emotionally invested in this that their hearts can't hold on that long.

And if it happens next week, what happens to Leopold's credibility?

[H2O Man]

17. Once again,

and I hope none of my friends on DU minds if I post this again ...


The Walrus Was Paul!

I've been avoiding the arguments about Jason Leopold/Will Pitt/Truthout and the claim that Karl Rove was indicted last Friday for a number of reasons. I had hoped against reason that a couple of my contributions would have helped keep the discussions from degenerating to the level we witness on the new series of threads that Skinner has set up, apparently to try to add some structure to the said foolishness. Perhaps the next step -- and I say this in all seriousness -- would be for Skinner to create two threads, because there is very little meaningful discussion going on.

If a person were to step back from this picture, and to attempt to take an objective look at the "controversy," it is not hard to create a structure that allows a clearer view of what may have happened last week. So, those who are interested, let's step back out of the frame for a minute.

First, we should identify what the picture is of: there was reportedly a grand jury hearing that examined the role of Karl Rove in the Plame scandal. Between Friday and Saturday, a couple of reports on Truthout (which were linked to, on DU) by Jason Leopold stated that sources close to the investigation had said Rove had told White House co-workers he expected to be indicted, and then stated he had been indicted.

Now, the first question, which has but two possibilities, is: did Jason have sources? For the sake of this exercise, we will stick to two sources, which seems to be what originally was implied. The choices are simple: yes, he had sources; or no, he had no sources.

If the answer is yes, then the question is: were they "good" sources? Were they connected, in any significant way, to the investigation? (If the answer was no, of course, there is no need to examine the picture.)

Next, if he had two sources, did they: tell him what they had heard? Or did they purposely lie to him? If they told him what they believed was true, one should consider who their sources were? Were they basing their position on a reliable source? Did they have separate sources, or were their sources connected at the roots? Was what they reported accurate? And, again, if they purposely lied to Jason, there is no need to continue.

Now we look at Jason: did he hear them correctly, and report what they said accurately? Did he not understand exactly what they said? Did one say one thing, and the other say something that was a little different, but which appeared to support the other? Or did Jason ignore what they said to him, and put forth a lie?

From Jason, we go to Will Pitt. There are, I think, only two choices here: did Mr. Pitt purposely lie to DUers by taking a stance in support of Leopold? Or, was he being as honest in his advocating for Jason? If he was being honest, then there are two more "sub-" choices: was his work as editor the high quality work that DUers should expect -- indeed, demand? Or might he have made errors that can happen when one is looking at a situation that very few people are really familiar with?

Finally, two other factors we should consider: there were reports that both Larry Johnson and Joseph Wilson had been told the same thing about Rove that Mr. Leopold reported. In fact, Larry posted his position on DU.

I suspect that using this simple "structure," we could come pretty close identifying what most DUers believe about this situation. We might even be able to narrow down what actually is most likely to have happened. I think that people could have a variety of opinions, without there being any reason for the ugly fighting that has been taking place.

Finally, I would be remiss if I did not remind people that one should consider not just "how ?," but "why ?" as well. For those who understand "why" always master those who are limited to "how." Why would some people tend to believe Rove has been indicted a week ago? Why would others believe otherwise? And, perhaps most important, why would some people feel the need to attack other people for believing something different that they do?

Gandhi said that "intolerance betrays a want of faith in one's cause." It may be that some are convinced that creating quarrels and dissent furthers their cause.

[stop the bleeding]

20. don't mind at all

thank you ;)

[Sydnie]

28. Thank you n/t

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

34. Rational Explanation

Thanks for that H2OMan. But that's not really the point.

When you state something as FACT, and you repeatedly say you Stand By Your Story, and you Stand By Your Sources, and everybody in your organization, right up to the Editor, states that you Stand By Your Story, and that everyone will apologize to you in the end, and that you are TRUST and JUSTICE, and would never tell a lie.....and you repeat that you STAND BY YOUR STORY, and you STAND BY YOUR SOURCES, then you should be held accountable.

The end result is either what you said, partially what you said, or 0% what you said. The criticsm thus lies in the eventuality.

As of now, Leopold & Pitt are at 0% Truth, and 100% Mistakes, at best. 100% Lies & Deception to gain some sort of following, at worst. And the fact they even have a following, when this story is still at 0% correct, is a sign that they have somehow gained. Heck, if King george can even be proud of his 35% rating, then a site like Truthout can be proud they have people worshiping and waiting on their every word, even if their every word turns out to be 100% wrong.

[Catherine Vincent]

38. You said:

"..Truthout can be proud they have people worshiping and waiting on their every word,"

People should never make that mistake. I haven't really seen that here though.

[Common Sense Party]

44. I have.

There is a clearly defined line between cautiously optimistic/supportive and blind faith. Many have crossed far onto the latter side.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

45. Just The Fact We're Talking About It...

Shows that the worshiping and waiting on their every word is in fact a reality. So far 0% of their story has proven to be true. They gave every perception that it would be a done deal This Week. It has changed several times, but I figured I could give it until This Week. Well, This Week is almost over. Still Nothing!

They were at best, Wrong. At worst, they were deceptive and trying to take a risk and boost their ratings, even though they knew they were on a limb.

So, I'm either believing incompetents, who were led on by phony sources, or I'm supporting people intentionally lying to me. Either way, does not make me feel different. If I'm not willing to believe something I hear on MSM, because they've been wrong before, I can't turn around and believe someone from my own side who betrays or fibs to me. Turnabout is fair play.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. Well I've always said I would wait until I hear from Fitzgerald.

When I first saw all the Leopold scoops, I didn't get all that excited because I had never heard of this guy before. (Now if it was Olbermann writing this on his blog, that would be another story). I didn't mind them and thought it was good news, but I still wanted to hear from the big dog himself...and that is Fitz.

Sorry that you (and others) didn't do the same.

[WiseButAngrySara]

64. Thanks H2O Man; the vox du raison. Belated Happy Birthday; the thread

was too long the other day for me to post without my computer shutting down, as I'm on dial-up. (Vox du raison=voice of reason, but I think I'm mixing languages! Vox is L., the rest Fr?)

More Gandhi quotes:

"There is more to life than increasing its speed."

"I had either to submit to a system which I considered had done an irreparable harm to my country, or incur the risk of the mad fury of my people bursting forth, when they understood the truth from my lips."

DU as of late, has become 'mad and furious!'

[theboss]

71. That's a fun philosophical exercise but unnecessary

If the Washington Post ran a story that said "Ted Kennedy arrested on drunk driving charges in Boston last night" and it turned out a week later that there was no arrest record, no witnesses, and proof that Ted Kennedy was actually in Florida at the time...well...we would not be discussing "what we really believe" about the story.

We would be calling for the managing editor's scalp and rightly so.

This is the problem with the blog/message board/alternative media world. It's too chummy and too concerned with feelings.

Truthout apparently misreported a fact, and facts are stubborn things. It misreported a fact on a very powerful Republican in a very high-profile case. And then it's face (known here as Will Pitt) came here and attacked anyone who dared raise an eyebrow.

If Truthout considers itself a real news outlet, it needs to be less concerned with "truth" and more concerned with "facts." Because apparently, the truth can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. (Karl Rove's heart may or may not be made of a tar-like substance). But facts is facts.

I don't care where this story went off the rails. It's not my job to figure that out. That is up to Leopold, Ash, Pitt, and the rest of the TO gang.

They attempted to scoop the mainstream media. And it looks like the failed mightily.

Because, as I said, facts are stubborn things.

(By the way, where the hell is Will?)

[grytpype]

22. Steve Clemons on Jason Leopold!

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001399.php (scroll down)

Have you been able to confirm/refute what Jason Leopold reported last week about Rove being indicted? If so, can you tell us when the Rove indictment will come down?
Posted by: Sylvia I at May 19, 2006 11:15 AM

sylvia -- i have not been able to confirm jason leopold's story. all that i have been able to find is that there was quite a lot of activity at patton boggs -- but i don't know whether fitzgerald was there -- or whether this implied rove indictment -- or whether it was about luskin's own role. but the highly specific points offered by jason are things i have been unable to get at.

steve clemons
Posted by: Steve Clemons at May 19, 2006 11:42 AM

So what happened is... Jason heard (like a lot of people) that there was a lot of activity at Patton Boggs and filled in the rest from his imagination, so if he guessed right and Rove was in fact indicted, he could take credit for breaking the scoop.

[titoresque]

31. Bullshit!

This isn't like throwing $20 bucks into a slot machine. This is the guy's career at stake. I'm sure he knew that.

My guess is that either he's got the story correct. Or his sources were put in place for possibly a lengthy period as to seem trustworthy and then fed him bullshit info so as to destroy any credibility Truthout has well earned.

Either way....The MSM cannot be trusted. I'm sticking with Truthout.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

35. If He Was Led Astray

If his sources were in place to fool him, and he has been fooled, then his is a Fool himself. And we are Fools for believing him.

That's just the way it is. You're either right, or you're wrong. People make mistakes. Some are bigger than others. Some mistakes are intentional, others are not, but in the end, there are usually consequences.

Should he be brought in front of a firing squad? Of course not. Should he be drawn and quartered? Nope. But should we believe him again, or waste time reading his stories or so-called "scoops?" Absolutely Not! He becomes no better than the MSM, whose lies, intentional or not, are also a huge waste of time and mental activity.

[brentspeak]

143. Correction: only a few of the people here are fools for believing him

And given what we now know about Leopold's use of sockpuppets, a lot of those Leopold-true-believers might very well have been Leopold himself.

[Marie26]

144. Sockpuppets?

For real?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

83. You think there were sources?

What's to prove that Leopold didn't fabricate the sources, just like he fabricated the story?

And, his threat to "out" them if the story proved untrue is about as bad a piece of attempted professional journalism as I've ever heard of. If he didn't do the legwork to verify the sources, didn't triangulate each piece of information from each source, the blame and responsibility are his, not the "sources."

The guy's a stone amateur without a clue.

[JackORoses]

139. hey oldrightie,

how are things over at the offices of Patton Boggs?

boy did they get a winner when they hired you.

[brentspeak]

137. I don't think Leopold had much of a career left, anyway

When even RawStory fires you, you know your journalism career is over.

[Snivi Yllom]

49. BINGO

So what happened is... Jason heard (like a lot of people) that there was a lot of activity at Patton Boggs and filled in the rest from his imagination, so if he guessed right and Rove was in fact indicted, he could take credit for breaking the scoop.

Leopold figures, the current GJ term is almost over and has pretty good odds on being right regarding Rove getting indicted. Leopold hears some rumors of big stuff happening at Patton Boggs. BTW the same rumors are spread wildly, and get to Wilson, Johnson, etc through multiple third and 4th hand sources.

Leopold and Truthout concoct a wild story, INTENTIONALLY taking a chance to hit a story big, even though they know the story is horribly sourced. The potential payoff is big.

For whatever reason, Will Pitt hitches himself to the story as gospel, either because he is easily sold, someone does a number on him and fools him, or he too decided to take a chance and pushes a story he KNOWS is poorly sourced.

---------------------------

What I typed above is looking more and more plausible by the minute. I could be wrong, but in the absence of a further, and might I add critically needed, update on this story from truthout or Will Pitt, this is all I have to go on.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

81. Gee

A lot of activity at a great big law firm.

Yeah, that's REAL news.

Jesus. How lame are some people?

[Marie26]

112. He Guessed?

:eyes: Lord. That sounds exactly right. They rolled the dice - and lost. Leopold made one last play to restore his career, TruthOut made a play to out-scoop the mainstream media, & they all hoped to benefit from the massive publicity. IMO, they deserve what they got here. Journalism isn't about stringing together some rumors & guesses into a story - it's about meticulous sourcing, research, & checking to find out the real facts.

[symbolman]

23. Truthout No Longer Listed w/ Google News

Found this on the TO site and checked into it, it's true.

If they brought in Leopold to build their site and bring in hits it was a mistake - Leopold is killing their site.. this is NOT good news for them.

*********

Truthout No Longer Listed w/ Google News

I have been trying to follow this story, and every link leads back to truthout.org

So I was surprised when I ran a search to find that truthout.org is no longer listed on Google News.

This has nothing to do with alogarithms.... this was a management decision at Google. I was not able to use the search function to find out when the de-listing happened.

I also did as much looking around today as time allowed to try to find out: did anyone else notice it and write about it, what possible reasons could Google have to de-list truthout.org?

Still looking for answers.

*********

I Looked further and found this.. they've been sent down the "Memory Hole" by Google..


*********

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=site%3Atruthout.org&btnG=Search+News

Went to news.google.com and typed into the box

site:truthout.org

Man, they are gone from Google, that's BAD. Sorry to see that..

Go there and type in

site:buzzflash.com and see what you get..

How long had TO been in the Google news Section, years?

[SidDithers]

27. That's bad news...nt

Sid

[Jigarotta]

76. o man, that sounds serious...

what the Hell?

[DoYouEverWonder]

109. What about DU?

I bet we don't come up on Google News either any more, even though in the past DU used to come all the time.

I think Google algarithmed us out a few years ago when we started getting too much attention.

Either way it doesn't mean shit to a tree.

[stellanoir]

25. You folks are cracking me up.

So in slightly more than 24 hours there have been at least 1200+ responses on nothing that we know of happening as yet.

Just prooves how totally starved we are for even a remote sense of justice these days.

Aaand now you can all resume your joyful though spurious speculations. :)

[benburch]

26. Well, it would appear that I need to eat some crow.

And I will.

http://www.themoderatevoice.com.nyud.net:8090/files/joe-eating_crow.jpg

Sorry, folks, at the present moment it would appear that I was taken in, as were the folks at TO, by Jason Leopold's story.

If that is the case my sincere apologies for having supported it.

I hope that TO can survive this mess.

-Ben

[symbolman]

39. You are an ethical person Ben

I admire you for taking a public stance on this, you got guts.

Like I said in a recent thread, let's not toss out the baby with the bathwater, TO has been doing a LOT of hard work for Progressives for a long time, and this episode should not make any of their other reporting suspect.

Good man, maybe you don't want to hear that from me, if you don't I would be sorry to hear it.

But you're honest and I thank you for it.

[benburch]

56. Thank you.

:-)

[Cooley Hurd]

41. I'm wondering if JL's story was true, but then Fitz went back and...

...brought Armitage before the GJ this week (or Armitage volunteered more info after last Friday) for add'l testimony? Could Rove have been indicted on one or two counts, but after the add'l Armitage testimony, the announcement was delayed to include another count?

I dunno, but things are fluid enough in the Plame GJ that TO and Leopold could've been correct, but something happened after last Friday that delayed the announcement of the indictment(s)?:shrug:

[benburch]

43. Anything is possible. nt

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

47. Maybe There's An Easter Bunny

Perhaps anything. But the bottom line is, no rove indictment announced this week. It's been another "false hope," in a string of "false hopes" for our side. I'm getting tired of it. Is there any way out? Is there any victory in sight? Can we ever win?

[Cooley Hurd]

53. I think, if this happens to be the case, TO is guilty of not recognizing..

...how fluid the GJ/indictment situation can be (and putting their necks on the line by announcing an imminent Rove indictment despite it).

BTW - it's called the Fitzer Bunny, now. ;)

[symbolman]

66. But as I recall Will Pitt DID say

that there is/are Indictments with the dates of May 12th on them, and they will be seen or presented to us.

Of this there is no doubt, I think it's one of his last updates.

That's pretty black and white.

[Cooley Hurd]

68. Yes, it is. Until we see the paperwork, all we can do is wait.

:hi:

[Snivi Yllom]

67. the FITZER BUNNY......or It's The Great Fitzkin Charlie Brown

both apply

[Garbo 2004]

93. Where is there info that Armitage brought back before the GJ?

I've certainly missed that if there's been such a report. Is that just your speculation?

I can see that Fitz could be holding an obstruction of justice charge over Rover trying to get him to plead, provide more info, whatever. I just don't see any evidence that Armitage is a recent active factor in the Plame case except for a recently published rumor that Inman's been promulgating and Clemon's sources shoot down.

[Jigarotta]

78. o ben, thanks.

you know, you're a gentlemanly kinda guy and I like that.
it's a sad day - even for a cynical old bag like me - I still let out an involuntary little whimper on this one.

but what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!
we should all be Charles Atlas' by now! lol

:hug:

[LeftNYC]

85. im right there with you Ben...

Leopold played me for a fool as well. In fact, he played it through one-on-one emails which he has been curiously silent from since Wednesday. We are owed an explanation. All of us are.

[Taxloss]

90. Ben, we all want it to be true.

I think none of us want TO to disappear either. I hope they find out what went wrong.

:hi: :hug:

[benburch]

91. I still hope they had it right.

But it clearly is not being announced today.

[kpete]

33. Raw story talks to Clemons...

Speaking to RAW STORY, however, Clemons said he'd heard nothing new on Rove. There are no indications that Rove will hear of a change in his legal status today.

more at:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Lawyers_discount_claims_Powell_aide_in_0519.html

[Connie_Corleone]

36. Well, that's that then.

Time to get ready for the weekend, folks.

I guess the retraction will be posted on TO by tonight??

[npincus]

37. Noon EST.... I don't think it's happening today, folks.

But Fitz is a man worth waiting for.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. Yes he is. You can read his message to us here: :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1222022#1224084

[Sammy Pepys]

48. Why is Raw Story....

...hawking fake absinthe on their site? C'mon guys, get with the program! :D

[benburch]

51. Huh? They are selling Pernod on RS?

I missed that somehow...

[benburch]

54. Oh! I see it now... Down in the ad column.

This is why I am so reluctant to accept ads on White Rose.

I have a blogad column, but so far have only accepted public service ads for it.

[Sammy Pepys]

74. hahaha...

in a way, that would be better than KoS.

Most of the reputable places don't advertise all that much though.

[Cooley Hurd]

57. Most of these sites have little control over advertising content...

Talking Points Memo had a situation recently in which, during their reporting of Hookergate, a DC Limo service (not Shirlington Limo, fortunately) was advertised in the middle of the story:



:rofl:

[hiley]

55. NRO Editorial Window on the Week - 5/19/06

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGY0NDk5NDU3NzMyNjM5ZGVhZWZjMWZkY2M1OGYzMDQ=

Psst. Here’s the news. Karl Rove has been indicted. It happened last Friday at his lawyer’s office in Washington. Patrick Fitzgerald was there, and so was Rove. They tried to make a deal, but in the end Fitz handed Rove the indictment and gave him 24 hours to get his affairs in order. It’s a huge story. Huge. But the right-wing MSM—you know, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the networks—are so in the tank for Bush that they’re covering it up. The only guy with the guts to report it is Jason Leopold at that website, truthout.org. But as soon as he did, the wing nuts—hacks like Byron York at National Review Online—started attacking him, saying Rove’s people are denying everything. Get this—they say Rove and Fitz weren’t even at that office at all on Friday. It never happened. Well, don’t believe it. Jason is a first-rate journalist—don’t buy all that stuff about his being fired for untrue stories or any of it. He’s got the sources—just ask Joe Wilson and Larry Johnson. Jason is right. You’ll see. Really

FROM http://www.nationalreview.com/
Edit to add:
THE EDITORS: Karl Rove, indicted! And much more from the week that was. “Window on the Week - 5/19/06” 05/19 7:52 AM
From the Home Page...


hmmm

satire or what?

[Snivi Yllom]

62. that's gonna leave a mark

[Cooley Hurd]

69. National Review is not credible on this...

...a swing and a miss. ;)

[npincus]

63. NRO is toilet paper for my cyber-ass

let's see snark there after Rove is indicted, an/or his indictment is announced.

[Catherine Vincent]

72. It's satire. They carry the water for republicans.

Something like that is expected from them. Doesn't Jonah Goldberg write for them?

[hiley]

75. Thought it was but, I never read NRO

:spank: not funny.

[SpecialK]

59. I just wish SOMETHING would break...

...so I can get some work done. Haven't done a damn thing all week!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

61. Dr. Fitzgerald is trying to excise a very large

and particularly nasty tumor. He doesn't have time to worry about what the observers in the gallery are thinking.

[npincus]

65. good metaphor

[symbolman]

70. Must be time for "The Scoop Nazi"

"NO SCOOPS FOR YOU -- ONE YEAR".. :)

Trying to lighten this up, tho it's pretty dreadful news.. Fuck NRO, they went after ME at Takebackthemedia.com as a Bush Hater, like that's not something I'd be PROUD of.. then that led to Drudge linking that I'd created a Nazi Submission for the MoveOn "Bush in 30 Seconds" contest, when I'd created that flash two years before that, and my real submission was called ARMY OF ONE, which outed Bush for his treatment of the Troops, Veterans and their kids..

Lot of 25 watt dimbulbs over there..

[Cooley Hurd]

73. *spit take*

:rofl::spray:

[Roon]

88. LOL

[stop the bleeding]

79. question?

do we know if the GJ is still meeting?

Do we have any word on this from the MSM or any DU'ers on the ground in DC?

just wondering I know they were suppose to be holed up at 9:30 this morning according to reports, are they still in there? If they are that is over 3 hours.

PS, yes I know the GJ could be meeting over something besides the CIA leak case, but I thought I should ask.

Thanks in advance to anyone who reponds.

[npincus]

84. it's hard to believe

with the level of interest in the lib/dem communtity, and lack of MSM coverage on the status of proceedings, that there is no one on the ground who might provide the most basic info...

[stop the bleeding]

86. I know, you would think that we would know this at the very least

I am waiting until later before I put my "Here's My Ass Come and Chew It Off/ Eating Crow" thread, but I have already started to put it together.

I will try to start it out on GD so everyone can take a whack, but I will also provide a link from these threads to there.

1) is the GJ still meeting?

2) Where are Will and Leopold in all of this?

[npincus]

115. advice (and it's free!):

hold the thread, and let it go. Rove's ass is grass, his goose is cooked, his WH days are numbered, he's a 'dead man' walking (metaphor!!!)... today, next week, the week after...

I support Leopold and Will. IF they have been misled, they've been misled by the champions of deception and dirty tricks. If they haven't been misled, there is more to this story that we won't know until it unfolds.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Living through these times of B*sh-Horror and waiting for justice is very, very stressful. We've made the reporters the story- and they're not. And our response to the reporters is not either. These treasonous bastards will see their day in court. And we will celebrate that day right on this message board!

:)

[symbolman]

99. I AGREE TOTALLY

THis is actually mind blowing.. even firedoglake was sitting there trying to cover whether the GJ met on WED and channel surfing, writing about it.. NOTHING..

There are HUNDREDS of reporters and NO ONE knows anything?

I smell something, and it is coming, but not today as I feel it..

[stop the bleeding]

104. symbolman

it is like I said in Hallibuton's Armitage thread out in GD at the Adults Thankisgiving table, " it's quiet almost too quiet" - he he he ;)

[KoKo]

145. Yep...got the same vibes as you...."The Sound of Silence" is Deafening.

Also the Byron York follow ups on this. Interesting he is the one who was given the job. (caveat: Maybe I've missed other attention by the right on this...but it seems National Review was given the task.)

Don't know what it all means...but there's something out there.

[kpete]

96. nothing, nada, nill, zero,

except for the Armitage news.

and believe me, I have been looking...

As for Truthout, Leopold and Will...

I cannot knock them for trying & am still hoping they are right.

I STILL TRUST THEM MORE THAN THE MSM!!!

[LeftNYC]

82. So I got played the fool...

i will admit it. I still think Rove will be indicted, but I dont think its happening today. Where is Leopold, Ash, and Pitt today? Curious silence.

[npincus]

92. I wouldn't say so just yet...

something is going on... the silence is deafening. Leopold has said he will out his sources if he has been duped. It is very frustrating (understatement).

Like the movie, "Groundhog Day", we keep waking up to the same thing-- status unchanged-- it feels like the 'next day' will never come, like events are standing still. But they're not... every extra day we wait, Fitz is lining his ducks in a row... there is a reason why the other shoe hasn't dropped-- he is methodical and his strategy is playing out now. Rove's goose is cooked and he knows it... so we all wait for his public disgrace.

(this is a pep talk for both of us!)

:)

[enough already]

100. When is the latest we might hear of the press conference today?

This is frustrating. I can't believe it hasn't happened yet. Is it possible somehow that Rove was indicted last week and he found a way to stop it?

[LeftNYC]

113. I am trying so hard to believe this

Rove will be indicted. Question is when? I dont think it is happening today.

[goclark]

87. I am late to the Bashing Party but here is my two cents

I am not the least bit interested in chewing up Progressive Reporters!

GW lied about the WAR and he is still in office.
The RepubliCONS tell LIES all day and they are still in charge.

One thing I do believe, LEOPOLD would have no reason to LIE.

So, I want to do what the RepubliCONS do on this one ~ hold and don't fold.

To me there is a big silver lining in this, the ROVER has been beating down all the rumors about why he is not being Frog Marched!

It has been hard for the ROVERCONS to stay on EVIL MESSAGE because the sweet LEOPOLD story keeps getting in the way.

I look at it as Pay Back and very ROVIAN in nature.

To me that is a good thing for our side, so let's just hold our cards and shut up about beating up our own.

[npincus]

94. I'm with you!

:toast:

[symbolman]

95. It's not a Bashing Party..

You should read this thread.

Leopold basically destroyed TO's ability to get NEWS OUT now.. Google dropped them from it's News search, gone.. that means that everyone is being sent by Google to Other sites and not TO..

TO has done some fine work, they don't need to be trashed by Leopold's sloppy work.

You don't have to lie to be full of shit. (and of course I'm not saying that about you, I'm referring to Leopold.)

[Goblinmonger]

97. I agree with you to a point

Leopold has a history of plagiarism and fabricating sources. In that regard, we need to realize that he is NOT one of our own. It appears that may be the case with this story, too. At the minimium, it is shoddy journalism and being "duped" by your sources.

"LEOPOLD would have no reason to LIE." Well, he's done it before.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

101. Do you honestly think

this tiny little tempest in an even tinier teapot has captured the attention of anyone but DUers?

It's a big world out there, my friend, and this - this is nothing.

I don't know what your "side" is, but on my side, people who lie and make up stories and abuse the trust and goodwill of others who have placed their faith in them ranks right up there with the liars in the White House.

Liars are liars, regardless of what political philosophy they embrace.

But, don't worry - this is such a blip, it means nothing, and, if anything, it was a really telling DU adventure in free speech and how some folks let their faith and trust be taken for a ride, and then blamed people who voiced differing opinions for their gullibility.

It's been really interesting.

And now it's over.

[novalib]

110. Someone Said

Someone said on another thread (#10?? #11??) that there had been a post on Capitol Hill Blue that quoted someone from Democratic Underground about a loss of support for Mr. Leopold.

So, yes, others are watching!

That's why I think it is important for those of us who still support William Pitt and Jason Leopold (and who would never suggest that either of those two decent human beings would EVER intentionally mislead us or lie to us) to continue to voice both our support and our thanks!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

120. Capitol Hill Blue?

That's about as credible as Jason Leopold.

Trust me. It's nothing. Now it's ended, and that's good. There should be apologies and mea culpae and some explanations, but I doubt that any of that will ever happen.

So, life goes on, and so does the good fight to take back America.

[Goblinmonger]

But Leopold has lied to us before

He plagiarized and falsified sources. So I would suggest that he would because it is a fact.

[novalib]

131. So, Just Because Someone Has Done Something In The Past....

So, simply because someone has made a minor mistake in the past, that means that they will do it again?

What sort of thought is that?

Are we never to let the things of the past go?

[symbolman]

142. I have a feeling that Jason might be right here on this thread

He's been known to act as a "sock puppet", create alter egos and screen names of all types to promote himself as well..

[tenshi816]

147. Oh, for heaven's sake, stop it.

Your posts in this matter make you sound as much like an unquestioning dittohead as any Rush Limbaugh fan, incapable of critical thinking at all. It's like you're doing an impression of what a wingnut wants to believe liberals are like, hoping to get similar, completely over-the-top responses to your posts so you can laugh about it later.

And nobody really takes anything posted at Capitol Hill Blue as gospel. Entertaining, yes, but not necessarily true.

[novalib]

102. What You Said!!

You said what I feel!

Thanks!!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

108. To your statement,

"LEOPOLD would have no reason to LIE," I must add that pathological liars never need a reason.

He's got the history - truth is not something that enters into this guy's consciousness.

He didn't need a reason. He just did. Because that's what pathological liars do.

[windbreeze]

133. I'm with you...n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

89. Im Rover Nichts Neues....

tick tock tick tock tick tock....

[Cameron27]

98. I don't see bashing today

OldLeftieLawyer and many others were fearless in defense of logical and experienced thinking....and that was what needed defending. I only posted a very small snippet about this on a long forgotten thread.

Today I don't see gloating or bashing, in fact I see graciousness.

Thanks OldLeftie

[benburch]

107. "Fearless" was more like rude.

I still cannot forgive what went way beyond reasoning and into personal attacks.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

111. You just can't stop insulting people,

can you?

Your apology did not go far enough, but I forgive you.

I wish you well, and hope your bitterness will not overcome the good that must reside within you.

You are, though, forgiven.

[LeftNYC]

118. No offense, but you cant seem to stop cramming it down

people's throats that they were misled, blah blah. Every post from you is more negative then the next.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

123. You're clearly not reading my posts

Otherwise, you'd not have written what you just wrote.

Your apology is accepted, too. To err as you did is something that people sometimes do when they don't know what else to do.

I understand.

You're forgiven.

[LeftNYC]

140. Um, how did I errr?

I dont believe Jason made this up out of the blue. He will need to explain, but I dont think he went off to just to go off.

I supported him and his site. They may be wrong, and I may have been misled, but I was defending him from some of the people who attacked him personally and just listened to what he had to say. I am interested to see how he responds.

[Gregorian]

127. Thanks for the rose.

They locked the other thread before I could edit my rather desparate post before you saw it. Not that there isn't truth to it. I've been living on edge partly because I'm selling my property. So it's to be somewhat expected. I'm trying to catch what I think is the last gasp of the wave. And have no idea where I will end up if I sell. It's daunting. So being here with such cool and wise folks is helpful. I've learned so much here.

Is that picture really of your mom? The one with the cigar? She reminds me of someone I once knew. Anyways, thanks. :)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

134. No, it's not Mom,

and you'll do fine with the property, and, yes, that rose was for you - one of my favorite photos that I took one day, testing a new camera.

So, exhale, breathe deep, enjoy, and remember that life is one long party, so let's have fun.

Check out the chicken thigh thread over in the Cooking Forum. There's a marinade recipe there that looks awful and is supposed to be FABULOUS. So, go now, and spread joy.

You're such a cutie, you are.

[Connie_Corleone]

114. I'm glad I missed it.

The Ignore button is my friend. :evilgrin:

[Cameron27]

121. Ok, sorry you feel that way

I felt and still feel that I could've been labeled a troll, or have questions about my "loyalty" pop up, simply for not believing. That's all and that's a lot

[OldLeftieLawyer]

138. Thank you

That was very kind of you, and much appreciated.

[dogday]

105. I have some questions?

How come the M$M are not busting truthout's story now... Why are they so quiet? I found just a few M$M publications on the article when it first came out, but I can't find an article one stating that this story and the reporters and their sources screwed up...

I posted this yesterday, see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1228597&mesg_id=1229231

Here are just a few of the titles I found....

Rove shows calm amid storm

Can Rove weather the political, legal storm?

Friends say Rove unfazed by threat of indictment

Karl Rove unfazed by possibility of indictment in CIA leak case

Rove Said Unfazed by Chance of Charges

Rove Plays Down Precarious Legal Situation

Colleagues say Rove unfazed by legal woes

Indictment or not, Rove won't be kept down

(notice the word unfazed)
_____________________________________________________

I am just wondering why this is not all over the news now?

[stop the bleeding]

106. that is also a question worth exploring - kick

why the silence?

[sabra]

119. something is going down...

[novalib]

117. Why, Indeed!

If the TruthOut story was nothing but lies (and I am NOT saying that it is) why isn't the corporate media jumping all over it as a way to discredit those of us that they hate?

Wouldn't the corporate media be jumping up and down to "show" that the story was false, if indeed it were nothing but lies?

[Goblinmonger]

125. Because they don't give a shit

about Jason Leopold or Truthout.

This is just a blib outside of a small group of Internet sites.

[novalib]

135. And Some, It Seems

and some, it seems, are intent on doing all they can to discredit TruthOut and Mr. Leopold and Mr. Pitt.

Depsite all the GOOD they have done for us!!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

126. Because it's insignificant

except here at DU.

In the real world, it doesn't even exist, because it's nothing but small, easily overlooked, unaccountable, and unprofessional small potatoes.

[novalib]

136. For "Small Potatoes"....

For such small potatoes, there certainly are some who seem to be pre-occupied with knocking down such an "insignificant" website and authors!

[deaniac21]

128. Because they don't consider Truthout a news source.

[newblewtoo]

132. I am just wondering why this is not all over the news now

See:

OldLeftieLawyer (1000+ posts) Fri May-19-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. Do you honestly think this tiny little tempest in an even tinier teapot has captured the attention of anyone but DUers?

It would appear she has had it right all along. :thumbsup:

[sabra]

116. lucky 13 coming soon... ?

[benburch]

124. Probably no need for another thread.

Unless there is news.

[sabra]

129. edit

seems to be posted already

[alcibiades_mystery]

141. There should be a "The Week that Was" Thread #13

Which counts down the excruciating march towards Five O'Clock, also known as the end of business hours...;-)

[Junkdrawer]

122. Question: Are we allowed to express our outrage that Rove IS NOT...

getting indicted on a separate thread, or must it be conflated with the Truthout story?

:shrug:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

130. I think everyone is allowed to express everything,

provided you don't use the word "Fuckface" when referring to the twit in the Oval Office.

Ooops.

[yodermon]

146. You know what gets my goat on this?

1) Luskin and Corallo are apparently batting 100% in the truth department, and "truthout" is batting 0%.
(wrt this story only, mind you).

2) Capitol Hill Blue is listed as a Google news source, but truthout is not.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=truthout.org&btnG=Search+News , 4th link from top.

:eyes:

[Moderator]

148. Locking. Thread #13 started.

Link for Thread #13:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1235960