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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 09:29 AM
Original message
25% of Middle Class Iraqis flee as conditions worsen
We may be debating in this country on whether or not our troops should pull out of Iraq. But Iraqis who can afford to have already determined it is time to leave.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/world/middleeast/19migration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

"The main thing now is to just get out of Iraq," said Mr. Bahjat, standing in a room heaped with suitcases and bedroom furniture in eastern Baghdad.

In the latest indication of the crushing hardships weighing on the lives of Iraqis, increasing portions of the middle class seem to be doing everything they can to leave the country. In the last 10 months, the state has issued new passports to 1.85 million Iraqis, 7 percent of the population and a quarter of the country's estimated middle class.

snip

Most frightening, many middle-class Iraqis say, was how little the government did to stop the violence. That failure boded ominously for the future, leaving them feeling that the government was incapable of protecting them and more darkly, that perhaps it helped in the killing. Shiite-dominated government forces have been accused of carrying out sectarian killings.

"Now I am isolated," said Monkath Abdul Razzaq, a middle-class Sunni Arab, who decided to leave after the bombing. "I have no government. I have no protection from the government. Anyone can come to my house, take me, kill me and throw me in the trash."

snip

"The past few months convinced us," said Mr. Kubba, a businessman whose wife is Sunni. "Now they are killing by ID's. The killing around Americans was something different, but the ID's, you can't move around on the streets."

"At the beginning we said, 'Let's wait, maybe it will be better tomorrow,' " Mr. Kubba said.

"Now I know it is time to go."


Also included in the above article are pictures of these families which is about as opposite of our images of Iraqis as you can get.

Here are some other examples of just how bad it is there. With a hat tip to Andrew Sullivan, here is another story of the pogroms against gays and others who "corrupt the community" in Iraq.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2183948,00.html

THE death threat was delivered to Karazan’s father early in the morning by a masked man wearing a police uniform.

The scribbled note was brief. Karazan had to die because he was gay. In the new Baghdad, his sexuality warranted execution by the religious militias.

The father was told that if he did not hand his son over, other family members would be killed.

What scares the city’s residents is how the fanatics’ list of enemies is growing. It includes girls who refuse to cover their hair, boys who wear theirs too long, booksellers, liberal professors and prostitutes. Three shops known to sell alcohol were bombed yesterday in the Karrada shopping district.


And here is news from an Iraqi blogger of the Talibanization of a Baghdad neighborhood:

http://citycalledhell.blogspot.com/2006/05/wild-wild-west-or-exodus-of-women.html

Al Amiriyah District is a small district on the west side of the Tigris river “al Karkh”, this district used to be one of the most expensive neighborhoods in beautifully Baghdad back in the stone ages “Prior April 2003”, its main street called “al Amal al Shabi” was one of the most busiest street filled with people shopping, going to the famous Chicken Restaurants, lots of teenagers hanging around till dusk.

Now in the Golden age “Post April 2003” you should see that same street, concrete barriers, so cars would slow down, 99.9% of the shops shut due to terrorist threats, not even barber shops.

On Sunday the whole street was filled with threat notices posted by the “Honorable Resistance” AKA “Zarqawi’s” its main subjects are:

Men are not allowed to grow goatees
Men are not allowed to wear Jeans
Men are not allowed to remove their facial hair
Woman are required to wear a “Juba” some kind of black gown that looks like a sack
Woman are not allowed to drive
Women are not allowed to leave their homes without a chaperon

Any one not obeying these rules will be shot.


I am sharing all of this bad news with you to simply illustrate the complete failure of the * administration to secure the country. In light of the cold blooded killing of 24 innocent civilians by American troops in November as confirmed by Rep. Murtha 2 days ago, it has become quite obvious that our troops are becoming less and less effective. Atrocities ultimately happen because of bad policy decisions at the top, and the despair and frustration of troops transforming into evil acts. Even hawks have to acknowledge what a complete failure this "Iraq Project" has become. Training Iraqis can no longer be an excuse to stay longer since the training seems to be used moreso than not to terrify, torture, and kill the local population. We must start the transition of leaving the country and containing the terrorist threat that could inevitably come out of the failed state of Iraq. And, yes, it is now a failed state, when 25% of the middle class leaves. These are the people that would have brought the country back and since they are gone, there will be no hope until after the civil war is over, a war the American troops will have NO control over.

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. We're shrinking the middle class over there...
...just for practice.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I think they got their practice here first!
Destroy the middle class in America & then use those same tactics elsewhere.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. bah
Think how many more would have left if things hadn't been getting better continuously since 2003.
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, BRAVO, Bush!!! Fucking BRAVO.
Way to "liberate" a country. I never would have thought of that. Make it so unliveable as to cause a diaspora among Arabs. Way to fucking go, you prick.

:grr: :nuke:
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. But isn't it bizarre that the Iraqis themselves have developed
an "exit strategy" while our troops are going to stay there forever, short of breaking our army and bankrupting our country. The conservatives always talk about the wisdom of the "individual"; well what about checking out the wisdom of INDIVIDUAL IRAQIS -- who see that all hope has been dashed, and it's OVER. The only ones staying are those who CAN'T leave or who are religious wacko Islamists (Shi'ite, Sunni, Iraqi, foreign -- take your pick) and war profiteers or corrupt politicians. A cesspool that any sane person would want to leave as quickly as possible.


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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's absolutely ASTOUNDING to me.
The irony of it is a loud slap in the face. And you're right; Bizarre.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. He thought that "diaspora" was a good thing.
Wouldn't surprise me, anyway.
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. middle class americans, middle class iraqis "currently without country"
Edited on Fri May-19-06 10:14 AM by hopeisaplace
just kidding of course, but we, the middle class, are getting our
butts kicked.


edit: spelling booboo
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Well, Americans and Iraqis share one thing for certain:
Incompetent and corrupt leaders. It's like * didn't just want to "democratize" Iraq but to shape it in his party's own twisted ideological image. But guess what? The results have been devastating there daily, the way it was devastating to New Orleans after Katrina.

COMPLETE failure of leadership.
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. You said it, "A COMPLETE failure of leadership"
It's my favorite saying these days
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&N because everyone should be aware of just how 'successful'
the fight for democracy is. :eyes: :mad:
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. bush is not failing in Iraq
Edited on Fri May-19-06 12:31 PM by welshTerrier2
there are two prevailing views of what's happening in Iraq ...

one view is that bush is incompetent and that he has been unable to succeed in Iraq ... this view focusses on issues highlighted in the OP ... things like "he hasn't trained enough troops" or "he's been unable to build a stable government" or "he's been unable to quell the civil war" are the trademarks of this perspective ...

sadly, most prominent Democrats ascribe to this belief ...

i'm afraid the truth, however, lies elsewhere ...

implicit in the view described above is that bush's MOTIVES in Iraq are legitimate but his execution in inadequate ... this is a very, very dangerous point of view ... it leads too many Democrats to positions that continue to enable bush's war ... the argument becomes "he needs to do more of this or less of that" ... here's a hint: he doesn't want to - he's conducting the war exactly the way he wants to conduct the war ...

Why?

because of "view number two" ...

the war on terror is nothing but a smokescreen for Centcom ... it's goal is to do nothing more than to provide a justification for US occupation in the region ... shame on the Democrats who believe we're in Iraq to help the Iraqis; it's just not true ... and now we're being sold all the stories about the dangers of Iran's advanced nuclear program; it's crap ... and Darfur and all those poor starving people? it's US oil policies that are driving them into barren lands just as we are bankrupting and stranding the Sunnis in central Iraq ...

the mistake that was made in voting for the IWR was not that it "voted for war" but that it empowered bush and his maniacal cabal to move occupation forces into the Middle East for illegitimate purposes ... it may sound trite to some or be dismissed as a "lefty cliche" but the "war" really is all about oil and oil industry profits ... since the invasion, multi-national oil companies have realized all time record profits ... bush's puppet, Chalabi, has held a stranglehold on Iraq's oil ministry even though he suffered a crushing defeat (less than .37 of 1%) during the last elections ... and numerous "PSA's (preferred service agreements)" have been signed between Iraq's government and "Big Oil" that are nothing more than a raping of the Iraqi oil industry ... does that sound like failure and incompetence to you? trust me, bush's friends in the oil industry are very happy with him ...

until prominent Americans and a deceived public question the MOTIVES for the Iraq invasion instead of focussing on the failure to achieve the advertised but false objectives, we remain a weak opposition to further occupation ...
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Well, at least Kerry has said OUT by 12/31/06 -- no ifs, ands, or buts
about it. In a way that is a challenge -- once that date goes by, then it will be -- hey -- what are you STILL doing there? Just what IS your objective of remaining in the middle of a civil war?

I know many who hold your views, but I for one put "Why we invaded Iraq" in a file of the Great Mysteries of this world, because I really don't know. I don't know why we went in, and I don't even know what * has in mind when he says "victory". I can only deal in the facts on the ground, and the POV of Iraqis.

If I were an Iraqi, I would want first and foremost some semblance of normalcy in my daily life. And in that, the U.S., the coalition partners, and the Iraqi government have been complete failures. If I were an Iraqi, I would wonder why the Americans are still in my country, yet oftentimes, not on the street protecting me from Sunni terrorists or Shi'ite militia death squads. If I were an Iraqi, I would ask WHY water, electricity, and other basics in infrastructre STILL haven't gotten better. If I were an Iraqi, I would be looking at the globe planning on where my new home would be, because I can no longer wait for things to get better.

You know, for a time Tal Afar was a "success" story because 1,000 troops went in, purged the terrorists (and yes, they were terrorists), and established some stability. The Iraqi kids followed the troops around like they were heroes. Then you find out that the whole plan was hatched by an "insurgent group of American troops" rebelling against the big strategic policies. Now those troops have shipped out, with a green bunch replacing them. Now we're hearing more and more of an uptick of suicide bombings in Tal Afar. So maybe you're right. If peace and democracy was Bush's plan, wouldn't it be there by now? I'm not sure. But certainly, the bad news on the ground will keep theories like your own in the back of everyone's minds.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kerry said "immediate withdrawal" as of 5/22
Edited on Fri May-19-06 01:56 PM by welshTerrier2
just to be clear on this, Kerry called for "immediate withdrawal" as of 5/22 if the Iraqis failed to form a government by then ...

i am in 100% agreement with your assessment that: "and the Iraqi government have been complete failures" ...

the 12/31/06 date you referred to was only IF a real government was formed ...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Kerry can say all he wants. but the repugs own it, and they aren't
going anywhere. So is it Kerry's fault or theirs?
It's a gaggle mess.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. just trying to keep the facts straight
Edited on Sat May-20-06 09:49 AM by welshTerrier2
my point wasn't and isn't to blame Kerry for his recent Iraq position; i strongly support it ... i mentioned the 5/22 date because I am hoping Kerry will aggressively push for immediate withdrawal after that time ...

it's more than appalling that there's been only a very few Senators who supported his new position on Iraq ...

Democrats may not have the votes to stop the war but that doesn't mean they don't have any power ... the American people are looking for real leadership on the issue and the Democrats are NOT responding ...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. I love Kerry but share your wonder. When is enough ENOUGH!?!
Where are the goddamn dems who are not worthy of a capital letter (D as in dems, but they aren't worthy)? I''m beyond annoyed.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Unemployment rate in Iraq is 60% so I guess this would make sense n/t
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bunyip Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. I visited an Iraqi-Australian friend
last night. Chatted with his newly-arrived brother about the dire situation in their homeland. :(

They are upper-middle-class Sunni Arabs, but they have another brother married to a Kurdish woman, and cousins who married Shi'a. What is surprising is not the fact small, state-sponsored fanatic groups have plunged that country into sectarian civil war, but that it took this long.

It would be even easier to set up ethnic war in Australia or the US. Give a few small groups of bigots weapons, uniforms and encouragement, and reprisal and counter-reprisal will generate its own momentum.

When police can set up roadblocks to execute people in broad daylight for being the wrong sect, and a nine-year-old girl next door is blown up by an IED aimed at a US patrol, it's time to get out...

On a positive note (if you can call it that), the more desperately they fight each other, the less they can fight us. Bush* might still pull this off - balkanization is a desperate tactic, but it worked for the French in Indochina for a century, and in Lebanon for 25 years. They'll need to kill Moqtada al Sadra though - with Sunni organizations smashed by the counter-insurgency, many Sunni look to him as a protector.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. So your friends are holding out for hope, bunyip?
I've lost all with this admin, so I'm curious to know. What do they think would have been the best way to go for us, besides not going at all?
And welcome to DU! :)
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bunyip Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Iraqis are a proud people.
They say they believe Iraq will recover, but it may take a generation.

I've lost all with this admin, so I'm curious to know. What do they think would have been the best way to go for us, besides not going at all?


Well, my friend said after he visited Iraq in '02 that the regime (his word) was a hollow shell, with no Ba'ath grassroots activism any more. Saddam had a maximum of 2 years before a nationalist revolt + coup would topple him, leading to a new strongman but one who would make popular concessions to buy popular support after the style of Assad jnr and more recently Mubarak.

Ironically, lifting of sanctions might have been enough to encourage the military that they could take action without provoking a foreign invasion.

Ultimately, the Bush boys had to attack ASAP while Iraq was weakest.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. The saddest thing about this is that it could have been avoided
...if Bush** had just sent in enough troops and also hadn't disbanded the entire Iraqi Army after taking Baghdad. There were tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers who wanted to help rebuild Iraq by securing the streets. They were all turned away, told to go home, and most of them haven't been able to find a job since...At least, not with the coalition side.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Wow! The slaughter of Iraqis wasn't severe enough to succeed? !!!
You may not know history, but the US corporate masters/monsters sent a half million into Vietnam, murdered millions of real living loving human beings, and were driven out by a population who refused to be ruled by foreign warlords. You think the Iraqis wanted a foreign army to occupy their country and slaughter hundreds of thousands of their friends and neighbors? Go look at http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm and try to tell me the Iraqis wanted "more" of that. The invasion was an act of unspeakable brutality and evil beyond comprehension. You think they wanted more of the same? I don't think so.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Who the fuck do you think you are?
I didn't say a word to suggest the Iraqis wanted to be invaded and occupied! I was talking about what Bush** did and didn't do. It shouldn't be necessary for ANYONE here to have to show their credentials and prefix every comment they make with a treatise about how wrong it was to invade Iraq in the first place. Try reading next time instead of assuming!!
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. I can see the FOX spin on this already!
and I dare anyone to prove me wrong! :D

"Highly skilled Iraqis now able to lend their expertise to surrounding nations"

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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. Gee, Mary Cheney said
tonite on Letterman everything was roses in Iraq!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I bet a large % of the Upper Class Iraqis left a long
time ago. The Upper Class that are in power positions are trying to hang in but many of those will probably leave, as well. Most will be hiding in that Green Zone or other US protected areas, such as that $Billion Embassy.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
26. unsettled, i guess
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kicking for PM
I am so extremely sick of this.
:kick:
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