Can Dems use the Gay Marriage issue to their advantage?

[Dawgs]

I think so.

How about a commericial that lays out the Democratic plan versus the "anti-gay marriage" ONLY plan of the Republicans?

Democrats are for...

Fixing the Healthcare problems,
Fixing the Energy (Gas prices) problems,
Fixing the corruption in government,
Raising minimum wage,
Fighting for our civil liberties,
etc...

while the only plan the Republicans are working on is how to put anti-gay amendments on each ballot.

[Caution]

1. Yes. Turn it into states rights

hot button issue for conservatives. it'll drive them batshit.

[Maraya1969]

2. That sounds good to me. Dems have a lot to go on this time.

And there are people who vote Republican JUST to keep out gay marriage. A commercial that shows how incredibly insignificant that issue is compared to the horrors going on in our country might get through to them.

[Touchdown]

3. Call the rethugs out on their bigotry.

They are using hate. Don't let them get away with it. Frame it as a bigotry issue, and you appeal to the American People's sense of fairness. Cop out, and "explain, clarify, apologize," or some other mealy mouth explaination, just gives them ammunition to stay on the attack. Put them on the defensive. Make them explain their bigotry and hate. Make them "clarify" once in their lifetimes.

[mmonk]

4. I think many dems will still run on the themes

that they could have done the Iraq war "right" and that they can protect us better than the republicans from terrorists (unfortunately).

[Warpy]

5. Dems don't need to answer this issue at all

and in fact should not. They've been allowing the GOP to define debate for too damn long already. If the GOP uses this to get out the snake handler vote, so be it. My guess is that even the snake handlers are going to be a little more resistant to it this time, since they'll have to gas up that SUV to get to the polls and that will remind them where the GOP is really at.

The Democrats need to campaign on WAGES, WAGES, WAGES. That is the REAL wedge issue right now. Prices are skyrocketing and wages are actually falling. The GOP has no answer to this, since they're the main party in favor of forcing wages down to the bottom.

"Work should PAY." That's an unbeatable slogan. 87% of Americans agree with it.

[Dawgs]

10. I don't think I'm suggesting an answer.

What I'm suggesting is exactly what you're saying. It's more about highlighting the Dem message than exposing the Rights hypocrisy.

You are so right about wages. Another commercial I would like to see is one showing how the tax cuts are mostly (by a huge margin) going to the top 10%, while the Dem's plan of raising minimum wage has worked to improve the economy in every state it's been implemented.

"Pay raises, not $20 tax cuts"

[bullimiami]

6. sure they can. take a goddamned stand. equal rights for all.

enough of this mealy mouthed bullshit.

[unblock]

7. how to frame the marriage issue:

first: NEVER use the word "gay" or "homosexual"

second: ALWAYS focus on government intrusion

for instance: "i want to get rid of government intrusions into your private life! my opponent wants to empower the government to tell you who you can and cannot marry!"


the key is to frame this as an issue that affects EVERYBODY, not just an issue that affects homosexuals.

[phiddle]

13. Yes, yes, a thousand times YES

We have a great chance to define the repubs as the "anti-privacy" party. (What part of the term "private life" do they not understand?)

Government intrusion into private life is the thread that connects gay marriage, abortion, the Terry Schiavo case, government eavesdropping, and even the Clinton impeachment.

Yesterday on the Ed Schultz show I heard Wayne LaPierre of the NRA express his "profound concern" over the NSA phone mining issue. It struck me then that this is a great chance to bust up the neo con coalition. If the NRA is not on board with this stuff, then we have a real chance. But to sieze it, I think that we have to be thematic about it, and the theme is: privacy.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. When I see Dems actually SUPPORT equal marriage...

Then, and only then, will I believe they are fighting for my civil liberties.

[OregonBlue]

18. Can gays support civil unions if those civil unions convey all of

the rights of marriage? Is there something else, other than marriage that the gay community could get behind that would take this issue off the table? I do understand that it is your right and that it is the ugliest kind of discrimination but, if it could be taken off the table for the upcoming election, you'd have a much better chance with the Dems in control of making real change.

[TechBear_Seattle]

22. Separate is never equal

It would be extremely difficult to create a perfectly equal parallel to marriage (see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=34804&mesg_id=34835 and the sub-thread that continues from there.)

If some kind of "alternative marriage" like civil unions is equal in all ways to marriage, why go to all the work when equal marriage, regardless of gender, can be done very easily and without sacrificing all of the judicial precedents regarding marriage?

[OregonBlue]

23. There are many marriage laws in various states. Why not take the

best of them and craft a "civil union" that is a really good contract and offer it as an alternative. I know that gays and lesbians could craft a much better agreement than many of the current "marriage" laws on the books in various states.

[TechBear_Seattle]

24. The 10th Amendment

Each state has the right to create its own marriage laws. Any effort by Congress to interfere would be a gross violation of the 10th Amendment restrictions on the power of Congress and guarantee of states' rights. The Supreme Court could make a ruling that affects all states (such as when the decision in Loving v. Virginia overturned all antimiscegenation laws) but that would require... Guess what? Making marriage equal, not creating a separate but equal parallel institution which is marriage in everything but name. Again, none of the judicial precedents regarding marriage can apply to anything but "marriage" except as extended on a case by case basis, and a few bigoted judges could keep that from ever happening just by setting precedent against such an extension. Should that happen, separate would never be equal.

What is the problem with just equal marriage? It is simple, easy, would actually guarantee all of the rights and protections of marriage, etc., etc., etc. Why is it such a big deal that gay people continue to be denied the right to legally be married?

[OregonBlue]

25. I understand your position but, as proposed in another thread here

"call the rethugs out", unfortunately, it's not just rethugs. There are a lot of Dems out there that also oppose gay marriage. Just wish there was some way to defuse the issue. As I said before, if the Dems can take back House and Senate, there is a much better chance of getting some real movement on gays and lesbian issues.

I'm totally in agreement with you but just tired of this being a "winning" issue for repukes. I also understand that it is a civil rights issue and like desegregation, has to be addressed. Are gays and lesbians willing to risk another GOP win in order to make their point?

[skyblue]

9. No Friggin' Way.

Here's your answer:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

And:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Relationships/same_sex_marriage_poll_040121.html

Won't help. Sorry!

[marmar]

12. Those approval numbers on the amendment are sad...

If nothing else, I assumed most people opposed a constitutional amendment, even if they didn't agree with same-sex marriages.
One day the Repug fear and paranoia tactics are going to blow up in their faces. :argh:

[W_HAMILTON]

15. There are some positives

55% of 18-29 think gay marriage should be legal. They're the ones that will be the future, not the 65+ year olds where 75% think it should be ILLEGAL.

Time is on our side with this one. You're not gonna re-teach someone who has lived seven decades. This type of hate is ingrained in people, and luckily, it's not being as ingrained in the younger generations. They are growing up with gay people, and seeing gay people on TV, and they know that it's not a big deal. There will always be some hateful people out there, but the tide will swing the other way in the coming decades, just watch.

[BR_Parkway]

20. You haven't seen any polls since 2004? You might be surprised

mostly in the change in attitudes once Massachuchets didn't implode after all the queers started getting hitched. Took the fear out of alot of the arguments the wingnuts were pumping so hard in 2004

[skyblue]

27. Alas, Massachusetts is more enlightened than most states!

:hi: Unfortunately, Mass is probably the exception to the rule. (It's not KS, etc) I do hope that the GLBT groups will cease being the scapegoat for the right wing and others. It's really quite the shock when you find out how people think about Gay marriage. Like John Spencer's character on West Wing said "Are the gays going to change the institute of marriage as we know it?" Unbelievable. The thing is you have to change people's minds. Not just demand that they think like you, and I appreciate all the logical persuasion possibilities, but it's going to boil down to things other than logic, emotions basically...

[W_HAMILTON]

11. They could even turn it around back on them

Point out that it's not just gay marriage that Republicans want to outlaw. They want control over your sex lives, gay or straight. Point out the ruling (from MO, I think it was) where it said that unmarried couples can't live together.

Instead of letting Republicans single gays out, Democrats need to point out that it is just a smaller part of their war on all sex. They don't want gay people to get married, they don't want anyone to have sex before marriage, they want to outlaw contraception, they would rather have people with STDs die than receive help, they would rather have women die to cervical cancer than approve a vaccine for the virus that causes it, because they believe that it would encourage promiscuity.

Gay people might be a small portion of the population, but when you add to them women, and people who have sex before marriage, and people that live together even though they aren't married, and other people that just don't want these dickhead politicians snooping around in their sex lives, well then you probably have a convincing majority.

Sometimes I just want to smack Democrats upside the head, because they could be doing so much to turn these games the Republicans play back against them, and instead so many of them just seem willing to go along with it, playing right into their hands.

[paparush]

14. There is NO WAY to bring this issue to Mr. & Mrs. Sixpack

Rep: MARRIAGE IS DEFINED BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. It always has been. We must protect the children. We must protect family values.

Dem: All people are created equal and should be afforded equal protection under the law.


**************************************

The Repug argument is just so much easier for people to grasp. And I'm sorry, most 'Murkins aren't going to equate gay rights to Women's Rights or the Civil Rights struggles of the 60's.

This issue exists solely to distract voters.

[Touchdown]

17. Sorry. Too mealy mouthed.

They are using hate, and there is nothing wrong with calling what they say, what it really is.

Dem. This country is falling apart because of Republican corruption, and all Republicans want to do is beat up on gay people.

Frame it as a bigotry issue, and watch that 55% for an Amendment fall fast. Nobody likes being called a bigot, or being thought of as one.

[unblock]

19. see my post, #7

[skyblue]

16. Gay Marriage More Relevant than Abortion to Voters.

Same Article I posted earlier.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/24/national/main601828.shtml

Sorry Again!

[wiggs]

21. Great idea. And other ideas on this thread good too

It's not that hard to frame an issue correctly when you have all the issues on your side. It IS really hard to have all the issues and still manage to flubb the message over a period of five years.

Your idea has elements of ridicule in it, without alienating those who might really be uncomfortable with gay marriage. Pugs have used ridicule ruthlessly and to great effect. Pugs ARE focused on intrusion and once this idea takes hold, people will remember Schiavo, spying, free speech issues, etc and realize that it is part of a disturbing trend more important than gay marriage itself.

[Kahuna]

26. I think they can if they are honest about the issue. They should do

like Clinton would do and use shame as a weapon against the fundies. Clinton knew how to shame Americans into putting aside pettiness and fear and doing the right thing. The Dems need to get in touch with their inner Clinton and learn how to communicate with people honestly. They need to call the republicans out as having no ideas other than to cause further divisions between this group and that group. That's all they have.