Liberty is secured by blood?

[kentuck]

Thomas Jefferson, once stated, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

What did he mean by that?

Are we now at that moment in history? If the tree is to survive, must we be ready to fight and shed blood for liberty?

(edited per the correction of bright DU posters to add "tyrants")

[Virginia Dare]

1. We're getting close...

I can see any number of catastrophes on the horizon which would push this country into a period of major civil unrest. We are edging ever closer to the cusp.

[shadowknows69]

6. Depending on the paths we take from here

and when I say we "agent mike" I mean the government. They are the ones with the mandate to rule justly. Absent that all bets are off. A populace can only be pushed so far. Particularly one with precedent.

[Jim Warren]

14. Close

but minus historical reference or nostalgic memory of founding fathers

The former US in 25 years will look more like the Balkans, broken and feudal.

Fuel the torches and sharpen the pitchforks.

[IrateCitizen]

2. I believe it was a comment made...

regarding either the whiskey rebellion, or Jefferson's fascination with the Jacobin revolution in France.

[Atman]

3. Cheap vodka is in W's blood.

It helps him keep that warm glow.

[dogday]

4. If we give up our rights, all who have died have

fought in vain...

[chaplainM]

5. Blood

The quote was "the blood of patriots AND TYRANTS."

I prefer more of the latter, personally.

[elehhhhna]

11. Wow, good catch. Welcome, chap!

[The2ndWheel]

7. More like cheap energy

But when Jefferson said that, who knew?

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I've always believed it means that every now and then government will

get so out-of-hand (like, now!) that revolution will be required.

[ewagner]

9. I've often thought about Jefferson's words

and I've come to believe that Jefferson understood human nature much better than we now do....

I think he understood that the masses could, and would be manipulated into electing tyrants, perhaps even electing them in the name of freedom....and, once entrenched, the only way to remove those tyrants was by force. I think it can be done with only virtual blood.....

[elehhhhna]

12. virtual blood. hope so.

[atreides1]

10. You forgot a part

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

That tyrant part is important too.

[Poll_Blind]

15. Thank you for including that...The whole, 2-sentence quote:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

PB

[bryant69]

13. It depends on what you mean by the word Blood

If that's a vieled suggestion that violence might be the solution to the current gordian knot of American politics, I'd argue no. For one I think that should ONLY be a last resort, and there is still plenty we can do. For another, people who are willing to use violence to achieve political ends usually turn out to be as bad or worse than the people they depose.

On the other hand if it is a metaphor along the lines of Sir Winston Churchills famous line, "I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this Government: 'I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat." I would 100% agree. This is a time to step up and do a bit more than we have in the past. To work a little harder, to be a bit more aggressive, to be a bit smarter, to put our country ahead of our own egos and so on and so forth.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[kentuck]

16. I think Jefferson meant "real" blood....

Hopefully there will not be any violence in our country. But, more and more, it seems the people are being pushed in that direction. Yes, there are still a few things that can be done to prevent that from happening at this time, I would agree.

[bryant69]

17. I'm curious

Why is it your impression that people are being pushed more and more in that direction?

I mean this hasn't been a good year for the Bush Administration (and neither was last year). Bush's big speech on Monday was a joke to pretty much everybody, and his approval rating is in that space right below the toilet.

I mean I get that a Rat is never more dangerous than when he is cornered, and that Diebold might mean that we will never win an election again (if that holds true than some sort of action will be necessary), but in general aren't things going in the way we want them too?

Bryant

[kentuck]

18. "...aren't things going in the way we want them too?"

If you mean that we might win the next election, yes, you may be right. But what have we won if the country is destroyed, fiscally and physically, and our freedoms have been eroded and surrendered to the neocons? No, in that light, things are not going our way.

[bryant69]

19. I suppose it's a function of how bad you think things are

If you think America has been on a bit of a bender and needs to sober up, well that's one thing. On the other hand if you think America is going through a terminal overdose, well that's something else, I suppose.

Bryant

[WePurrsevere]

20. What an apt metaphor. I lean towards the being on a bender myself but....

again I've always felt that remaining positive as long as possible is more empowering. :)

[benburch]

21. The full quote;

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure."

From a letter to W.S. Smith dated November 13th 1787.