Official Truthout/Leopold/Rove Indictment Thead #1

[Skinner]

We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

[babylonsister]

1. Great idea, admins! Thank you!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[fishwax]

39. i've got a feeling the thread #1 will be filled primarily with thank yous

by the time everyone who thinks this is a great idea has chimed in, a second thread will be required.

:applause:

[GOTV]

54. When the open thread #2 let's thank them for that also!

[smb]

67. Yep

It might also be a good idea to vote the thread onto the Greatest page so that people who want to talk about the subject are directed to it right away.

[johnnie]

2. Great idea

Thanks. I was going to start hiding them but then I figured I would just have stories from a week ago on the first page.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Thank you Skinner!

Wise move!

Gentlemen! Start your engines!

[elehhhhna]

4. Thank you.

[diamondsndust]

5. oh thank god!!

i'm sick of it all. bottom line... IF Jason was wrong, or even lied.. no died because of it!

[TahitiNut]

6. My carpal tunnel is grateful.

:eyes:

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. Kudos!

:woohoo:

[nutsnberries]

45. and Kudzu.

it's going places. ;)

[Marnieworld]

8. Great idea Skinner

Thanks.

[fishnfla]

9. 5/12 stamped on the indictment, 5/19 announcement?

I was just gonna post in that thread. This does not compute.

Has Rove been working in the WH and out in public for the admnin? They let a a staff member up on charges still work in the WH?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

Until the indictment is made public, Rove can do anything he wants.

[fishnfla]

64. Has this been done before?

Is there any legal precedent for this type of action?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. Did you follow the process for Libby? The public announcement was....

...made a week AFTER the date of his indictment. Libby continued to work during that week.

[arwalden]

70. He Did? Really?

Wow.

[arwalden]

68. How Does An Indicted Man Keep His Security Clearance?

[Snivi Yllom]

90. It's a KARLSPIRACY!

He can do whatever he wants you know.

[dogday]

57. This administration is so corrupt, they

do anything they want.... Who knows what is up their sleeve.....

[rodeodance]

10. Recommended.

[AlCzervik]

11. Thank you, much appreciated.

[Triana]

12. Thanks Skinner...

...I quit reading them all yesterday but they were still making me dizzy.

[stop the bleeding]

13. 05/12/2006 Indictment

there are several people out there who have been judge, jury, and executioner on this matter about TO instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to see how this plays out. They(TO) could have retracted the story on Monday but they didn't, in fact they ratcheted it up a few more degrees by putting themselves out further with interviews and articles since then.

WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Wed May-17-06 04:02 PM
Original message

When the documents come out

they will have dates on the top.

Those dates will be Friday May 12, 2006.

Just as we said.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1217129&mesg_id=1217212

[fishnfla]

23. see post 9 nt

[stop the bleeding]

31. not my words

lets wait and see as post indicates

[Goblinmonger]

26. So how long do they give someone they have indicted?

They let him keep running the country when he has a federal indictment on him? Doesn't seem likely to me.

[stop the bleeding]

29. doesn't matter if it seems likely to you or not, last time I checked

those weren't mine or your words - so as my post says lets wait and see.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. "They" who? Until it's made public, "they" can do anything "they" want.

[Goblinmonger]

51. OK

but the article said 24 hours. And why didn't these fabulous sources tell Leopold what the REAL scoop was then?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. And the article was amended that evening to indicate that....

...the 24 hours really should have been stated as 24 business hours. IMHO, some of the confusion could have been averted had 3 business days been used instead of 24 business hours.

To be honest, that time frame has been seized on by Leopold's detractors as a means to discredit his story. The time frame noted above was one that was being given to Rove to allow him time to respond prior to the indictment being made public.

If you go back and look, Leopold did state in his article that the announcement of the indictment would take place later this week, at a time of Fitz' choosing.

[stop the bleeding]

69. good things come to those who wait

patience is a virtue for some people it is mythical

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. LOL! :-)

[Goblinmonger]

79. Here's the deal, though

"24 hours" and "24 business hours" are the same damn thing, legally. It was a bullshit statement that made the entire story look stupid. Lawyers are not vague in their language. If they mean 3 days, they say 3 days or 72 hours.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

89. "Lawyers are not vague in their language"?? LOL.

[sojourner]

102. sounds like you believe this regime actually CARES about the rule of law..

once upon a time it also wouldn't have seemed likely that a President of the USA could get caught secretly breaking the law, then come right out and thumb his nose at all of us (daring us to stop him) and KEEP breaking the law.

[mmonk]

Order in the court!

14. thanks - I can stop pressing ignore thread button constantly

[LeftHander]

15. LEOPOLD!

How simple life was when saturday was for cartoons...

...now we live them everyday.

[Fleshdancer]

16. YAY!

Thanks Skinner. We need this. And good luck to the mods...this is going to be a very busy day for them.

[npincus]

17. Sammy Pepys, please post.

Yesterday you said you knew some folks over at Patton Boggs. Can you please give them a shout-out and ask if they know of a friday meeting with Fitz in their offices? Can they tellyou anything?

thanks.

[Sammy Pepys]

28. Hey....

Haven't heard anything other than what I've told you. To clarify, one person I know there I keep in pretty regular contact with...the other not so much.

[npincus]

35. thanks- I just posted another to you!

Sorry, I am not a cyber-stalker! Just anxious! thank you.

[Sammy Pepys]

42. hahah..no problem...

Wish I had more, but I don't.

[snooper2]

18. wow...

even superthread got locked..."Karl Rove Indicted"....

Bummer...

[ContraBass Black]

19. GASP! You mean we'll have threads on the first page about other things?

Thanks. So, what's going on in the rest of the world?

[Catherine Vincent]

20. Very good.

Skinner, :yourock:

[William769]

21. Can you please also do the same for the Crooks & liars website?

Sheesh!

[Sammy Pepys]

22. So, where we're at now....

Other sources (not TO to my knowledge) are claiming tomorrow the indictment will be handed down May 19. If this happenes, it would follow a similar timeline as the Libby indictment.

[npincus]

33. hi Sammy Pepys- can you get info from your Patton Boggs contacts?

Was Fitz there Friday? Are these"sources" you refer to people that you know, or the same sources (blogoshpere) that we are all finding.

[Spangle]

49. I can't find anything that shows the Libby time line

I tried to check that rumor out last night/this morning. All I could find on the subject was that Fitz went from the GJ to the Court House, filed it and then announced it. And it was on his web site right away.

Which means the paper work/web work, etc.. all would have to be done before the actual filling. Something I'm sure would have all redy been prepapred IF that was the direction the group was working towards. Final wording, adjustments, etc.. that would be all that would be left to do. Take a week? That is why I tried to find some sort of time line about the Libby thing. DIdn't find it. Even in the source blog Iheard this rumor from, I checked back to the libby indictment and no mentioned of this sort of time line there. And the source/blog that I got this rumor from isn't considered creditable. So I don't consider this as a plausable time line unless I can find were it's mentioned in the LIBBY reporting months ago.

ANyone else recall anything different?

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

24. We'll Find Out This Evening

If it proceeds like the libby indictment did, we should know by Midnight EST tonight what tomorrow will bring.

[npincus]

46. pleae refresh my memory...

how specifically would we know by midnight the nite before? What happened last time?

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

78. Last Time

I went back to look at when the posts started coming in re:libby's indictment. It was around 8:40 PM PST on Thursday October 27. By the next morning, it was everywhere, Fitzgerald had announced a press conference, and libby had resigned.

I suspect similar if rover's announcement is coming tomorrow. My guess would be to check late tonight, and hopefully word will have started "leaking" out. I believe that MSNBC and CNN were the first to have "Breaking News" reports that Thursday night.

[Spangle]

25. THANK YOU! Tired of the flood of threads on the same subject

It pushes other topics out of site.

[rodeodance]

40. not only that. It is difficult to have a sustained conversation when new

threads keep popping up all the time. a few comments are made-some of which i wish would go more in depth-and they sink quickly. this is a cool idea.

[petersjo02]

27. The 24 hours thing

Some people seem to be all bent out of shape about the 24 hours thing, assuming, likely incorrectly, that it meant all info would be provided publicly after 24 hours and since it hasn't it MUST be wrong. I didn't see anywhere in Jason's article where it said the info would become PUBLIC in 24 hours, only that Rove was given 24 hours/business hours to get his affairs in order. Will said to wait. I'm content to wait (although very anxious). I wish the Will/Jason bashers would just shut up and let this all play out. They have nothing constructive to add to the debate.

[Goblinmonger]

34. So Fitz

tells Karl that he has 24 hours to get his shit in order. And then waits 3+ more days before doing anything? :wtf: Why didn't he tell him he had 72 hours to get stuff in line? Or whatever number of hours we are at?

So discussing whether journalists are doing a good job or just putting out BS isn't constructive?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. Hmmm. So, it's not possible in your way of thinking that....

...the situation may have changed AFTER Leopold wrote his article? Aren't you assuming that once something is publicly posted that everything becomes totally static at that point in time?

Interesting.

[Goblinmonger]

53. No, I'm sure it could have changed.

But that is not what Leopold has said. The only "change" they made was to the original article to 24 BUSINESS hours, which, apparently, stretches into next week.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. We're still in THIS week, are we not? And no, the 24 business hours....

...have nothing to do with NEXT week.

[arwalden]

104. Banker's Hours...

That means, uh, *seven* days to you and me. And seven "business days"... well, ush... that's 10 days to you and me. Ten I tell ya! TEN!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Good pick-up on the "24 hours" issue. Thanks.

[theboss]

37. Fine..what does "get his affairs in order" mean?

I highly doubt that Rove will be unable to post bail.

He would have to: 1. Be ready to turn himself over to the Marshalls and 2. Have a resignation letter ready, I guess.

Even that is odd, regardless of the 24 hours part.

[arwalden]

111. Indeed... It's Not Like He's Been Dragged Away To The Gallows...

... it's not as though his staff (lawyer?) hasn't already prepared a boilerplate resignation letter.

What "affairs" does he have to get in order that he wouldn't have already done, or that his staff couldn't do for him?

That makes no sense.

[Sammy Pepys]

38. I think it's the lack of consistency....

...that has accompanied the 24 hours thing (and to another extent the 15 hours thing) that has thrown doubts into peoples mind. If they can't get those details straight, what else are they missing?

My own thought is that these details have been provided as some sort of proof of how thorough these sources are....but that can also backfire.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

41. Amen

That 24 hours thing bothered me too, but in a story like this, there is clearly much that we don't know.

The endless discussion is just killing time until we all get our wish, which is an indictment signed, sealed and delivered to K. Rove.

Patience, patience....

[stop the bleeding]

44. fucking amen

same thing said in post# 13:banghead:

[Taxloss]

76. Spin, spin, spin ... how long can that 24 hours stretch?

I can imagine what will be claimed if Rove is indicted two weeks from today, and the indictment is dated 20 May 2006 - it was actually issued on the 12th, the 24 hours were calculated according to the Roman calendar, there were long lunches, you're not taking into account Jewish and Zoroastrian holidays, it's to do with daylight savings time and early closing laws in the great state of Wyoming, the 24 hours thing is a code from Fitz to true believers that he's being held in the White House cellar, it's entirely normal for people to continue working long after their indictment, the Leopold story was word perfect and anyone who says otherwise is COCKROACH TRAITOR CRETIN SCUM WHO MUST BE EXTERMINATED.

[stop the bleeding]

81. LOL

Not! - don't quit your day job your attempts at humor is only rivaled by that of the great exulted Chimpy McClueless.

[Taxloss]

88. I can't hold a candle to how funny your posts on this issue are.

Seriously - you're the king of comedy, and it gets funnier with every passing day. I can imagine you on DU in 50 years time when Rove dies in his sleep of old age, posting: "Leopold was right! The strain of the impending indictment killed Rove! I stand by Truthout!"

[stop the bleeding]

93. so sorry

that you find humor in my posts that is really not the point, it just shows how misguided in your interpretations really are.

keep setting them up and I'll keep on knocking them down, next...



on edit: I can see how posts like this are fucking hilarious:crazy: btw it is post# 13 but you already knew that.

there are several people out there who have been judge, jury, and executioner on this matter about TO instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to see how this plays out. They(TO) could have retracted the story on Monday but they didn't, in fact they ratcheted it up a few more degrees by putting themselves out further with interviews and articles since then.

WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Wed May-17-06 04:02 PM
Original message

When the documents come out

they will have dates on the top.

Those dates will be Friday May 12, 2006.

Just as we said.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1217129&mesg_id=1217212

[Taxloss]

105. Yes, so far

Pitt's assertions on this case have proven to be nothing but entirely accurate. How can they not be accurate? He's said it will happen on every day of the week! First it's Friday, then it's Monday, then it's Thursday or Friday, then it's some unspecified point in the future.

Would you like to make a cash bet on the documented date of the Rove indictment? Because it will not be 12 May.

[stop the bleeding]

113. that is not the point of my post

go re-read it again

patience is a virtue for some people it is mythical

[Taxloss]

118. I have now re-read it.

You're right, I shouldn't be finding it funny. Because it's really freaking sad that so-called "truthseekers" are still defending this fat slice of baloney. If this was happening on Free Republic, we at DU would be laughing ourselves silly.

[DancingBear]

98. After much research, I have solved the "24 business" riddle!

The "24" is actually binary, so it turns out that as long as Rove turns himself in within 11,000 days then Leopold is correct!!!

Whew.

[myrna minx]

32. Thank you! n/t

[symbolman]

43. Here it comes, watch for it

the FLOOD of..

Apologists. Angry too. This will be attack anyone that bring UP THE SUBJECT day. Don't forget to vote for your favorite person for School President.

But the 24 Biz hours are up today. (Tho some are actually trying to stretch them into NEXT WEEK...

And if you are sick of it, then why post at all?

Just let me ask those that say the Truth doesn't matter, that missing some little thing like a HEADLINE being wrong or wanting to wait two weeks more to see if he's RIGHT..

Suppose that Fitz was WRONG with his Facts, and didn't have the TRUTH as OUR SHIELD, don't you think that Rove would WALK Away scott free?

The truth hurts because it's IMPORTANT.

[Taxloss]

52. As I said

while breaking the news of President Ford's untimely death, "the story can still be right even if all the facts are wrong!". I was joking, of course. But just remember: YOU'RE the bad guy.

:hi:

[Oversea Visitor]

47. WoW Pink Look Hot singing Dear Mr President

:rofl:

[IChing]

48. Good Idea let the locking begin.....about time ...thanks what about polls?

[DoYouEverWonder]

55. Thank you

Good idea.

[im10ashus]

56. Did something happen with Leopold and Rove?

I hadn't heard. :sarcasm:

[tjwash]

58. Good, now do one of these for immigration threads and it'll be perfect.

[robcon]

60. Wait for Fitz.

I don't believe Leopold. I think he made it up, or his source was lying to him.

Rove will be indicted: wait for Fitz.

[fishnfla]

61. The blogo-"gotcha" game, journalistic integrity and THC

Doesnt this all seem like dope?

Now exposing the My Lai massacre, watergate, the pentagon papers, those were real scoops.

This internet game of one upmanship is like doing bong hits after a Duke lacrosse stag party.

The ultimate irony is: Fitz is investigating leaks. And we have this story leaked from his camp. Pot and kettle. If its true he is pissed, I'd bet.

To top it off, journalistic sources are already paranoid after Judith Miller, and now the NSA tracking reporters calls. Now this cruxifiction

And then IO think of what happened to Dan Rather and 60 minutes and the TANG documents. That guy Buckhead sure was johnny on the spot.

Forget the kool aid, pass me a joint

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Hmmm. Was it leaked from Fitz's camp? I thought the sources....

...Leopold used were in the White House.

Other sources have been mentioned by others confirming the story, but none that I recall have used sources in Fitz's camp.

[fishnfla]

86. Point taken and well put

Reliabilty of sources, the larger issue, remains.

CapitolHillBlue had some WH sources that were real doozies

[Snivi Yllom]

96. how's this for a kooky idea

Fitz's team leaked false rumors in his own house cleaning mole hunt

Is that paranoid enought yet?

[symbolman]

62. you know

this reminds me a LOT of like being stuck at the Kiddie Table during Thanksgiving..

I have to disagree Skinner, I'm sorry but this seems too restrictive in a way..

Your board, and thanks for thinking of keeping it to a dull roar, but this is going to let Leopold off the hook on any number of issues, and you yourself raised an issue three times in one thread to make sure it was not a mix up, with this situation people will be talking at cross purposes. A fan club tunnel. :)

[princehal]

65. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm good food!

Sure is tastey when we eat our own...

[yodermon]

71. What about WILSON and LARRY JOHNSON?

1) No one seems to care that Joseph Wilson and Larry Johnson have confirmed this story. Does their word count for nothing? If Leopold/truthout has been duped, then so has Johnson & Wilson.
see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1183131&mesg_id=1183804

2) Google "24 business hours". Keep the quotes. You'll get 343,000 responses. Ignore the first 2.
This is a commonly used phrase, and it is NOT synonymous with "3 business days". It means 24 hours from now, unless that lands you on a weekend or holiday. In that case, it's the same time on the next business day. That means Karl had until sometime on Monday 5/15 to "get his affairs in order".

[Nederland]

77. Just to clarify

Joseph Wilson and Larry Johnson have NOT confirmed this story. An anonymous poster claiming to be one of these two confirmed the story.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Wrong.

[sabra]

116. see below

peace.

[sabra]

112. TalkLeft confirmed that it was Larry Johnson

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014842.html

<snip>

One last note on former CIA Analyst Larry Johnson's comment on Democratic Underground that Joseph Wilson received the same information as Jason: Some have questioned whether Larry really wrote the comment, or whether it was an imposter. I e-mailed Larry, and he responded, indeed it was him. He added,


Joe heard the same things but not from Jason. If these multiple sources are lying then I certainly hope Jason outs their a*s.

[sheelz]

85. Geez

1) Rumor
2) It's vague and time is up.

[SteppingRazor]

101. So, one person claiming to be Larry Johnson...

posts that he and Wilson both back this story, and you just credulously believe him? Why?

[sabra]

115. TalkLeft confirmed that it was Larry Johnson

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014842.html

<snip>

One last note on former CIA Analyst Larry Johnson's comment on Democratic Underground that Joseph Wilson received the same information as Jason: Some have questioned whether Larry really wrote the comment, or whether it was an imposter. I e-mailed Larry, and he responded, indeed it was him. He added,


Joe heard the same things but not from Jason. If these multiple sources are lying then I certainly hope Jason outs their a*s.

[Caution]

72. I don't see how this situation shows a lack of integrity from JL?

He reported something that came from sources. If those sources were wrong or lied to him, why is this a knock on JL's integrity? It's not like he made the story up out of thin air or anything. We'll know in the near future if Rove is indicted. I just don't understand why there are so many impugning his integrity at this point. It's not as if sources from news stories haven't been wrong before.

(And I'm not saying he is wrong or right here, just that to attack his integrity over the fact that he reported what sources told him and those sources to this point *appear* to have been wrong is not fair to Leopold).

[Media_Lies_Daily]

84. The naysayers are almost universally claiming that Leopold lied....

...about the story, and that he never had any sources.

[GOTV]

91. I guess we include sources...

... when we estimate the credibility of a journalist. If his sources are poor, or not reliable, he is poor or not reliable.

It's not saying he's not a nice guy or that he doesn't have the highest regard for journalistic ethics. It's just saying he may not be good at developing the kind of sources that can be relied on for matters of this magnitude.

Or maybe the ball just took a bad bounce this time, which will suck for him.

[madokie]

75. great, now we can get on with the peoples business

someone has too, most of our representatives aren't.

[dubyaD40web]

80. ***FROM WAYNE MADSEN REPORT***

May 17, 2006 -- LATE EDITION -- WMR can report tonight on more details concerning the confusing reports regarding Karl Rove and Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald from last Friday. WMR can confirm that the appearance of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales before the Grand Jury at the US Federal Courthouse in Washington was a formality in which the jury informed the Attorney General of their decision to indict Karl Rove. That proceeding lasted for less than 30 minutes and took place shortly after noon. Gonzales's personal security detachment was present in the courthouse during the Grand Jury briefing. From the courthouse, Gonzales's motorcade proceeded directly down Constitution Avenue to the Department of Justice.

According to sources within the Patton and Boggs law firm, Karl Rove was present at the law firm's building on M Street. WMR was told by a credible source that a Patton and Boggs attorney confirmed that Fitzgerald paid a visit to the law firm to inform Rove attorney Robert Luskin and Rove that an indictment would be returned by the Grand Jury against Rove. Contrary to other reports, some of which may have emanated from the Rove camp in order to create diversions and smokescreens, the meetings at Patton and Boggs did not last 15 hours nor was a 24-hour notice of intent to indict delivered to Rove. In the Scooter Libby case last October, after the Grand Jury decided to indict Libby on Friday, October 21 and the Attorney General personally heard the decision the same day at a meeting with the jury, the actual indictment was issued the following Friday, October 28. Several sources have told WMR that an announcement concerning the indictment of Rove will be made on Friday, May 19 generally following the same scenario from October 28, 2005 -- the posting of the indictment on the Special Prosecutor's web site followed by a press conference at Main Justice.

WMR was also told by a credible source that part of the reason for Fitzgerald's visit to Patton and Boggs was to inform Rove attorney Luskin that he has moved into the category of a "subject" of the special prosecutor's investigation as a result of a conversation with Time reporter Viveca Novak, in which Novak told Luskin that Rove was a source for Time's Matt Cooper. The special prosecutor, who has prosecuted one defense attorney in the Hollinger case, is reportedly investigating whether Luskin, as an officer of the court, may have violated laws on obstruction of justice.

WMR has also discovered that last year Rove, realizing he remained a lightning rod in the CIA Leakgate scandal, made preliminary plans to move into the private sector from the White House to take political heat off the Bush administration. However, as it became clear that he was in over his head legally and his legal bills piled up, Rove decided to remain at the White House.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

[Taxloss]

94. Oh, well, if Wayne Madsen says it's true, then I'm sold! It must be true!

Sure, a handful of naysayers may have claimed that he's utterly unreliable, and I'm still waiting for the scoop he promised on election fraud some years ago, but I STAND WITH WAYNE!

[spindrifter]

82. Isn't KKKarl's recent flurry of activity--

loading him with speeches to try to deflect blame from *, quite likely the final preparations of a guy who knows his political capital will fall faster that the 1929 stockmarket PDQ?

[sojourner]

109. Yep...not only that, but note that his meeting with House Repugs

didn't really last long. He came, he met and he jammed out-a-there baby! Not really there for discussion, just for show IMO.

[5X]

83. The Du Willi Code

stories of journalistic intrigue.
Secret codes: 24, 72, 15.

[kpete]

92. This is a huge relief to me - thank you

It has gotten to be such "hard work" to keep up with news, opinions, insults, speculations, etc...

This is going to take me to a better place...

Ommmmmmmmmmm....

[magpie]

95. Thanks Skinner.

I find it handy to have this all in one thread.
But, I have a question-
When you say approximately 100 replies, do you mean 100 (the number That follows 99) or 100 over the next day or so, or maybe 10 posts over 10 days? Will you be doing this throughout the day (meaning this 24 hours) or will you be doing it over 8 hour intervals over the next three days?

[mike_c]

103. LOL....

:rofl:

[leveymg]

97. If only we had done the same thing for immigration, and Iran, we would

have saved a lot of acrimony at DU. There can be no doubt that there are a few issues that just tear people apart here, and they require special treatment before DU turns into a bulletin board for hate speech.

This is a serious problem, and if the Official Thread approach works for this topic, it should be applied to other contentious issues.

Please consider doing the same thing for further immigration and Iran postings.

[PRETZEL]

99. Thanks for making one clearing house for this topic,

There was alot of different threads going on at once.

I must admit that I'm pretty confused. Some things are for sure though. There are alot of people who have staked their professional reputations (and quite frankly their own personal reputations) on Jason Leopold's article. I would hope (but I'm pretty confident they did) that they are not doing this blindly. I say this not because of Mr. Leopold's past but because of the hugh risk involved in this story.

As for my own opinion I'm much less concerned about whether or not dates are as exact as what was claimed, whether or not the "24 hours"/"24 business hours" is parsed down to exactly what day is meant. My concern (at least as it my opinion) is that the claim that Karl Rove has already been indicted and the issue of whether or not this indictment has been served. Since there's no public filing it's my guess the indictment hasn't been served and entered into the public record. I'm still not sure about the whole issue of a "sealed indictment" as yet undelivered. It's my guess that it's because of this issue that the whole scenario surrounding Rove's attorney's offices meeting for whatever time (and I really could care less whether or not it was 15 minutes or 15 hours) that would precipitate the claim of Rove getting his affairs in order. At the time of Libby's indictment there was speculation that there was also a sealed indictment handed up to the judge. I guess the latest set of articles and rumors have brought this issue back into question for me. From what I've read (or at least to the best of my understanding) an indictment can be issued but the prosecutor has to present a motion to the judge to have that indictment remain unissued. If I understand that correctly there has to something more serious in the indictment that is outside what Libby was indicted on. It just doesn't make sense because it has the appearance of being a political decision as apposed to a legal decision for Fitz to do that. That just seems to go against his handling of the case so far. So right now I'm at a crossroad as to what's missing in the Rove indictment (or lack of indictment). I guess at this point I seem stuck (and not being a lawyer I have no clue) as to whether or not other people can be named on the same indictment as Karl Rove (ie Dick Cheney) and whether or not there are charges more serious than the much speculated perjury, obstruction, and lying to a grand jury (ie, conspiracy, leaking of CIA agent) that has prevented Fitz from formally issuing the indictments.

Anyway, I'm just going to keep reading what's going on and try to gain a better understanding.

edit for typo

[arwalden]

100. How Does An Indicted Man Keep His Security Clearance?

[Taxloss]

108. Well, he's under arrest,

so technically he's the most honest man in the White House!

[kstewart33]

106. Does anyone have Fitz's website url? nt

[Autumn Colors]

110. here you go

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc

[Autumn Colors]

107. Subtle change on Fitzgerald's website

It was suggested I should post this to the thread devoted to Rove, etc.

OK, this could mean nothing, but....

I've been keeping tabs on Patrick Fitzgerald's website and just noticed that within the last couple of hours, the background color on the section with all the news links has been changed (indicating to me that the webmaster is currently working on the site to make some changes) ....

Could that person be in there to add a link announcing a press conference?

OK, I know I'm grasping at straws here, but I wish they'd make an announcement already.

Link to his website: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/

Websites don't just change like that unless someone's been in there tweaking things.

[Taxloss]

114. Check your monitor. That may be screen burn. n/t

[arwalden]

117. Yes...It's Definitely A Clue That Something Is Up. But What Could It Mean?

What's the secret message he's trying to signal to someone?

[The empressof all]

119. Locking

Please continue discussion on thread #2 here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1225093