I don't understand the furor over the NG doing border patrol

[TechBear_Seattle]

Isn't the primary function of the National Guard to defend this country? It seems to me that border patrol is far more within the job description of the NG than invading and occupying foreign countries. Given how easy it is to walk in to the US from Mexico and especially Canada, it seems ridiculous to have extreme security measures at airports but not at the borders. What am I missing?

[mdmc]

1. I think they are still tied up overseas with something

Perhaps we should have a Border Patrol Guard or and Immigration and Naturalization agency or something to handle border security.

[blm]

2. Because the National Guard is already stretched to breaking - hire border

guards and let THEM do the job they're trained for.

[Virginia Dare]

4. Not to mention...

there are hundreds of our border patrol serving in Iraq

:crazy:

[MadHound]

3. Well, other than some serious legal questions involving Posse Comitatus

There is a real fear in many states that the Guard is being stretched dangerously thin. What with both fire and hurricane coming up quickly, and the vast numbers of Guardsmen now deployed overseas, diverting 6000 NG troops to the border for an indefinite time period is going to leave some states dangerously short handed, especially when an emergency rises.

[Saturday]

7. I've seen numbers floating around....

saying that we had 40,000 in Iraq and now there are only 17,000. I wonder if this is true. In that case it seems they would not be too thin. My problem is that they want to rotate them in for 2 weeks at a time. Ridiculous. By the time they get there their 2 weeks will be over.

[Lerkfish]

12. keep floating those numbers. So, you're NOT supporting the troops?

LOL.

what is your angle, here?

honestly, I"m trying to see what your point is: that the NG is not being unduly misused?

If so, I'd strongly disagree.

[Saturday]

20. I'm just discussing the issue.

Saying what I heard, waiting for comments on it. Just discussing the issue.

[realisticphish]

5. frankly

i think a lot of people just don't like the idea of armed border guards. To some people it might seem kind of soviet :shrug:

[Wickerman]

6. Money to hire adequate border patrol has been in budgets

for some time. BushCo has not deemed the subject worthy until now, when his poll numbers are down. So, a bunch of guys who are already over-taxed in their part-time, pay for college commitment, who may have already paid a price by spending a year or two in combat now get to be window dressing for a morally bankrupt Pretzledunce. That's my problem with using the guard, ymmv.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

14. Just another attempt by Chucklenuts to cover his a$$

and won't solve anything. 9/11 Commission recommended 2,000+ new guards - Chucklenuts and the repugs budgeted for only 210. He has ignored the border, security, immigration etc. for 5 1/2 years but since the mid-terms are looming on the horizons this is his "issue du jour" for the faithful.

He is evidently going to pull National Guard troops out of his ass to pretend he is actually doing something constructive. Ignore hurricanes, done. Ignore drowning on the Gulf Coast, done. Start a war against a country that never attacked us, done. Letting our #1 enemy still roam the earth making videos and plans, done. Ignore port security, done. Pretend he is doing something on terrorism while making it worse - much worse, done. Trash the Constitution, double done. Make the rich, richer, the poor poorer and healthcare available for the have and have mores, done, done, done. This is all he has and he doesn't care if it works, doesn't work, he just needs some repug talking points for the Sunday morning talk shows.

NG is stretched too thin and why on earth would anyone think the Pentagon could actually prepare, plan and pull off guarding our borders? They have screwed up Iraq so let's not give them too much credit in deploying and completing a mission on the borders. (Not the troops - the damn generals who have their heads of Chimpy's butt begging for another star.) So in another effort to downplay this asswipe's failures - we become an armed camp with military personnel guarding the borders. I don't like illegal immigration but is this the best we can do?

[WildClarySage]

8. Because the problem isn't people coming here illegally.

The problem is that they are able to find work when they get here. If there was no work, they wouldn't come here. The process of coming here is very dangerous and exploitative. This is not a security issue, IMHO, it's a human rights one. By manning the borders with NG, it becomes more dangerous without addressing the root cause of the problem. There need to be enforced penaltlies for hiring illegal workers.

[treestar]

17. Right, but only if we make immigration laws simpler and more

reasonable about getting alien labor that is needed here. And there is such a thing. Americans fail to understand that some employment leads to other employment. Americans could lose more jobs than gain by leaving the jobs the aliens are currently doing unfilled. The economy is just not that static.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. There are actually two issues going concerning the national Guard.........

.....and the first issue is that the "WH Idiot" and his "Shoot Them In the Face" sick kick have over extended our National Guard as it is. Putting the National Guard on the southern border will extend them even more and probably beyond the breaking point.

Number 2 issue is that in our laws there is a specific law prohibiting (can't remember it's name right now) the National Guard from serving in a law enforcement capacity on American soil. This was created to prevent the National Guard from being used by the government against fellow American citizens.

Now, as for securing our southern border, that is indeed needed and was needed years ago too. So the sooner that southern border gets shut down the better. I'm of the opinion that about 10,000 border guards should be hired and trained and then put along that southern border. But I also think we will do ourselves a huge disfavor if we ignore that northern border and focus only on the southern border.

[endarkenment]

13. posse comitatus

The law marked the official end of post civil war reconstruction (and just to totally muddy the waters here, the official start of Jim Crow segregation laws and the imposition of a modified form of feudalism known as share cropping on the black population of the south, as the black population was disenfranchised, separated from the white population, and generally returned to a condition of servitude.)

It is illegal for the military to act in a law enforcement capacity. They may certainly defend our borders FROM ATTACK, but the military should never have law enforcement powers except under a real emergency, unless of course you would like to live under a military dictatorship.

[Minnesota Libra]

22. Thank you - I knew there was a specific name for that law. nt

[life_long_dem]

10. I think Congress approved the hiring of 10,000 additional BPA's.

But, ** only hired 210 of them.

[AverageJoe]

11. Your papers, please

I don't like the sound of that. Do you?

[chelsea0011]

15. As the above posts note there is not enough left to do the work, but also,

do we want the miltary doing this? The NG is dispatched during a crisis. Does this qualify? Do we want drones flying around gathering information? There is an agency that does border patrol. Why add another agency instead of increasing staff for the already established agency. The NG is not a full time job. But this administration has completely changed the rules for this group. They are being asked to do way beyond what they signed up for.

[treestar]

16. "Defend" from military attack - liking illegal migrants to an army

is a metaphor that only goes so far.

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. I was trying NOT to make that comparison

But if honest people looking only for work can get it, then dishonest people looking to do harm can also get it.

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. So there seems to be two issues

First, posse commitatus. I can certainly understand that concern.

Second, the fact that the National Guard makes up such a large part of the Iraq occupying force and that the NG troops at home are already spread very thin. I definitely agree with that; I have been against NG deployment overseas from the very beginning.

Thanks for the insight :hi:

[Spangle]

24. NG means TEMPORY man powe. IT's a PR stunt

People should be hired to fill the job placement of gaurding the boarders. WHich is what would happen if this was a PERMENT idea to truely gaurd the boarder. By sending the NG, eventualy those numbers could be decreased without a whole lot of public eyeballing it. OR when it's no longer a 'hot' issue.

To GWB, the NG is a 'quick' labor force. tHey have to 'go' when ordered to do so. Just like when they were sent to Iraq. GWB was able to expand his military force, without expanding the actual military.

The NG could be sent quickly and in place quickly.. Like in time for elections. Radical right wing wants the boarders closed and consider this a campaign promise. This would be a quick full fillment. But NOT a perment solution.

AT this point GWB doesn't consider the LAW as something to worry about. Never has, he is top dog and that is it. Above the law.

This whole thing as being painted to keep the illeagls out. THat is a very little problem compared to the drug runners, 'terrorist' type persons trying to sneak in, etc. There are real reasons that we should consider closing the boarder. It really is a joke to force car after car to wait HOURS before crossing the boarder, when some can just walk across.

ALso, this makes it harder for Americans to get cheep goods (meds) over the boarder and bring them home.

So the ISsue is the election coming up and how GWB can seem to full fill a campaign promise and stir the pot for the GOP.

[librechik]

21. we already have a border patrol, hurting for cash--hire 10,000 more

Shrub hates ALL GOVERNMENT--that he didn't invent out of his ass. He'd rather make a new bureaucracy or be macho and order the military around to impress the drooling class.

[TheCowsCameHome]

23. Aren't these border activities actually going to be training exercises?

How strange is that?