Holy "Handmaid's Tale," Batman! - Consider yourselves "Pre-Pregnant"

[Lisa0825]

Holy "Handmaid's Tale," Batman!
Want to get really freaked out? Check out the first paragraph of today's Washington Post story "Forever Pregnant," which explains that new federal guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ask "all females capable of conceiving a baby to treat themselves -- and to be treated by the health care system -- as pre-pregnant, regardless of whether they plan to get pregnant anytime soon."

Pause. Breathe. OK. What?

Apparently, all women "between first menstrual period and menopause" are now supposed to take supplements of folic acid, refrain from smoking, maintain a healthy weight and watch chronic conditions like asthma and diabetes. Other recommendations, mentioned lower down in the Post piece, are that women stay away from cat feces and "discuss the danger alcohol poses to a developing fetus."

Why stop there? What about avoiding sushi, uncooked meats and unpasteurized cheeses? Perhaps women should only be allowed on planes once it has been determined, by routine pelvic exams administered at the gate, that they are not carrying a fetus that could experience trauma midflight.

What's this all about? According to the Post, "experts say it's important that women follow this advice throughout their reproductive lives, because about half of pregnancies are unplanned and so much damage can be done to a fetus between conception and the time the pregnancy is confirmed." So even when we're not pregnant, or have no intention of becoming pregnant, or have already been pregnant and are done having babies, we should make our theoretically possible but wholly imaginary fetuses our priorities.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/05/16/pre_pregnant/index.html (salon premium or daypass required)


Frightening times we live in! This concept could innocently be a way to lower our infant mortality rates, but considering the regime we live under, I'd suspect it's just another way to control us even more. If the fetus is the only thing important, and if all women are seen in terms of post-childbearing, pregnant or pre-pregnant, then how much of a stretch is it to start limiting our rights to protect our "future fetus"?

I really don't think I can live in this country under another Republican regime, not while I'm still young enough to be an incubator.

[shain from kane]

1. Get thee to a bhurka. n/t

[benddem]

2. it really would be good

if we could get all young women to take folic acid supplements. We know that folic acid deficiency in pragancy leads to spina bifida and other neurological problems. This is a really cheap preventive measure which would save billions in health care dollars as well as the problems for the child and parents.

[lukasahero]

10. What about those of us young women who have no interest

or intention of having children? Perhaps we could begin to qualify what "all young women" need to do based on what the individual young woman wants for her life? If she has interest in having children then encouraging her to take the supplements is justified. If not, perhaps we could let her decide how to live her own life as an individual separate and apart from her ability to bear children?

[Maru Kitteh]

56. Many young women who have no interest or intention do in fact become pg

And many of them do decide to carry the fetus to term. It would be nice if ordinary foods like orange juice, cereals and breads were fortified with this nutrient to avoid one of the most preventable birth defects around.

I don't think the poster was trying to force you personally to get pregnant and deliver, just saying that it happens, and we would all be better off if this supplement were more pervasive.

[REP]

68. We Don't Exist (or We'll Change Our Minds) Despite Being 20%+ of US Women

I have a tubal ligation (actually, a tubal fulguration in which my Fallopian tubes were almost completely burned out) so it's unlikely I'll change my mind, so I will continue to not exist. So I guess I don't need to manage my chronic diseases, or take folic acid (good for anyone's heart) since I won't be an ambulatory incubator serving God, Country and Church.

[Dorian Gray]

93. Nope...you don't exist....

you are invisible to this patriarchal society.

[REP]

100. The Other Response to Post #10 Illustrates That!

[BrklynLiberal]

18. What about pre-fertilization care for MEN? Aren't their sperm affected by

bad life-style choices? Are their smoking and eating and drug-taking habits going to be monitored?
Unhealthy sperm are afactor in infant death mortality too!!!

This is just one more way to try to control women!!!

[C_U_L8R]

29. the egg gets all the attention

pity the poor sperm

heehee

[TahitiNut]

57. Ubetcha. After all, the spermatazoon on meth swims so much faster

... and penetrates better, too. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

73. there's a freaky-funny cartoon somewheres in the imagery your post just

conjured up.

[TahitiNut]

79. This is the one I usually think of.

[FlaGranny]

89. Maybe every young man should

avoid pot, marijuana, and sex with another person because he might father a child. It might avoid problems with fetus conceived from possibly defective sperm from chemical substances. He perhaps also should take zinc to further insure his sperm stays healthy. Zinc is a very cheap preventative measure and it also insures prostate health.

[rodeodance]

3. We have a long history of excluding women because of the uterus. For

a while some headway was made. But slowly, we are regressing.

[intheflow]

4. K&R.

Totally "Handmaid's Tale" control issues. This is very scary and needs a higher profile so I K&R'd it. :kick:

[LizW]

5. Thank goodness for tied tubes!

But don't worry, younger women. I'll stand beside you and fight this crap with every ounce of strength.

We are women, NOT INCUBATORS!

:grr:

[MountainLaurel]

6. Another thread on the Post article

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=8198&mesg_id=8198

[6000eliot]

7. When they're menstruating, they also shouldn't walk past the cows,

because they'll curdle the milk.

[shain from kane]

11. Special shed, with no electricity, for a week. For the weak. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

59. Holy crap! I hadn't heard that one for YEARS

:LOL: While I do think it would be benificial to supplement ordinary foods with folic acid I gotta say the approach this article takes is just plain CREEPY.

[tavalon]

67. That's it exactly!

Those are all healthy things that any woman or man should do all the time, but to couch it in "incubator" insinuative terms is creepy.

[gkhouston]

95. excessively creepy.

I'm supposed to spend ~45 years of my life walking around thinking, "I could be almost pregnant"? :crazy:

I'm not knocking the idea of folic acid supplements, in fact I've been sure to take them during the times in my life when I've been sexually active, but this emphasis on "you might be pregnant" sounds like we're supposed to think about pregnancy all the time... as if "pregnant" should be our default or ideal state.

[tavalon]

97. When really

our default should be "I am human and I want to feel the best that I can so I'm going to do these healthy things" and that's really the way they should have phrased it with an after mention about low folic acid being a risk factor for spina bifida.

[MADem]

8. John Gibson will be thrilled!

He wants more a them there WHITE babies!!!!!

[karlrschneider]

9. "cat feces"? Okay, I'm officially freaked.

:eyes:

[jmowreader]

16. You got a cat, Karl?

Cat litter bags all say that pregnant women shouldn't change the litter because a parasite in the cat shit can cause toxoplasmosis and harm the developing fetus.

If the government has decided that every fertile woman is "prepregnant," this warning makes sense.

[karlrschneider]

25. We do have a cat but don't use litter...he goes out to poop.

Didn't realize humans could get toxo, learn something every day!

And there are no pre/current/post pregnant mammals in our house. ;-)

I sit corrected.

[phylny]

34. If your cat defecates in the neighborhood, then every woman

who lives there should be told so that they can be very careful when working in flower beds, etc.

I don't agree with the premise that all "fertile" women should walk around in a bubble, but toxoplasmosis is a dangerous thing for pregnant women.

Aside, imagine how much I loved finding cat shit in my kids' sandbox. Yeah, what a treat....

[karlrschneider]

35. We live out in the country and just about everyone in this lakeside

community has at least one cat so I guess either we kill them all or give out free BC pills...
:eyes:

[phylny]

36. It's great to see that down home, lakeside humor about a devastating

parasite.

:eyes:

[karlrschneider]

38. Well, thanks! Glad you appreciated it.

But seriously, what would you suggest we do to eliminate the risk? I'm willing to consider ideas.

[phylny]

40. As I said, let people know to take precautions when they're outdoors

working in the dirt.

Someone I know contracted toxoplasmosis while pregnant - how, she does not know.

Here's info:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/factsht_toxoplasmosis.htm#what

"Wear gloves when you garden or do anything outdoors that involves handling soil. Cats, which may pass the parasite in their feces, often use gardens and sandboxes as litter boxes. Wash your hands well with soap and water after outdoor activities, especially before you eat or prepare any food."

[karlrschneider]

42. I just did some research and got a quick education which tells me

that your advice is indeed sound, but according to what I've found, it can be transmitted by -many- different species of animals and birds. Washing hands before preparing food seems to be a no-brainer to me regardless of whatever health threat is under consideration. I think there's a bit of hysteria being promulgated here, everyone I know digs in the dirt and in my 64 years I've never heard of anybody getting ill from this infection. I suspect it's about as much of a danger as being run over by a bus.

[knitter4democracy]

80. It's only if you've never had it before, from what I heard.

I had had it before as a child or young person, apparently, as my test came back positive. I grew up in the country and always had indoor cats and barn cats around. I didn't take a chance with the litter, but that also was mostly to get my hubby to do it anyway. ;)

If you get it while preggers, it's a seriously bad thing. If you've had it before, though, it's not a risk or not as big a risk.

Still, the whole announcement thing is scary. What, like our only worth to the medical community is in the eggs we carry?

[Warpy]

12. Gotta keep that soil in your walking flower pot pure

although the suggestions are good ones for everybody, especially the no smoking and the folic acid supplements.

We can't make the world safe for every bay-bee that comes into it unplanned for. Life is full of risk, and the risk that Mom goes out and gets loaded the Saturday she realizes she might be pregnant is one of them.

Enslaving half the human race to a possibility is clearly insane.

But then so are the fetus police.

[Lady Effingbroke]

13. Fuck that!

I need a shot of whiskey. Or two. :grr:

[gollygee]

14. More future soldiers for the Fatherland

great. I'm pre-pregnant. How do I tell my husband?

[ovidsen]

15. One step beyond

I recall reading occasionally about a pregnant woman with an alcohol dependency being "detained" to protect the health of the fetus. That's a really tough call.

And I guess it's nice for the CDC to suggest the obvious... eat right, don't drink to excess, take your vitamins.... oh, and look both ways before crossing the street.

I cringe at the thought of these suggestions being mandatory for any group, not just women of child-bearing age. But IMO it'll never happen. Your average American, and even BushBots will say,"You can have my chicken wings and Bud Light when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers!!"

[BrklynLiberal]

17. What are the rules for the future fathers? Don't sprem count as part of

this process? Why is it only women who are going to be subjected to these rules.

How about some universal prenatal, post-partum and infant medical care, and easy access to contraception to lower the infant mortality rate?

This is one scary idea.

I would like to know more about the background of the GUY who came up with this plan.

[bvar22]

49. The Fathers....

...will be selected from the genetically approved, and screened for the appropriate attitudes.
There will be two classes, and appropriate sperm will be selected according to the Social class of the Mother.
1) The refined Elite destined to RULE (about 6%)
and
2) the Worker/Warrior Class, specificly bred for low intelligence and propensity for following orders.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Horse with no Name]

50. Must.ban.tightie.whities

Lowers the sperm count dontchaknow?;)

[bobbieinok]

19. for future fathers--what abt military endangering future babies? agent ora

orange?

[bobbieinok]

20. ?a positive? can't live near toxic dumps, ie companies have to clean up

[Lisa0825]

22. Oh, that toxicity stuff is just rumors....

Big Business is our FRIEND! /sarcasm

[Mandate My Ass]

21. Puts the onus of our piss poor healthcare system on the backs of victims

For-profit hospitals and big insurance have nothing to do with the dearth of affordable health care for women and children, the most vulnerable in our society. So let's just blame the victims rather than do anything that *gasp* costs money. We need that for perpetual war and missile defense shields :sarcasm:

At Montefiore Medical Center in Bronx, N.Y., a form that's filled out when checking a patient's height, weight and blood pressure prompts nurses to ask women, "Do you smoke, and do you plan to become pregnant in the next year? And if not, what birth control are you using?"

"It's a simple way of getting primary care providers to think about preconception care," said Peter Bernstein, a maternal fetal medicine specialist who sat on the advisory committee that helped produce the report. "It's simple and costs nothing."

[shain from kane]

23. I got something that's "simple and costs nothing". The middle finger

of my right hand, Mr. Peter Burn Stain. Land of the free, my ass.

[Triana]

24. ONE thing happy about being an older woman...

..I don't have to worry much longer about these goddamned control freaks dictating what I may and may not do with MY body anymore.

The American Taliban strikes again.

[readmoreoften]

26. As an lesbian, am I exempted?

Or do I have to keep myself prepped for a fetus in case I'm raped?

K&R.

[Maru Kitteh]

72. If you ever checked out fertiltiy boards you'd see TONS of lesbian couples

Trying to concieve families discussing methods, timing, etc. The sperm banks do a booming business to lesbian couples and single women who want a baby but are not to big on keeping a man around.

I think the article is creepy, but I just had to interject that just because a couple is same sex or a person is gay doesn't by any means preclude them from loving parenthood.

[Retrograde]

92. nope, no exceptions

Besides, you have to ready for when you come to your senses and get yourself cured of that perversion /sarcasm.

I think I'm an even worse perversion: hetero, married for many decades, and childless by choice. Will I still count as a citizen?

[shadowknows69]

27. So somebody is worried about mas sterilization

for some reason.

[BlackVelvet04]

28. and if you don't do these

things and have a child with physical problems will you be arrested for child abuse? Don't laugh, it could happen.

I had my uterus removed!!! :applause:

[robbedvoter]

30. Ceausescu's Romania: medical checks to dicover pregnancies

Abortions were of course forbidden - anf this way, your pregnancy was registered and monitored.
Why not? That permanent war ain't gonna fight itself ya know?

[Captain Hilts]

31. Um health of men and what they're exposed to affects babies too. nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Right. It's boxers only now, boys.

[Jade Fox]

33. Geez, we're not even woman now, but "females capable of....

conceiving a baby." Just in case you gals wondered what god put you here for. :sarcasm:

[Captain Hilts]

39. THANK YOU Jade Fox. 'Female' is not specific to humans!

It puts us in with cattle, etc.

[sutz12]

37. Waaaaaaaaaay over the top.

I could see these recommendations being acceptable for women who are actively 'trying to get pregnant' but, Lord a'mighty, all women of child bearing age? Right up there with abstinence only, in the "Butt the hell out and give me some real scientific data" category. Nice prop for the supplements industry, I'd say.

[Faygo Kid]

41. I used to be in shape. Now I look like I'm pregnant. As a guy.

Hips gave out; took three years to get em replaced, so gonna work on it in June, when I should be fully healed. Holy Calendar, Batman!

[raysr]

43. Run for your lives, the

"Christianists" are coming!

[politicat]

44. Never, never, never, never, never.

I am not and never will be pregnant again. Ever. I will maintain a healthy weight because it is good for ME, not some fictional future zygote. I will keep my alcohol consumption at a safe level because I like my liver, not because I have any issues with mutagens.

And while I haven't smoked in well over a year, I'm thinking about going out and buying a deck of cigs just to have around.

Anyone who tries to force me to have a kid I don't want is going to lose their eyes. I'd rather be dead than a walking womb.

[StellaBlue]

45. My only comment:

:puke:

[WestHoustonDem]

46. II'm clearly post-pregnant and plan to stay that way!

:wtf: That's how they'll try to end contraception! This womb is closed for business.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

47. In my role as a clinical RN, I've had some recent concerns about the CDC

Ten years ago, they were the definitive authority on many illness prevention issues.

Now, they are toeing some kind of party line. I've suspected they're in the throes of Big Pharma, and now believe they are serving another master than that of Community Health.

:grr: MKJ

[Solo_in_MD]

48. Its not just the CDC

Occupational Safety treats all women of child bearing potential as pregnant. That in turn lead to job restrictions in some high and low tech industries which lead lead to suits which really put the employer between a rock and a hard place

[Roland99]

51. I'm a man and I feel I have the right to say this and say it loud:

I'M NOT A WOMAN SO IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO DECIDE.



Now, imagine if the rich, white men ruining our country could manage the courage to do the right thing....for once?

[KAZ]

52. Silly boy. You are the DELIVERER!

You decide what gets delivered. The receiver needs to shut up and listen (and conceive)!

Anyway, some good medical/health advice (for the woman).

[Roland99]

53. I'm the PROVIDER DECIDER!

;)

[kestrel91316]

54. Ok, so I have a question...........

"Other recommendations, mentioned lower down in the Post piece, are that women stay away from cat feces".................is this the part where we go back to the 1960s and before, when women were specifically and pointedly excluded from the veterinary profession???? After all, we vets deal with a heck of a lot of cat feces. Back then they said it was because we would be wasting a slot, that we would just get married and have kids (and OF COURSE quit the profession, so why bother letting us in, in the first place). Now we have to protect nonexistent fetuses.

Furthermore, this displays downright ASTONISHING IGNORANCE of medical fact by none less than the CDC. We veterinarians pay attention to these things (like toxoplasmosis in cat feces), and there is NO statistical correlation between toxo infection and contact with cats. NONE. Americans get toxo from eating contaminated or infected AND INCOMPLETELY COOKED MEAT.

So does the CDC say women should watch what they eat in the way of rare lamb????? NO, they BLAME THE CATS. This is beyond stupid.

Hey ladies - you want to avoid infecting your EXISTANT fetus with Toxo??? Wash your hands after cleaning the litter box, clean it daily, don't let your cats "mouse" or eat incompletely cooked meat, and don't yourself eat incompletely cooked meat. And use good kitchen hygiene. It's that simple.

All women of childbearing age should AVOID CATS?????? I want some of what these dweebs have been smoking............

[Lisa0825]

55. Tell me how you REALLY feel!

:evilgrin:

Great rant! You know, I had no idea that there was no statistical correlation between toxo and contact with cats! All I ever heard was that pregnant women should not change the litter box and that whoever did clean it should clean it very frequently. so yes, I heard it was from cats, but no need to panic over it.

I might have children, I probably won't. Hell, I may or may not ever get married again. But I live my life for what I have HERE AND NOW, not for any potential spouse or child that most likely won't ever exist. I won't quit drinking, stop going to smoky dive bars, get rid of my cats, stop scuba diving, drive slower or stop eating junk food all because of what might possibly accidentally happen someday!

That being said, ain't nothin' wrong with eating healthy and taking vitamins, for YOUR OWN GOOD, and even especially if you PLAN on having children, but the day we start treating every woman as a potential incubator is the day we become the Handmaid's Tale!

[kestrel91316]

58. More on Toxo:

The pregnant woman is not at risk - it's her fetus that is, but only at a particular stage of gestation (mid or late, I forget). If she has prior immunity to it (blood test before pregnancy will show it) then she has protection and can EAT cat poop and not give Toxo to the fetus. If she has no one to clean the box for her while pregnant, she can do it herself - latex gloves, face mask, wash hands - NO paranoia, just common sense.

But the truth is, most of our Toxo infections in the US they think are due to exposure in our FOOD, and perhaps while gardening or farming (inadequate handwashing, obviously).

Years ago a client came to me, hysterical because she had just found out she was pregnant and her Ob/Gyn had ordered her to DESTROY HER HOUSECAT!!!!!!! I was practically homicidal over that one. I seriously wanted to know the doctor's name so I could personally end his career and in doing so protect the community from such pure, unadulterated COW MANURE!!!!!!!! I told the client the doctor was stupid, and spent an hour explaining responsible pet ownership for the expectant mother. BTW, isn't that subject for Ob/Gyn's to discuss???? Shouldn't THEY be the experts in it? Toxo isn't a cat disease of any significance, so why do I have to get involved?

rant off. I am getting too stressed over remembering this.

[knitter4democracy]

81. WTF?!

That doc was a full-on idiot. Sheesh!

I'm glad you posted all this. It confirms what I heard from my Ob/Gyn during my first pregnancy. I tested positive, so he told me not to worry but to still have Hubby clean the litter box if I wanted to (he said, since we had two cats and a huge box, to make Hubby do the lifting and all and get used to dealing with poop ;) ).

Honestly, there are crazy Ob/Gyns out there, and I am hearing of more all the time. It's scary to me--they're most women's main doc.

[suffragette]

65. It wasn't that long ago that women were barred from professions

that were deemed "dangerous" to them or a possible fetus in some way. Your question and reminder of how relatively recent that really was raises a good point on this.

The kind of mindset that is viewing women as receptacles is just the type that would love to go back to this past and put us back in "our place."

Of course, it's always interesting that the jobs barred to women tended to be prestigious or higher paying or just an overall decent way to make a living and there was nothing preventing women from working in hell-hole sweat shops like the Triangle Shirtwaist factory. But it's not about consistency or logic anyway, as your point about the CDC not including incompletely cooked meat shows. Thanks for the info about that.

This is truly disturbing.

[B3Nut]

75. I'll take the word of a Veterinarian

over the word of a human-side MD almost anytime. They're often smarter, truth be told. At the University of Wisconsin it's harder to get into veterinary medicine than human medicine. Heck, my wife is a vet assistant (not even a CVT, though she does almost everything a CVT does) and she knows more than these CDC wonks seem to all too often.

I'm surprised the fundies haven't gone after men with vasectomies yet. I better not give 'em any ideas.

Hats off to you Dr, btw. :)

Todd in Beerbratistan

[knitter4democracy]

82. Amen to that!!!

My hubby only had to study one species, not many. That alone makes me respect vets--having to know everything about all those different species of animals and work the same long hours and call for less pay.

[Kailassa]

103. Not only that, the vets I know are much more health oriented

than the average doctor. If you want to know what drug to take, see a doctor, but if you want to know how to recover properly and stay healthy, see a vet. ;-)

This is true of Australian vets, anyway, who have much more understanding of nutritional issues than the average doctor, and can often guess what the cause of a problem is when a doctor can't, because they are less inclined to think in a drug-company induced rut.

[Miss Chybil]

60. There's nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and/or an

accidental fetus. Here's a fact for you: women get pregnant. I don't see where it says these "guidelines" are mandatory. Are they lining women up to take their vitamins? Considering we have the second lowest infant survival rate in the western world, it makes sense to offer precautions to the people who grow the babies, i.e. women. It's like telling all people, male and female, to wear their seatbelts because people die in car crashes, or advising people not to smoke.

Perhaps we shouldn't even mention the FACT women get pregnant and men don't? Would that satisfy your political ideology? Nobody's going to cram an iron pill down your throat, but don't let your own political biases deny women of the information they need to grow healthy babies - whether they were planned for, or not.

And, just so you don't try to turn this into some kind of abortion argument on me, I'll inform you up front - I'm a "safe, rare and legal" pro-choicer. Oh, and I'm female and I've worked in male dominated professions my entire life. I believe in equal rights for women, but I don't pretend we are not different. We are different. Women are not men. Get used to it. But, just to make it fair, I'll say men need to take their vitamins, too.

[Lisa0825]

62. YOWZA! Bitter much?

Good grief! I didn't write the damned article!LOL

I think it's half reasonable and half freakin' scary! The trend with fundies in control is to treat women like involuntary receptacles, and I think that the verbiage in this article (not just the op-ed response) supports that POV. PRE-pregnant??? Gimme a break!

Should I stop anything that could be hazardous to a fetus considering the fact that the ONLY way I will ever be pregnant is accidentally? In your opinion, should ALL women be pressured to quit drinking alcohol, something not only legal, not only socially acceptable, but a typical toast for wedding receptions? Should I never scuba dive again? Should women of child bea rung age be barred from Mc Donald's?

If you think that this is only about guidelines for healthy living, you're delusional. If that were the case, it would be directed at men and women. I take that back. If this were TRULY bout healthy fetuses, it would be directed at both men and women, because healthy sperm are important as well. No, this is about CONTROL. It is about POWER. It is about SUBSERVIENCE.

[Miss Chybil]

85. Ok. You fight subservience. I'll take a vitamin.

Even so, I'm very post-pregnant. I've got four grown sons - two were accidents. The last two have ADHD. When I was 6 months pregnant with last one I laid on the frozen ground in West Germany with him in my belly, (I had to scoop out a little place for my stomach), to qualify with my M-16. I don't do subservience, ask my ex-husband. I would like to know, though, if there was anything I could have done differently that could have kept them from having the problems they do. So, if somebody has a theory and wants to put it out there I'm willing to consider it without putting on my "God, they're not going to let me get an abortion" hat.

[REP]

66. But Why Consider All Women - er, "Females" 'Pre-Pregnant'?

It's like considering the living to be pre-dead.

It makes sense for ANYONE with a chronic disease to manage it (and perhaps those with some chronic diseases should consider what effect a pregnanct would have on it; pregnancy is not always the bestest thing ever!!1!). Folic acid can help prevent heart disease in everyone, not just the 'pre-pregnant' but you wouldn't know that from just reading the mainstream health (sic) reports.

20%+ of US women choose not to be mothers (this does not include the infertile, who have no choice). We're not 'pre-pregnant.' Our way of "taking care" of an "accidental fetus" is a safe, legal abortion. Some of us have tried to take ourselves out of the game by getting sterilized. So tell me - I'm not menopausal, but I've had a tubal ligation ... am *I* 'pre-pregnant'?

[Miss Chybil]

84. Why consider pre-smokers potential lung cancer victims by telling

them, if they smoke, they could get cancer?

[REP]

99. Stupid Analogy

If you want to make the argument that pregnancy is a malignancy, go for it.

[Miss Chybil]

104. Thoughtless response. nt

[WestHoustonDem]

70. This isn't about choice, they're after contraception!

By defining all women as pre-pregnant the next logical step is to declare that contraception is killing potential babies. They can start by taking away the rights of pre=pregnant women to drink, smoke or even take physically dangerous jobs. These people are trying to turn back the hands of time, they see the equality for women as an aberration.

[Miss Chybil]

83. I don't see anybody taking away rights. I see them making suggestions.

There are already people who say, and have been saying for a long time, contraception is killing potential babies. That's nothing new, and to deny women the education they need to have healthy babies, whether on purpose, or by accident, because of those people is wrong. The same way it's wrong to not fund women's health clinics in foreign countries if they mention the word "abortion." People need to get off their high political agenda horses and think of what's best for women and the children they MAY give birth to.

[WestHoustonDem]

94. I'm not on a political high horse. They ARE trying to take away

our rights - not just reproductive. Freedom of speech, religion, privacy, freedom from illegal search and seizure, are just a few examples. And if we turn a blind eye to it, they might just be successful.

[Lisa0825]

96. Yeah, right... you go ahead and put your trust and faith in them.

Meanwhile, places like Blackjack, MO evict unmarried families. Ave Maria will be a planned religious city. Utah has banned abortion. Pharmacists refuse service. Hospitals refuse service.

If you can look at these various situations, happening all around the country and be just fine and dandy with it all, and not feel a reflex action to protect yourself from government interference, then go right ahead.... you can thank those of us later who stood up and said "NO!" when you wouldn't.

[BeTheChange]

91. Thank you...

for saying this. Because the fact is more pregnancies in the US are unplanned then planned. We have an appauling infant mortality rate. We have an appauling amount of children on medications and managing diseases like ADD, ADHD, Hyperactivity, Autism, Spina Bifida, etc.

If you take so much offense at these SUGGESTIONS (note, they are not freaking REQUIREMENTS), I do not understand why you wouldnt just go get a tubal litigation, oophrectomy or hysterectomy. If you do leave yourself open to pregnancy, it makes sense to have an environment for a child to grow in that isnt a cesspool of cigarette bi products, alcohol, etc.

[notadmblnd]

61. Sounds like they are taking the first steps in outlawing...

spontainious abortions too.

[Lisa0825]

63. There was some either legislation or

proposed legislation not long ago that would require any miscarriage to reported to the authorities. I'll have to see if I can find the link manana.

[notadmblnd]

69. I remember that.

thanks for reminding me.

[rox63]

71. I believe that legislation was proposed in Virginia

And the bill was withdrawn before it was ever voted on, because of the outrage it caused among the citizens of that state.

[Lisa0825]

74. Still, just the fact that it was proposed is frightening.

The fact that we live in a day and age when anyone would even think it is OK to propose such a thing makse me shudder.

:scared:

[Nicole]

64. Kick

:kick:

[Theres-a]

76. Jesus H. Christ on a raft

That is insane.

[Minnesota_Lib]

77. After they are no longer able to fattened the herd, out to pasture with em

[atommom]

78. Of course it's best for prospective mothers to be healthy and

well-nourished. I can't argue with that. Hell, it would be best for all of us to take good care of ourselves, eat well, and avoid substance abuse. But this is the kind of "nanny state" initiative that Repubs always lambasted Dems for in the past. This time, I imagine they think it's a legitimate government intrusion because it involves women and fertility. We've already seen their track record in those areas ... so of course we're suspicious.

[suffragette]

86. kick

:kick:

[The Witch]

87. The difference between folic acid and sushi

is that taking folic acid *throughout* your childbearing years greatly reduces your risk of bearing a child with birth defects. there's no link between eating sushi when you're *not* pregnant and having birth defects in your kids.

I can't speak for the rest, but that at least is not so Big Brother. "pre-pregnant" is a pretty awful coinage, though.

[Book Lover]

88. Link to the WaPo article here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/15/AR2006051500875.html

[Bridget Burke]

90. The Washington Post article looks at the big picture.

Although the Salon piece is more snarkily cute.

The U.S. infant mortality rate is higher than those of most other industrialized nations -- it's three times that of Japan and 2.5 times those of Norway, Finland and Iceland, according to a report released last week by Save the Children, an advocacy group....

The CDC report also discusses disparities in care, noting that approximately 17 million women lack health insurance and are likely to postpone or forgo care. These disparities are more prominent among minority groups and those of lower socioeconomic status, the report states.

The NCHS data also reflect these disparities. Babies born to black mothers, for example, had the highest rate of infant death -- 13.5 per 1,000 live births. Infants born to white women had a death rate of 5.7 per 1,000.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/15/AR2006051500875.html?referrer=emailarticle

Fertile women who are 100% sure that any pregnancy will result in an abortion can safely ignore the article.

The major recommendations are to "take folic acid supplements, refrain from smoking, maintain a healthy weight and keep chronic conditions such as asthma and diabetes under control." Mostly, these are good suggestions for all of us. Folic acid prevents neural tube defects & won't "hurt" anybody; my old lady vitamins include 100% of the daily requirement.

If you've been cleaning litter boxes for years, you've probably already been exposed to toxicoplasmosis.

[hyphenate]

98. Hell

I just turned 50--I want to make sure I DON'T ever become pregnant, especially now!!!

[Nikki Stone 1]

101. Hey CDC! Am I only a uterus to you guys?

Thanks for returning us to the dark ages guys.

[Kailassa]

102. I'm thoroughly in favour of this.

- provided they'll send someone around to attend to the litter tray and any accidents my cat has.

I've got better things to do anyway.

:toast: