Nightline - One Third of Women had an abortion by age 45

[RamboLiberal]

Anyone catch Nightline last night? They threw out the following two stats - I was so astounded I didn't note where they got them, but it seemed so outrageous I doubt they could be true. They profiled a Dr. William Harrison in Arkansas who is a doctor who provides abortion services. This Doctor seemed very matter-of-fact, perhaps too cavalier about abortion. To me this piece seemed heavily biased to the conservative viewpoint. Of course while looking for the stats below I happened on a Conservative website who painted this as pro-abortion piece designed to sabotage Alito appointment to SCOTUS. http://newsbusters.org/node/3562

I was curious if anyone on DU has the true stats on percentage of women who have had abortions. And what viewpoint of rest of you on DU on this Nightline episode. BTW the link I provided does have the complete transcript and ABC has story on doctor and video. http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1495429

MARTIN BASHIR: (Off-camera) For anyone who thinks that abortion is not a daily ritual of American life, then consider these statistics.

GRAPHICS: 1 IN 4 PREGNANCIES END IN ABORTION

MARTIN BASHIR: (Voiceover) One in four pregnancies ends in abortion. And at current rates, a third of all American women will have an abortion by the age of 45.

GRAPHICS: ONE THIRD OF AMERICAN WOMEN WILL HAVE AN ABORTION BY AGE 45

[LisaM]

1. That cannot be true. I absolutely don't believe it.

Further, they are probably factoring in people who have had multiple abortions, and counting them towards the total - e.g., you have ten woman, 2 have had abortions but one has had three abortions - but they could say the average, then, was four our of ten than two out of ten. I vehemently disagree with their statistic, but I'm also guessing they skewed their numbers this way.

[NNadir]

5. I know many women who have had abortions.

What of it?

It was a choice that most of them had to make at the time. Some felt bad about it; and some didn't, but again, this was their flesh and their choice.

Intuitively I have no doubt that some of the fetuses, had they been carried to term, would have resulted in very unfortunate children. It was well, I'd guess, that things worked out as they did.

I have two children and I love them very much, because my wife and I were prepared for them, and we wanted them. This too, worked out well. In different circumstances I could have proved a rotten father.

[SmokingJacket]

50. Why don't you believe it?

Sounds about right to me. :shrug:

I've never had one, but I think about a quarter to a third of my friends have...

[undeterred]

2. I've heard that 1in 3 pregnancies ends in miscarriage

and that 1 in 3 women is sexually assaulted in her lifetime.

[acmejack]

7. Wow, it is hard to believe any of those figures!

Especially that one in three women is sexually assualted. Do you think that is so?

[undeterred]

12. Actually I think its true

And I would add that the FBI estimates only 1 in 10 rapes is actually reported. Lots of these sexual assaults are between people who know each other- date or acquaintance rapes- or are attempted rapes.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[MountainLaurel]

38. An additional issue

Two-thirds of rape victims are under the age of 18 (half of those are under the age of 12), and there are so many extra reasons why those rapes wouldn't get reported: Almost always it's someone the child knows, the child is afraid to tell for fear that no one will believe them or that they'll get in trouble, the parent doesn't believe the child or doesn't want the child to have to go through testifying, the rapist is a boyfriend and the victim thinks she deserves it, the child doesn't realize what is happening to them is wrong (i.e., the rapist tells them something like "this is how all daddies love their little girls", etc.

[bleedingheart]

25. there are many women who miscarry that had no clue they were

pregnant in the first place...

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. its one thing women don't discuss openly so there is

absolutely no way to know. But I would wager that the numbers may be higher than anyone would guess.

This issue is so emotionally charged that any open discussion of it is impossible.

[underpants]

4. There were 1.3 million abortions last year in the US

Just a fact from the World Book

[demigoddess]

21. an early (first trimester) miscarriage is technically an abortion

it is referred to as a spontaneous abortion. I was once yelled at by a doctor because he read in my records " 2 spon. abortions". He did not pay attention to the spon. part. I wonder how many miscarriages are put into that report to make the numbers look worse than they are.

[underpants]

24. Okay I did not know that

Thank you

[Gormy Cuss]

34. I hope you yelled back

A doctor who doesn't notice the 'spontaneous' part is not someone I'd want taking care of me.
Not to mention, yelling at you period is not tolerable behavior. You're paying the asshole for professional services not paternalistic commentary.

[raccoon]

47. What a dick. And also lacking in reading comprehension. nt

[LisaM]

35. Well there are lot more than 3.9 million women

so the figure cannot be correct than 1 in 3 women have had abortions.

[sinkingfeeling]

36. There were over 6 million pregnant women in the US last year, and

1.29 million opted for an induced abortion. To arrive at the 1 in 3 will have an abortion before age 45, let's give those women about 35 to 42 years to be part of the statistic, so since abortion became legal in 1973 there have been about 42 million abortions spread out across about 180 million women. Some of those were not always around or old enough to be counted and some are way past the age of 45.

[LisaM]

40. That's one third of PREGNANT women - not of all women

that statistic is nonsense. Say my number of women friends and acquaintances is around 100, which it probably is. I can tell you right now that there is no way 33 of them have had abortions.

[sinkingfeeling]

45. Are they all over 45 years of age? Within my immediate family, 3 out 5,

or 60% of the females have had an abortion. 2 after 1973 and one, illegal in 1938. Out of my 50 to 60 year old friends approximately 50% have had an abortion. Of the 180 million women in the US, at least 42 million have had an abortion...that's 23% right there. Add to that those women who were of child-bearing age prior to 1973 when there were approximately 1 million abortions per year and I'd say we're really close to that 33% mark.

[Bozita]

6. ummm ... the doctor's name is William Harrison

Bashir is the Nightline anchor.

from the transcript:

"I was assigned a patient who was a middle-aged black woman," he explained. "She was a very sad looking woman. When I asked what was wrong she said she had a tumor in her belly. I examined her and quickly determined that it was a far advanced pregnancy."

But when he broke the news to this woman, her reaction was entirely unexpected.

"She looked at me and she began to cry. She said, 'Oh God doctor, I was hoping that it was cancer.' I didn't tell this story for years and years, because every time I tell it, I cry," he said.

[RamboLiberal]

18. Thanks for correcting my brain f**t

Trying to do this in middle of work. Corrected on my post.

[sinkingfeeling]

19. Dr. Harrison practices about a block from my home. He is a truly

wonderful man, living under constant threats in this very 'red' state. His practice is here in the NW corner of Arkansas, near the university, so that's probably why he hasn't ended up harmed or dead. His place of business is frequently picketed, but I think it's died off. About ten years ago, it was a weekly protest in front of the place and on almost any of the days, the group was approximately 90% men.

Edited for spelling.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Here's one site, probably the best that tracks this world-wide.

http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

I certainly have no problem with believing that 33% (probably higher) of all American women have had an abortion by age 45. About 2% of all American women have an abortion each year. Why do you find this hard to believe?

Now, I know that most women will not willingly admit to their friends and families that they have had this procedure, but if you were ever a member of certain women's organizations, it was usually discussed and I will say that from my immediate acquaintances, the statistic is true.

Also, if you were to go back a generation or two, prior to 1973, about 1 in five women had had an illegal abortion.

[RamboLiberal]

22. Maybe I'm naïve - I just found it hard to believe

that many women terminated pregnancies. And even finding abortion services does not to seem to be that easy thanks to the backlash so I would assume abortions are declining.

I'm kind of in a quandry on the subject. I understand the pro-lifers views but making it illegal only forces it underground and therefore very risky to a woman desiring to terminate a pregnancy.

And I'm naïve enough to be amazed that with so many methods of birth-control so many women still have unwanted pregnancies. That is a big area where I disagree with the fundies. We need to emphasize even more sex and birth-control education. That's where they are naive. I thought one interesting bit in PBS Country Boys was that what I thought kind of Fundie Christian Cody and girlfriend were sexually active teens.

I was also thinking we'd have a helluva social cost which the Repukes are unwilling to fund if we made abortion illegal and this country had that influx of babies many born in to poverty.

[meganmonkey]

9. Thanks to our right to privacy

which is actually what Roe V Wade is about, I don't think anyone really knows.

Other than privately funded polls, which are very difficult to be accurate with...

[Hestia]

10. Info about abortions in Little Rock, Ark.

In talking to a nurse who worked for an abortion provider in Ark.,
she said most women who had an abortion, was due to their birth
control failing, in most ways it was using anti-biotics and the
pill at the same time. She said their doctors and pharmacists
never told these women that using both at the same time nullifies
the pill and to use alternative or additional forms of birth
control for 3 months after taking anti-biotics.

These were women in their late 20s to late 30s, who did not want
children, religious about birth control and felt let down by
their medical providers in not telling them about the risk of
taking anti-biotics and the pill.

Now, if Little Rock/Pulaski County has a population of about
300,000 has this problem, what are the stats in larger cities?

She said in LR, the stats are about 1% of women having multiple
abortions, the majority were professional women who do not want
children.

Something to think about...

[newyawker99]

44. Hi Hestia!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[raccoon]

49. I've known some people this happened to; I expect many of us do.

"...it was using anti-biotics and the
pill at the same time. She said their doctors and pharmacists
never told these women that using both at the same time nullifies
the pill..."

Wish somebody would SUE a doctor or pharmacist for this...and WIN.

[wickywom]

11. Does that number include spontaneous abortions, maybe?

The term "miscarriage" doesn't apply until ( I think) the 28th week--
I've heard one in every six pregnancies ends naturally,and spontaneously....

[txindy]

23. That was my question, too

Sounds like semantics.

[sinkingfeeling]

31. No, there were approximately 1.29 million induced abortions. And

54% of those having them had been using birth control (although not necessarily, correctly).

[Punkingal]

14. I happened to watch it for the first time in months....

And I was stunned by those statistics. I found them hard to believe, and I did wonder where they came from. They didn't say, did they?

[CornField]

15. In one of my real-life circles, there are 24 women. Of that 24

Three have had abortions, although only one says it is something she never considered. Since that group is varied by socio-economic, religious and other factors, I believe it to be a small, but accurate sub-sample.

[sandnsea]

16. There are alot of abortions

The percentage is actually very high, it may very well be one in four pregnancies. But the one in three figure is extrapolating all abortions and assigning them to women on a one on one basis. That isn't accurate because some women have more than one. I would bet it's more like 20% or something, but that's still an awful lot of women to protect.

[Marie26]

20. Key words "will" & "current rates" = BS prediction

The report says "at current rates, a 1/3 of American women will have an abortion by age 45." He means "will" as in a future prediction - at "current rates," which is useless. Current rates change always - it's hard to make a prediction about the future based on it. It's like Clinton saying the deficit will be paid off in 10 years "at current rates" - look what happened to that. It's not a fact, just a prediction. Plus, it's even worse because the statistic doesn't give a specific time frame - what, in 20 years, 1000 years? How far are the extrapolating out to get this figure? Are they considering the rate of repeat abortions or just straight comparing number of women v. number of abortions? Are they considering miscarriages to be abortions. I tried Googling this figure - there's no apparent study or original news source, it's just a figure that gets repeated endlessly in the right-wing echo chamber & crosses over into the media. It's even worse that they then put up a graph about it - people are left w/the impression that this is a proven present fact; instead of a "prediction".


"The abortion lobby often advances the claim that some 43% of all American women will have at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old. National Right to Life has never been able to confirm such a statistic. The high number of repeat abortions raises questions about precisely how they are counted and distributed among the population of women as a whole."
http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL09/cdc.html

[sinkingfeeling]

26. I don't understand which side you're supporting on this. I'm almost

58 years old and if I think back on all of my friends and female co-workers, etc. I believe that about 5 in 10 have had an abortion. The statistics and various studies do confirm that about 21% of the 6+ million pregnancies that occur in the USA each year end in induced abortion.

Edited: An excellent source is the Guttmacher Institute that tracks abortion/pregnancy world-wide and by individual states.

[Marie26]

29. I guess I just don't believe that figure

It'd be one thing if they said "1 in 3 women has had an abortion by age 45," but it seems sketchier when they use "current rates" to predict what will happen in the future. I don't doubt that abortion is very prevelant, but I just wonder if the statistics are manipulated to make it seem like more of an issue than it is. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[TreasonousBastard]

27. That one shocked me too, but, surprisingly...

it may not be that far off.

Assuming 1.5 million abortions per year (and that's high) over the, say, 35 year childbearing span of the average American woman a little over 52 million abortions will be performed.

I don't remember how to set up the probability of the 180 or so million women having an abortion, considering the overlapping time frames involved, but one third of 180 million is 60 million, so it could be close. And, yes, this doesn't take into account women who have had multiple abortions.

Abortion stats are problematic, and the CDC only samples areas for its count, but it seems like this might be close.

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats_2.htm

Approximate number of abortions in the U.S. per year (based on assumptions by the Alan Guttmacher Institute).

1996 - 1,365,700
1995 - 1,363,700
1994 - 1,431,000
1993 - 1,500,000
1992 - 1,528,900
1991 - 1,556,500
1990 - 1,608,600
1989 - 1,566,900
1988 - 1,590,800
1987 - 1,559,100
1986 - 1,574,000
1985 - 1,588,600
1984 - 1,577,200
1983 - 1,575,000
1982 - 1,573,900
1981 - 1,577,300
1980 - 1,553,900
1979 - 1,497,700
1978 - 1,409,600
1977 - 1,316,700
1976 - 1,179,300
1975 - 1,034,200
1974 - 898,600
1973 - 774,600

More complete abortion stats at:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fact.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm

[mzteris]

33. Guttmacher Institute

has everything you'd ever want to know . . .

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/nr_011503.html

(sorry - I don't have time at the moment to look up the data myself.)

[Roland99]

52. Look at how those numbers starting dropping under Clinton.

Dropping steadily, too.

Economic factors will affect a woman's (or a couple's) decision more than anything, I would imagine.

[SoCalDem]

28. My guess is that "most" abortions are done before there is any "showing"

or telling. Home Pregnancy tests have made it easier for women to be private about it. In the old days, you had to go to the doctor, have a test there (on the record) and have nurses "congratulating you". If you lived in a small town there was a very big possibility that word would leak out to people and an abortion later would have to be "explained"..

Home tests mean that a woman can find out very early on, and if she does not want to be pregnant,she can have a legal procedure that is known only to her..if she chooses..

This is what drives the fundies nuts.. It's why they always talk in terms of an obviously pregnant woman waking up one day deciding to kill her fetus"..

Probably 99% of the time it does not happen that way.

Control freaks just hate the idea of any woman having that much control over her personal life.

[mzteris]

30. Abortion is also the medical term

used for miscarriage - as in "spontaneous abortion" - so when massaging data to manipulate people's opinions, they just say *abortion*. . .

edit typo

[CornField]

39. Also "missed abortion"

When the fetus stops developing but the body doesn't spontaneously miscarry.

[flpoljunkie]

32. The goal of the anti-choicers is to prevent all abortions, thereby forcing

all women to procreate per government decree. Can you say "The Handmaid's Tale?"

These same people are the ones who want to deny access to birth control--even for married women, and sex education, which would help to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

The fact that the Republican Majority for Choice come out against Alito's confirmation last night, tells us all we need to know.

[wickywom]

37. As a woman who has

had a "spontaneous " abortion I am completley shocked by women who are anti-abortion
and can't seem to understand the legal implications of criminalizing it.

Will women who have frequent "spontaneous abortions" to be under suspicion-- reported by thier husbands
as an endangermant to their unborn--?
Will women who don't take all possible, appropriate medications to save every pregnacy guilty of neglect--Will thier husbands think so?

If every women who gets pregnant has a 1 in 6 chance of losing it before the first trimester, why isn't that ever discussed by the Right?

...because they would have to concede that either the woman's body made the choice or God did.

and to "Pro-lifers" women aren't entitled to discuss our own bodies' right to "destroy a life".... that would be an admission of power.

[slackmaster]

43. Spontaneous abortion = uterus or endocrine system making a decision...

...ot to continue with a pregnancy.

I have no problem with a woman's brain making that decision; the earlier the better.

[Cleita]

41. Only from personal observation. About half of my female

friends and acquaintances have had abortions. Also, when I went for a physical years ago to an HMO who lined us up like the army, one of the questions they asked about was if any of us had abortions and how many.

There were five women placed in little cubicles separated by curtains. A nurse went from cubicle to cubicle taking the medical histories, which the rest of us could overhear. Out of my group of five, I was the only one who never had a pregnancy nor an abortion. These were women with children.

Abortion I believe is a medical procedure widely used by women to limit their families. No one wants to do it but most women know at certain times in their lives that having and raising a baby from an unexpected pregnancy is not the best choice at that moment in their lives. They should be able to have the choice.

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. I have had the same experience

About half the women I know well enough to know about it have had an abortion at some point. Seriously.

I think there's a weird disconnect among many pro-life women. I think the statistics are the same for them, but they either had some "change of heart" about the whole matter (convenient for them, inconvenient for those whom they would prevent from making the same choice they did), or they consider their own abortions to be "not really abortions." So, for example, a mi8ddle class woman who had an abortion in college would consider her abortion to be qualitatively different from some imagined "abortion abuser" who uses the medical technique as birth control (a tiny and negligible fraction of actual abortions work this way). So, the middle class woman's abortion is, for her, not really an abortion because it didn't work the same way as this imagined scenario.

The problem when abortion is criminalized - which seems increasingly likely - will not come from the pro-choice people (who will, of course, raise hell), but from the putatively pro-life when they realize that the law, yes, also applies to their middle class daughter in college (gasp gasp), and not only to those ("evil") folks in the barrios and ghettoes...

[raccoon]

42. These figures are horse manure. These idiots pulled the

numbers out of their arses.

[sinkingfeeling]

46. Why do you think most of us women on DU believe Roe vs. Wade

is such a big deal? Most of us here have said repeatedly in this thread that through our personal knowledge, the statistic is correct.

[lukasahero]

53. And from my personal experience that number is wildly off base

I know one person who has had an abortion. I know definitively of 12 women who have not. If we average your experience with mine, the percentage decreases significantly.

[Samurai_Writer]

56. How do you 'definitely' know they have not?

Because they told you? I hate to break it to you, but many women lie about having abortions because they are afraid of the reaction they will get if they admit to it. It is the same thing with women who surrender their children for adoption. There are many birthmothers out there, people you probably know, that have kept that a secret as well, for fear of the reaction they will get if they told.

[lukasahero]

59. Well, I "hate to break it to you" but I know these people

'Nuff said.

[raccoon]

57. Through my personal knowledge, it isn't. However, this isn't the kind of

thing people broadcast, so unless you know someone well, you probably wouldn't know if they'd ever had an abortion or miscarriage.

I'm pro-choice, but even if I weren't, I'd say abortion should be legal to keep women out of the hands of butchers.

[leftchick]

48. out of all of my girlfriends

I am the only one I know who has not had one. Several had more than one. Perhaps I would have had one had I not had fertility problems. This actually does not shock me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. I believe it

Seriously, I grew up in Queens - and there were a large number of girls in our "group." Almost half of them had had an abortion by age 20.

[Samurai_Writer]

54. I can believe it

I'm 45 years old and I DO believe that at least 1/3 of women have abortions at some time in their lives. Mostly due to birth control failure or financial reasons. In the past, it was because of societal pressure to be a 'good girl'. Good girls didn't get pregnant and have 'bastard' babies. This is why many of the illegal abortions took place.

I think most people don't believe these statistics because women don't talk about their abortions. if you are in a group of 10 women of various ages, I can bet you that at least 3 have had abortions. And I am not talking about miscarriages. Of those same 10 women, another 3 or 4 probably have had miscarriages.

Until women who have had abortions speak up, no one is going to know what the 'real' numbers are. But with the religious fanaticism in this country that has created a backlash against a woman getting a safe, legal abortion, I can understand why these women would not want to speak up. However, I will. I have gone through abortion, miscarriage, and childbirth. Some, more than once. I'm not ashamed of any of my decisions regarding my body and my pregnancies. I did what was right for me at the time, physically, emotionally, mentally, and financially (how I wish finances didn't have to play a part of it, but they do in the real world).

[bobbieinok]

58. years ago an upper middle class acquaintance told me she had

had an abortion; they already had 2 planned children and were unwilling to have another child

another acquaintance had 3 kids, altho the 3rd was definitely unplanned......the mother's mental health deterioraed significantly after the 3rd child, with medication and psychitric hospital stays part of their family life

just a couple of comments on 'abortion'

[hopeisaplace]

60. seems high? for me I would never want to have to

choose to have an abortion (I say it this way..in that if I found
out I was pregnant, then had cancer, and they wanted me to
terminate...could I terminate??...I have known 2 woman who chose for
the child, and both passed away)...I would be tormented..I wouldn't
want to die and leave my other children without a mother, yet I wouldn't
want this child to lose his/her life either...my gawd what a choice these
woman had to face.

Ultimately, the choice is a personal decision, and the government has NO business
judging and making laws on what a woman should do. It's shameful for governments
to stick their nose in such a personally tormenting decision for some woman.

[AzDar]

61. This is none of anyone's business. To the current batch of clowns passing

themselves off as a Presidential Administration; to ALL government agencies: STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY MEDICAL DECISIONS!!!

[Matariki]

62. nearly *every* woman i know has had an abortion

which is a good argument to KEEP it legal and safe, not an argument against it.

and in case anyone thinks this is proof that abortion is being used *as* birth control - i know from experience that it's absolutely possible to get pregnant while using birth control.

[phylny]

63. Of my four closest friends,

two of them have had abortions. I have not. So, out of the five of us, 20% have had an abortion.