Buh-Bye Posse Comitatus? Bush Weighs Deploying US Guard to Border

[IndyOp]

Is THIS why he has been talking-up immigration? So he can federalize the US National Guard and use them to control people on US soil?

Is THIS just distraction from the Rove indictment?

Is THIS activation of the detention camps - fill them with "illegal immigrants" and if a few political opponents get mixed in who will be able to tell...?

Yes! I am paranoid - a cornered beast fights.

Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to US Border

By Lolita C. Baldor
The Associated Press

Saturday 13 May 2006

Washington - Once again the Bush administration is turning to the military to help solve a domestic problem. But instead of hurricane aid or preparations to cope with avian flu, the Pentagon is being asked to possibly provide thousands of National Guard troops to shore up the U.S. border with Mexico, as part of President Bush's effort to gather support for an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws.

<snip>

The president was expected to reveal his plans in an address Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. It will be the first time he has used the Oval Office for a domestic policy speech - a gesture intended to underscore the importance he places on the divisive immigration issue.

<snip>

As discussions among the White House, the Pentagon and the states continued on how the military could be used to secure the southern border, defense officials said that states want the federal government to pick up what will be a significant tab for the increased security. Officials had no estimates on that cost.

Bush's speech Monday night is intended to build support for broad immigration overhaul by taking substantive steps to secure the border. His focus on the military echoes statements he made after Hurricane Katrina, saying the military may need to play a stronger role in disasters. He also later suggested he would consider using the military to enforce a quarantine in the event of a bird flu pandemic.

<http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306X.shtml>

[MercutioATC]

1. There's a simple work-around to Posse Comitatus.

Put the Guard units under state control and it doesn't apply.

(if I'm wrong about this, somebody please explain it to me)

[IndyOp]

2. But could he use them in a coordinated way if they were under state

control?

This article caught my attention because I am aware of two other instances in which federalization of the Guard came up:

1. Jeb Bush federalized the Florida Guard the week before 9/11

2. When Katrina hit * tried to get the Governor of Louisiana to allow him to federalize the guard. She (Blanco) would not allow it.

:(

[ellenfl]

4. why did jeb federalize them before 9/11? did he know

something his brother knew but we didn't?

ellen fl

[IndyOp]

12. I don't know -- I just learned it today in this 9/11 video...

Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime

[MercutioATC]

7. I don't see why not...it's just border patrol.

No real "coordination" needed. "See that line? Don't let anybody cross it." Seems simple enough.

[treestar]

18. People can apply for entry under various categories

To come in legally. Believe it or not, it is possible to enter the US legally. Someone makes that determination.

[ellenfl]

3. i believe you are correct. i don't think posse comitatus

applies to the guard, anyway. i think the guard is usually under state control but i don't know how that works if they go to a state other than the one where they are stationed.

ellen fl

[MercutioATC]

10. The Guard IS usually under state control (unless they're federalized)

...which, obviously, has been done at times.

[Sinti]

5. The National Guard has been used to do a lot of dirty work in the past

and it continues today, usually in exactly the fashion you describe.

They've done union busting:

A strike lasting over one and one-half years, the creation of mass picket lines at Hormel, the deployment of National Guard troops to break the pickets, the arrest of hundreds of strikers, and job loss for more than a thousand.

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2000/0900rachleff.html

And removal of "undesirables":
National Guard in midnight mass evictions/detentions of Katrina survivors in NO hotels
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/333833.shtml

Kent State, May 4, 1970: America Kills Its Children
Twenty-five years ago this month, students came out on the Kent State campus and scores of others to protest the bombing of Cambodia-- a decision of President Nixon's that appeared to expand the Vietnam War. Some rocks were thrown, some windows were broken, and an attempt was made to burn the ROTC building. Governor James Rhodes sent in the National Guard.

http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html

It is a kind of work-around for Posse Comitatus.

[MercutioATC]

9. My point exactly. Posse Comitatus wouldn't be broken, because it wouldn't

apply.

[KharmaTrain]

6. And He's Going To Patrol With Whom and What???

Besides using the National Guard as his private militia in Iraq to protect his beloved profiteers and contractors, this asshat has destroyed the preparedness and morale of the Guard.

Besides the continued "extended stays" and other games that have trapped Guardsmen into the Iraqi fiasco beyond what any human should be forced to endure, this screw has had many of these units leave their equipment behind in Iraq...with little being replaced. What are these guardsmen gonna do? Rent Toyota trucks and borrow automatic weapons from the Minutemen?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

8. Governor Napolitano of AZ is welcoming their presence, unlike

the presence of the Minutemen.

I am not sure how it works with the guard, who controls them, state vs Feds.

Wait, the Prez should know. He was in the Air National Guard, or NOT.

[electron_blue]

11. How about the other way around - Rove a distraction for detention camps?

border-sealing and all that.

[Sinti]

13. Geez... you're making me paranoid

:tinfoilhat:

[Ms. Clio]

14. Veterans of the Iraq War agree with you that it's a distraction

IVAW applauds the strength and courage of undocumented immigrants!

"In the name of human dignity and rights, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) proudly stands in solidarity with the masses of undocumented immigrants as immigration policy persists on rearing its hypocritical head. As veterans who signed enlistment contracts and accepted commissions to defend the Constitution of the United States, we see clearly the racism inherent in the existing immigration policy. We have served with, and many of us are, the children of undocumented immigrants who are being feverishly recruited to protect the country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. IVAW knows that an escalating proportion of the military lives sacrificed and taxes paid are coming from undocumented immigrant families, even while those fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers are being denied the privileges of citizenship and the dignity of justice.

We, the members of IVAW, still hold these truths to be self-evident, that all are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. IVAW seeks an end to our nation's turn toward more racist immigration, military recruiting, and taxation policies. IVAW applauds the strength of courage and character of undocumented immigrants in the ongoing struggle for justice.
-- Iraq Veterans Against the War

[Ksec]

15. I heard the guard wasnt subject to posse comatatus

I dont know one way or the other but thats what I heard on a CSPAN show.

[IndyOp]

16. Posse comitatus is the law that the President cannot use US Troops

to control US citizens on US soil. If the guard is federalized then the President does control them and can break the posse comitatus law.

If the guard remains under the control of the governor of the state then posse comitatus isn't an issue.

[serryjw]

17. I think you can say it is gone already

quote.........
Has * repealed Posse Comitatus Act?
quote.......
Several parts of the Defense Department are building large databases of information from sources such as local police, military personnel and the Internet, and in doing so, the military is edging toward a sensitive area that has been off-limits to it since the 1970s: domestic surveillance and law enforcement, according to the report.
end quote.......
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-04/28/content_44...
quote.......
President George W. Bush has signed executive orders(not true.....BUT!) giving him sole authority to impose martial law, suspend habeas corpus and ignore the Posse Comitatus Act that prohibits deployment of U.S. troops on American streets.
end quote........
http://landscape.blogspot.com/2006_01_15_landscape_arch...
You should know they circumvent anything
to not get Congressional approval
quote.........
A Washington Post article last Sunday “Rumsfeld OKs wider anti-terror role for Military”, exposed another frightening part of Rumsfeld’s “transformative” vision. Following the next terrorist attack on American soil, Rumsfeld plans to deploy “elite Special operations troops” to conduct military operations in countries outside of war zones. Under the secretary’s direction, 53,000 paramilitaries and Green Berets will be released into sovereign nations in violation of international law, conducting renditions, assassinations, sabotage, and acts of piracy. Rumsfeld’s plan abandons all prior constraints on the military and converts the entire world into a “free-fire” zone.

There’s no doubt that Rumsfeld’s malignant strategy encompasses the American “homeland” as well. It was Rumsfeld who pushed the Posse Comitatus law towards extinction by setting up NorthCom, a military command post within the United States. This creates the possibility that future military operations will target the American people, a threat which was anticipated by the founding fathers. Under new legislation the military is free to spy on American citizens, deploy mercenaries to natural disasters, and, in the event of a terrorist attack, arrest citizens without charges.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_whi_060429...

Isn't it funny this has been going on for 3 years!
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/pcomitatus.cfm
end quote.......

[northamericancitizen]

19. Is Canada next?

I don't want to see thousands of American soldiers at our border.

This is freaking me out.

nac