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Even IF most Americans agree with NSA spying:

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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:17 PM
Original message
Even IF most Americans agree with NSA spying:
Billmon:

The whole point of having civil liberties is that they are not supposed to be subject to a majority veto. Hobbes may not have believed in natural rights, but our founders did. And their opponents, the anti-Federalists, were even more zealous about restraining the powers of the federal superstate, which is why they forced the Federalists to write the Bill of Rights directly into the Constitution.

It defeats the purpose of having a 4th Amendment if its validity is entirely dependent on breaking 50% in the latest poll. It would be nice to have "the people" on our side in this debate, and obviously a lot of them are, even if Doherty's plurality still prefers Leviathan's crushing embrace. But some things are wrong just because they're wrong -- not because a temporary majority (or even a permanent one) thinks they're wrong.

...We can't do anything about how a corrupt, oligarchic system works (or rather, doesn't work) but we can at least stop accepting the other side's terms for the debate. What the government is doing is illegal and unamerican, and that would still be true if the polls showed 99% support -- in fact, it would be even more true.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/5/13/15959/1853



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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. They don't......most if not all the polls are push polls or...
worded to get the responce that the Bushies want.

They would never ask
"Is the NSA spying legal?"

Which is the only real question.
Anything else is BS.

It is ILLEGAL according to the 4th admendment....no and ifs or buts.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Most polls did not agree to Clinton impeachment.
But that didn't stop the Repukes going ahead anyway.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. They have no right to give my rights away! EVER!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is the heart of 'liberalism' ...
... and what led to the enfranchisement of non-property-owners, blacks, and women and led to the abolition of slavery.

A government which unilaterally intrudes upon the private interactions of The People and keeps its own interactions (e.g. Cheney's Energy Task Force) 'private' is a tyranny! There's absolutely no two ways about it!

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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. hear, hear!
well said.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. People assume probable cause and warrants
They don't understand that it's phone bills today, credit cards tomorrow, and bugs in the living room next month. All without any warrant or even suspicion of a crime even being committed. When they finally understand, they'll realize we're talking about KGB stuff here.
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