Has America become the World's Worst Nightmare?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Plans are being disclosed as to our intended "Indeterminable Stay" in the ME (Guardian Article... See LBN).

We have more weapons and technology than anyone we know of and a madman at the helm.

Have the PNAC piggies won and directed a "New American" paradigm?

Have we become Britain in the 19th c.?

Or Germany in the 1940's?

Please comment.

[napi21]

1. Our Gov't has become OUR worst nightmare too!

I honestly used to believe it was impossible for ONE man to screw things up sooo badly! I wasn't happy that Shrub was made Prez in 2000, but I figured it would be no big deal, because THE PREZ really doesn't have the power to do very much on his own!

HOLY SHIT! Was I WRONG!

[Ksec]

2. Look who's attacking everyone?

Look who's invading countries and trashing them?

Look who's constantly using bombs instead of diplomacy. Look who's exploiting everyones natural resources. Look who wastes the worlds natural resources. Under the Dems were a little better but not much.

There isnt a close second. The US under Repuke rule wins hands down.

[caledesi]

3. Germany - Hitler was a chancellor in a democracy, but

he used nationalism and fear to keep people in line. Anyone critical was considered unpatriotic (sound familiar)?

He regulated the news (sound familiar)?

Kept a secret database of Jews, Christian sympathizers, gays, mentally ill etc. He accomplished this with PUNCH CARDS (according to a historian on Randi Rhodes). Always wondered how they knew who was Jewish, who was gay etc. In fact, this historian said the numbers that they tattooed on prisoners corresponded with the numbers in their database. He said they even had these punch-card machine (pre-computers) at the concentration camps!

All these tactics were incremental, again sound familiar?

This is scary folks!

[Karenca]

4. worse than britain, worse than germany..........eom

[Faygo Kid]

5. The nightmare is the promise we held out, destroyed by W. and his minions

OK, relax, I am not saying we are perfect. But for every Nixon, we found a Lincoln; for every Limbaugh, we raised up a Bobby Kennedy; for every Ann Coulter, we can counter with an Eleanor Roosevelt, and for every Jack Abramoff, as many as there have been, we quietly produce a Rosa Parks. The great tragedy is the betrayal, the absolute betrayal, for all of its faults, of "the last, best hope of mankind." I weep when I look at how our nation is perceived, and how many fought so hard for 230 years to be a beacon to the world. These cheap bastards. As a devoted student of history, I can't hold them in more contempt. Not just us. The whole planet. Damn 'em.

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. Your counter examples don't count for much

The United States has been the bull in the china shop ever since we took over the French and British imperial mantles. We've had no illusions of 'noblesse oblige' and have ruthlessly exploited global resources for as long as I can remember. If we're finally getting a taste of our own ham-handed methods at home, I say it's about time we learned that there's a price to pay for the way we treat others.

[Faygo Kid]

9. Sorry my examples don't count for much.

I disagree. If you wish to see no difference between a Lincoln, Roosevelt and a George W. Bush, bless you. You are not alone here at DU. I live here. I expect better, and will continue to struggle for it.

[treestar]

12. Your examples of good are from the past

Your examples of bad are from today.

[Faygo Kid]

14. The post was indeed historical. But there is greatness today.

Go out in your neighborhood, and find courage in the face of cancer, single moms raising their kids, organizers against Bush, people with good hearts working for others. We can go back and forth on this. I simply refuse to give the USA to this crowd. You and I are examples of today; we don't have to be famous to be important. We are not automatically evil because we are Americans, and what about the rest of the folks here at DU? I for one will have to be killed or jailed before I give up. Maybe that will happen; fine. But I do indeed hold certain truths to be Self Evident. If that's a bad thing, you won't convince me of it, and I so inform you before you further post. Have a good weekend.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. I wish I could share in your optimism.

I hope that you are right.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Empires rise. Empires fall. Our turn has come.

We're on the downhill slope and picking up speed to the inevitable crash.

The colonies are in revolt all over the world, not just the ME, and we are trying to hold on to them at all cost. We're like a dying man, thrashing around, clutching to life, tipping over the furniture.

Like our predecessors, from Rome to Britain, it was a nice ride on the backs of the rest of the world while it lasted.

On the bright side, if we don't totally destroy ourselves in the process, it will be nice to be a second rate power (or, powers - if the republic dissolves, and let the new emerging empires have their day while we (hopefully) watch from the sidelines.

[depakid]

11. That's about the long & short of it

Paul Kennedy's The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers and most recently Kevin Phillip's American Theocracy lay the cases out pretty well.

And America fits the pattern.

[Scribe]

8. Was Rome a nightmare?

It seems to me that the most apt historical comparison is between the USA and the Roman Republic. It was the Republic which conquered the world. They did it in self defense, of course. They were brutal, relentless and efficient at war.

You can argue that Rome was a world nightmare yet it also spread its civilization, its culture and a few idealistic ideas ("Fiat Justicia Ruat Coelum") before succumbing to its own madmen.

I voted 'No' - America is not a world nightmare YET. Although I believe George Bush is too shallow to appreciate the ideals of the American Republic, he cannot help but advocate them. As greedy and hypocritical as he and his minions may be, there is still a solid core of believers in American ideals included in the Army and the diplomats he sends to Iraq.

I think the comparison to the Roman Republic is the best I can find in history. If the Congress shifts, if the GOP is ousted from the White House, there will be some improvement but the American government will always come up well short of its ideals.

Its still better than anything since Rome and as old and cynical as I've become, I can still quote Jefferson and Lincoln and hope.

[mr blur]

10. What??

"Its still better than anything since Rome"

What, America? What a bizarre thing to say. Still, if it helps you to believe such a ridiculous thing...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Yes. See Caligula and Nero.

[Rex]

13. No, the BFEE IS the World's Worst Nightmare.

Empire means something to these people, so does legacy and mass murder.