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Connect NSA Wiretapping dots -- Bolton used NSA to spy on Powell

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:22 AM
Original message
Connect NSA Wiretapping dots -- Bolton used NSA to spy on Powell
Edited on Sat May-13-06 08:23 AM by HamdenRice
There are lots of rumors and innuendo in the mainstream media that the NSA data mining operation is bigger and more illegal than the current story suggests.

But the media don't really need inside sources and leakers to tell them where that story leads; all they need is a memory that goes back more than a year or so.

Remember when John Bolton was nominated for his current post as US ambassador to the United Nations, and State Department personnel came out of the woodwork to tell what a creep he was?

Well around that same time, a few mainstream sources also reported that Bolton was using NSA intercepts of Secretary of State Colin Powell's conversations in order to undermine his policies. And of course, Michael Hayden was head of the NSA and would have approved this illegal surveillance of top Bush administration officials by other officials.

More broadly, it was alleged, the Pentagon neo cons were using NSA intercepts to undermine their archrivals at the State Department, for example here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1471879,00.html

<quote>

The Bolton confirmation hearings have revealed his constant efforts to undermine Powell on Iran and Iraq, Syria and North Korea. They have also exposed a most curious incident that has triggered the administration's stonewall reflex. The foreign relations committee has discovered that Bolton made a highly unusual request and gained access to 10 intercepts by the National Security Agency, which monitors worldwide communications, of conversations involving past and present government officials. Whose conversations did Bolton secretly secure and why?

Staff members on the committee believe that Bolton was probably spying on Powell, his senior advisers and other officials reporting to him on diplomatic initiatives that Bolton opposed. If so, it is also possible that Bolton was sharing this top-secret information with his neoconservative allies within the Pentagon and the vice-president's office, with whom he was in daily contact and who were known to be working in league against Powell.

If the intercepts are released they may disclose whether Bolton was a key figure in a counter-intelligence operation run inside the Bush administration against the secretary of state, who would resemble the hunted character played by Will Smith in Enemy of the State. Both Republican and Democratic senators have demanded that the state department, which holds the NSA intercepts, turn them over to the committee. But Rice so far has refused. What is she hiding by her cover-up?

<end quote>

So we already know where this scandal leads: Michael Hayden was allowing NSA intercepts to be used against political opponents of the neocons within the administration. And you can make a pretty good guess that if they were using NSA intercepts of members of their own administration, they were also using them against opponents outside the administration.
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not unreasonable to think NSA helped Bush win 2004 election
Nothing is unreasonable for a dictator.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. STEAL not win.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't forget that the U.N. was purportedly wiretapped... and one
more thing.... back in the day, MS alledgedly felt that it was cool to have a key, AND to share it.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/437967.stm


The findings of a computer security expert that America's National Security Agency (NSA) may have been given a back door into every copy of Windows 95, 98, NT4 and 2000 worldwide are being debated across the Internet.

Microsoft has issued a strong denial of allegations of misuse of a second encryption "key" in Windows.

"These are just used to ensure that we're compliant with US export regulations," said Scott Culp, Microsoft's security manager for its Windows NT Server software.

"We have not shared the private keys. We do not share our keys."

But cryptographers in the UK described the implications of the findings as "immense". Windows is installed on more than 90% of the world's computers.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. NSA intercepts of the UN ...
are apparently legal, because the UN is not considered part of the US. The Bolton-Powell intercepts, however, clearly are illegal and well documented, and strongly suggest that Hayden was allowing the neocons to have access to illegal intercepts for political purposes.
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Chimichurri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. this question has not been raised once here and is the
exact point of why the spying is so explosive.

At least the UK is on the case.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's what's so amazing to me ...
The media has a stupifying capacity to disconnect the dots. All they need to do is a google search. The explosive part of the story was already reported, in April 2005!

Connecting the two stories, we can draw an obvious conclusion -- namely, that Hayden was allowing NSA intercepts to be used for much wider political purposes, both inside and outside the administration.

Yet, not once in the current scandal have I heard mention of the previous NSA scandal.

I think it's because Bolton's nomination was withdrawn and Bush made a pocket nomination.
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gademocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bolton and the rest of the shrub cabal should be prosecuted.
When will they be brought to justice?
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maine_raptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you for reminding me of that.
I had forgotten about that little gem for the Bolton Hearings.

Anybody who doesn't think that the NSA is also recording the data along with the "call pattern" is living in a fool's paradise. How else do you determine if the intercept(s) is/are something that needs to be noted for future reference/cross-reference? Assuming of course that this is all strictly for the "War of Terror" effort (something I am not willing to concede!).

Information is power, and those in power use information.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. wasn't there someone doing insider trading in DeLay's Office
in order from him to profit, wouldn't he have to obtain info in real time, say bill "A" is going
to be passed, well by the time Congress finished a voting session of all pending legislation; it would have been too late, I wonder if NSA didn't help out with this one, it would be interesting to know when this trading was put through.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. They are hidden as "training intercepts"
The NSA according to its own rules does routinely spy on US citizens phone calls, as "training intercepts," so long as the intercept is for the purpose of training the officer and the information is destroyed or redacted.

Hayden was accused of using the "training" exception to spy on Americans, especially non-neocon officials. The "training intercepts" are not kept on NSA logs, and so the illegal use is difficult to prove.

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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Which begs the question, who is getting "trained",
Edited on Sat May-13-06 09:40 AM by Dudley_DUright
the interceptor or the interceptee?
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. speaking of trained, why is the trained seal Colin Powell NOT screaming
about this?

NSA spying on dissidents, whether they be run of the mill citizens, political opponents, or, even more disgustingly, in a way, members of the regime itself, should have been/be a HUGH story

what a surprise that it gets zero coverage here, even the the legwork has already been done by actual journalists in England

will this thread, and embedded link, get the notice it deserves?

K/R
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Good question about Powell ...
He has been playing a very strange game. He was leaking like crazy about the crimes and incompetence of the administration, but always off the record or through Powell loyalists. The entire horror parade of State Dept. officials who came out against Bolton and the threat to blow the NSA internal tapping had Powell's finger prints all over it.

But the "loyal soldier" it seems will never just come out directly to the media with what he believes.

Also, although I cited a British news source, this was also reported in the US media.

On NPR this morning, shortly after I posted the OP, the correspondent asked why the Dec. 2005 NY Times stories about NSA wiretapping has not been connected with the current story about massive call databases, but then he said the reason they are not connected is that the Dec. 2005 story is "old news".(?#$%??? WTF??)

Google and Lexis/Nexis are simply beyond the technological and intellectual capacity of mainstream "journalists."
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think if this were all to be uncovered that
we'll find out how Bush ordered the Kerry Campaign wiretapped and used that information to help them steal the election.

Rp
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Jason9612 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I dont know about that one...
As much of a scumbag as Bush is, I don't think that he'd be that stupid and stoop that low. Then again, I've been wrong before.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. He already has had the Justice Dept. and FBI
infiltrating and collecting files on political opponents like peace groups, protesters and Greenpeace.

How far of a stretch is it to say they tapped Kerry if they tapped Powell?

Rp
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. No evidence yet whatsoever, but in my gut I think you're right nt
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. No wonder Bush liked Putin so much, initially... Putin, former KGB head -
already had down the hall-marks of maintaining a one-party rule, totalitarian system... looks like bushco has been doing all it can to try to create a similar totalitarian system.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. he wasn't looking into his soul...
he was looking into his phone conversations.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. *snicker*
however if true, I doubt bush would have been so friendly (as I doubt Putin spoke glowingly of bush, and bush only likes sycophants.)
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. Recommended, with gusto. Pulling this one thread could unravel
the entire criminal enterprise.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you.
Nominated.

This is, of course, the "shadow government" which has been running the country, with no respect for the form of government which most Americans believe is still in place.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. Can anyone stop these out of control power mongers and shut down
Camp Run Amuck before it's too damn late to save this Country, or is it already too late for that?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. For those who are surprised about today's revelation about ABC News
story, concerning NSA spying on media outlets -- a shameless self kick to indicate how widespread this scandal is going to be.
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