The Red States: What Makes Us (Them) So Red? Any Ideas?

[norml]

That's the topic of my show tonight, or tomorrow morning, depending on what you consider 2am-3am cst to be.

My theory will be that it's mainly due to the smarter, cooler, more energetic people moving away from this God forsaken wilderness.

The top five Red States, in order are...

1. Utah

2. Idaho

3. Wyoming

4. Nebraska

5. Oklahoma

What Makes Us (Them) So Red?

Here's the link to KZUM, where my show can be listened to online, when everything's working...

http://www.kzum.org/

[seabeyond]

1. living in texas panhandle. totally red. i am going ot say religion.

church. i dont think it is just a conservative, i am truly saying the southern baptist or the hardline catholic church

[YOY]

5. Small town mentality too (spaced population)

You are where you go to church.
Your weekend consists of cheering for a local football team.
Low/no need for new ideas to keep ahead
Solid business base (Ranching, Farming)

Then there's Utah...I think SLC is just way too hardline LDC.

[norml]

12. When you're in the middle of the Great American Desert, what is there, but

your Church Group.

Southern Baptism (a sect formed to justify slavery) has a hold on the deep South, yet the five reddest states are not in the deep South.

Though the Southern Baptists have made inroads in Nebraska, and in the other reddest states I mentioned, it's mainly other narrow minded reactionary backward ultra "con-servative" right wing factions of sects that have taken hold here, such as Missouri Synod Lutherans, and a Catholic Diocese more "con-servative" than any other in the Nation.

[seabeyond]

13. and maybe that is it, that it attracks the bigoted

because i always loved the catholic, having experienced the liberal kerry kennedy liberal. then see the conservative catholic in town and like wow......

but i think the religion, southern baptist and this branch of catholic feed it in christs name

[Critters2]

31. The Mo Synod isn't all that strong in Nebraska

The ELCA, a much less conservative church, is VERY strong. So, that explanation doesn't work.

[ceile]

24. I grew up in Houston,

so I'm going to say racism. My family members are good Baptists and Catholics and very Dem. So, I disagree with the religion conclusion for personal issues. But I do think there is a definate "us v. them" mentality in TX that boils down to the color of skin. The rich are white and the poor are black or Mexican. I know I'm totally generalizing, but that's how my rich white "friends" viewed the Houston they refused to be part of: never left the west side, never went to any festivals around town, never saw anyone different from them. I blame the parents.

[Jacobin]

2. Its urban v. rural

My red state (Louisiana) is quite blue in New Orleans...or was...:cry:

[WI_DEM]

3. There are many cool, smart people in red states and there are

even dumb asses in blue states. Who knows? by the way Wyoming, Utah, and Oklahoma used to be "blue" states back in the earlier part of this century--I think they might have voted Democratic regularly up to Truman. Some people speculate that they turned against the party when we became so socially progressive.

[Nicole]

45. Thank you!

I have family in both red & blue states. Some of each are assholes, some of each are cool.

[Critters2]

49. There are thousands more assholes in Illinois than in Iowa

There are plenty of urban assholes, believe me.

[paparush]

4. Edumacation ???

[Ron Green]

6. "Rural" culture, few minorities, xenophobia, fundie religion. eom

[Critters2]

32. I have lived in rural areas, and haven't found any of these things

Okay, few minorities, but beyond that, no more xenophobic than city folk. I'm on a committee that is supposed to include people from the whole state of Illinois, but the damned Chicagoans won't attend meetings outside of the city. THAT is xenophobia!

[norml]

40. The less densely populated areas of Illinois, are still much more

densely populated than the less densely populated areas of Nebraska.

Look at how different Iowa is from Nebraska, for being a little greener, and a little more densely populated.

[Critters2]

48. All I know is that, as of today, I officially hate Illinois

and am looking for opportunities to go to one of those dreaded rural places again. Please, God!

[Nite Owl]

7. One theory

Education. People who are less educated would be more subject to being followers and more cultish (religion).

[Critters2]

34. In a nation with standardized education,

why would rural people be less educated? Unless there are those(almost certainly urban people) who want to keep them that way.

[ultraist]

36. Disparities in education and opportunities

Rural (almost always poor) areas have poor educational systems and little access to opportunities. Further, they are generally racially homogeneous (ie all white).

Opportunity rich areas are wealthier areas which typically are suburbs and certain neighborhoods in metro areas---these areas produce a more progressive populus.

Rural areas are economically and racially segregated from mainstream America. The isolation, the lack of education, poverty, racial homogeneity, and extreme religiosity (which goes hand in hand with lack of education) is a recipe for a more conservative population.

[Critters2]

47. I've lived in rural areas most of my life

The people I've served are not the ignorant hicks people here want to believe. As to progressive, I just learned that the church I serve now, a more urban church which calls itself "progressive" owns stock in Halliburton. My rural churches would never have done such a thing. They were constantly asking ethical questions and struggling to do the right thing. My suburbanites will do anything for a buck. Give me those hicks any day!

Critters
who's putting her resume in circulation today--and hoping to go to Iowa or Nebraska

[yellerpup]

8. Originally from OK

True, used to be solidly Democratic, but that all changed when LBJ signed the Voters Rights Act in the 1960s. IMHO these red states are SO red because the population is SO white.

[norml]

14. Their degree of whiteness is one reason why the states I mentioned are

redder than any in the deep South.

[yellerpup]

22. Good observation.

Redder and redder-faced, presumably, for their ignorance.

[Nicole]

42. Not true

Massachusetts:
White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 84.5%

Oregon:
White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 86.6%

Oklahoma:
White persons, percent, 2000 (a) 76.2%

USA:
75.1% white

Massachusetts and Oregon both have a far higher % of whites than Oklahoma. Hell Oregon has us beat by over 10%. Yet Massachusetts and Oregon are blue & Oklahoma is red.
I don't think you can blame Oklahoma's "redness" on our "whiteness".


Massachusetts U.S. Census figures
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/25000.html

Oregon U.S. Census figures
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/41000.html

Oklahoma U.S. Census figures
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/40000.html

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. The only news they get is from right-wing talk radio and newspapers

they get their news from Rush Limbaugh.

[uppityperson]

10. Fundamentalists, willing to suspend self evaluation, conservatives

Fundamentalists, meaning of whatever brand that subscribes to group thought, don't question, just believe.

Conservatives, meaning people who live in harsh places, under harsh conditions and are not able to experiment with changes (historically). If it works, keep doing it.

These are the top 2 reasons I can see, along with lack of other input (intellectual) and the desire to believe.

[reichstag911]

11. Inbreeding? n/t

[ComerPerro]

15. You forgot Kansas, I think it belongs up there

the nutcases here want opt-in only Sex Ed (you have to sign a permission slip and waiver for your children to have sex ed) and want creationism and Intelligent Design taught in Science classes alongside (and sometimes instead of) Evolution. Not only that, they want entire curriculums built around the contrasting theories!

Meanwhile, our state AG is has been on a rampage for years now, trying to seize sexual and medical histories of women in the state, claiming to be trying to protect children.

And just two years ago, the state voted overwhelmingly to not only rigidly define marraige as one man and one woman, but also to ban any possibility of civil unions or rights of any kind for gay couples.

And then, of course, we have Fred Phelps, a man who wants to build a monument in Matthew Shepard's hometown commemorating his "acceptance into hell" and who regularly can be seen picketing just about any public or political event with his "God Hates Fags" signs...

[norml]

18. Kansas is number eight on the list of reddest states,

slightly redder than Alabama, not as red as Alaska.

According to the results of the 04 election.

[ComerPerro]

19. ahh, that's the basis. Got it.

[Odin2005]

16. It's an Urban vs. Rural thing.

The Pukes implanted the idea in peoples heads that the Democratic party is the party of the "atheist intellectuals and elitist snobs who look down upon you country folk." The way some DUers bash rural voters as "dumb hicks and gun-loving rednecks" doesn't help, either.

[Coyote_Bandit]

17. I live in (J)Oklahoma

I'm a well educated professional (BA, MA, MBA, JD). For obvious reasons I will take exception to your conclusion that "smart" people leave red states. Many do. But not all. Some have commitments (e.g., caring for family members) that prohibit leaving. There is no need to feed stereotypes that negatively impact Dem's in red states. It accomplishes nothing positive for anybody.

The suggestion that everyone who chooses not to leave is not part of the smarter, cooler, more energetic crowd is offensive. It also ignores much of what actually happens here. It is not at all uncommon for wealthier families to send their kids out of state for college (usually private), help them get some decent work experience and knowledge of a particular industry (usually while living and working in another state), and then help finance those same kids in a business endeavor back here in (J)Oklahoma (resulting in their return).

What makes (J)Oklahoma so red? Religion. More specifically, some particular teachings of the church. Christians are taught not to "touch God's anointed." In many circles that is understood to include any type of criticism or questioning of pastoral or church authority (even if it is a completely fact based observation). They are also taught that any type of rebellion is a form of witchcraft - and, hence, a form of evil resulting in eternal damnation. Again, questioning authority (whether church or state) is often understood to signify a form of rebellion. It is important to remember that in addition to being a place of worship, the church (and one's participation in it) is often related to social status and activities and business networking. Even in larger metropolitan areas you will find that much of the social and cultural life is centered around churches and their activities. What it all comes down to is that the largely Christian population has surrendered responsibility for their spirituality and their religious beliefs to church leaders who, in turn, have abused and manipulated those within their congregation to pursue their own agendas. In a nutshell (and this is a general observation), Christian people are lazy and their church leaders are corrupt and deceptive.

[Ron Green]

20. Excellent observations. My only slight quibble would be

to put "Christians" in quotes, although of course they ARE known without the quotes by the signs on their mega-temples and their stationery. However, they've certainly lost touch with what Christ is all about.

[Coyote_Bandit]

46. Agreed - it's all about the money to them

They use "prosperity" as a proxy to judge godliness. You can have a half mil or more in the bank but if you're not making more than you need to live on then you are not blessed and there is something wrong with you and it is your fault. You can bring in lots of money using all sorts of devious, manipulative and unethical means and be considered favored and blessed of God. Of course, you are expected to hand over a minimum of ten percent to the church.

I believe it was the Apostle Paul that said to stay away from people that believe that godliness results in financial gain. Even some of the fundamentalist church denominations (the assemblies of God for example) have formally condemned the prosperity gospel. But that hasn't stopped it. It gives the preachers an excuse to take excessive salary and perks. And the lazy bums in the pews like the sound of the message and aspire to similar excess so they have no reason to question - not that they would dare to do so in the first place.

[yellerpup]

25. I feel your pain

We lived in NC for 22 months (including the 2004 election) and it hurt to receive e-mails from my blue state buds lumping me into that evil-other category. I am so much happier back in NY where I can get the NY Times and talk with other Liberals and Democrats and no one opens any conversation with "Where do y'all go to church?"

[norml]

54. I paraphrased some of what you said in that last paragraph on my show.

Thanks for contributing your excellent observations.

[Coyote_Bandit]

59. I'd be interested to know

if you receive any feedback on those observations. Since I have a front row seat to observe, I am writing on the topic.

[tjwash]

21. It's not so bad if you look at it like this...

...because we are not really "red -vs- blue", we are more of shades of purple.



This website is an excellent resource on the matter.

[hfojvt]

23. for Utah and perhaps Idaho

It is the social conservativism of the Mormons and their prosperity theology too. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s alot of those white separatist groups came to Idaho, partly for its wilderness and isolation, but it also became a Mecca for them.
Some of it may be the gun issue as well. In places like Nebraska and Wyoming they are mostly rural and farm people who are all recreational hunters, but the solid Republican west pre-dates that issue.

[question everything]

43. Wasn't Frank Church from Idaho?

One of the greater Democratic senators kicked out when Reagan was voted in?

[hfojvt]

44. you are asking me?

http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=C000388

But red-blue distinctions seem to center around Presidential elections and ignore all other statewide elections.

[benEzra]

51. The gun issue is definitely a major factor in both the West and South...

Some of it may be the gun issue as well. In places like Nebraska and Wyoming they are mostly rural and farm people who are all recreational hunters, but the solid Republican west pre-dates that issue.

The gun issue is definitely a major factor in both the West and South. I should also point out that the vast majority of gun owners (80%) are not hunters, which is why the party's talk-up-hunting-while-demonizing-nonhunting-guns strategy in 2000 and 2004 backfired SO badly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=97165

[SCantiGOP]

26. for South Carolina, its race

In the 1960s there wasn't a single republican that had been elected statewide. 30 years later, which is a blink of the eye in terms of shifting political climates, there is only one Democrat elected statewide. It all started with LBJ and the fear of white southerners about desegregation, and accelerated with Nixon's thinly veiled Law and Order appeal. I think the South, and the nation, have come a long way in recent decades on race, but that is clearly what caused the re-alignment. Anytime you see a confederate flag on a vehicle (usually a pickup truck), you know you have a GOP voter inside. As the appeal to racism becomes less potent for the republicans, they have to move to other divisive ways to panic the electorate : gay marriage, osama is going to blow you up, the immigrants are taking over the country, etc.

[norml]

27. South Carolina is 17 on the list of reddest states, redder than Louisiana,

not so red as Georgia, according to results of the 04 election.

[lastknowngood]

28. Ignorance and bigotry

n/t

[Xenotime]

29. It's because they all drink well water.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. Alaska is red, I think, because of oil interests...

We were a Democratic state before the pipeline days.

[AllieB]

33. In order

1. Utah: dominance of the Mormon Church

2. Idaho: Neo-Nazi and Survivalist types

3. Wyoming: small-town, parochial mentality, evangelicals

4. Nebraska: ditto

5. Oklahoma: ditto

It's not that simple, because there are blue pockets in all these states too, and a lot of fighting liberals. Nebraska has a Democratic Senator, a pretty conservative one, but it's a start.

[boise1]

38. Please cease with the Neo-Nazi pablum

These groups were, even at the height of their activity, small and isolated from the rest of the citizens in Idaho, but to read some opinions here, white robes are the official state uniform. Idahoans dealt the Aryan Nations a very effective blow a decade ago, and turned the compound into a "peace park" . Our human rights activists and organizations continue to set an excellent example for other states.

[Uncle Joe]

35. Isolation, which leads groups to form stronger bonds

and a slower pace of change than someone from a more densely populated diverse environment.

One quibble with your statement equating wilderness with being God forsaken. Their viewpoint would be, the people that left such beautiful splendor to move to a crowded, polluted, crime ridden city have relocated to a God forsaken location. One thing is for sure, when I am on the lake or in the woods, I feel closer to God than any church experience that comes to mind.

[corporate_mike]

37. Utah? Millions of conservative Mormons

[bemildred]

39. Brainwashing and vote fraud. nt

[Nicole]

41. I disagree

I don't think all of the smarter, cooler, more energetic people are moving away. I find that stereotype rather offensive.

Oklahoma votes for a dem gov. almost exclusively, 21 dems vs. 3 reps. so far. Yet we, not me, have voted for a rep. president since the 60's. Why is that? Has Oklahoma left the party or has the party left Oklahoma?

One theory I have heard here is that Oklahoma is considered a lost cause to most dem candidates. Therefore they don't campaign here as much as they do in the blue states.

If you tell people they are not wanted long enough they begin to believe it & act (vote) accordingly.

[Qanisqineq]

50. I agree with you

The stereotype is offensive. Some of the smartest, "coolest" people I know PREFER living in these places. If you continue to stereotype those people, they sure as hell don't want anything to do with you. Besides, I was raised by liberals in a red state and stereotyping wasn't considered very liberal.

[Nicole]

56. And I with you

I was also raised by liberals in a red state. They had more sense than to paint everyone with a broad brush. It seldom, if ever, works.

[PassingFair]

52. R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N

It's what caused the Civil War, too.

Fundies vs. the "Allegories That Teach" crowd

Revealed religion strikes again. And again. And again.

[peacebaby3]

55. AMEN! n/t

[justice1]

53. Posters that have lived in "red" states tend to be more accurate.

Some clueless posters keep throwing out the same offensive garbage, which forces me to go on the defensive once again.

I live in "white" rural Nebraska, the assumption is that makes people here "racist". Between my sister-in-law and I, our kids make up the majority, of the minority students.

Each of us have a son graduating tomorrow, and not once has there ever been a problem based on their ethnicity.

Military and farmers make up a substantial amount of the population. They don't see Democrats addressing issues that concern them, and in fact, associate them with budget cuts.

[norml]

57. I called it a "God Forsaken Wilderness" and compared it to Siberia

on my show.

And I was born here.

[Lars39]

58. Found this in my bookmarks last night:

http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/polling.htm