ORGANIZED BOYCOTT of the MAJOR PHONE COMPANIES

[NoodleyAppendage]

Now is the time my fellow Americans to STAND UP and be counted. To STAND UP for your Constitutional freedoms and this democracy that we hold so dear. The collection of phone records and logs without notice or warrant is a VIOLATION of your 4th Amendment rights. So, what are YOU going to do about it? Are you going to bitch and moan about the issue, but do nothing that will send a real message to the powers that be? Or, are you going to STAND UP and be counted among the other outraged Americans who will no longer facilitate the slow destruction of our democracy.

I call upon all DUers who are service members of AT&T, BellSouth, and Verizon to either cancel your service outright or to cancel at least one option in your service plan. It's time to organize and make these Benedict Arnold telecommunications corporations feel the pain for cooperating with a regime that does not care about our country.

PLEASE DO SOMETHING THIS WEEK. Even the littlest service option removal will HURT these companies where it counts and will teach them that they are accountable for their actions in subverting our Constitution.

[Touchdown]

1. You going to stop posting here?

...cause when you do, you're using at least one of these networks on every transmission.

EDIT: Not that I disagree with your sentiment, but it's logistically impossible unless you go off the grid.

[IndyJones]

3. Really? How so? I don't have any of those carriers.

[Touchdown]

12. Every carrier uses AT&T.

No other network can handle the amount of daily traffic the US has. The "last mile", or local networks to home lines, all traffic goes through the Bells. Internet traffic is usually IP routers, and AT&T has more routers than anybody else. In the communications world, access fees are rarely talked about among the public. They are a daily occurence in telecom.

Think about it. Unless you have cable Broadband, there is only one wire entering your house. Dial up, or DSL, it's going over a phone line that was installed years ago by a Bell company. No matter who your payment is written out to, you are still using the old MA BELL network.

[NoodleyAppendage]

19. But, not if you are on broadband. Right?

Do you know if Vonage calls through a broadband network are touched by the major telecom routers?

J

[Touchdown]

31. It most likely does.

If Vonage has a footprint of their own nationwide network, and it can handle all of Vonage's traffic, then they won't have to pay access fees to anybody else. That's highly unlikely for such a new company.

[ChiciB1]

38. I Have Comcast... Not Too Happy About Them Either... But

do they use the companies too?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

24. no phone lines enter my home because bell is too pricey

and my state legislature couldn't pass a budget but DID agree to help Bell restrict VONAGE by not allowing local phone numbers to be issued. I say screw Bell, which is again uniting with ATT, in direct violation of the rulings of Judge Harold Green, in the divestiture hearings brought on by the old MCI of Mcgowan.

[Trish1168]

79. Yeah, but you will give them less money if you switch

[IndyJones]

89. True, but the carriers have the phone records, not ATT.

[NoodleyAppendage]

4. That's right. Do nothing. We need more proactive people like you.

Thanks for contributing to the effort. No go back to your armchair and continue to bitch without actually doing something about it. You are the frog in the pot of slow boiling water and sadly you don't realize it.

J

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NoodleyAppendage]

35. So, you are on the inside. How do you feel about working for them?

So, why didn't Qwest have to comply with the 1996 Telecom Act???? And, if they were in violation of this law by not cooperating with the NSA, why didn't the government press the issue and bring charges? Maybe it's because the NSA knows that they are working outside the bounds of the law; therefore, are not served under the 1996 Act.

BellSouth, AT&T, and Verizon had a choice. And, they chose to subvert our Constitution.

Now, how do you feel about working for a company that is shitting on our Constitution?

J

[Touchdown]

44. Ever since I heard of the lawsuit against AT&T

for allowing unwarranted spying, I haven't felt good about working here, cause I know if one of the companies is guilty of this, most of them are as well.

I completely agree with the choice issue. The act compels the company to comply when a judge's warrant is presented (i.e. FISA), if none was presented, or if the White House faked some, then the Bells are on shaky legal ground. And it is a violation of the 4th Amendment, which in my view supercedess the Telecom Act.

I've been getting more involved in my union lately. I'm just a tech. A worker puke. I didn't have any influence over this. My conscience should be clear, but it's not. :hi:

BTW: I'm not so sure Qwest is not cooperating. Nobody knew AT&T was until one of my co-workers blew the whistle.

Not to defend my industry on this, but what major corporation isn't shitting on the Constitution? Enron, Exxon, Wal-Mart, Ford, Mars Candy, Coca-Cola?

[NoodleyAppendage]

48. Thanks for this response, Touch. I know you are a fellow DUer.

I can appreciate your predicament. I'm employed by Duke, so right now I have my own ethical conundrum...though not to the magnitude of Constitutional crisis.

J

[Jeffersons Ghost]

54. it's a good and reasonable point Touchdown

everyone has to make a living... I worked for seven years with the old BellSouth Mobility when cellular first came to Alabama. There's a LOT of good people working at AT&T. Many are very old friends. There's no shame in it but I hope they don't try screwing you out of your retirement later.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

39. I worked for a TIER TWO in Atlanta that was attempting WIRELESS internet

I wrote a book that was published on DIVESTITURE during the hearings against AT&T. Do you also know more than me?

[kevinbgoode]

87. So...what about the taxes on those phone bills?

For example, could we go after them by petitioning to eliminate all the little "infrastructure" charges...or the "interstate access" charges. . .which I assume are regulated by state government agencies? I don't know about you guys, but I'm in a damned state where my phone taxes (excise, access, universal connectivity, infrastructure, etc.) are about 18% of my bill!

One of the things I find most insulting is that we are charged FEES so that the government can tag along and collect phone records.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. wrong at least one major ISP did not turn over records. EARTHLINK

and that TIER ONE PROVIDER owns much of the OC that circles many major US cities. I use Vonage. Perhaps they're so new, Vonage is tricky to monitor.

[NoodleyAppendage]

20. Is there anyway to encrypt Vonage outgoing calls with PGP?

Just wondering...

J

[Jeffersons Ghost]

59. with Vonage being so new, why encrypt?

I have nothing to hide anyway... I simply refuse to trade with mega-corps like AT&T. They got to enter into Internet business back when Harold Green ruled but it cost them 7 regional baby-bells and Bell-labs where many inovations that make computers work were developed. Only in the Bush years, has AT&T had the balls to try re-uniting with Bell. They'll soon have their cake and eat it too, thanks the Ray-gun destroying the old FCC. Reducing the FCC also allowed bushco to buy up all the radio and much TV, through Clear Channel. Now most major media speaks with one wealthy voice.

[Touchdown]

26. Earthlink's network is small.

Earthink buys access from all of the big companies. I use them too. They are paying Qwest for the use of Qwest's wires. It's called re-selling, and it happens all the time.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

60. you're right on there

AT&T may route most of this internet but not ALL of it yet.

[Coastie for Truth]

52. You can go off the grid with ham radio, gmrs, frs, CB.

Besides - in the event of a major terror attack, hurricane, or earthquake the grid (land lines, cells - which are an appendage on land lines, and blackberries - which are a further appendage on land lines) will be dead anyway.

So think Ham radio, gmrs (general mobile radio service), frs (family radio service), or CB.

[NoodleyAppendage]

58. Doesn't the government regulate ham radio use? Have to sign up?

I thought that the government was into regulating ham radio use, in part because they were seeking to control the medium because of its power (as you so aptly described). Don't you have to register with the government or something?

J

[Jeffersons Ghost]

61. Ham used to require a Class 2 License and I guess it still does.

[Coastie for Truth]

69. Changed many years ago

When I got my Novice Class license in the 1950's there was a morse code requirement and a basic knowledge of simple circuits (high school vo-tech level).

Now -
1. No Code Technician - which has been made easier. The circuits part is "E=I/R" .

2. General - 5 words per minute code + simple high school vo tech and Boy Scout Merit badge circuits.

3. Extra - 5 words per minute code + simple high school vo tech and Boy Scout Merit badge circuits including simple antennas and generating ac signals. Straight memory exam.

The commercial operators have been superseded by a "no morse code" General Radio Operator's License. But, in the old days a Class 2 would waiver in the amateur morse code requirements.

[Coastie for Truth]

62. Yes - you have to take an exam

But, in effect, they do not monitor communications.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

64. I'm having trouble getting my high speed cable working on Ham

any advise? lol

[alcibiades_mystery]

68. It doesn't matter whether your calls "go through them"

It matters whether you are openly paying them through an account.

[Touchdown]

73. How do you figure?

If your call goes over a big Bell, then you can be listened to. Simple as that.

Whoever you pay, is paying AT&T for access, so your money's going to them anyhow.

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. Yes, yes, of course

But that's neither here nor there with respect to putting pressure on specific companies, even AT&T.

Obviously, if AT&T was satisfied merely with the call-through business, they wouldn't be advertising for more business. Moreover, putting pressure on the places where you can (i.e., those companies that you actually deal with that then have to deal with AT&T) causes them to put pressure on AT&T etc.

Whether AT&T makes money off your calls is irrelevant. Neither AT&T nor those who use them want to lose clients in large numbers.

[IndyJones]

2. Users should post their areas so that fellow DU'ers can help them

find alternate services. Dump those companies NOW. Post on their investor sites and write letters. Let their shareholders feel the pinch.

[peaches2003]

6. Georgia

Ok, so help me. I've already emailed BSouth and told them they were Fascists so their employees should wear brown shirts.

BUT where am I to turn. There is no other carrier in GA that I know of. My cell is Cingular which is owned by BS, too.

[RebelOne]

13. Georgia, too. I think we are stuck with Bell South.

[NoodleyAppendage]

16. Is Vonage an option? I'm not certain if they are cooperating...

You can go directly over to Vonage for everything, local and long-distance. But, before considering that, we need to understand if they are also part of the problem.

J

[purji]

18. try your cable co.

a lot of cable company's are are getting into digital voice networks.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

32. vonage is affordable honest and more affordable than Bell in my area

I use them for local too and Vonage is MUCH clearer than BellSouth.

[dogday]

37. I also use Vonage

Love the free long distance.....

[Jeffersons Ghost]

43. I had to add an inbound 800 because Bell was allowed to not issue local

numbers in my state but it's still much more affordable than BellSouth, even when I figure in my broadband. I pay lots less than the average customer in my area on dial-up and get LOTS better and more service... I cut that Bell umbilical after they bribed the elected crooks in Alabama.

[peaches2003]

40. Thank you thank you

Of course. Comcast has telephone service. If anyone here has it could you please tell me how the service is.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

50. I use Comcast broadband and Vonage

My ultra-fast internet is under $50. and VONAGE with free long distance and an INBOUND 800 is under $30 a month. That under $80. per month for the fastest cable Comcast offers and free long-distance to US, Canada and Peurto Rico. I get FULL (call-waiting, etc) service with Vonage and it's clearer than Bell out here in the country. Check them out! You'll never look back.

[NoodleyAppendage]

77. Doesn't Comcast offer their own Net phone service?

Just wondering..

J

[Rainscents]

70. I have Comcast and love the digital cable service!

Comcast work differently than Vontage. Comcast by pass internet since it's coming from cable line.

[NoodleyAppendage]

7. That's the SPIRIT. Do we know if Vonage is pro-American or not??

It's time for us to rephrase the issue, control the language, and target AT&T, BellSouth, and Verizon as "UN-AMERICAN" companies. Those, like Qwest, we should label as "PATRIOTIC" companies.

In eastern NC, you are stuck with AT&T and BellSouth. Unless, of course, you move everything to Vonage, like we did.

J

[thecrow]

5. Better yet SELL YOUR STOCKS

[Radio_Guy]

8. You should sell them anyway

Sell your stocks and buy euros. Move your 401 k's into bonds. The stock market and the dollar is due for a plummet in the next year or two.

[AndyTiedye]

42. Bonds Are Vulnerable to INFLATION

Both are vulnerable to stagflation, unfortunately.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

66. Got Gold?

It's not too late to join before the big $1,000/Ounce Celebration! It will be here sooner rather than later, so don't wait too long.

[NoodleyAppendage]

9. That's good too!!! I like it. Keep those ideas coming. n/t

J

[Catrina]

25. Yes! I agree and get Qwest for long distance ~ they charge $20 dollars

(plus all the abusive taxes of course) for free calling across the country and $5 extra to include Canada.

We have the power, Congress and Bush are going to lie as they usually do and nothing will get done. Taking away their money will eventually put them and their spy equipment out of business.

I think cancelling stock is very best way to stop them. Remember the boycott against the TV Rightwing owned company that was going to show the smear program about Kerry? Their stocks fell and they didn't show the movie.

Forget about Congress ~ they either are part of this or are powerless. If they were not, this would not have happened. It's up to the people now ~

[Vinca]

10. Our rights have been violated - can we sue? nt

[keepthemhonest]

76. I am sure there will be a class action

law suit at some point, but I am not a lawyer. I know, we know, they are all breaking the law.

[Doctor Venmkan]

11. "Everything happens for a reason" - LOST motto

I needed to cancel the busy call-forward feature on my Verizon plan for weeks, but never got around to it. Today sounds good!

Verizon sucks anyway, but don't know of any other options out here in the boonies....

[lisa58]

14. I'm on the phone with working assets right now...

...I'm giving them as much of my phone business that I can.

[Exultant Democracy]

15. And sign up with Quest!

Sad as it is money is speech in America and as we push the three we should reward Quest for running a responsible business.

[helderheid]

21. I have Qwest and Working Assets - anyone know about Cingular?

[Exultant Democracy]

28. Cingular is owned by ATT now

[Ilsa]

80. Crap. I thought I had gotten rid of those bastards.

I have Sage Telecom and Cingular for mobile.

[Exultant Democracy]

82. I guess go T-mobile they are German owned.

[Touchdown]

29. Cingular's owned by SBC ...now AT&T.

[AllieB]

22. Please contact your telecommunications provider regarding the NSA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1156443

The Corporate Communications department is the consumer-facing department, not customer service, and will probably have to issue a statement defending their actions.

[NoodleyAppendage]

27. Respectfully. What would that accomplish? Monetary sanctions are needed.

So these anti-American telecommunications companies read you a prepared statement, how does that punish them for their actions other than having to staff a few more folks in that department???

We need to attack their revenue base. They will only change their policies or continuing actions if faced with massive financial hardship.

J

[Breeze54]

33. I need a phone to get on the internet but...

I already did change package to minimum ... Verizon is my only option right now!
:grr:
I'm totally pissed about this!!

And AT&T closed a call center here and outsourced the jobs overseas!
Fuckers!!!!

My Senator is ripped!!! Sent me a letter/e-mail yesterday.

[AllieB]

41. They will be forced to make a statement defending their actions

At least let them know you're disgusted.

[spartan61]

30. This is the e-mail I sent to Sprint.

I am very concerned with the information I am hearing about the telecommunications companies giving my personal phone records, which I have entrusted with you, to the NSA. So far the only company that I know of who is not cooperating with what I feel is an illegal matter is Quest. I am asking you if Sprint is involved in this selling out of my civil rights, even if the Bush Administration thinks it is legal. (Don't even get me started on that.)

I would appreciate it if you would answer my question ASAP. If you tell me that Sprint is not involved, I will breathe a sigh of relief, not because I am guilty of any wrong doing, but because I can still have faith in an American company. If you tell me that Sprint has turned over the records of their thousands of customers to the NSA, then I will have to rethink my position as one of your customers.

I look forward to hearing from you.

XXXXXXXX

I just read on DU that Earthlink didn't turn over their records. That's good news for me because my ISP is Earthlink. I also get my Earthlink service through Sprint, so I'm hoping that they refused as well.

[Berserker]

49. Sprint is involved

much to my dismay.
The National Security Agency has secured the cooperation of large telecommunications companies, including AT&T, MCI and Sprint, in its efforts to eavesdrop without warrants on international calls by suspected terrorists, according to seven telecommunications executives.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-02-05-nsa-telecoms_x.htm

[spartan61]

53. WOW...Thanks for the info.

I just called the Sprint communications director and left a detailed message on the voice mail. Supposedly I will be called back. Now I have more ammunition. Think I should say that here is a threatened class action law suit??

[Suziq]

34. Got Comcast Digital Phone

So, I already dumped Verizon. Now I am even happier about the decision. My Verizon cell phone is next.

[Rainscents]

72. I have comcast also and love it!!!

I had them for 2 1/2 years!!!

[AndyTiedye]

36. Did ANY Phone Companies Say NO?

[NoodleyAppendage]

45. Qwest refused to comply. They are TRUE PATRIOTS.

I hope that we can also encourage people to switch to Qwest, if available in their area. This company should be rewarded for its conscience and honor in upholding our Constitution.

J

[rumpel]

46. How about cable broadband and Skype? However it won't be long

until they will eavesdrop on all forms of communication, if they don't already.

To me I have nothing to hide, but it is a matter of principles and I demand respect that I will not be treated as a criminal. Financial institutions already treat you as if all people are suspect and have a criminal intent. Just an excuse to dump people who are not lucrative to their bottom line, overcharging with creative fees pulling out every penny from the consumer.
This country's placement of values is completely screwed.
Verizon DSL nowadays demands a credit card on their file, regardless whether you had that phone number for 20 or so years. I would not be surprised the credit card requirement has something to do with the identification of the subscriber for other pruposes.
Further, they have oversold on the broadband width, my own phone-line, while capable, is full. I lost my DSL which I wanted to transfer from my other line which I no longer needed.
So, I was offline for this past week, until I got cable.

[NoodleyAppendage]

51. I'm wondering if purely Net voice transmission can't be encrypted.

It is true that we are moving towards Net-based phone use, but I'm hoping that end users will be able to tweak their service to allow for PGP or some other key-encryption technology. If this happens, then the dictatorial fucker will be screwed in spying on us.

J

[rumpel]

55. The cable guy told me also

that cable is controlled by 2 companies: Comcast and Time Warner. Apparently they had made a deal that Comcast will control all of the East coast and Time Warner all of the West coast including Hawaii.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to have personalized encryption.

What really bothers me, is that eavesdropping is not used on real criminals. Scammers and crooks are rampant, while peace activists are penalized? This is an abuse of power - nothing else.

[NoodleyAppendage]

84. The primary problem is one of monopolization of the telecoms

There's too much power being held in the hands of just a few. For utilities and service industries important to our civil freedoms, I believe that the anti-trust laws should be draconian. I blame Clinton here for passing the 1996 Telecom Act and encouraging major telecom mergers.

J

[wtmusic]

85. Skype uses 256-bit encryption

and they are screwed.

[Breeze54]

71. I agree 'it's a matter of principle' - Massachusetts Phone Companies

... I just searched all over for an alternative residential phone company and nothing!!
Not unless I have a business! That is absolutley ridiculous!!

This is good except they only offer long distance. :thumbsdown:
http://www.workingforchange.com/index.cfm

As does Qwest. Their services are not available in my area.:thumbsdown:
http://www.qwest.com/index.html

And I checked this for Massachusetts but not every website... ZIP/ZILCH/ZERO!

Massachusetts Licensed Telecommunications Operators
Search Registered Service Providers
Common Carrier: Company that provides telecommunication services to the general public.
Pay Telephone Providers: Company that is registered to provide payphone services.
Competitive Local Exchange Carrier: Local telephone company that competes against the incumbent.
Data Local Exchange Carrier: Company that provides data services.
Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier: Local telephone company that is the incumbent in the area.
http://db.state.ma.us/dpu/qorders/frmTelecomList.asp

:grr: :grr:

Looks like I'd have to go DSL and then get VOIP!

[qanda]

47. When and if you call

Be sure to tell them to write a report and send it to the corporate office.

[0007]

56. For sure!

[NoodleyAppendage]

57. That's a great idea! I would do it if I were still on their leash.

Nice thought!

J

[Jeffersons Ghost]

63. K&R!

vote it up DU!

[BrightKnight]

65. Qwest does not offer service here.

There are apparently no other options.

[GardeningGal]

67. Some smart lawyers should put together a class action lawsuit

My first thought was to go after them as an individual but that would be too expensive for most people. So, hit the providers that complied with a class action lawsuit. That should get their attention.

This is one time I'm glad QWEST is my provider.

[KAT119]

74. K&R!! Thank you....

[Trish1168]

78. Progressive phone company: Working Assets

1% of proceeds goes to 50 progressive causes. Its only $0.05 per minute 24/7, local and long distance.

Plus, 1 free pint of Ben and Jerry's every month for a year!

Call 1-800-362-7127 to switch.

I did (today) !!

[BlackVelvet04]

81. Verizon is the only local service I can get

but I think I'm going to switch my long distance to Qwest.

[mom cat]

83. Consider it done! Goodby Verizon.

[Marie26]

86. I'm canceling BellSouth

and writing them a little letter about how BellSouth customers don't appreciate having their records given to the NSA w/o their knowledge. The ONLY voice we have here is our money, and how we choose to use that money. I think it would be great if some sort of organized boycott was started on the web, so people could sign a form letter, cancel service, & add their names to show how many people have boycotted these companies. They won't care about one pissed-off customer, but an organized group of thousands of customers will start to make a difference. Does anyone know if such an effort has already been organized? All these corporations care about is money, and until the profit loss from angry customers is more than the profit gain from lucrative federal contracts, they're not going to stop doing this. Cancel Bellsouth, get Qwest! Make a stand in whatever way you can.

[Zorra]

88. Have not had telephone service since Dec. 2000. Boycotting

fascist corporations is a great idea.

Thanks for the post.

[MzShellG]

90. Does anyone know.....

What major phone company Global Connection is tied too? I'm with them instead of Bellsouth, but I believe tey use Bellsouth lines.