Could Oregon save democracy?

[Tiggeroshii]

According to the American Prospect, it can. What does everybody think of the universal vote by mail system?

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=New+Ballot+Box

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I've got family in oregon.

They love it.

[Protagoras]

2. Being from Oregon...

I like our system but it isn't perfect, it's still subject to manipulation and I'll live the rest of my life fearing the people who count the votes no matter how I make them. Regardless of it's mail in or walk in there MUST be a paper trail, no ifs no ands no buts.

I don't care if it costs more.
I don't care if it is slower.
I don't care if it is less convenient.

I want a paper trail because Democracy deserves it.

Vote by mail is infinitely better than electronic voting. Leave ATMs at the bank. Make Voting PERSONAL.

[Protagoras]

4. Interesting thing I just realized today when I mailed in my Ballot

I had to buy a stamp for it. I've always just dropped them off at the library voting box before out of habit so never thought about it before...today I was going to mail it...realized I was out of stamps...had to go buy a book and thought...Hey I'm paying to vote!

yes there is a free alternative if you have the gas to get to the Library...and no I don't give a damn. Just an odd realization. Our voting envelopes require postage.

I'm willing to pay 37 cents for democracy. How about you?

[Tiggeroshii]

10. the article explains how a court ordered that's not a poll tax

..simply because of what you pointed out -you can walk it to the polling place and turn it in in person. Even though most people don't do that, do you believe that every polling place is within walking distance convenience for people to do that?

[Protagoras]

15. actually at least where I leave it's very convenient

as far as I know almost every library, elementry school and post office are drop off points and its hard to imagine any urban or suburban dweller having difficulty reaching one of those in a minute or three.

On the other hand we do have some rural dwellers, farmers etc who live a goodly ways and one must wonder what provisions are made for them.

It's not a perfect system (for instance what if you are blind...good luck filling out a private ballot). But it's a DAMNSIGHT better than going down to the diebold store to have my vote stolen right before my eyes.

Democracy is NEVER perfect...but it's sometimes a lot better than others. I'll bet my years paycheck that Oregon's voting is a hell of a lot more honest, convenient, and accurate than Ohio's.

[Tiggeroshii]

16. Well

I lived in Oregon 2 years and about a half mile from my library and post office(Beaverton, respectfully). I guess anybody fit could get down there pretty easily, but anybody disabled or whatever might have a tough time. Even if somebody NEEDED to use a stamp to mail itdue o those reasons, I don't think it's really enough to constitue a poll tax considering everybody generally has stamps anyways. But why wouldn't people be allowed postage paid envelopes in those cases?

[OregonBlue]

3. It takes a little longer here but, it's worth it. It won't stop dirty

tricks but it's infinately better than voting machines. The other advantage is that you receive the ballot a week or 2 ahead of time and can read your voter's pamphlet on ballot measures as you vote.

[MissB]

5. I like getting my ballot a couple of weeks before election day.

I love vote by mail. I love having the ability to sit at my desk and ponder my choices.

I kinda miss going down to the olds folks community to cast my ballot, though.

[depakid]

6. These are still optical scans

and they suffer from all of the weaknesses of that technology.

[heartofthesiskiyou]

11. True but there is a record that can

checked and recounted by hand if necessary. There are also ways to recount by independant groups if the forced recount doesn't reach a threshold (I believe it's 1/2 of 1 percent) of spread between winners and losers, though I think it needs to be a FOIA. I'm from Oregon and I thnk it is the better than were I just moved from (Colorado). There is a good deal of confidence in the system here.

[depakid]

12. But will it be audited and checked?

I've lived in Oregon a long time- and not at all confident that'll always be the case.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. As a former Oregon resident, I loved vote by mail, especially when

coupled with the Voters' Pamphlet, which is mailed free to every household a few weeks before the election. It contains statements and photographs from all the candidates that your community will be voting on, texts of all ballot measures with explanations of the potential impact, and for the fun part, arguments for or against the ballot measures, available to any group or individual willing to pay a few hundred bucks.

You can really do your homework before voting.

[kaygore]

8. The scanning machines are from Diebold, etc.

But there is a tangible trail.

What's more, having volunteered for ACT during the 2004 election in part in Oregon (among other things on the Morrison Bridge going into the city during drive time in the morning holding a huge sign that said "Vote Early"), I was impressed with how seriously people took voting. For example, many people gather with friends and debate the candidates and issues and vote. One group that a dear friend met with had assigned everyone in the group a candidate and/or issue and the person had to debate in favor of the candidate or position.

Since these were all flaming liberals, the person representing Bush really had a difficult time!

We are such an instant gratification society that having to wait for the ballots to be counted, even on such a critical issue, probably would never fly. But I was sure impressed!

[Caoimhe]

9. As an Oregonian

I honestly don't know why this hasn't been done in other States. It is so easy, and turnout is higher because of the convenience. We mailed our ballots last week, but there are at least 2 drop offs in my tiny town of 7,000, and the Courthouse put up a steel drop box a few years ago so you can drop it off anytime, 24/7.. I prefer to hand it across the counter to an elections clerk, as I know them, but my husband sent the latest ballots off with the bills. Oh well. After filling out the ballot, you stick it inside a privacy envelope, which is provided, and then inside the outside envelope, which is provided.

On the back of this envelope is where you sign. This bothers me in a way as I don't like my signature just out there, that would be one reason I'd rather personally drop off the ballot. But it simplifies the process for the elections clerk, who has the files of signatures, and just checks them off as they come in. I know it could probably be improved on, but so far I love it! And the clerks office loves it! It means that far reaching corners of the county aren't hauling pickup loads of ballots in after 8pm. Sitting around waiting for precincts to come in is excrutiating. Since so many folks were voting absentee anyway, this just made sense.

I know absentee voting has gone up everywhere, this just makes it equal for everyone.

[movonne]

13. The reason they don't have it in other states is because it does make

sense..

[ramblin_dave]

17. Has any vote buying or coercion been reported?

This is one potential argument against vote by mail. Someone could buy ballots (outside envelope already signed) to fill out as they choose or maybe an employer asks for ready to mail ballots so he can see if you voted the right way before he seals the envelopes. I assume there are penalties for those who get caught trying this, and this argument could be just designed to create fear in order to prevent implementing such a process.

[Caoimhe]

18. Not that I've heard of

People who were opposed to the change initially have come to accept it and even like how easy it makes the process. I would be interested if anyone has any reports of voter fraud or coercion in Oregon.

[benddem]

14. become a vote count watcher

at your county court house. Any doubts you have about the validity of this process will be negated.
You sign the back of your envelope. The envelope is scanned by two (one dem one rep) people and compared with the signature on the voter's registration. If they don't think it is a match, you are called to come in and redo your voter's reg.. (in case your signature has changed) or challenge the ballot.
Then the inside envelope is removed and the outside envelope is kept and counted. Then again by two observers the ballot is removed from the inside envelope. Those envelopes are kept and counted.
Two observers review the ballot. If there are marks on it which don't appear they will scan, the observers remark the ballot with a special carbon marker. If the ballot has been marked...coffee stain, jelly etc. again a rep. and dem re do the ballot.
Someone on another website suggested you could put up false drop boxes. HUH what would be the point of that? There's no way you could predict which party would put their ballots in that box. If the ballots were tampered with the county clerks would spot it. I don't think you could open two sealed envelopes without making an error.
I love Vote by mail. Look at all the problems they had in FL. OH, NM and WA last election.

[helderheid]

19. I'm all for it so long as counting the ballots is transparent!