Another Bev Harris smear campaign in the works?

[Kelvin Mace]

From the Bev's site:

Diebold has also been participating in orchestrated smear campaigns against Black Box Voting and its founder, Bev Harris, using fake Internet "screen names," identity theft (posing as board members of Black Box Voting to post defamation), organizing fake news Web sites smearing election integrity advocates in general and Black Box Voting/Bev Harris specifically. Some Diebold employees tag-team with the Diebold smear squad to point elections officials toward the cyberlibel. The Diebold Internet smear squad also includes an individual from North Carolina.

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/27634.html

Gee, I wonder who the individual from NC will be?

This is a really nice bit of BS. Bev gets to discredit her critics as shills for Diebold and make herself the crusading martry at the same time. Also, she gets to disavow unwise posts made by her and her board by claiming "identity theft".

All the while, she keeps fleecing the sheep. What will happen when these people who believe in Bev learn the truth? What will happen when they joing the never-ending ranks of Bev's victims? Will we lose them? Will they joing the ranks of the apathetic, giving aid to the opposition by their refusing to participate further?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. When I think of the damage Bev has done,

I want to SCREAM.

[robbedvoter]

14. Bev=Florida 2004 - off the table as stolen election

Aggravated Randy, Keith , Carol Roberts - every good person who tried to shed light on it.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Now she is looking at a new way to discredit and smear her critics.

[patriothackd]

148. You believe she should not discredit Diebold?

The article refers to Diebold. Why are you painting yourself into that picture?

[Kelvin Mace]

152. Hmmmm... as one of the people

who helped drive Diebold out of the state of NC, I find your attempts to put me in their camp amusing.

Again, another Bev trait.

[Dorian Gray]

154. Since you are a newer poster here, patriothackd

you may be unaware of the ongoing posts regarding the Black Box Voting scams that BH has, allegedly, been involved with. There is a lot of bad blood between the many people who "donated" money to her "cause," only to see it frittered away. A beloved poster from this site who worked endlessly on this topic with BH was treated really badly by her camp in the end.

It isn't Diebold that people want to defend. Rather, it's Bev Harris who people are wary of.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patriothackd]

169. I received a very gracious email from Bev

when I asked her a question. She mentioned the situation with Kelvin Mace and no, I'm not using your real name here dude because it's against the rules. She said if I disagree with what I see here it is appreciated if I present my own viewpoints. It was a very short email and contained no instructions, just said if I disagree, to go ahead and weigh in.

So I am.

I dissent, is that clear?

[Kelvin Mace]

185. No, I have stated many times on DU and frequestnly post my name on DU

The reason you won't use it is to perpetuate that talking point.

What is clear is that you showed up and immediately start parroting all Bev's talking points, make the same tired arguments that have been made over and over again by Bev and her cronies.

[patriothackd]

194. A mirror, and a cracked one at that.

Talking points in this thread:
she's going to smear everyone (while everyone is smearing her)
she ran off with money (but no one has any proof)
she is hiding her 990 (it is the organization's 990, not hers, and the filing date is May 15, a fact which is posted on their home page)
she pocketed the Qui Tam money (but no one has any proof, nor has anyone agreed to correct the record if they are proven wrong)
the Andy situation (vague references to helping kill him, preposterous on their face and the most obvious evidence that there is an agenda behind this beyond personalities)
she is psychologically deranged (without any evidence)
she should be taking medications (a diagnosis without any evidence)
she has "damaged the movement" (when threads like this damage the movement)
she has stolen her work (without presenting any evidence that this is the case, and an argument that is obliterated by the body of work that continuously appears at that site)
she has no credibility so ignore her (the day before a major new report comes out, LOL)

It could as easily be:
Someone here is smearing
Someone here ran off with money
Someone here is hiding sales reports
Someone here exploited Andy Stephenson to further a vendetta
Someone here is psychologically deranges
Someone here should be on their meds
Someone here is damaging the movement
Someone here is stealing the credit for work done by Bev Harris
Someone here has no credibility and should be ignored.

This could go on and on, and it's boring.

I have now participated in my first flame war and hopefully, my last.

Adieu.

[gkhouston]

215. 'Bye now.

See you again in a few months. :hi:

[Stephanie]

290. like clockwork

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sydnie]

284. You asked "Bev" one question, got a gracious email from her

and now you come here talking as if you are her conjoined twin, with so much information and so many "wrongs to right"?

I call Bullshit!






Bailey77 was more entertaining than this incarnation is.

[liberalnurse]

247. Kevin.....please continue to trust your instincts!

You are right on target!

[patriothackd]

168. Please define "frittered"

If the money was "frittered away" please describe the things it was spent on that you believe mean it was "frittered."

[Dorian Gray]

176. My definition of frittered in this case?

Spent on things that were not what she claimed she was raising money for. (Primarily on herself, her travel, and herself.)

I never donated money, so I didn't care all that much about the situation. (I actually work for a non profit whose sole purpose is giving grants to charitable organizations. BBV didn't appeal to our mission, or my personal leanings, so I stayed away. I was thankful for staying away, also.) Many who had worked closely with Bev later posted on this board about the various misappropriation of funds as well as harassment that they have received at her hands. She was confronted by radio hosts who had previously supported her on where all the money she had raised went. It was a black hole of unaccountability which frustrated the many who had donated to a cause that they truly believed, and it was a black hole of unaccountability in which I was thankful that I stayed far from.

Perhaps she has treated you well, but you have to understand the frustration that many people have felt about this situation.

A general distrust has permeated here in regards to BH, and it would be an extremely difficult uphill battle for her to prove herself and gain the trust of the majority of posters here. I generally stay out of these discussions, but I have an opinion. And I actually have the funds to donate (via the non-profit), but they are funds that I would NEVER spend on her organization. (Primarily because of the pettiness that her "camp" has allowed itself to get involved.)

[patriothackd]

181. If it turns out that you are incorrect, will you correct the record?

"Primarily on herself, her travel, and herself"

If the 990 shows the money was not primarily "frittered" on herself, her travel, and herself" will you make sure to correct the unkind words you wrote?

[Kelvin Mace]

188. Here's a question in return

Bev claimed Andy wasn't really as sick as he claimed.

Now he's dead.

Will Bev apologize for calling him a liar about his illness?

[Dorian Gray]

266. Sure...

Show me the proof that she spent that money on what she told everyone she was raising it for, and I'd be happy to eat my words and apologize. I'd like to see all her records, including Black Box's tax returns. I'd also like to see her personal financial records in relation to BBV money. Full disclosure is the only way that this will go away.

I'm a relatively passive looker on in this entire mess, but it became a mess. There were many people who complained that their money was misappropriated and wrongly allocated. When confronted with those accusations, full disclosure is the only way to disprove them. I'd love to see any charity/non profit organization prove accusations of wrongdoing to be false. So, since you are defending BBV and BH, you should be willing to publish all that information for people to freely peruse to get their trust back, and I am asking that you post that information here so that I can see it and understand what has really gone on.

[Zhade]

76. That lying shitbag is also why CA now has DREs again!

She took the money and ran - I get so angry when I think of how she's helped destroy the right to vote for a quick buck (or tens of thousands).

[Kelvin Mace]

92. Plus, she burned the guy

who took risks to give her valuable information to use in her law suit. Bev gets $72,000, Heller gets three felony charges.

[Zhade]

117. Yeah, another outrage. It infuriated me all over again, hearing that.

NT!

[Steve A Play]

128. Are you sure it's true?

Did you know that Stephen Heller signed up here at DU just to post an answer to this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423451#423973

steveheller (2 posts) Mon Apr-17-06 04:09 PM

Response to Reply #37

52. I am Steve Heller

This is Steve Heller. I received a phone call about this discussion thread so I came to read it. I am under felony indictment, so I am not able to comment in any way about my case. Nor will I be responding to other posts on this thread or to anyone who contacts me; this will be my only post.

Regarding Bev Harris - My experience with her has lead me to believe she is a person of integrity. She has never done anything to cause me any harm. Those who insist she has done something to harm me or my legal defense don't know what they are talking about.

Someday, when I am no longer in legal jeopardy and I am free to talk about the case, I will do so, and many of the people who have posted about my case or Bev Harris' role therein will learn they were wrong.

Steve Heller

Beyond that all I can say is "no comment" at the request of Stephens council. :)

[Kelvin Mace]

129. And we answered it at the time

Even if we accept that Heller doesn't hold Bev repsonsible, I do.

She admitted confirming details to the police. She admitted revelaing his identity to the folks in the SoS office.

You NEVER reveal your source in this situation. Bev did and by doing so she burned Heller, whether he thinks so or not.

[Steve A Play]

133. You don't have a clue what you're talking about

and it will become abundantly clear when this matter has been disposed of. Until then, "no comment". :)

[Kelvin Mace]

149. Pretty convenient

It will all be revealed at some future date, just like at some future date Bev will reveal eviednce of illegal activity in Florida.

And she will reveal the results of her 3,000 FOIA requests.

[patriothackd]

167. You asked for an example of repeating something you know to be false

Volusia County revealed illegal activity in Floridam,, poll tapes thrown in the trash and poll tapes manipulated through memory card tampering.

Palm Beach County revealed illegal activity in Florida, votes time and date-stamped as cast weeks before the election in the middle of the night.

Score 1 for the pepperhead and no, I am not Bev.

[Kelvin Mace]

190. Bev CLAIMED

that such activity was revealed, yet no criminal charge were ever filed.

Now there is a court case in which the evidence will be examined. It will be interesting to see if anything come of that.

[patriothackd]

150. Are you sure she took the money?

If you learn that she did not, will you apologize and correct the record?

[Kelvin Mace]

153. I will apologize if I am wrong, when she apologzies for

all of the lies she has told.

*IF* the books are audited by an valid agency and she can account for expenditures then I will admit I am wrong. But apolgies will never be forthcoming until she publicly apologizes to me and all the other activists she has lied about.

But that will never happen. You, er I mean Bev, would sooner cut her throat than apologize.

[patriothackd]

170. Once again you think it's all about you.

You are responding to the answer to Zhade. I wasn't talking to you, dude.

[Kelvin Mace]

192. In a public forum

so I may comment if I choose.

[slay]

15. Same here

She really betrayed a lot of hard working, good people, (like Andy Stephenson - who was AWESOME) people who only wanted fair elections. Shame on you Bev Harris.

[patriothackd]

171. A lot of people here are betraying Bev Harris

It's obvious to the sane world.

[Kelvin Mace]

193. I think that ranks right up there with

betraying Charles Ponzi.

[Sannum]

2. Bev has smeared herself.

I think it is better not to even pay attention to her anymore.

[patriothackd]

145. Now why would you suggest paying no attention just now?

the Hursti Report II coming out tomorrow and all.

What would motivate you to urge everyone to pay no attention to the formal security alert on voting machines which caused the state of Pennsylvania to sequester every machine in the state?

Attention! We are hereby urging everyone to PAY NO ATTENTION!

New report from Black Box Voting coming out this week, pay NO attention!

[Kelvin Mace]

151. Pay no anttion to Bev

is not the same thing as pay no attention to the issue.

Yet another Bev trait, confusing herself with the issue.

[patriothackd]

172. The new Black Box report, pay no attention to that?

Is Bev running Black Box Voting?

Pay attention to the new report or not? If not, why not and if so, how did the report happen?

[Sagan]

3. I was away for a while...

And I'm not really up on the whole Bev Harris drama. When I left, she was still posting here all the time. Can someone fill me in?

[mdmc]

6. it is a very strange story

people have died... wild internet wars... I really don't know all of it...

[peacetalksforall]

8. She caused people to die? Or, because peole have died, answers

are not known? Is it proper to elaborate?

[MelissaB]

11. Start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4049596

[mdmc]

21. it is a mess

that I cannot follow. Others will have links upon links... soon enough...

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Andy Stephenson

her right-hand man has died. Before his death Bev did her damndest to make his life a living Hell.

See here:

The Bev Harris story for newbies and those who have forgotten

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

[patriothackd]

159. Wow. She must be Wonder Woman on crank!

All this and at the same time was busy making Andy's life hell, what a gal!

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/3826.html?1110401502 Hack of Real-Life Voting System Demonstrated

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/4447.html?1113843248 Diebold Lobbyist Documents Reveal Problems

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/4540.html?1114023292 The devil in the paper trail details

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/4624.html?1114371831 Gambling outfit tied to InkaVote

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5512.html?1115306631 Easier Hacking Access Sneaks in w. ADA Compliance Measures

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5559.html?1115416424 $45 Million contract flying under the radar in Cook County

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5595.html?1115677106 Money trail and influence peddling

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5921.html?1132521434 Optical Scan System hacked 3 ways

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6626.html?1118849395 Palm Beach County fails audit

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6700.html?1121981840 Report/testimony on California meeting

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6738.html?1138983767 Black Box Voting litigation fund launched

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6771.html?1120552196 Critical security alert for Diebold optical scan machines

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6804.html?1120543093 Diebold accounting mistakes

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/6805.html?1147136716 The Black Box Report

Testimony and appeared at public meetings in:
San Diego
Los Angeles
Riverside
Berkeley
Sacramento
Cleveland
Boston
Washington DC

[Kelvin Mace]

161. Amazing

how your arguments mirror Bev's more and more.

[patriothackd]

173. Calling everyone "Bev" when they disagree with you?

I saw you guys calling JimDandy "Jim March"

You don't really know who anyone is here do you?

[Kelvin Mace]

191. We get very suspicious

of newbies who write just like her.

[Steve A Play]

209. Yeah, speaking of which

you might want to back off on jumping on every person who doesn't agree with your opinions of what Bev Harris and Black Box Voting.org are worth to this effort. I've personally watched as you've destroyed any credibility you had with at least half a dozen activists and one public official who are all now convinced that you're out of your mind. :crazy:

I must admit that I've taken some guilty pleasure while watching you and others here go off on people that I know and have worked with, while claiming that they were actually Bev! You really don't want to know what Stephen Heller and the good folks helping to clear his name think of you, but I'm sure you're going to find out in a very public way when the time comes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423451#423973

steveheller (2 posts) Mon Apr-17-06 04:09 PM

Response to Reply #37

52. I am Steve Heller

This is Steve Heller. I received a phone call about this discussion thread so I came to read it. I am under felony indictment, so I am not able to comment in any way about my case. Nor will I be responding to other posts on this thread or to anyone who contacts me; this will be my only post.

Regarding Bev Harris - My experience with her has lead me to believe she is a person of integrity. She has never done anything to cause me any harm. Those who insist she has done something to harm me or my legal defense don't know what they are talking about.

Someday, when I am no longer in legal jeopardy and I am free to talk about the case, I will do so, and many of the people who have posted about my case or Bev Harris' role therein will learn they were wrong.

Steve Heller

You're sure making a lot of friends out there David! Do you still want to stick to the lie that Bev "burned" and "outed" Steve? Anyone here in a betting mood? :)

[Kelvin Mace]

210. Jesus, you are dense

Bev publicly admitted talking to the police and confirming Heller as the source.

Is the paper wrong? If so, where is the demand for retraction? Where is the lawsuit?

[Steve A Play]

213. I'd call that a "personal attack"

And for those who still don't comprehend I'll repeat, "NO COMMENT"! (For now! ;) )

[Kelvin Mace]

214. So, you can't comment on

the fact that the newspaper reported Bev cooperated with police in fingering Heller?

[Steve A Play]

235. You have the nerve to call me "dense"

yet you don't seem to understand the simple notion that at the request of Steven and his attorney I can offer

"NO COMMENT"

at this time until his case has been resolved. :)

We're working with him to help him. You, on the other hand, have no knowledge of his defense strategy and seem intent on causing harm to it by repeating bullsh*t allegations based on your own twisted interpretation of events. Steven was nice enough to come here to try to set you straight personally, as best he could under the circumstances, and yet several people here treated him like crap.

Why does DU allow you to keep doing this to people? :shrug:


BTW, can you post the exact phrase the paper used to say that "Bev (Harris) cooperated with police in fingering Heller"? I don't remember reading anything remotely resembling that remark. Maybe I missed it, and then again, maybe you read way more into what the paper did say than is really there.

[Kelvin Mace]

258. Bev is not under indictment

Heller is.

You aren't under indictment.

Heller is.

BTW, can you post the exact phrase the paper used to say that "Bev (Harris) cooperated with police in fingering Heller"? I don't remember reading anything remotely resembling that remark. Maybe I missed it, and then again, maybe you read way more into what the paper did say than is really there.

Let's go back to the original story AP story shall we?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/18/state/n073150S99.DTL

Bev Harris, founder of Black Box Voting, told investigators that Heller met her in a Ventura County park in early 2004 and gave her the documents. She turned them over to the secretary of state and the Oakland Tribune.

First, if I had meant it as a direct quote, I would have put it in quotes. I know this is confusing to folks like Patriothckd. who puts things in quotes when he is making the quote up.

I paraphrased the article. To anticipate your next objection, I assume then that you feel my paraphrasing is in some way defective.

So, lets look up the definition of "finger"

# Slang.

1. To inform on.
2. To designate, especially as an intended victim.

The police came to Bev, waved a badge, and Bev sang like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Steven was nice enough to come here to try to set you straight personally, as best he could under the circumstances, and yet several people here treated him like crap.

A person claiming to be Steven Heller made such a claim. Bev Harris once pretended to be a CPA named Sonja Johnson and solicited confidential files from me, so you can see how I, and others, might be wary.

This is, of course, beside the point. Heller may indeed think the sun shines out of Bev's ass, but then, so did Andy until she turned on him. What Steven Heller thinks about Bev squealing to the cops is not germane to the fact that she did indeed squeal.

Why does DU allow you to keep doing this to people?

I'm sure you have your theory as I have mine.

I think that folks might want to re-read this little gem and decide for themselves:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x108750#113134

We cannot confirm or deny the veracity of claims made by others, including many former colleagues, her former publisher, and Keith Olbermann. But we can confirm that the claims made by others about Ms. Harris are not inconsistent with our own experiences.

[Name removed]

292. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

4. David, does she need to up her meds

or do we need to find out who is funding her these days?

Hang in there. We know we need to get yer back from time to time. Thanks for the heads up that those times are coming around again.

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Thanks

She probably should be on some medication, but my guess is her critics have been having an affect and she will now play the victims card again. Anyone who points out her lies and opportunism will be smeared as "working for Diebold".

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[patriothackd]

146. Evidence that she should be on medication:

Can't let THIS happen again, now can we?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-15-opticalvoting_x.htm
Whatever happens let's keep this issue out of USA Today.

Sure signs of a psychological disorder:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/northwest/chi-0604270319apr27,1,1287757.story?coll=chi-newslocalnorthwest-hed
Oh come ON, get this psychotic person out of the Chicago Trib!

Well shit, the lunatic got the story on 100 TV stations
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:sULDnRjByvwJ:www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13410061.htm+%22bev+harris%22+%22miami+herald%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
and into the Miami Herald

Lobotomize the bitch before any more mainstream press covers this!

[Kelvin Mace]

155. Two stories refer to the same issue

That voting machines can be hacked.

Well stop the presses, THAT'S news. Wait a minute, that was news in 2003 and here it is a 2005 story. Avi Rubin determined this in July of 2003, so it is hardly news.

The other story talks about the melt down is Chicago that what, Bev is claiming credit for?

[Dr.Phool]

5. Who?

[Sydnie]

7. David, I saw this the other day and wondered

If she was pointing a finger in your direction.

As stated up thread .... I wanted to scream!

[Kelvin Mace]

27. I'm guessing me, or Joyce McCloy

She's after Joyce as well. Joyce committed two sins in Bev's eyes. First she criticized Bev. Second she was an affective activist who never asked for a dime from anyone, proving you could do this job without needing a million dollars.

[patriothackd]

174. There you go again, 'It's going to be me or Joyce McCloy'

Are you sure about that? If not, why did you start this thread?

What if it's Diebold?

Do you have a problem with outing a smear campaign if it's run by Diebold?

[Kelvin Mace]

195. Channeling Ronald Reagan now?

"There you go again"

I did not say "It's going to be me or Joyce McCloy." So, now you have lied about what I said when my words are plainly visible to disprove you.

You placed the sentence in quotes, which means you are claiming to quote me directly. And yet what I said is, "I'm GUESSING its me or Joyce McCloy" In other posts I said "it could be" me or Joyce McCloy. At no time do I state categorically it "going to be" me or Joyce McCloy. You invented that out of whole cloth and then used it to attack me.

Classic Bev behaviour.

You may, or may not be Bev, I have no way of knowing. But I can see the attraction you have for her.

[MelissaB]

9. From the same link

John Dean
BBV Leadership Team
Username: Bozosforbush

Post Number: 306
Registered: 12-2004

Best of Black Box?
Votes: 3 (A keeper?)
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:46 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the good folks at DU, Daily Kos, and other sites,

My name is John Dean, from Santa Ana, California. I am not affiliated with this site in any official capacity - I am merely a volunteer, like many other good people here, in search of the truth.

For the past few weeks, many of us have been working behind the scenes to figure out the complex internet libel campaign that has been going on for a very long time about Bev Harris.

In the coming days, a lot of evidence will be revealed that will both surprise and shock a lot of you. This evidence is solid, it's all captured, and it will prove our case.

A few screennames, some well-known, some lesser-known, will do their best to deceive you. Please do not be fooled...use your own eyes and your own head. The machines are going down, and those tied to their makers who have been deceiving you for a very long time, are going down as well.

Sincerely,

John
[e-mail]

Didn't this guy post here at one time?

[seemslikeadream]

13. Yea he's been here and tombstoned at least 5 times under different names

spreading vicious rumors about many DU'ers

[Chimichurri]

32. deleted for putting in wrong place - sorry

[Viva_La_Revolution]

31. yada yada. We're still waiting for the 'proof' they said they had from

Florida.

She's a write off in my book.

[MissWaverly]

54. yes, her "forensic" analysis

I look for it to show up any day now.

[Steve A Play]

132. What are you waiting for?

It's been available for quite a while now. :shrug:

From day one, all anyone ever had to do was demonstrate a legitimate need for the information and request it, and they received it right away.

As it was, Susan Pynchon, a member of Florida Coalition for Fair Elections, and her attorney Daniel R. Vaughen, PA, demonstrated their need for the evidence for a https://njc2k6.news-jrnl.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Politics/LocalWVGov/03WVolWEST01EPOL112404.htm+%22Susan+Pynchon%22+Volusia,+lawsuit&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4]">lawsuit that they were in a position to file. They got it, they used it, and they won. As a result of their actions, Volusia County is now Diebold free.

Here's a quote from a November 24th, 2004 https://njc2k6.news-jrnl.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Politics/LocalWVGov/03WVolWEST01EPOL112404.htm+%22Susan+Pynchon%22+Volusia,+lawsuit&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4">article that ran at the time.

Rights group sues over election results

<snip>

Pynchon, who recently helped found an organization called Florida Fair Elections Coalition, said she sued because of concerns about how election records were handled. She acknowledged that she had been active with the Democratic Party but said her group is nonpartisan.

In part, her suit's claims are based on records Supervisor of Elections Deanie Lowe provided last week to Black Box Voting, a national elections watchdog group that is focusing one of several potential fraud probes on Volusia County.

Pynchon and Bev Harris, Black Box Voting's executive director, say copies of voting machine tapes they received last week are incomplete for 59 precincts. The tapes -- receipt-like records -- are one of several issues raised in the lawsuit.

"At this point, we're (Pynchon and her attorney) not accusing anyone of fraud," Pynchon said. "At the very least, I would say there's been gross negligence and ineptitude." Harris said Black Box Voting played no part in the suit other than providing information.

<more>

Note that this was about a week after the warehouse raid. That week was spent attempting to get other records released and picked up, and analyzing the ones that they already received to see what they showed.

The lawsuit was reported right here on DU the day before on the day it was filed.

demobabe Donating Member (586 posts) Tue Nov-23-04 09:13 PM

Original message

Big BBV News - Volusia county

Well, someone promised BIG NEWS today regarding Florida and voter fraud, and seeing how we haven't heard much of anything at all, I did some digging to find the biggest announcement to keep folks hopeful. Here are some details of a lawsuit filed today by Susan Pynchon in regards to Volusia county voting... the actual complaint isn't online, but I hope this cheers some folks up.

Case Style: SUSAN ROSE PYNCHON v. VOLUSIA COUNTY CANVASSING BOARD, ET AL
Case Number: 2004 11437 CIDL
Category: Other Circuit Civil
Case Type: Circuit Civil
Filing Date: 11/23/2004
Case Status: Open
Related Cases: NO

Venue Information - 10 - C. McFerrin Smith, III
Processing Location: DeLand
Court Location: DeLand

Disposition Information - Pending
Disposition Date:
Jury Trial: NO
Appealed: NO
Contested: NO
UCN: 642004CA011437XXXXDL

As soon as the case was disposed of, and the evidence released and returned to Black Box Voting.org, it was posted to the web site. The Volusia County garbage raid video was posted at the following link on June 23rd, 2005.

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/2197/6737.html?1143348061

The pdf. scans of all the poll tapes and analysis were posted to the following link on December 22, 2005.

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/2197/15675.html?1140792920

Here's a sample of what was looked at for just this one county.

Here are the poll tapes:
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct101-polltape.pdf (missing zero report)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct105-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct106-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct107-polltape.pdf (missing zero report)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct109-polltape.pdf (missing zero report)

http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct201a-polltape.pdf (what happened to first memory card?)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct202a-polltape.pdf (what happened to first memory card?)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct203b-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct204a-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct205c-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct206a-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct207a-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct208a-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct209-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct212-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct213-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct214-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)

http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct215-polltape.pdf (Multiple anomalies including mismatched vote counts)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct216-polltape.pdf (missing zero report)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct217-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct218-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct219-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct220-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct221-polltape.pdf (The "Zero Report" line appears three times, in a pattern that is not readily explainable by turning the machine off and on or starting the report over. It also appears that this machine skipped its L&A test)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct222-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct223-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct224-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct301-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct302-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct303-polltape.pdf Another copy of poll tape 303 was found in the Volusia County Elections office trash. "Long report" was found in trash, "short report" provided as official report. Then-elections supervisor Deanie Lowe told the Orlando Sentinel that procedures in Volusia County allow throwing away the long report audit tapes. If so, it's a peculiar procedure, especially since the contest period had not yet expired.
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct304-polltape.pdf (white rectangle in zero tape; public defender's race doesn't appear on zero tape)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct305-polltape.pdf (A documented case of time travel? Reported date on voting machine is about 18,000 years in the future.) Another copy of this tape was found in the Volusia County Elections Office trash. Trash copy was long report, official copy was short report. Both long and short report had the bizarre date, indicating that the problem was most likely from the machine's clock -- from tampering with the clock, or an unusual Y2k-type error, or a malfunction. The explanation for this is probably not memory card misprogramming, but rather a situation in the voting machine itself.
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct306-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct307-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct308-polltape.pdf (no signatures on results tape; L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct309-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct310-polltape.pdf (What happened to second memory card?) Another copy of this was found in the Volusia County Elections Office trash. Both the trash copy and the "official" copy were of the original memory card. Trash copy was long report, official copy was short report.
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct311-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct401-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct402-polltape.pdf - (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct403-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct404-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct405-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct406-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct407-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct408-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct409-polltape.pdf (2 memory cards, L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct410-polltape.pdf (missing Zero Report)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct411-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct412-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct413-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct414-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct415-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct416-polltape.pdf (slight anomaly, 2 "election zero rept." lines)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct417-polltape.pdf (doozy of a time error on results report. At first glance, seems minor. Poll workers noticed it, signed off on it, thinking the clock stamp on the results report was about an hour off. However, the clock was actually nearly 13 hours off. In fact, it had not advanced even one second during the entire day while the voting machine was counting ballots. This gets into a tech discussion of CPUs and clocks, but the simplest explanation on this one appears to be: Tampering.)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct418-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct419-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct420-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct421-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct422-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct423-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct424-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct425-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct426-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct427-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct428-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct429-polltape.pdf - black ink on normally blue-ink poll tape
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct501-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct502-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct503-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct504-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct505-polltape.pdf (2 memory cards, L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct506-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct508-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct509-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct510-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct511-polltape.pdf "memory card error"
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct512-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct513-polltape.pdf missing zero Report, 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct514-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct515-polltape.pdf missing zero report, 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct516-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct517-polltape.pdf no l&a, time discrepancy
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct519-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct521-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)A
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct522-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct523-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct524-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct526-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct527-polltape.pdf Race # 60 recorded "zero" votes for both ballot choices (all other races did record votes)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct528-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct529-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct530-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct531-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine), 2 memory cards
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct533-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards, no signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct534-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct602-polltape.pdf missing zero tapes
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct603-polltape.pdf missing zero tapes, no 11/15 report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct605-polltape.pdf missing zero report, no signatures on results
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct607-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, no zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct608-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, no zero report, no signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct609-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct614-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards, missing zero report, missing signatures, missing the 11/15 report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct615-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report, missing signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct617-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing results tape
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct618-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report, missing signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct619-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct620-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct621-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct622-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct623-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct624-polltape.pdf missing zero report, 2 results tapes, incorrect date (00/00/00), uploaded 4 hours late, has a 1-vote discrepancy
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct625-polltape.pdf - missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct626-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct628-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct629-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct632-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct633-polltape.pdf missing results report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct636-polltape.pdf missing page on zero report (page contains the sigs), results report is missing the signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct637-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct638-polltape.pdf missing zero report, missing results report -- no reports at all from 11/2
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct639polltape.pdf missing zero report, missing results report -- no reports at all from 11/2
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct640-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct641-polltape.pdf missing zero report, no 11/15 report given
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct701-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct702-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct703-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct704-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct705-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct706-polltape.pdf missing zero report, missing signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct709-polltape.pdf missing zero report, results uploaded hours late, 1-vote discrepancy on results
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct711-polltape.pdf missing zero report, not uploaded until after midnight
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct712-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct714-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct716-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, 3 memory cards were made, zero report wasn't run until 11 p.m. on election night, results were not printed until around midnight election night
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct717-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct718-polltape.pdf results were uploaded before results report printed
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct719-polltape.pdf (L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct720-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct722-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct723-polltape.pdf 1-vote discrepancy in results, uploaded hours late, missing in results provided on 11/15
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct724-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct725-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct726-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct727-polltape.pdf "memory card error" message, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct728-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct729-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct730-polltape.pdf ("memory card error" message, L&A test appears to have been skipped on this machine)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct731-polltape.pdf 3 memory cards created for this precinct, "memory card error" report, one zero report run on 2nd card Oct 24, other zero report run on Nov. 2 from 3rd card
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct732-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct733-polltape.pdf - missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct801-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct803-polltape.pdf "paper jam," missing the time stamp
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct804-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct805-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct806-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct807-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct808-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct809-polltape.pdf black line on top of 0 rept
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct810-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct811-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct812-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct813-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct814-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct815-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct816-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct901-polltape.pdf missing zero report, missing signatures
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct902-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct903-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct904-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct905-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct906-polltape.pdf 2 memory cards created for this precinct, missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct907-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct908-polltape.pdf missing zero report
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct909-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct910-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct912-polltape.pdf
http://www.bbvdocs.org/FL/volusia/Volusia-pct913-polltape.pdf missing zero report, missing signatures

[Viva_La_Revolution]

135. thanks for the info, it should have made the news...

I still haven't changed my opinion that she doesn't seem to be a very nice person.

[patriothackd]

142. What is your opinion

of whether it is a very nice person who will consistently post negative information which he knows to be false?

I hear George Bush is a very nice person. People who party with him really like him. Con men are known for their niceness. Probably the only people who really know who is nice are those who live with them.

For sure it is not "nice" to spread malicious information when you know it to be false.

[Kelvin Mace]

158. Oh, now we are compared to Bev's friend

George Bush.

Again, what "false information" have we posted?

[Kelvin Mace]

37. This guy was posting ferociously for about a month

and got kicked off I believe. He has a diary over at DailyKos, but it was last updated in January.

[Dorian Gray]

157. I'm certainly not as up on this story

as many other posters here, though I've read the ongoing saga as it reared its ugly head on these pages. All John Dean's post on another site screams to me, however, is "Blah blah blah blah blah... YOU"LL ALL SEE!.... blah blah blah blah blah blah.... WE'LL SHOW YOU LATER.... blah blah blah blah blah blah... I'M TELLING YOU! KEEP READING! I'LL SHOW YOU WHO IS EVIL!... blah blah blah blah blah blah."

If you have the "proof!" then lay it out on the table. Otherwise promising information in the future is such a bullshit way of trying to rile people up and instill distrust. Either you have information or you don't. Obviously, he doesn't. :eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

10. Let's see her evidence. n/t

[Zhade]

77. HAH! That'll be the day!

She's not got the best track record on such things...but man, can she sucker people for money.

The voting machine problem is real - Harris' integrity is not.

[Boredtodeath]

12. It's past time for some lawsuits n/t

.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. Well, she knows we don['t have the cash

which is why she lies with such impunity.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

16. This is totally not my own experience with her and BBV. I

worked with her team on the site prior to the election and have done so in the last 6 months at times as well.

I did see some harsh exchanges between her and some folks here at DU.

But I make allowances for a person willing to take a lead in such a difficult situation. It takes a certain kind of person to do that.

I found her helpful and methodical in her work.

She has been involved with various experts on computer security, Avi Rubin and others.

I have a grad degree in computer science and have at times devoted a fair amount of time to exploring this stuff.

[Boredtodeath]

17. Not to worry

You'll get your rude Bev Harris awakening one day. She spares no one. Just give her time.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

64. I doubt it, I'm not well known there, I come and go. But thanks

for the lovely thoughts and well wishes.

[Kelvin Mace]

30. She has also smeared those same experts.

She has been involved with various experts on computer security, Avi Rubin and others.

She accused Rubin, Rebecca Mercuri, Doug Jones, David Dill and many others of be4ing in this for the money. She claimed these people were going to file a qui tam lawsuit and make millions.

So far the only person to make any money for this from a qui tam lawsuit has been Bev.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Thtwudbeme]

38. Methodical in her work? What work? All the "work" I saw her bragging

about was what other people did.

[patriothackd]

182. Have you worked with her?

If you do not work in that office, how do you know what work she does and what work she does not do?

[Zhade]

78. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

[symbolman]

137. Bev Harris is considered a Laughing stock

by people like Avi Reuben and others, and much of DC.. I know a lobbiest who knows all about her, and I was here when she bilked thousands of people on this site, threatened to SUE the DU and others who offered help for FREE over her BBV claiming it was some kind of trademark, which is wasn't and isn't and never was.

You want to hear something really funny, go have a listen to the last interview that Randi Roades had with Harris, asked her why she wasn't in OHIO for the big show there, Harris said, she wasn't INVITED to some nonsense like that, THEN Randi told her she knew all about how much money Harris had suckered so many people for, and said, "If you're making a movie with that money you're going to be in a lot of trouble.." Paraphrasing.

Not to mention that Randi asked her WHY and WHEN she'd FIRED Andy (who later DIED) and Harris pretended NOT TO KNOW, when it was ON THE FRONT PAGE OF HER WEBSITE.. ask Will Pitt what HE found out about the Board of Directors with her at the head? If it was anymore inbred with family members it would have to have been renamed "Smithville".. everybody HERE is named SMITH, you stay away from my daughter, she's MINE, and get on outta SMITHVILLE, mister..

Randi ROASTED that turd.

She's actually BEGGED and offered to PAY 6 thousand dollars to be allowed to SPEAK at voter reform panels, where they are actually doing the good work and been turned down.

I always wondered why the DU didn't get together and get a bunch of folks that had been suckered and find out WHERE their money went and GET IT BACK.

My wife is still waiting for Harris to open her books, she will NAIL that when she gets a good look at it, and Harris will have to at some point.

[Kelvin Mace]

160. Can we find this MP3 file

of the interview? I will host it.

[patriothackd]

175. Oh now that's rich

"I know a lobbiest who knows all about her"

Way to build credibility for your point of view.

[Steve A Play]

211. Hi patriothackd, welcome to DU!

The "reality based" community! :rofl:

Remember, links are only required when you try to make a point. Even then they will be disregarded by a vocal few here. :crazy:

[liberalnurse]

Are you a Bev minion?

I realize you are new to DU...which gives rise tothe question? "Why you are supporting Bev the Old Dired-Up Crone?"

[liberalnurse]

248. Face it...you are busted!

I can smell a Bev Harris minion!

[Swamp Rat]

18. Let me help...

:D

[robbedvoter]

43. That saves so much time! I'll save it for future inquiries!

Should I credit you with it?

[Kelvin Mace]

47. If you wish

but use my real name, David Allen, since otherwise I am one of those people hiding behind a "fake" name (despite the fact that I have never made a secret of my name or tried to conceal it).

[robbedvoter]

66. You got it! Unlike others, I like to credit people's efforts.

[Swamp Rat]

84. Look at the building, at the fascia above 2nd foor under the dome.

My name is there. :D

Andy loved that pic. I'm so glad he got to see it. :)

[Zhade]

79. NICE WORK, SR.

That says it all, doesn't it?

:toast:

[B Calm]

19. I can't believe this RW phony is still fleecing people!

[Boredtodeath]

20. Her bank account is running dry

She seems to promise lots of money to lots of folks (Heller, Funk) and seems to have spent her Diebold blood money several times over.

[Steve A Play]

136. Can you please back that up with some links?

She seems to promise lots of money to lots of folks (Heller, Funk) and seems to have spent her Diebold blood money several times over.

Aside from the $35,000 from the litigation fund going to Ion Sancho and Bruce Funk to pay for their respective legal actions, what other money from the California Diebold settlement has been spent and on what?

I must have missed it! :)

You wouldn't happen to have links to back up your statement, would you?

Thanks!

[symbolman]

138. Okay

Let's start with what she claimed was the BIGGEST Freedom of Information Act COST in the history of the US.. that was HER CLAIM, you telling me that was chump change?

How much has she paid her "staff" (family) and board of directors for the past few years?

We'll just have a look at the Books, according to my wife at some point she has to make the money PUBLIC and then there's going to be some fur flying, you don't think about 70,000 witnesses HERE on the DU have any brains at all?

That's a big chunk of people to be grifting from, you don't think there are CPA's here, folks that can find out?

Is this an INVITATION TO FIND OUT, because you can consider it done if so.

[Boredtodeath]

139. Don't leave out

Paying for the Florida open records lawsuit AND the Stephen Heller defense fund.

Yep, they think DUers are really stupid, I guess.

[Kelvin Mace]

163. And the fact that she flat out lied

about the amount of money raised thanks to Randi Rhodes.

[Steve A Play]

207. OK, let me answer these one at a time

Let's start with what she claimed was the BIGGEST Freedom of Information Act COST in the history of the US.. that was HER CLAIM, you telling me that was chump change?

I didn't even mention the FOIA requests or their costs, you brought it up. Since you did, I'll respond to that. First off, I don't remember Bev or anyone else from BBV.org making the claim that it was, "the BIGGEST Freedom of Information Act COST in the history of the US". It's true that over 3000 simultaneous requests for information were sent, one to every county in the country, making it the biggest FOIA REQUEST ever filed, but you inserted the word COST in that statement. (In ALL CAPS no less!) Please rescind the statement or back it up with a link.

Yes, the FOIA requests were extremely costly, but they were paid for with donations and grant money. Their costs had absolutely nothing to do with the Diebold settlement money which was placed into a special account earmarked for litigation only.

How much has she paid her "staff" (family) and board of directors for the past few years?

Well since BlackBoxVoting.org isn't even two years old yet, I'm not sure how you can ask about "the past few years".

You seem to have the concept of how a 'non profit organization' operates confused somehow, so let me explain it to you. Bev Harris does NOT pay anyone, she gets paid by the volunteer Board of Directors of the organization, not the other way around. As I mentioned, the 'board' serves in a voluntary capacity and receive NO compensation for their day to day work. The board of directors controls the organization's bank account and makes the spending decisions, NOT Bev Harris.

We'll just have a look at the Books, according to my wife at some point she has to make the money PUBLIC and then there's going to be some fur flying, you don't think about 70,000 witnesses HERE on the DU have any brains at all?

Well good luck trying to "have a look at the Books". Although your wife is correct that our IRS Form 990, which is due to be filed on May 15, becomes a 'public record', I'm not aware of any laws that require us to publish our "books". Perhaps if you call our accounting firm in advance they may be willing to work something out with you. Since you are obviously going into this with an open mind, ("there's going to be some fur flying" ? :eyes: ) I'm almost certain that we'll just stop our election reform work and go out of our way to accommodate your fishing expedition. :rofl:

Do you actually believe that there are 70,000 active DUers and they all agree with your version of events? You should try looking at the profiles page here and then check out when each person last posted.

That's a big chunk of people to be grifting from, you don't think there are CPA's here, folks that can find out?

Well i'm fairly certain that a competent CPA couldn't find 70,000 active DUers that agree with you currently posting on this board. :)

Is this an INVITATION TO FIND OUT, because you can consider it done if so.

Go for it! You might learn something. :hi:

[troubleinwinter]

212. "Perhaps if you call our accounting firm"

Well, what what accounting firm would that be?

According to "bailey77", speaking for Bev (or was Bev), stated on March 2005 that a 2004 year-end statement prepared by "an accounting firm specializing in non-profits" would be posted shortly. It never was, of course.

This wouldn't be "Sonja Johnson"????

Some transparency could dispell some of this. So what IS the name of the accounting firm?

We do look forward to Monday, May 15th, when the form 990 will be publicly posted on BBV.org, as promised by Bev.

[demobabe]

269. Quick and easy question for you, Steve

Who is on the board of directors for BlackBoxVoting.org? That information does not seem to appear on their website, and I'm curious.

Thanks...

[Kelvin Mace]

164. I always love it hen they demand links

We waste time pulling them up, and then they are ignored. Then a few month's go by and the issue comes up again and the same demands for proof ar made.

[elehhhhna]

23. It's all about Bev. Voting? Secondary.

She's a paid op of the reep party I'm sure. She's worked very hard to discredit her "cause".

[patriothackd]

177. Wait, I thought this thread was all about Kelvin Mace

But since you bring it up, if it turns out you what you are saying about her being a "paid of of the reep party" is false, will you correct the record?

[troubleinwinter]

26. "smear campaigns", "defamation", "smearing election integrity advocates"

Is Bev's OWN modus operandi. Not to mention good old fashioned LIES and bullshit.

[Kelvin Mace]

33. Also interesting that it is Diebold in NC

Diebold was driven out of NC.

[Steve A Play]

253. Diebold was driven out of NC.?

Please Saint Kelvin! Tell us the story about how you drove the Diebold snakes out of North Carolina! Hell, all this time I was under the impression that their moving that plant was a business decision. I never suspected that they were driven from the state. You're way too modest!

And you accuse Bev of having a massive ego! :rofl:

[Kelvin Mace]

260. I said "helped"

If I were Bev, I would have claimed to have done it all and smeared anyone who dared disagree.

If you assert that my statement is factually in error, then you are invited to contact NC Verified Voting and ask them. Their leader, Joyce McCloy was honored by the ACLU for her efforts (http://www.newsobserver.com/659/story/410538.html) in getting S223 passed which outlawed paper-less voting, required disclosure of the source code, and required the CEO's of voting machine companies to sign sworn affidavits that the software used in the election was the same software as certified by the state. Violation of this provision is a FELONY.

Diebold withdrew from NC rather sign that statement.

The fact that Diebold has a manufacturing plant in Lexington, NC is irrelevant. They won't do business with NC because of that provision of the law.

What does that have to do with me?

I wrote that provision when I served on the Select Committee that drafted the law.

'Taint bragging if it is fact.

What has Bev done lately?

Oh yeah, Bev is against the only federal law which would require a VVPB.

Thanks Bev, way to help out.

And before you you even THINK of trashing Joyce, let's look at this news item:

Diebold v. North Carolina Board of Elections
and
McCloy v. North Carolina Board of Elections

State court litigation involving Diebold's attempt to be exempted from state law requirements to escrow all of its system source code on the grounds that it couldn't do so. EFF intervened in the case on behalf of local election integrity advocate Joyce McCloy and convinced the Superior Court to dismiss Diebold's complaint. The Board of Elections nonetheless certified Diebold to sell equipment in the state, despite a statutory requirement to review "all source code" prior to certifying any vendor. EFF filed suit on behalf of McCloy, asking the Court to force the Board to perform its duties. The Court denied EFF's motion, finding for the Board an exemption for the Board from having to inspect "third party software" although such an exemption does not exist in the statute. Nevertheless, Diebold was forced to drop out of the process as it could not escrow all of its code for possible future review.

http://www.eff.org/Activism/E-voting/

McCloy took Diebold to court on principle and prevaled. Bev took Diebold to court and pocketed $70K and sold out Steven Heller.

And yes, it was mixed. We didn't win on all points, but ultimately Diebold withdrew. The claims about being unable to escrow the software are nonsense. You put the software on a disk and mail it to Raleigh. What is so hard about that? Trouble was, when you escrowed the code, you had to sign the sworn statement, and that Diebold would not do.

[Rex]

29. Bev works for greenbacks.

Kinda like a mercenary, but with less morals.

[Chimichurri]

34. she was on Thom Hartrmann's show the other day and he was

very friendly towards her. Not a word about any scandals.

I've no idea what occurred here, I'm just sayin' I trust his judgement and if there's a need for him to get informed is there an easier way then waiding through old threads which can be confusing and cumbersome?

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Sorry, but I laid it out as plainly as I can

If you want the truth, you have expend some effort. Be wary of anyone who claims otherwise.

I've addressed this issue before:

5) "Prove to me that Bev..."

I've posted the proof. Read the links.

6) "No, point me to a summary or specific post that proves your case."

Sorry. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, we require our proofs to be read IN CONTEXT. Anything else would be unfair and deceptive. Reading and thinking are hard work. It's why we are liberals and not freepers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

[Vinnie From Indy]

162. Exactly!

"Reading and thinking are hard work. It's why we are liberals and not freepers."


Bev has been exposed on DU on countless occasions and the repeated attempts to rehabilitate her image are pathetic and useless.

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kelvin Mace]

196. Ah, now we are back to attacking the DU mods

[Boredtodeath]

36. Just ask Randi Rhodes

She'll tell you all about how trustworthy Bev Harris is.

Or Keith Olbermann.

[Thtwudbeme]

39. You trust Bev's judgement? My God, I wouldn't trust her to tell me if it

was going to rain tomorrow.

The woman is a whack job extradinaire. Listen, I don't know crap about BBV, or computers, but I know when she claimed Andy Stephenson was not sick, then the man DIED from his cancer...well...HELLO!

I won't even get into what she did to a personal friend of mine because I don't want those goons even knowing who I am. ANYONE associated with Bev Harris in a friendly way should be looked at suspiciously.

But, hey...I am a Religion major, and am at the point where the best advice I can give someone about people like Bev Harris, is to get the hell out of their way because you might get sucked up by the giant cosmic Hoover vacuuming of the universe of icky karma.

Good luck.

[Chimichurri]

73. re-read it. I said I trusted Thom. Nothing is said about trusting her.

[Boredtodeath]

40. Here ya go - excellent summary by Wired

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,65928-0.html?tw=wn_politics_evote_8

[Kelvin Mace]

49. And note that this story was BEFORE

she began stirring up trouble among the freepers and calling Andy a faker. (Projection anyone?)

[crispini]

62. Wow, I remember ALL of that.

I never read the Wired article, but that is exactly the way it went down on these boards. What a crazy fecking time that was, post-2004 --- wow, it's almost been two years. The amount of time I spent on Ohio. Xenia County in Ohio -- Volusia County in Florida -- and KO was the only one who was covering that. And the Bev thing... when she and KO got into it... O M G I haven't thought of all of that in MONTHS.

It's hard to believe it's been that long. I spent so much time on DU following those threads and freaking out about the whole situation staying up late and trying to figure out what was going on.

God Bless Barbara Boxer. She at least HEARD ME. That election still sucked big donkey dick, but when Barbara Boxer got up and contested Ohio's electoral votes, that was a teensy bit of closure for me.

[Chimichurri]

74. thanks!

[robbedvoter]

41. She smeared every person whose work she took credit for over

the past 3 years. Some smears turned deadly (Andy Stevenson). Some smears had the effect to discredit our efforts to question the election fraud in Florida 2004 - she attacked everyone who wanted to help.
A lot of people here, on Bartcop and other progressive sites were exploited and afterwards slimed by Bev - who at one time joined the Free Republic and posted on her site that freepers are interested in clean elections and Bush himself ordered her book.
Thom Hartman is a good guy who needs to research his guests more (she abused Randi Rhodes, Keith Olberman among others)
Before the Black Box calling, she was selling "Monica Cigars" at her old site - talion.org.
She was also trying to sell opinions of DU-ers en masse for money - offering a PR packege for sale at her site. Trust her at your own peril.

[Zhade]

82. "She was also trying to sell opinions of DU-ers en masse for money"

Wait - what?

What does that mean? Did I miss a new outrage?

[IndyOp]

45. I trust Thom - I also think he knows some stuff about BH and is

chosing to overlook it because he thinks that free & fair elections are so important that we need everyone involved. I don't see Thom inviting her, or anyone else involved in election fraud/justice on his show, and grilling them -- he doesn't want any negative coverage associated with the issue. I also don't think Thom has been on the 'unpleasant' end of BH's behavior.

I also trust Keith Olbermann (and team) and Randi Rhodes (and team) and Kelvin Mace (and team) -- BH did something with them that really wrecked their trust. The old threads can be cumbersome, but I suggest that you skim.

If BH can do good, without harming anyone else, then, of course, that is fine with me.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. Sadly, the two are now mutually exclusive with Bev

If BH can do good, without harming anyone else, then, of course, that is fine with me.

She burned Stephen Heller, though someone claiming to be him posted that he didn't feel she burned him.

Assume that Heller does indeed believe this, this does not mean it isn't true. By her own admission she revealed his identity, then later confirmed it to the police. In my book, that's burning a source.

I view that as harming someone and harming the movement.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[IndyOp]

52. Not to go too far off subject, but how are Stephen Heller &

his family? Are they getting financial/legal help?

[Kelvin Mace]

60. Don't know

He has a site up. Bev claims she gave him $10,000, but we have yet to see any proof.

[patriothackd]

186. What constitutes proof for you?

Here is a link to Stephen Heller's defense fund. How much money have you contributed to it, Kelvin Mace?

http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com

If you have not donated yet, Kelvin Mace, here's your chance. Let us know what you contribute.

I just contributed $120.

[Kelvin Mace]

197. Well goody for you

I'm sure you are as good as your word.

[Zhade]

81. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

[Thtwudbeme]

42. OMG, I just read El Whacko Bev's Forum for Loons for the first time

I WISH I were smart enough about computers to be one of the ones they are going to oh so melodramatically "expose."

What a bunch of secret squirrel twits.

[Kelvin Mace]

46. Just post criticism and you to can be accused by Bev

and her band of loons.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Thtwudbeme]

51. OK. I just have ONE question that nobody can seem to answer:

How come if I--the MOST computer illiterate person on DU--can figure out from reading Bev's shit that she is seriously deranged---why do people still defend that nutcase?

Can one person on this board please, for the love of God, tell me why Bev Harris is even remotely taken seriously? Don't tell me about election cheating yada yada yada...I am fucking 42 years old and figured that out when the Supreme Court put Shrubbie in the WH. And I also figured out by my own damn self that the votes weren't being counted correctly.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. said best in the X-Files

"I want to believe."

Fox Mulder

[Thtwudbeme]

56. Dude, I am a religion major

I normally get this stuff.

Bev as a voting deity???

Come on!

;)

[Kelvin Mace]

59. You think I gest

but some people absolutely believe she is the virtual God of this issue. Some of them post here.

[ebayfool]

69. I think most of her people post here! I rarely venture into the Election

Reform (since it was renamed from the 2004 forum) anymore because it seems like half the threads there link to or quote her. I posted into a LBN thread yesterday that got moved to the ER forum ... & voila! Peeps coming out to defend her. Again. DUers that do want to get involved have to go elsewhere to get out from under the bevbots, or get accused of smear tactics et al.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x426456

The woman is like a yeast infection from hell - just when you think it's gone ... it's back. Or like the commercials for the toenail fungus, what's the head fungiis' name? Digger?

[Kelvin Mace]

91. I begin to wonder whether we shouldn't consider asking for

blanket ban on Bev and her postings.

She keeps posting via proxies and I suspect she even posts herself under the various low post names that pop up around here, so she has repeatedly violated the spirit of the rules. If she makes it into a news story, fine, but otherwise, I don't see why DU should be disrupted by her and her minions.

[ebayfool]

105. The Election Reform forum would function as a DU forum instead of a Bev

forum? I'd return to the fold, then! With the caveat that a breaking, breathless, this-is-hugh111 PR release from her is NOT a legitimate news source.

I'd also request that anyone who labels another DUer that posts a criticism of BH as part of the vast 'get-bev-smear-machine' be treated the same as anyone that keeps calling someone else a freeper. Anyone that dares to post their distrust or distaste of the woman is automatically labeled as part of an organized smear campaign.

She has a forum they can go to, let her pick the pockets there!

[Kelvin Mace]

108. Bev seems obsessed with what happens here

and is spending oodles of time reading posts here. Odd given the level of hostility and that fact that she was chucked off.

She is still using DU to line her pockets and I think that is just WRONG. Her presence is quite disruptive and derails serious discussion of voting reform.

[Zhade]

83. People want to be part of something big.

They often look past, say, stark raving paranoia, lies, and greed (such as purveyed by the confirmed freeper Harris) to be "part of the team". They kid themselves.

Then, too, some people are idiots.

I hope, when I once trusted her, that it was the former, and not the latter.

[Kelvin Mace]

93. It is rare in life that you find yourself

involved in an issue that Really Matters. You want to believe that your allies see the issue as you do. It is a shock to discover treachery of this magnitude.

[Zhade]

115. Yes. Yes, it is.

I don't know what's worse - that she went psycho, or the thought that she was always toying with us.

I'm sure it's the former, but MAN, she couldn't be helping the bad guys more now if she tried!

[patriothackd]

179. Throw in a few black hats and white hats for emphasis

she is the bad guy and we are the good guys.

How gullible do you think people are? What's the agenda really?

[Kelvin Mace]

198. Gullible enough to keep

Bev in skittles and beer for a while.

[troubleinwinter]

58. Well, IF she ever follows through with this amazing revelation

(which she almost never does with her breathless promises), it will be a whole convoluted, twisted, confusing bunch of bullshit, disinformation and smear lies.... It's what she does.

Her side-kick, 'John Dean' is practiced at the same sort of game: identifying various different people as being one-in-the-same, claiming to have "proof", all of which adds up to endless piles of disinformation, smear and confusion. In other words, a huge waste of time. He may even believe his own nonsense.... a paranoid crackpot in need of meds.

Considerng that she recently posted a bunch of lies about me on her Loons Forums (of course, she finally blocked me from the site so that I could not correct and answer them. Bev always gets the last word... or should I say LIE), I expect I may be one of the lucky ones to be "exposed"! How exciting.

[Thtwudbeme]

65. Ha! Will you try to remember me when you become famous?

please?

;)

She's a fruitloop---she mentioned another DUer on that site too, did you notice? I almost spit out my cocktail!

Bwhahahahahahahah

[troubleinwinter]

71. I shall permit you to bask in the gleam of my glory of being outed again!

It is now 18 months after the 2004 election. She solicited money for FOIAs to be sent to some 3,000 counties.

February 2005, I asked about documents from the FOIA effort, a month after she had solicited a high-speed scanner in order to post them.

14 months later (3 weeks ago), on the day that she chose to 'out' my name and address, I asked again about FOIA results...

"How many responses were received to the FOIAs regarding election 11/02/04? Which complied or gave other responses?"

Four counties (all in Florida) out of some 3,000 have been scanned and are posted on BBV.

From the exchange 3 weeks ago:

Initially, my question was diverted with the advice to go sift through thousands of pages such as voter instruction manuals, news reports and other documents entirely unrelated to my straight-forward question. After asking the same question numerous times, I got a variety of diversions, including:

Our working system for this has been to have a giant dry erase board in the office listing the jurisdictions, status, and which ones are the "hot" ones for additional follow up, along with the staff assignment. In additiona, we have an Excel spreadsheet -- two, actually, we don't have the stuff consolidated onto one, for boring reasons.

Actually, I think the reason for not having a tracking log available is not "boring". And with hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations, there might be a better logging system than a dry-erase board.

I do know that we have scanned many of the Nov 2004 records that aren't online yet.

Yuh, we know they "aren't on line yet" a year and a half after the election.

While our initial thought was to just load everything online, that wasn't the most useful thing for the activism movement.

The money was solicited under that "thought", but a determination was made not to do what was told to donors that their money would do? Howdy pardner.

(posted by Pat Vesely, who goes by Steve A Play on DU) No Ma'am, just that it isn't our highest priority at this time.

Not at this time, nor or at any time during the last year and a half. WHY send FOIAs then? WHY solicit the funds for it? WHY say they would be posted? Most of all, WHY IS THERE NO OVERVIEW/REPORTING OF COMPLIACE/NONCOMPLIANCE???

We don't place a valuation on input by the amount an individual has donated, but it helps to inform those who have supported Black Box Voting if they see a nonsupporter focusing only on this group.

Bev points out that I have not donated to her organization. I didn't realize that public tax exempt nonprofit organizations had to notify their supporters to "inform those who have supported Black Box Voting" before answering questions from non-donors. My questions have been repeatedly deflected to OTHER organizations, rather than BBV answering anything.

How do you intend to use this information for election reform actions?

Well, at least I still did not get an answer to my question. I am expected to explain why I want to know. Hm.

"How many FOIAs were complied with and how many were not" is not answerable without establishing definitions as to what qualifies as "complied with." We can set those definitions if you provide information on what you need the information for.

Ohkaaaay!!! Hat-tip to Bev for Rumsfeldspeak!!!


A response from one of her people:

It would be great to get a feel for these FOI results from the 2004 elections--I agree with you about that. Maybe we'll see something here soon. Stay tuned.

"Stay tuned"???!!!! WTF? It's been a year and a half, apparently somewhere between $300,000 and $1,000,000, only four counties of 3,000 have been posted, there is apparently no useful log of what counties have fully/partly/not complied with the FOIA, if one wants any information it must requested by specific county, and explain to Bev why you want it.

I did not donate, But if I had, I'd sure want some answers.

The thread is there on Bev's site (for now), if you want to read the nonsense, PM me and I will give you the link. I will not post a link here and give her extra hits to her looneybin (mods might rightly delete it anyway).

[Kelvin Mace]

103. Amazing how the questions keep getting ducked

and the creative ways they are ducked.

[Hawkeye-X]

187. Hmm.. is Bev Harris cronies allowed to post here?

Just wondering..

[Kelvin Mace]

199. Sure they can

But if they post lies, the lies will be countered. If they don't like the lies being countered, oh well.

What is not allowed is for people previously banned to post under assumed names, or by proxy. The mods are very good at ferreting such out, but it is a difficult line to walk and still maintain free expression.

[Steve A Play]

228. As it was explained to you on the BBV.org site

with such a small staff to get everything sorted, logged, analyzed, scanned, and posted to the Internet, we choose to spend our time more wisely by focusing on those people with legitimate needs for the information, rather than spending all of our time and web resources on posting and hosting every document we've collected so far. We've consequently only posted a few examples of some of the worst cases we've found. I'm sure we'll post some more as our time allows.

Our priorities will always remain with getting the information first into the hands of people in a position to actually act on it. In Volusia County it was more important to get those records into the hands of Susan Pynchon's attorney for their legal action than it was to run out and grandstand with it on Keith Olbermann's show. Had Bev made K.O. a priority over that lawsuit, you would be screaming that it was proof that she's only in this to promote herself!

Posting precinct level results tapes from Anchorage or Peoria is non productive if no one is actually going to use the documents for any real purpose. Any rational thinking person would understand that.

I'm sure it would look fabulous to have thousands of pages of links to the scanned pdf documents from each and every county, but it would also take all of our resources and then some to do that. What would the point be? I'm just as certain that if we did that instead of giving them to those who need them and doing things like the Hursti and Thompson machine security evaluations, you would still be here complaining that we're just showing off and accomplishing nothing.

I really hope some people take your advice and stop into our "looneybin" site. The best proof of what we've been doing all this time, and who we've been doing it with, is right there. :)

[LoZoccolo]

44. I think it's important to promote a Bev alternative at the same time.

This is because every time someone criticizes Bev, they get accused of sabatoging the whole movement.

I don't know much about this organization, but it seems to be working on the same issue:

http://www.verifiedvoting.org

[IndyOp]

48. And add to that

BlackBoxVoting.COM <http://blackboxvoting.com/s9/>

VotersUnite.org <http://www.votersunite.org/>

VoteTrustUSA.org <http://www.votetrustusa.org/>

Velvet Revolution <http://www.velvetrevolution.us/>

Oregon Voter Rights Coalition <http://www.oregonvrc.org/>

National Election Archive Project <http://www.uscountvotes.org/>

Fair Vote <http://www.fairvote.org/>

American Civil Liberties Union: Voting Rights <http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/index.html>

People for the American Way - Civic Participation/Voting Rights
<http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oID=114>

Solabus Election Justice
<http://www.solarbus.org/election/>

[Boredtodeath]

53. kick

.

[AllieB]

57. I wasn't here for the Bev Harris fiasco

I remember hearing her on Randi. How sad that she has used something so important to our democracy for personal gain.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. Fuck That Selfish Dishonest Bleepity Bleep. She's Not Even Worth The 1kb

of bandwith to mention her worthless name.

[Robbie Michaels]

63. Wow

David, I remember you compiling all of those links last year about Bev Harris. If she's claiming there's a smear campaign against her, I'll take it with a grain of salt. I think it's funny she's claiming these people from Diebold are using fake internet "screen names". IIRC, you discovered her real name from the Monica Cigar she was selling on the internet a few years back, so technically she's doing the same thing herself.

Trick question for y'all: What has she done to stop voting fraud?

[Catrina]

67. I don't think she's done much. I wonder if she's now working for Diebold?

I used to think she was sincere before the election and used to check her site every day, waiting for the promises she made to come true. Then, after a while, I noticed that the site often had nothing new on it ~

Then one day when I was reading the posts there, I noticed someone mentioned that her partner was a freeper! That got me worried. I didn't believe it at first, so I posted there and asked if it was true. Someone responded and said that even Freepers were worried about election fraud and I should not be worried.

Then I heard what happened with Randy Rhodes and Keith Olbermann ~ I still didn't know what to think, and it was around that time I discovered DU and began to read the threads and I was really shocked ~

The bottom line is that regardless of what happened, she is always embroiled in some kind of controversy ~ and people like that are not good for any cause. She did try to rope in the Freepers. I read through one of the threads over there when she visited them, but most of them didn't trust her, some of them reminding her how she had ripped off DUers, and they said, they were not so easily fooled.

Looks like she's telling more wild stories now ~ :eyes:

[Kelvin Mace]

104. Jim March is a wingnut

who pretends to be a "Libertarian". (One of his sigs is "Happiness is a clean kill.")

March has stated flat out publicly what his interest was:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90961&perpage=999

Bev and I are going to try and get the state and various counties their money back, possibly triple if we can prove fraud and Diebold doesn't settle.

For doing all this, Bev and I are due to split a cut of the winnings (a "bounty"). It'll vary between "bigtime fun money" each to "retirement-level" loot, depending on how it all shakes out.

It means Viacom and Diebold are now engaged in a race to see who can make ol' Jim a millionaire first.

[Cleita]

68. I heard Thom Hartman mention her website and herself

on the radio today. Somebody who knows Thom and who knows the whole history of this woman really needs to clue him in on this Black Box Voting black widow.

[autorank]

70. I have never commented on one of these threads. I'm sure I'll regret

it;)...but I have to say this.

A few weeks ago, someone showed up and attacked one of our very best posters, someone who has done wonderful work to stop election fraud. Land Shark took major grief for having the temerity to think and analyze the full impact of HR550. His work on that is first rate, I should know. I wrote an article with him on the subject. In any event, the attack started with some garbage about "HR550 Opposed by Bev Harris and Bots" and descended from there. It was guilt by association and unseemly, to say the least.

I truly hope nobody else gets smeared.

We can look forward to the day when the election fraud scandal gets so big it passes us all by an gets handled properly. In the mean time, I hope your scenario fails to pan out. There's so much to do, this would be a real shame.

[Boredtodeath]

72. So, tell me...

Where's the link to the same post at Bev Harris' site?

You see, if Ms. Harris didn't author this shit, the conversation would never be had.

So, can you explain why you come to DU to preach your trash and not to BBV to give them a sermon?

Cause seriously, when Ms. Harris considers what her behavior is doing to the movement, we can all go back to the issue.

In the meantime, a whole lot of folks have to protect themselves from libel and stalking by Ms. Harris and her goons.

[Zhade]

86. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

It's all there.

[Kelvin Mace]

94. Rule #1 if you wish credebility on this issue

Distance yourself from Bev Harris who has ZERO credibility. This is especially true if you have any hope of persuading lawmakers.

If you find yourself in agreement with Bev, check your math. If your still find yourself in agreement with Bev, don't allow her to use your work and if she does anyway, disavow her use of your work.

That said, I haven't been too impressed with the arguments against 550.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Kelvin Mace]

95. Another point to consider

When you allow your name to be tied in with Bev's you are taking on all her baggage. Bev is getting ready to launch a new smear campaign where she will ONCE AGAIN accuse voting rights activists of being in the pay of Diebold.

Do you endorse this? Do you support this?

Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Zhade]

75. Christ, she's getting MORE paranoid.

I didn't think that was possible.

Thankfully, we have all seen the evidence you and others keep on hand to remind us why no one should trust that confirmed freeper.

She does damage everywhere she goes - and I'll NEVER forgive her for helping kill Andy.

[Boredtodeath]

87. Stunning, isn't it?

Her family really needs to step in and do an intervention.

The woman needs medical care.

[Zhade]

118. I'm not convinced that it's not part of her basic personality.

She DID try to make a quick buck off "Monica cigars" - something tells me, now a scumbag, always a scumbag...she just threw on a lot of perfume to cloak the stench.

[patriothackd]

143. Imagine how paranoid it would be

to worry so much about outing a Diebold individual in North Carolina that you start a whole thread in self defense because you think it's you.

North Carolina — Population: 8,049,313

[Kelvin Mace]

166. Hammering the same talking point

are we?

[Peter Frank]

80. I'm as Pissed as You Are - Especially By What Was Done to Andy...

(Please, this is in no way a statement -- only a question.)

Do you think Bev might have been corrupted through intimidation? We were all looking forward to her expose on KO; when all of a sudden the deal fell through because Bev became unreliable. Given the stakes for the gov -- wasn't this a fortunate turn of events?

[Boredtodeath]

85. You have to wonder what was in the CA settlement docs

If you look closely, you'll notice that right after Bev Harris and Jim March got their bounty from Diebold, they quit going AFTER Diebold.

Go back, read, research - suddenly ES&S and Sequoia were on their agenda and NOT Diebold.

In fact, they didn't touch Diebold again.

One has to wonder if that settlement agreement didn't include a condition requiring Bev and Jim to leave Diebold alone.

[Peter Frank]

88. Somewhat reminiscent of the age old corruption tactic...

..."Take the bullet, or the money."???

[Boredtodeath]

89. Very fitting

One can only wonder.

[Kelvin Mace]

97. Except that no one outside Bev's imagination

has ever threatened her.

[Kelvin Mace]

96. This question comes up in some form

often. Some folks believe she works for the GOP/Diebold/Rove.

I don't.

This is a case of a woman who was an opportunist, stumbling onto something big and trying to ride it as far as it will go.

This is about ego and about money.

To paraphrase Rick James: "Fame is a helluva drug".

Bev likes the money, is addicted to the attention. At best she is mentally ill, at worst a con artist (actually the the second does not precluse the first).

If you want to know what Bev is up to, listen to what she is accusing other people of. In this case she accuses others of engaging in a smear campaign, something she is actually doing.

Classic projection.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[Peter Frank]

111. I'm not saying I'm right...

...only that it's a frustrating pattern, how accountability is kept just out of arms reach. Something always seems to go awry at the last minute.

[Boredtodeath]

112. Exactly, because.......

if we do solve the question of electronic voting, Bev Harris will be out of a career.

I believe that's exactly why she opposed HR550.

[Kelvin Mace]

125. Amen to that, brother.

[eridani]

283. Come on!

Land Shark has some very good arguments on why the bill isn't necessarily the solution to our problems. I think everyone can agree about that--the question then becomes "Is is therefore better to support it, or not?" People have posted here on both sides of this issue without involving Bev at all.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. Well I wouldn't quite put it that way

We have had some successes in individual states. Despite Bev, we have kept this issue alive and valid.

[Freddie Stubbs]

90. "Cyberlibel?"

Perhaps Ms. Harris should sue for libel. I wonder why she hasn't done so yet?

[Kelvin Mace]

98. Because she has no case

If she were in fact to sue me or anyone else for libel, the cost would come right out of the BBV coffers. No lawyer will take in on contingency since they know she has know case and the people she woudl sue have no money.

I can't sue her because BBV doesn't have enough assets to make it worthwhile for a lawyer to take on contingency (I was told to come back when BBV had $10 million in the bank).

A privately funded suit will require $150,000 to start.

[LittleClarkie]

127. That did strike me as a weird way of putting it

It doesn't bode well for someone's case if they have to invent words for it.

Let's face it though. If cyberlibel was prosecutable, the internets would be quite empty.

I wonder if she sits there with marbles in her hand saying things like "And then there was the strawberry incident, when they were all against me"

[Lars39]

99. I've come to think of her as the Ann Coulter of voting machine issues.

Seems pretty obvious by now that she was/is getting RW funding for stirring up shyte.
Her treatment of Andy was probably extremely satifying for her...like an added bonus.

[Boredtodeath]

102. Perfect analogy! n/t

.

[benburch]

100. Bev Harris....

Did she EVER file any tax documents on the MILLION BUCKS she collected right after the '04 elections?

I cannot find ANY record of her having filed her non-profit documents.

Can y'all help me out here?

Where are her filings?

And did she EVER pay her employee withholdings for 2004? Andy Stephenson never got a W2 from BBV for that year.

[troubleinwinter]

106. Her fiscal year was July 2004-June 2005,

Filing was due November 2005. She filed for an extension, so the filing is now due next Monday, May 15th.

She claims that she will post it on her site (but you know what to make of her claims and promises). ANY person can request a copy, and by law, she must provide it.

BTW, in March of 2005, here on DU "bailey77" (aka Bev) said that "an accounting firm specializing in non-profits" was working on a year-end statement for 2004 and it would be posted shortly. Of course it never was.

[Kelvin Mace]

110. That would probably be the accounting firm

run by "Sonja Johson"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=341617

[Robbie Michaels]

295. Whoa

Ben, you're onto something there.

[TorchTheWitch]

101. That lady is one incredible wacko

Seriously demented.

And seriously a friggin' thief.

What ever happened with her needing to report on her non-profit? She ever do that? Anything about where all that money went?

[troubleinwinter]

107. See post #106

[Generic Other]

109. A lesson in how a grifter works!

Sheesh. The exponential con.

[LittleClarkie]

113. It strikes me that she seems to spend more time

worrying about and trying to discredit these smears and criticisms than she does on election fraud. How Nixonian. All about her, it seems.

I still wonder if that was her over at Freeperville, talking about Andy and such, feeding the notion that he was faking.

[Kelvin Mace]

123. She seems very obsessed with DU

and obviously reads anything posted about her.

As Bobcat Goldwaith used to say, I used to work for Burger King, but after they fired me I stopped wearing the uniform.

[Fredda Weinberg]

264. Really? Then let me get my dig in

Sheesh, catching up with the developments over the past couple of years is fascinating - and so gratifying to someone who walked away from this controversy before it became criminal.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[troubleinwinter]

119. I don't think so.

I did a search of your posts. Of ALL of your posts listed, 'Kelvin Mace' responded to you exactly ONE TIME, and very politely, at that.

Stalking of posters is not tolerated here. You can hit 'alert', rather than posting such an accusation.

It is considered impolite to call fellow DUers "delusional".

[Kelvin Mace]

126. I always love this

Did this guy think we wouldn't CHECK his posts?

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[patriothackd]

189. I'm glad you are so gleeful when a dissenting opinion is stifled

I guess I am a "thought crime" to you.

Kelvin Mace: I dissent.

I dissent with the entire purpose of this thread.

[Kelvin Mace]

200. You got caught breaking the rules

and your post was deleted.

That is not stifling your opinion This thread is infested with your opinion.

[Kelvin Mace]

134. Somebody got deleted

Another low-post count Bev defender bites the dust.

[Boredtodeath]

120. Sadly, the thread is the truth

It's your lack of understanding which seems to be the problem.

[LittleClarkie]

122. Gee you mean Bev really ISN'T posting paranoid weirdness on her site?

But there's a link and everything. How could this BE?

[patriothackd]

144. Links to paranoid weirdness on Bev's site

This is very paranoid:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/2197/showdownincalifornia-27599.pdf
Talk about weird! Look at THIS one:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/73/19469.html?1141329238
Oh - My - God! This one proves once and for all she's crazy:
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/2197/23173.html
And this one: Obviously, she's a loon that should be on meds:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/9954/10071.html?1125463207

[Kelvin Mace]

183. It's called cherry picking

We have linked to Bev's weirdness in the past. Then she scrubbed the posts. We did preserve a few before they were scrubbed like the vile allegations against Andy:

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/blame_andy.htm

Care to defend that one?

Why would any sane and rational human being do that? The answer is that only a person bent on destroying another person's reputation would publicly post such a thing. When people pointed out the libelous nature of the post, she scrubbed it, but never apologized.

This is a woman who screamed about how she deserved a Pulitzer prize for her work.

Don't say "oh, it's so sad, they were such a team." This was my work product, folks. My research. My time. My publicity efforts. My proofing. My structural editing (didn't get that, either). My fact checking. My Pulitzer-Prize deserving work.

What fucking ego!

(Rebuttal to this absurd nonsense here: )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1333930#1336750

[LittleClarkie]

208. That looks like very important stuff

So important that it leaves me wondering why she's wasting time playing Nixon, worrying about people who have negative things to say about her.

The paragraph in the OP is what I was talking about, not the work she's supposed to be doing, and you know it. She's taken money and made promises that never came to fruition. Her work is noble. So I wish she'd focus on it and not getting back at people. She needs to grow up.

[Kelvin Mace]

124. I'm "stalking" YOUR posts?

Could you back this up with some evidence please?

First of all, it's KELVIN, not KEVIN. The name is based on a comic book character called KELVIN Mace. Not that it matters since I also use my own real name when posting at DU.

Second. Diebold does indeed have a factory here, but it withdrew from selling voting equipment in December of this past year.

Third, I never said it WAS me I said it could be me Bev smears, or Joyce McCloy. It could also be some other poor schlub who Bev has decided to make the focal point of her delusions.

Fourth, I have a life, thank you very much. I, unlike Bev and her defenders, I have spent good bits of it actually doing something about the voting machine problem. I have also spent a good bit of time on the civil rights issue and the anti-war issue.

And aren't you the brand spanking new critic. 48 posts and a good chunk of them from the last two days. I don't see anywhere that I am "stalking" your posts.

[Samurai_Writer]

116. I will never forgive that bitch for what she did to Andy

NEVER. May she rot in hell.

[patriothackd]

180. Inciting the nut cases.

Hoping they'll show up at her door with a gun some day are you?

I can't see that she did anything to Andy except fire him and voice an opinion before he had a formal diagnosis. That may have been unwise, but wasn't he posting her kids names all over the net?

Classic passive aggressive behavior. Goad until a response is elicited, then claim you are a victim of the response you were goading and baiting.

[Samurai_Writer]

184. Why don't you run back to scamdy.com?

Andy supposedly had health insurance under Bev. Turns out that was a lie. It detained him from getting tests and treatment, because he didn't have the insurance he was promised. So, IMO, Bev helped kill Andy, along with the right-wing nuts who complained to PayPal and tried to stop the hospital from giving him care.

Hey, my kids' names are posted all over the internet. What the hell does that have to do with denying a dying man insurance that was due him?

[Sydnie]

291. Pot meet kettle

I wouldn't want to be standing next to you when that lightening bolt of truth comes looking for you. :rofl:

[Zorra]

130. Kelvin - Do you think Bev a closet republican? n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

131. No,

I've said it before, she's an opportunist, a loon, and a bordeline sociopath.

[itzamirakul]

140. Kick!

[patriothackd]

141. You asked on another thread why I would donate to them

I donate to lots of things, all political. Most of what I donate goes to fund candidates causes and blogs.

You asked why I came down on the side of Bev Harris. Let me explain. That site is not one I normally read. I spend more time searching for trends in the mainstream news regarding another issue I am interested in. I was out of work for a short time and going stir crazy so I spent a lot of time on the internet and in the library researching information about my preferred area of activism. I ran across links to the http://www.blackboxvoting.org site. I Googled and saw the blog-bombing that was done here against Bev Harris. I read it all, including the thread about the Bev Harris story for newbies etc. etc. etc.

You asked why I decided Bev Harris was more credible than this. It's because I was so damn bored one day that I compared the body of work at each site and also the body of work at the blackboxvoting.com site with the blackboxvoting.org site. Based on the body of work published in each location I chose the one that is most credible. Also, based on the body of work published by you Kelvin Mace and the body of work published by Bev Harris, she wins hands down.

So, I just donated $100 to BlackBoxVoting.org in honor of Kelvin Mace. Each time I see you post I am going to donate again.

Kelvin Mace, you posted about an experience in North Carolina helping at the polls. Outside of that I sure can't find much that you've ever written except to slap your little group of friends on the back and attack Bev Harris.

Everyone can see that your little merry band of friends likes to drown opposing viewpoints out. I am going to invite my own friends here and most of us are war vets. No I don't support the war and watch out for joining the reserves, people. There must be more to the voting machines than I thought. We aren't afraid of you.

What I see going on here is a classic military propaganda tactic. The victimizer plays the victim.

I see in this thread that Kelvin Mace (who has followed things very closely) fails to correct information against Bev Harris when he has previously learned it is incorrect. Sometimes he repeats information he knows to be false again.

If Kelvin Mace knows things to be false yet he repeats it anyway and at the same time claims he's a victim, from my vantage point there is no question about it, Kelvin Mace is the victimizer, not the victim.

Kelvin Mace, the topic of this whole thread seems to be your fear that you are going to be smeared by Bev Harris. Yet you are not correcting anyone when they post information you know to be false, which perpetuates another smear. If you are so afraid of being smeared yourself why do you participate in these activities?

Do you ever admit your mistakes, and if so, if the upcoming article you are so convinced is going to name you or your other friend in North Carolina names someone completely different, are you going to admit you erred?

I think it will be hilarious if you are NOT the one named.

[Kelvin Mace]

147. In response

I Googled and saw the blog-bombing that was done here against Bev Harris. I read it all, including the thread about the Bev Harris story for newbies etc. etc. etc.

"Blog bombing"? So you are buying into the Bev talking point that this is a "deliberate" campaign against her? Hmmmm...

You asked why I decided Bev Harris was more credible than this. It's because I was so damn bored one day that I compared the body of work at each site and also the body of work at the blackboxvoting.com site with the blackboxvoting.org site. Based on the body of work published in each location I chose the one that is most credible. Also, based on the body of work published by you Kelvin Mace and the body of work published by Bev Harris, she wins hands down.

Hmmm.... Considering that her body of work is mostly stuff she took from other people, I guess you're right. You can't have spent much time on my site, because if you did you wouldn't keep referring to me as Kelvin Mace. This would reenforce another Bev talking pointabout people "hiding behind" pseudonyms and attacking her.

So, I just donated $100 to BlackBoxVoting.org in honor of Kelvin Mace. Each time I see you post I am going to donate again.

Be my guest.

Kelvin Mace, you posted about an experience in North Carolina helping at the polls. Outside of that I sure can't find much that you've ever written except to slap your little group of friends on the back and attack Bev Harris.

Really? Well, then let me compliment you on having research skills as thorough as your hero, Bev Harris. If you had done any real research using my real name, you wouldn't make such statements. And no, I won't do it for you. I am damned tired of having to prove my bona fides to folks like you.

What I see going on here is a classic military propaganda tactic. The victimizer plays the victim.

Bev? Is that you? It sounds like her. She is always playing the victim. She also always projects her own actions on others. Seh also loves to make false accusations. Like yesterday when you accused me of "stalking your posts" when I had answered ONE of your posts, quite civilly I might add. Why did you make that false allegation?

I see in this thread that Kelvin Mace (who has followed things very closely) fails to correct information against Bev Harris when he has previously learned it is incorrect. Sometimes he repeats information he knows to be false again.

And what information is that?

Yet you are not correcting anyone when they post information you know to be false, which perpetuates another smear. If you are so afraid of being smeared yourself why do you participate in these activities?

Again, what information is false?

If Kelvin Mace knows things to be false yet he repeats it anyway and at the same time claims he's a victim, from my vantage point there is no question about it, Kelvin Mace is the victimizer, not the victim.

This seems familiar. You know a particular tactic of Bev's was to repeat the same thing over and over again in a post. She seemed to believe that repetition made things true.

Do you ever admit your mistakes, and if so, if the upcoming article you are so convinced is going to name you or your other friend in North Carolina names someone completely different, are you going to admit you erred?

I never said I was convinced of anything. This is REALLY beginning to sound like Bev. She is famous for deliberately distorting something that was said, then heaping abuse upon the twisted interpretation.

The point of my post was that Bev was going to smear someone in NC. It is certainly not outside the realm of possibility that it could be myself or Joyce McCloy. It could also be some other poor sod who Bev has now fixated on.

What is interesting is that Diebold no longer sells voting machines to the state and has fired their only lobbyist. The concept that anyone is working to discredit Bev is a paranoid fantasy or a money-making ploy. Bev discredits herself every time she opens her mouth. And every time we call her on it over here, we can be sure that suddenly some person who just joined DU a week or two ago will rise to her defense with the same discredited arguments.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[patriothackd]

165. So now you aren't so sure

that the whole thing is about you.

[Kelvin Mace]

201. Amazing!

A line by line rebuttal to a sad argument and you jump right back to your talking point.

[Vinnie From Indy]

203. Salute' David!

Thank you for the work you do!

[ebayfool]

224. Do you agree w/Bev's insinuation that DU's Skinner & Kos are part of ...

some smear/disinformation campaign against her? If so, why are you & the other bevbots even here? For the ... ?

[Kelvin Mace]

262. Not just Skiiner and Kos

but

Keith Olbermann
Randi Rhodes
BartCop
Democrats.com
EFF
ACLU

The list goes on and on...

[LittleClarkie]

267. M-O-U-S-E

Conspiracy Mouse... Conspiracy Mouse...

(I should get more sleep.)

[Kelvin Mace]

263. Not just Skinner and Kos

but

Keith Olbermann
Randi Rhodes
BartCop
Democrats.com
EFF
ACLU

The list goes on and on...

[ebayfool]

288. Ooops, better 'prove it'! Gawd forbid, I might get sued or have her ...

'dumpster dive' my ass!

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-profile.cgi?action=rate&topic=2197&page=19693&post=19364

snip/
We are learning more about the individuals who are spreading disinformation at Kos and Democratic Underground. They are mostly small fry; people who are angry, easily led, broke, political groupies. The bigger story is the administrators of those two sites.

Democratic Underground is run by a former press secretary (i.e. communications person) for a prominent Democratic U.S. House of Representatives member. He managed some unsuccessful campaigns for other democrats. I have not been able to find the name of the congressperson he was press secretary for. That would be informative.

This would explain the heated flurry trying to pretty up her tatty rep:

snip/
I'm going on record now: Black Box Voting is going to be very aggressive about fund raising in 2006.

-----
I'd like to know why her spew is tolerated here after that kind of slur!

This statement was made recently, BTW - April '06!

[myrna minx]

202. These do sound like Bev posts.

:rofl:

[Thtwudbeme]

205. I dunno; this sounds more like Michelle Malkin to me

That masculine bravado...bragging about how smart s/he is...how rich s/he is ...

[myrna minx]

206. Well, since they're both obsessed with DU...

it could be a toss up. :rofl:

[Thtwudbeme]

204. Oh please! Could you donate when you see my name too???

Please?

I love to see PT Barnum proven right every chance I get.

[LittleClarkie]

226. Another question: I found posts by a Bev Harris on Free Republic

Do you think those are legitimately her? The person talked about election fraud and also made comments about Andy's legitimacy when he was sick.

[troubleinwinter]

231. You betcha.

She has never denied it.

On FR, she stated that she had offered assistance to Rossi's (R) recount people, but apparently not to the Dem side. I have always wondered if this violates her "non-partisan" status.

The head of the Scamdy group wanted to send flowers to her. She sent him sweet darling messages.

[Kelvin Mace]

261. That's our Bev

The one and only, we couldn't have invented her because we are not that psychotic.

[Jigarotta]

216. I've noticed

that Kelvin Mace doesn't contribute too much more to DU, in general content, than his Bev thing.

I find that odd.

[Catherine Vincent]

217. Nothing wrong with it. That's his business if he wants to do that.

[Jigarotta]

218. just wondering what his business is, is all. nt

[troubleinwinter]

220. Really?

Huh. What an odd question. I would not ask you what your business is. He has stated many times here on DU over the years. I certainly don't know what yours is, as you have no profile.

I thought I might find some insight into what your "business" is, but was unable to find any posts by you prior to May 1.

[Jigarotta]

221. I meant the business he does here.

I know he's into election fraud things.

So what do I do have any relevance to what now, re: my profile statement?

ahh, I get it, if I don't Spill personal data, I may be a 'freeper"?

[troubleinwinter]

223. I beg your pardon?

I did not accuse you of being a 'freeper', and you know it. Why say such a thing? If you feel that I did, hit the alert button.

You said it yourself: "he's into election fraud". Yes, he has a long record of working on the issue.

Kelvin Mace does not do "business" here. He does not solicit money for his work on election reform.

[Jigarotta]

227. what has my profile got to do anything with this all.

is what I'm asking, seeing as you brought it up, I want an answer.

[troubleinwinter]

229. Not much at all.

You asked "just wondering what his business is", so I became curious what yours might be, and what you may have cared to share with your fellow DUers. The answer is, nothing.

Kelvin Mace has been on DU for several years, and in each and every one of his posts, he shows his websites. Yet you claimed to wonder what his business is.

You commented that "Kelvin Mace doesn't contribute too much" to DU, so I checked to see if you might know about his contributions and work over the last years.

It isn't about your profile at all. I became curious about your comments, since Kelvin Mace is a well known election reform activist, and I was curious to see your profile to determine if you'd been around long enough to know about his fine work and dedication.

Seemingly not. Your comments are foolish.

[Jigarotta]

230. making dinner, just a fast one here...

"""You commented that "Kelvin Mace doesn't contribute too much" to DU, so I checked to see if you might know about his contributions and work over the last years. """

===
I suppose he contributes to the Election Reform here?
Will have to look.
bets are its about the BEV rather than the real purpose. but as I say,... or maybe you can link me to something Mace Non Bev?....

[troubleinwinter]

239. No, "Kelvin Mace doesn't contribute too much" was YOUR comment.

YOU back it up.

Most here know a whole lot better than that bullshit. We know his work.

[Jigarotta]

243. I only know what I can see at times....

but I have only two eyes as anyone else.

Hard not to notice that his posts are BEV, rather than election reform.

[Kelvin Mace]

275. Take it easy

I am happy to answer her questions. :)

[troubleinwinter]

277. Ok, I'll try. I just got a little hot under the collar, having

just reviewed Bev's posts playing kissy-face over at freepland.

[Kelvin Mace]

280. Undertsandable

But I am not ready to assume everyone who questions my actions as a Bev-bot. She hasn't made me that cynical yet. ;)

[Kelvin Mace]

274. Since you asked

I do discuss other isses besides Bev Harris

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=695976
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=426627
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=406820
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=407529
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5392032&mesg_id=5392032
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=170&topic_id=5097
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=407694#407856
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=406283#406287
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=208&topic_id=6592#6700

There's plenty more in various forums.

And I do quite a bit of work on stopping paperless voting.

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=59&Itemid=130
http://www.dfalink.com/feeds/group-events/58
http://www.ncvoter.net/events.html
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002129.htm (comments section)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5675040
http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=79719
http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/2004/11/n_20.html
http://www.locustfork.net/blog/archives/cat_impeach_president_bush.html (involvement in Citizens Impeachment Committee)
http://www.rrdailyherald.com/articles/2006/01/02/news/news2.txt
http://www.unctv.org/legweek/transcript021105.html
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:6qbrWENMLv8J:www.ncleg.net/Committees/jointselectcomm_1/2005interimrepo/2005interimrepo.doc+%22david+allen+%22+%22select+committee%22+voting&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=43&client=firefox-a
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:lrPbKfuwvG4J:www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite%3Fpagename%3DWSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle%26c%3DMGArticle%26cid%3D1031780394363+%22david+allen+%22+%22select+committee%22+voting&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=46&client=firefox-a
http://www.greensboro101.com/newswire/display/376/index.php
http://mobile.newsobserver.com/print/thursday/opinion/story/2591929p-9026535c.html

I appeared in this documentary (wherein Bev actually says nice things about me)
http://invisibleballots.com/

Quoted in Wired! magazine:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.01/evote_pr.html

[LittleClarkie]

225. Archives.

You forgot to search the archives.

He/she has been here since late March.

[Jigarotta]

232. what did you edit?

hmmm?

[troubleinwinter]

238. Gee. I dunno. I think I added a sentence within a minute.

Does it matter? Just added some thoughts. WTF is the point?

[Jigarotta]

241. I think you deleted, and did not add.

but whatever.
I know how this show goes.

[gkhouston]

219. actually, he does talk about election reform without

discussing Bev, but yes, election reform is something he's devoted a lot of his time to. If you'd witnessed some of the Sturm Und Drang from the sidelines in 2004 and 2005 perhaps it would a bit easier to understand.

[Jigarotta]

222. I assume he's done good work.

I like to assume that of everyone.
What I can't understand is his spending time on rabid hate for an 'opponent', rather than talk about election stuff.

I see a Kelvin Mace post - it's a natural he's got something to say about Bev, instead of Election Issues.

[Kelvin Mace]

279. Here's the trouble

Bev Harris and her whacka-loons make my job VERY hard. So, yes, I do spend time rebutting her various lies and schemes.

If Bev would just go back to peddling Monica brand cigars to the Rush Limbaugh crowd like she used to, we would all be very happy.

[Kelvin Mace]

265. It is a matter of time

I write for a blog, have three jobs, and just spent two days as a "roving tech" during the NC primary elections.

I used to post quite a bit and hope to do so again. Lately (the last year or so) I have been in "reaction" mode.

Friday I will be live blogging at the "Crashing the Gates" book signing (Markos Zuniga and Jerome Armstrong of the Daily Kos)

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com

[happydreams]

233. The only question I have is BBV's actions

exposing the Diebold crooks useful?

I think yes.

[Jigarotta]

234. I had no idea of the extent of the elections fraud before BBV

but that doesn't matter.

it seems. let's get personal. :(

[LittleClarkie]

236. That's the problem actually

She used to have an account here before she got banned. And she got banned because she was getting personal. She also got personal about Andy Stephenson, both here and at a Republican site called Free Republic. Whether or not he had cancer had nothing to do with election fraud.

There is perhaps a history that you are not aware of with her. If she only talked about fraud, and not about who she thought was saying mean things about her (and really, this is the internet. Of course there's going to be a certain level of that. One needs to let it roll off of one's back).

And there have been those who worked with her who felt used and let us know via DU. There are those who donated to her cause who feel like they got bilked. And there are those who miss Andy, and didn't appreciate it when she fed the rumors that he wasn't really sick.

I don't think she was equipped for the attention she got. She may not have started out this way, but her reaction to that attention hasn't been positive for the most part.

[Jigarotta]

237. just saying,... by the infrequent times...

I go to blackboxvoting.com or org.

Org seems to be lively and tuned into the issue.
Allen's .com is just here for more Gladys Gravitiz stuff it seems.

spend more time on the Issue? huh?

[Jigarotta]

240. whatever. it was BBV that opened my eyes to election fraud.

what is more important to you?

[LittleClarkie]

244. "Whatever" is not the answer when someone died

I'm glad your eyes were opened.

But that doesn't mean the woman can't have flaws, can it?

And there are those who helped her in that crusade who feel like she screwed them.

But to answer your question in part, I don't think she's done the election reform issue that many favors. Last time I heard her in the media, it was on Coast to Coast. Lovely show to go on if you want to be taken seriously, don't you agree? Sandwiched between the freaks and the geeks, perhaps the listeners now think that Diebold was rigged by aliens.

[Jigarotta]

246. we all have flaws, denying is a lie.

'whatever ' is not so much a dismissal but an acceptance so much of us have.
accept lies, when convenient.

[LittleClarkie]

249. So yours is the "Rummy" response?

You go to war with the warrior you have, and not the one you may need or want? Is that about it?

[Jigarotta]

252. not quite the same pay and perks...

and influence on DEAD and live BODIES. lol.

GOSH. that's the biggest insult or elevation to me ever, kudos to you for your paint brush.

do not compare me to Rummy because I may have a difference of opinion than yours. You Cheapen yourself with that remark. You make the Bush happen.

shame on you

[LittleClarkie]

255. Eh, if you want to take it that way, fine

It's my standard answer, even when talking about John Kerry. If one likes the message, sometimes one can't help the messanger. That's all that was meant. That particular Rummy quote has a hundred and one applications.

But if you'd rather take offense, knock yourself out.

[Jigarotta]

256. I take offense.

I am as unRummy as you can get. Do not pool me into that pond. That was a cheap shot, but unfortunately used at best all the time. It's obviously working.

[liberalnurse]

250. Right now......I'd like the Bev Harris Trolls

to be Tombstoned.

[Jigarotta]

254. I agree.

but you must have definite definitions for it.
Trolls are the people who don't accept the Gladys Gravitz assumations, the gossip? or are trolls that may have simple honest questions like on the freeper boards?

[Sydnie]

293. Gladys Kravitz --- not Gladys Gravitz --- Just saying

I assume you were referring to Bewitched, right? :rofl:

We were Bewitched ... but now we're not ... into the Bothered and Bewildered portion of the thread!

[Boredtodeath]

242. You would be wrong

So, tell me, please.....

How many Diebold voting machine sales has BBV stopped?

How many states, counties, or precincts have tossed Diebold voting machines and gone to paper?

In fact, how many states, counties, or precincts have tossed Diebold voting machines, period? The answer is ONE - Leon County, Florida - only to go back to Diebold.

How many states, counties, or precincts have refused to buy Diebold because of BBV? The answer is NONE.

However, thanks to the NC activists, Diebold refused to do business with North Carolina!

Oh my, the only EFFECTIVE group has been the one associated with David Allen (aka Kelvin Mace)!!!!!

[Jigarotta]

245. you assume too much.

and blame someone else for not correcting the unccorrectable.

I'd go crazy paranoid too if the future of honest elections where laid at my feet and if I just Can't Do It... tiny lil me.

look for killing me, don't look at the system that is killing us all.

[Boredtodeath]

286. Afraid not

I was answering the question of whether or not BBV was making a difference.

The answer is NO.

No assumption necessary.

The facts bear me out.

[troubleinwinter]

251. Only one question, huh?

It matters not if she stole others' work?

It matters not if she took credit for others' work?

It matters not if she smeared them in the process?

It matters not if she smeared other activists?

You have already stated that only one thing matters to you. That she has climbed and trod upon others matters not at all to you.

'The ends justify the means'???!!??

Oops! I forgot to say how the cause itself has suffered among potential allies in elections offices and in media because of her antics.

It does not matter to you. You have only ONE question. And it's all about BEV. It doesn't matter whose work she took credit for or stole. It doesn't matter how many who might have listened and helped to get the message out, but were burnt by Bev so the message was not put out on the air. Your only question relates to BEV.

Fuck Bev.

If you care so much about the issue, rather than defending BEV, there are other organizations that can surely use a person who is dedicated to the work.

Oh... and fuck Bev.


(Note: Edited for Jigarotta to indicate there were no edits except for this note.)

(Note #2: Edited the word "We" to the word "I". Fuck Bev.)

[Jigarotta]

257. it kinda matters that you have evidence?

nah.

[troubleinwinter]

259. Hahahahaha!!!!!! Good one!

Ya sure got me with that one.:rofl: Those of us following and working on this issue for a coupla years sure did just fall off the turnip truck!

The information and evidence has been presented over and over and over and over and over and over and over... but one must have eyes to see and a mind understand it.

Oh, well. :shrug:

(Edited to add: Fuck Bev.)

[Jigarotta]

268. I don't take your turnip truck as evidence.

Guess it's a history I'm unaware of.

Hard, solid evidence that BBV is a scam. I hear mostly stupid gossip here. If you have the evidence, take it to court and sue her ass off instead of being Gladys Gravitz's. It demeans you more than her.

[troubleinwinter]

273. "Gladys Gravitz's"

You may wish to explain the term.

Google doesn't turn up much but another post of yours on DU.

Maybe it would help if you would say what you are talking about, rather than using odd unfamiliar terms, so that we might try to follow along with your thinking.

[LittleClarkie]

285. Bewitched. TV show. Nosy next door neighbor known to gossip

Hence, our friend is using her name to call someone a gossip.

[Catrina]

282. Yes, it is history you seem to be unaware of, that's why it was suggested

you read the evidence presented. But if you don't want to do that, I don't know how you can see the 'solid evidence'. It takes a little work. I read it, it did take a while, but I wanted to be sure since I once trusted Bev Harris ~ but, noone can force you to read if you don't want.

Or maybe your mind is made up so it wouldn't matter what you read ~

[Jigarotta]

270. I'm ducking out of this...

perplexing to me how BBV is even more eviler than the * by some here.

game. point.

[troubleinwinter]

271. ? show me where I said that.

I never used the word "scam". Read my posts again. I said many other things about Bev Harris.

No one here said "BBV is even more eviler (sic) than the *".

If you wish to stop posting nonsense here, that is an excellent decision.

If you care about working for election reform, there are many other organizations that would welcome assistance.

(Edit- Ooops, sorry, forgot: Fuck Bev.)

[Kelvin Mace]

278. Evil is relative

To some, Bev is worse than Bush. Bush didn't make it his business to make someone's last days on earth a living Hell, as Bev did.

Set. Match.

[liberalnurse]

294. Yes, she is more vile than *bush.

Nothing perplexing about Bev and her minions....they have no souls and display covert behaviors equal to that of sexual predators.

[Kelvin Mace]

276. Tons of evidence out there...

Start here:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Kelvin%20Mace/2

[ChrisdemW]

272. Is she related to Katherine Harris?

sorry if its a dumb question

[troubleinwinter]

281. There is no reason to think so at all. Welcome to DU!

[Stephanie]

287. oh geez - does the Diebold smear squad include any blondes from New York?

Cause if that's true I'm wondering where my check is.

No, you're not paranoid Bev. :eyes:

[Moderator]

296. locking....

This has turned inflammatory.