Amendment 4 Blues

[H2O Man]

There is speculation that President Bush is planning to nominate General Michael Hayden to serve as the next director of the CIA tomorrow. Hayden, the former Director of the NSA and the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence, seems like a pleasant fellow. I have no doubt that he is sincere in his patriotism. However, I think that the DCI should be familiar with the US Constitution, including the Bill of Rights.

On Monday, January 23, 2006, General Hayden met with the National Press Club to discuss concerns about the Bush administration's domestic spying policy. Before we take a closer look at some of the Q&A from that day, let's review Amendment 4 to the Constitution of the United States.

Amendment 4: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrents shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now, to the press conference, in which General Hayden was attempting to answer journalists' questions about how the administration's domestic spying program appears to violate the 4th amendment. James Bamford asked General Hayden two questions towards the end of the conference.

JB: ... Just to clarify sort of what's been said ... the change from going around the FISA law was to -- one of them was to lower the standard from what they call for, which is basically probable cause to a reasonable basis; and then to take it away from a federal court judge, the FISA court judge, and hand it over to a shift supervisor at NSA. Is that what we're talking about here -- just for clarification?

GH: You got most of it right. The people who make the judgement, and the one you just referred to, there are only a handful of people at NSA who can make that decision. ... So in military terms, a senior colonel or general ooficer equivalent; and in professional terms, the people who know more about this than anyone else.

JB: Well, no, that wasn't the real question. The question I was asking, though, was since you lowered the standard, doesn't that decrease the protections of the U.S. citizens? ...

GH: ... I think you've accurately described the criteria under which this operates, and I think I at least tried to accurately describe a changed circumstance, threat to the nation, and why this approach -- limited, focused -- has been effective.

(At this point, the fellow serving as moderator recognized that James Bamford was not the person for General Hayden to be questioned by, if the "lower standards" issue was to be avoided. Mr. Hill announced, "Final question," and picked on Jonathan Landay from Knight Ridder.)

JL: ... I'd like to stay on the same issue, and that had to do with the standard by which you use to target your wiretaps. I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to be able to do a search that does not violate an American's right against unlawful searches and seizures. Do you use --

GH: No, actually -- the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure.

JL: But the --

GH: That's what it says.

JL: But the measure is probable cause, I believe.

GH:The amendment says unreasonable search and seizure.

JL: But does it not say probable --

GH: No. The amendment says --

JL: The court standard, the legal standard --

GH: --unreasonable search and seizure.


This press conference was filmed. Again, while no one questions that General Hayden is a good man, and a patriot, it was clear that he was not familiar enough with the Fourth Amendment to recognize a quote from it when he heard it. This may, in part, explain why he did not recognize that the NSA's domestic spying program was in violation of the U.S. Constitution. The news media, and progressives and liberals, should be using this film and the transcript to remind the American public, and the Congress, why General Hayden is not the correct choice for the position of Director of the Central Intelligence Agency

[annabanana]

1. THANK you!

I have a thread around here somewhere looking for this clip...

[H2O Man]

2. I had been thinking

about it since Friday. Then I googled "Gen. Hayden James Bamford" -- and there it was! It is an extremely important clip.

[annabanana]

3. link (from heiderheld)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video/Countdown-nsa-Hayden.wmv

[acmavm]

4. You say unfamiliar, I say he's intentionally and willfully putting a spin

on it to the bush** administration's advantage.

[H2O Man]

7. It does seem odd

that he could be so wrong on something like the Fourth Amendment, doesn't it?

[Faygo Kid]

5. Shocking. Add it to the "grounds for impeachment" list

I question whether a person in such a sensitive position advocates warrantless spying on Americans, and is shockingly (or conveniently) ignorant of that "piece of paper," is "a good man, and a patriot." I tire of seeing this crowd being given the benefit of the doubt. At this point, it should be exactly the opposite - the skepticism for any Bush appointment should be immediate and strong, with the burden on the nominee to demonstrate being "a good (person), and a patriot."

[saskatoon]

13. " I tire of seeing this crowd being given the benefit of the doubt."

Hear, Hear! and thanks for your remarks, we need more people TELLING IT LIKE IT IS and not being so gd polite.

[Me.]

6. What Also Bothers Me About This

Is that he is a general. Too much of our intelligence is being given over to the military in one form or another. Rumsfeld gets most of the intelligence budget as it is. Eisenhower warned us about this.
This sort of thing is what leads to *shadow governments*.

[MikeNearMcChord]

10. There was also a General

the head of the US Northern Command, who wanted to see the Posse Comitatus Act weakened in the war on terrah! I am of the opinion, that nobody should be allowed to be an serving officer in the US military unless they understand the Constitution, it ought to be taught in the service academies, and they must take bi-annual test, until they hit Major then it must be annually(have the ACLU give it) any officer who flunks, gets kicked out, any officer violates in the US. gets sent to prison for treason, end of story!:rant:

[hootinholler]

15. It should be recited to upperclassmen much as the general orders are.

Recited at West Point and Annapolis. This Sir is what we've sworn to defend! I like it!

-Hoot

[Pithy Cherub]

8. The Fourth Amendment is the biggest impediment

to spycraft. Probable cause is the language of the Constitution and the new bush interpretation of "reasonable" cause so as to continue the quest for empire and American imperialism. It is also the specious underpinning for Bush's failed pre-emptive doctrine. Global 'Manifest Destiny' for the 21st Century.

Most forget that Echelon, Carnivore and dictionary data mining were projects started and fed under Hayden's watch at NSA. Bamford is without peer on reporting on the NSA. The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency From the Cold War Through the Dawn of a New Century give even more basis for compiling a richer profile of General Hayden and his quest to change the intelligence business. The NSA used the CIA for a multitude of joint projects so there is a history there analgous to a long marriage begun in 1947.

But not getting the probable cause clause correct is a very scary "accidental" coincidence for a guy who is very very careful and Bamford would know.

[stop the bleeding]

9. This video never gets old for me -

as a son of 2 retired career Army, one officer one non-commissioned, I have the up most respect for the Armed Services and their people, but this is scary.

General Hayden let me draw a line in the sand for you so that you do not get confused.

Amendment 4: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


They are trying to lower the bar and in effect weaken the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Thank you Waterman

[bleever]

11. He went on to say that if there's any amendment the NSA knows,

it's the Fourth Amendment.

Doesn't speak well for his knowledge of the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[annabanana]

12. That was the comment that particularly infuriated me...

They "know" becasue they say they "know". . (And that's all we need to know about that)

[bleever]

17. His irritated dismissal of the standard being "probable cause" did suggest

contempt, didn't it?

I don't know very much about the guy, but I did have a visceral reaction to that moment.

[xxqqqzme]

14. Didn't Olberman name him 'worst person in the world'

because of that quote?

[Jesterstear]

16. I blame drunk driving checkpoints

The 4th Amendment was pretty much killed when the courts declared it was legal to harass people at checkpoints despite having no reasonable or probable cause to believe that they were driving impaired.

The courts allowed it and the citizens allowed it, which told the government they could take away our rights if they gave a good enough reason.

[zippy890]

18. Fourth amendment blues is right

hoping they give put Hayden through the wringer during confirmation hearings

[robertpaulsen]

19. That's exactly what I thought of when I heard his name mentioned.

If he is indeed the nominee, I hope someone in Congress throws this back in his face during the confirmation hearings.

[Time for change]

20. Great point

Yes indeed, it would be highly desirable to have a CIA Director who is familiar with the Bill of Rights

Also, it would be highly desirable to have a CIA Director who doesn't act like he is certain about things that he knows little about.

[H2O Man]

21. Yes.

It just doesn't seem that the general fits that description.

[lonestarnot]

22. Well everyone knows there must be a top gustapo to enforce the spy'n

and law breaking. We couldn't have legitimate torture w/o the likemindedness.

[H2O Man]

23. Stephen Hadley

is vouching for him right now on MSNBC. What could be better?

[McCamy Taylor]

24. Spies are supposed to be smart. This man is STOOPID!

The CIA can function with an ethically challenged leader (hell, it got along fine with George Senior), but how is it supposed to get anything done with a moron who can not even remember the Bill of Rights at its helm. Hayden was not pretending not ti remember that 4th. He really didnt know the 4th. The man is a blithering idiot, who got where he is, because he does what he is told, in true Pentagon fashion.

[Skeptor]

25. In any other Western democratic nation

the idea that the military could be involved in internal security operations against the citizenry would bring down a government, and yet all the fuss is about the technical terms of the Fourth Amendment. Astonishing!

[Ms. Clio]

26. Democracy Now hitting this today

with video of his chilling failure to understand the Fourth Amendment.

What really struck me, and perhaps it shouldn't?, is that a man in a uniform was talking about civilian affairs, and revealed his complete lack of comprehension about basic Constitutional rights.

Updated to add: also an interview with Stephen Kinzer, author of Overthrow: America’s Century of Regime Change From Hawaii to Iraq.

[Just Me]

27. A military state/republic. That freaks me out,...but,...oh,well,...

x(

Yes, my body is shaking. I've been feelin' like "Cassandra" for quite some time.

These are suppose to be "Americans". WTF is happening? Is this like a crazy "Manchurian" thingy gone wild?

good lord