"Our Descent Into Hell Has Begun"

[BrklynLiberal]

May 4, 2006
Message from a Vet of My Lai Time

"Our Descent Into Hell Has Begun"

By TONY SWINDELL

A few weeks ago we got a friendly letter from Tony Swindell, a newspaper editor in Sherman, Texas. "Begin paying attention," Swindell urged, ''to stories from Iraq like the very recent one about U.S. Marines killing a group of civilians near Baghdad. This is the next step in the Iraq war as frustration among our soldiers grows -- especially with multiple tours.

''I served with the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, Americal Division, and My Lai was not an isolated incident. We came to be known as the Butcher's Brigade, and we also were the birthplace of the Phoenix Program. The brigade commander and a battalion commander were charged with murdering civilians (shooting them from helicopters, recorded in some of my photos), although both skated. If you recall from his autobiography, Colin Powell served briefly with the 11th in Duc Pho before going to division HQ in Chu Lai.

''The atrocities against Iraqi civilians are slipping under the media radar screen, but they're going to explode in America's face not too long from now and dwarf the Abu Ghraib (sic) incident. That was a fraternity beer bust by comparison. The Ft. Sill episode is another one of the same storm clouds on the horizon. I sincerely fear for our country.''

We asked Swindell to expand these thoughts. Here's his powerful response. AC/JSC

In Iraq, our descent into hell, our "Apocalypse Now" moment, has begun. First there was Gitmo, then the global rendition program, then Abu Ghraib, then the pulverizing of Fallujah, and now trigger-happy raids that are filling multitudes of sandy graves with men, women and children. Has "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" become the mission in Babylon? Can't anyone remember Vietnam, where we left behind more than a million dead civilians? In Iraq, we've way past the half-million mark, probably the million mark, if you count the 1990s sanctions. Are the American people as blind and deaf as they seem? Don't we see ourselves walking through the gates of hell and can't we hear the doors clanging shut on our country?

Who am I to say all this, you might ask. Fair enough, I reply. So let me tell you a story about monstrous crimes and tragedies from my generation about to be repeated in Iraq in front of the whole world. First, understand that a single soldier can't be expected to grasp the total criminality of war because his whole universe is a tiny place right in front of his nose. So he can stay alive. If he knew everything that was going on, he would be heartbroken, and if he also knew why, he would go insane.

The narrowness of his vision is exactly how even the best and most humane soldier unwillingly becomes a monster, and the people who create war know this. Out of grief and rage, with the stench of his buddy's shredded flesh in his nostrils, the soldier stops asking questions and then begins making up his own rules with a rifle. He has touched the heart of darkness and there's no going back ever. Embracing the whore called war destroys morality, and doing all this in a dishonorable cause compounds the damage.

<skip>

More....

http://www.counterpunch.com/swindell05042006.html

[TomInTib]

1. All of this is landing really hard at my house..

One of these days I will gather the will and courage to post on DU some of my experiences regarding this particular Hell.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

7. There will be a lot of us who . . .

. . . will listen to you.

[cyclezealot]

16. Today's news of Iraqi's cheering a downed UK Copter

I fear is not isolated. And it reflects the will of the Iraqi people.Can you imagine how this plays with fatiqued troops.
The damage the US will suffer in the Middle East from Bush's adventures. I fear this hell you speak of will be a jihad.
and to think how the Swiftboat people attacked Kerry with his 'supposed' slander against US troops in VietNam. Swiftboat liars, said Kerry said such about our troops, when they lied and put the testimony of other former US troops as given in the "Winter Soldiers" testimony before investigative committees.
and the Swiftboaters got away with their lies and no one challenged their deceitful tactics, including Kerry.
Your willing ot recall such attrocities. Takes a lot of bravery, when I am sure you would rather forget it.

[cyberpj]

37. If and when you're ready -- there are many here who can relate.

And lots more who will just listen and learn.

Wishing you peace.

[Toots]

40. I have lived forty years with guilt by association from what I witnessed.

Americans can be and are barbarians when presented with the opportunity. I actually witnessed joy at behavior that was most decidedly against Geneva Protocol. Certainly not all but also not just a few behaved in such a manner. Barbaric and Sadistic.

[japple]

55. Most of the people who have served in the armed forces during

a war have stories that they will carry to their graves. My father served in WWII and Korea. He will talk about WWII and we go to his army reunions every year, but he doesn't talk at all about Korea and never has. There is a strange silence about Korea and we haven't begun to hear all the stories about Viet Nam. I hope that one day, all those who served in these conflicts will be freed of the trauma caused by war, and that we come to realize that wars don't solve anything.

[hobbit709]

2. The main reason our "leaders"

are setting this up, besides the fact that none of them have experienced the horror of war, is that they are too stupid/arrogant to learn.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

9. Their arrogance is astonishing.

Murderous, pathological liars.

[bluestateguy]

3. I no longer pay attention to the Iraq War

I just give up.

[Erika]

4. You must not have relatives serving

What a luxury to just give up...and cop out

[The Gunslinger]

30. But the "liberal media" only shows the bad things.

I've been saying for a long time that it's worse there than we see from the government sponsored right wing news media outlets. Stories like this prove it.

[neoblues]

33. If Only they could find some Good Stuff to report...

Since they can't even leave their compounds except as 'embeddeds' without likely being killed, and since there probably isn't much 'good' stuff happening (and even that's probably been over-reported), it's some surprise we don't hear much good news from there.

However, if you take into consideration the republican theory of reporting... wherein, in the interests of "fair and balanced" coverage, both sides of a story are supposed to get "equal" coverage--even when one side of the story almost infinitely outweighs the other side (and/or one side of the story is THE ONLY TRUTH (critically important to be told) and the other is nearly or entirely FALSE, fabricated, fantasy-based 'counterspin' (unworthy of mention)), we see the "logic" of their complaints. After all, the good and bad are supposed to get "equal" coverage... so, if there were only three good things that happened, you can't report the 10,000 terrible/violent events--you must only report three. Duh.

edit: previous version was just too far out.

[TomInTib]

6. Give up? You must be kidding.

I did 3 tours in Vietnam, the Grandaddy of all FuckUps, and I will never give up - I will never gve in.

Come on, man. You're better than that.

[sweetheart]

38. Our externalized civil war

The new american model is to export our civil war so
that other people die to kill our evil men, and
hopefully, one day, banrupt the prison empire.

[bdamomma]

65. that is what this regime wants the american people to do

turn a blind eye, and let them continue what they are doing, sorry I can't do it.

[upi402]

5. blame the tv news traitors

americans are not blind and deaf, just easy to fool

[CrazyOrangeCat]

8. Please rate this up, people.

It doesn't get any more important than this.

Fuckin' chickenhawk freepers ought to be forced to read it.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. K&R

[Kurovski]

11. K&R.(nt)

[IChing]

12. To quote the bushen-fuhrer

"But as a result of evil,
there's some amazing things
that are taking place in America."


Daytona Beach, Florida, Jan. 30, 2002
photo May 6, 2006

on edit the photo was not photoshopped thanks to the poster SoCalDem and his thread here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


We have not reached the depths of hell for this nation
and unfortunately many of the '"good patriotic germans,
I mean patriotic americans have not had to witness this nation's sins
because of the media. complacency and duplicity with the regime.

Hopefully the truth, no matter how painful,
will be revealed

[druidity33]

29. whoah

Where's this pic from? I tried the link you supplied... URL not found. Are you SURE it wasn't photoshopped?

[dogday]

34. here is one that is photoshopped

[hootinholler]

42. That was a bad link...

Try this thread. It was photoshopped, but only to make it B&W.

-Hoot

[druidity33]

47. WOW!

What was the event? Some honorary degree perhaps?

[IChing]

46. Sound bite for the picture ...here

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/%7Etaierip/imperial%5Fmarch.mp3

Only the grayscale was changed in the picture

[catmandu57]

53. Her

Him is a her who has done some remarkable work over the past five years.
I don't know what will wake americans up to what goes on there Saigon68 says in his sig line, War it's like xbox except you actually die.

edit: spelling

[AzDar]

62. OMFG....that photo is one of the scariest things I've ever seen. n/t

[Amonester]

13. K&R

[Maraya1969]

14. K&R

[walldude]

15. K&R.. man that is some intense reading. n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

19. intense?

understatement of the day. I'm speechless and heartbroken. :(

[walldude]

21. Hell after I finished the link page I googled Phoenix Program

I've spent the better part of the last few hours reading up on it. Now I'm more freaked out and paranoid than ever...

[BigBearJohn]

17. How the hell does anyone respond to this. Overload.

[Voltaire99]

18. Good piece. Good site, Counterpunch. (nt)

[Faryn Balyncd]

20. powerful

[Control-Z]

22. paranoid and dramatic

'I listen in vain to hear the voices of young Americans who will be directly and immediately affected. Current events in the Middle East should be a paramount issue, but, inexplicably, the kids are completely nonchalant. Raised on the Internet and X-Boxes, maybe Iraq is just another Hollywood-style media production to them. But, I'm going to make a prediction. Our salvation will come when Selective Service notices begin arriving in mailboxes, and make no mistake, they are coming.'

My older sister returned this past December after a year in the Middle East. Though in a relatively safe location I counted the days, waiting for her safe return home. She turned 50 in January.

My 19 year old niece, following in mother's footsteps, signed on last year. She had a good four years of school and training between her and active duty, she assured me. Now there's only three.

My son turned fifteen this year. He was still a baby when this war began - he still will be three years from now.

I've been called paranoid and dramatic. Add to that angry and heartbroken.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

32. .

:hug:

[Vidar]

23. K&R

[leftchick]

24. the descent began in 2003

for anyone paying attention they would know the US has been killing innocents in Iraq since 2003. The US bombs homes with whole families in them weekly.

[cassiepriam]

25. Excellent and very true. Except we are already deep in hell....

the descent began some time ago.

[babylonsister]

26. K&N. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. "Apocalypse Now"

Can someone explain the premise of that movie? Was it a descent into insanity? Is that why they let the insane soldier live and killed the sane one?

[WinkyDink]

36. Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness."

[IndyOp]

28. Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War, Sanctions 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead

Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War, Sanctions 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead

In 15 Years (1991-2006), the US has caused/contributed to 1,000,000 Iraqi deaths

Persian Gulf War: 150,000
Gulf War Aftermath: Many thousands
UN Sanctions: Primary cause of 600,000 deaths
Iraq War: 250,000

The Persian Gulf War did not have to happen: Hussein did not invade Kuwait until after he had received an assurance from April Gillespie that the "US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts." Even if he had invaded, alternatives to war were available.

The Gulf War Aftermath Encouraged by American radio broadcasts to rise up against their ‘dictator’, the Kurds of northern Iraq rebelled against a nominally defeated and certainly weakened Saddam Hussein in March of 1991. Fear of being drawn into an Iraqi civil war and possible diplomatic repercussions precluded President Bush from committing US forces to support the Kurds. Within days Iraqi forces recovered and launched a ruthless counteroffensive including napalm and chemical attacks from helicopters. They quickly reclaimed lost territory and crushed the rebellion. By the first week of April, 800 to 1,000 people, mostly the very young and the very old, were dying each day. link Al Franken has said that many 100,000's of Kurds and Shia were slaughtered, but I do not have a printed source.

UN (US/UK Sanctions) The United Nations Security Council has maintained comprehensive economic sanctions on Iraq from August 1990 until March 2003. Sanctions in Iraq hurt large numbers of innocent civilians not only by limiting the availability of food and medicines, but also by disrupting the whole economy, and reducing the national capacity of water treatment, electrical systems and other infrastructure critical for health and life. The oil-for-food program provided an average of $200 per year for each of 23,000,000 Iraqis - well below the international poverty level. In the UN Security Council, countries urged the US and UK to allow the sanctions to be lifted, but the US/UK would not allow this.

Iraq War A Johns Hopkins University study published in the British medical journal The Lancet in October, 2004. // The figure of 100,000 had been based on somewhat "conservative assumptions", notes Les Roberts at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, U.S., who led the study. That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data from this town is included, the compiled studies point to about 250,000 excess deaths since the outbreak of the U.S.-led war. // Eman Ahmad Khamas.... said: "This occupation has destroyed Iraq. Americans don't know that tens of thousands of Iraqis are in prisons. Americans don't know how many have been killed. Lancet reported 100,000 in 2004, not counting Falluja. Now it is something like double this number."

Important: Whether or not you believe that US foreign policy caused/contributed to all of these deaths - the death toll is a valid, conservative estimate of Iraqi deaths in the past 15 years in excess of what would have been expected if there had been peace. PLEASE TELL PEOPLE THIS NUMBER -- maybe it is big enough to shock the American public awake and cause them to realize the true devastation in Iraq:1,000,000

MORE ON The Real Shock & Awe: After 15 Years War, Sanctions 1,000,000 Iraqis Dead

[converted_democrat]

31. K&R.. n/t

[Dr. Jones]

35. HOLEY MOLEY. God help us. Shooting at Civilians?

Have we not learned the lessons of Vietnam? Who knew? Who could have guessed?

After hearing this, we need to pull out NOW.

[mike_c]

39. this surprises you? civilians have been the "target of choice..."

...in Iraq since the 1990s. Over one million Iraqi civilians have been murdered so far. Good god, what will it take to wake up Americans?

[bdamomma]

66. we are conducting our ethic cleansing in Iraq

we have so much blood on our hands from this regime, is this what we want for our children, to live in endless war?????

[Toots]

45. Have you heard of anyone on the other side being in uniform?

If they are not in uniform they are civilians. Every single person that is dying on the Iraqi Insurgency side is a Civilian.. They may be criminals and murderers but they are still Civilians..

[frazzledmom]

56. Did you even read any of the post?

They are not talking about "insurgents" they are talking about innocent civilians. And gee I think if the US was invaded, my family was killed and my home destroyed, I'd be an "insurgent" too...

[me b zola]

41. KnR

[truth2power]

43. K & R. Well, just because...

I know it already has enough votes for "Greatest".

I had an encounter with an Iraq Vet this past week. When I can manage my anger and not type incoherent babblings, I'll post about it. :(

[AwakeAtLast]

44. All I can say is

thank God my soldier is getting out soon.

This is sadness beyond anything I can comprehend. :(

[Olney Blue]

48. My nephew is still over there. I hope he comes home alive...

both physically and emotionally. :scared: I hope your soldier does too.

[AwakeAtLast]

49. Thanks!

:hug: to you!

BTW, I grew up near Olney, ILLINOIS. Didn't know there was another one. No one can say the name around there. How about where you live? Just curious.

:hi:

[Olney Blue]

57. I didn't know there was an Olney, Illinois!

Yes, we have a problem here with pronunciation. We are a TINY little town in Maryland. Its nice and blue,
and I love it.

:hug: back to you!

[sutz12]

50. Another American generation sacrificed...

because our 'President' failed history. :(

[WinkyDink]

52. Bush has failed history in many ways.

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. What a devastating critique of these cynical unwinnable wars of

aggression in pursuit of empire. And what compelling insights. Tony Swindell really grabs hold of your heart with the passionate crescendo of his words, as he lays out the reality of what it is to be a soldier in such a living hell.

[BrklynLiberal]

54. I was VERY disturbed and horrified by the truths told in this article.

I see that it hit others the same way. ;(

[globalglobalglobal]

58. REALITY - DO WE KNOW IT?

there is a time for small changes and there is a time for big changes - there is a time for small responsibilities and there is a time for big responsibilities - without responsibility there is no freedom - tyrants will step in where the people abdicate - unfortunately, the bigger foothold or beachhead tyrants get, the more that the people are pushed out of responsibility, and out of the habit and moral fibre of responsibility - responsibility is ability to respond, fully, properly, adequately, wisely, with full knowledge - and tyrants have been in charge for so long, the people have lost the response-ability - what, me? i am to take responsibility? i am the one who has to respond? it is not my role just to watch the leaders make cockups, murder millions, shake my head, say: how awful, how awful-awful-awful?

i believe i could tell you things are the necessary truths you need - i believe i could warn you - i believe i could point the way - i could be wrong and i could be right - the answers are not in the daily news, the topical events - the answers lie far back from what falls immediately under the eye - the answers require mental discipline to respond to them - to assess them impartially - to test them maturely - to meditate on them profoundly - where is this seriousness? - where is this sobriety? - i see no sign of it - you dont yet think the situation is serious - serious enough to put posts up - to express your feelings - but not to think, not to study, chew well, digest, try to pierce the veil of trivia and topicality to get to the answers - you consider yourself entitled to be offended by such talk - no one may criticise you - no one may say: you should get some ears, you should be listening out for signs of answers - why did the israelites have to suffer the babylonian captivity? - because they thought that they did not need to try to hear their wise people - i mention the israelites, and all you are thinking is: what is this guy? is he religious? - the israelites were people, the same as you - 98.4% chimpanzees, according to science - we have enormous mental handicaps, and we are in great danger - we have been suffering unnecessarily for millenia, because we cannot see, in certain ways - 'small things are easier for people' - i pity you, i sympathise with you, i care for you, i dont want you to suffer - but you will not let me talk to you - i do not ask you to believe me, i only ask you to test what i say, test and test and test it again and again - and use it as long as it seems sound - i can give you something, the fruit of a lifetime of study under the greatest teachers, which may be right, which may be what you absolutely need to survive, to avoid great unnecessary suffering - but you will not allow that anyone other than yourself can have answers - you do not intend to be in debt to anyone, not to a stranger - to be in debt to a stranger who asks nothing except the chance to speak and be heard sincerely, seriously - this is not in your book, on your schedule - things are bad, you say, but they are not so bad we need to consult anyone who has had the luck to study a lifetime under the best teachers - i have been given this luck, and i offer it freely to you, just for the pleasure of doing something for others that costs me nothing - but needing to receive help from someone is not in your game plan - you are not seriously worried yet - but you would be if you were awake - i am very confident that i can wake you, if you can give me your 'utmost ears' - i believe i have left myself open, for many years, to find fault in this idea, and i have not found fault in it

i offer a plan that is a return to the american dream of a land of the free, that costs absolutely nothing except to learn, and teach to two people, something that everyone in the world already agrees with, something that can be happily done even by perfectly selfish people, something that involves no violence or disturbance to society , that has benefits so great i cannot name them without sounding incredible - but to learn takes sincerity, sobriety, seriousness - you have to make up your mind that things are TOO bad - to make up your mind that you have to act in your own defense, that YOU have to make your contribution to your happiness - you have to put aside the facile leaping to conclusions before looking - 9/11, iraq, bush, katrina, corporations: the engine of your society is knocking loudly, but you do not yet think you need to stop and check the engine

i think that you will not respond seriously to the obvious potency of this message - i think you will write, in effect: WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WE DONT NEED YOU. BUG OFF - but i could be wrong

[debbierlus]

59. Kick it to the top!

And, be sure to click on the link to read the entire article. It is worth it!:kick:

[Roland99]

60. This is the true Apocalypse Now 'Redux'

[BrklynLiberal]

61. kick for anyone who missed this over the weekend.

[Theres-a]

64. Thanks.

I rarely have time fri-sun,and it's off greatest now.

[Poiuyt]

63. Who was that general who said that shooting Iraqis was fun?

That kind of sums it up, doesn't it?

[BrklynLiberal]

67. Was it Boykin..or something like that?

The one that was going around preaching in his uniform, saying that "our god is better than their god".

EDIT: Here is an article about him.

It has the potential to be a public relations nightmare buried within a public relations nightmare: one of the major players in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal, it now appears, was the same general almost fired last year for describing the war on terror as a clash between Judeo-Christian values and Satan.

more....

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/146/story_14608_1.html

[Joe Chi Minh]

68. The name certainly suits.

[SoCalDem]

69. The difference? FOREIGN MEDIA, PHONE-CAMS & CAMCORDERS

Back in Viet Nam, there was a film of anonymity, and probably quite a few secrecy pacts. Lots of really nasty going on have probably followed the last participant/witness to the grave already.

The slaughtered locals have nothing to say of what happened that day.. The dreams of the participants still living are all that is left of that time..

NOT SO with Iraq.

The atrocities are barely beneath the surface, and they WILL emerge...only this time there will be better documentation than a faded black & white picture taken by a long ago discarded Polaroid Swinger...