Illegal Aliens or Undocumented Workers or Other.......

[cboy4]

I believe the people who sneak over the border from Mexico to work in the United States are obviously here illegally.

However, I think those who are obsessed with using the words "illegal aliens" over and over sound like Freepers. I just do.

Lou Dobbs, who I agree with most of the time about issues seems to get off using the word "alien" as many times as possible when he's reading a story.

If you don't want to used the words "undocumented workers," for whatever reason you have....

...is there any reason why people can't call them "illegal workers?" That's exactly what they are. Why alien? Does it make you feel better?

Just curious. Vote away!!!

[juajen]

1. I call them cheap labor

I don't think this needs an explanation.

[azurnoir]

2. Just call them-undocumented people

I think the part that sound's Freepesque is illegal and workers is supposed to be reminder that they're taking our jobs.

[ecstatic]

3. What about an illegal visitor who isn't working?

Worker isn't the appropriate term in such a case.

[cboy4]

11. Not a bad point.

I can't imagine there are many here like that (because what would be the point? can't theoretically collect unemployment or welfare....and they obviously aren't taking jobs from American workers which is what has so many Americans so angry) -- but that's a good point.

Let me think about it ;)

[cboy4]

26. I thought about it. "Illegal Immigrant"

Who can argue with that?

[Bushy Being Born]

65. So it's the word alien you have a problem with?

And not the 'illegal' part? Why? It's a juridical term for foreigner. Look it up. I seriously don't get what you're after, but it sounds like you're caught up bad in PC hysteria. Illegal aliens are what they're called, and you taking issue with that is an insignificant problem next to the fact that there needs to be a name for them at all.

[Llewlladdwr]

4. While you're entitled to your opinion...

illegal aliens is what they are.

Perhaps if they dislike the name they could stay home?

[cboy4]

8. "They" probably do dislike the name. But so do I, and I'm a white male

who was born in California.

But I appreciate your ugly right-wing Christian fundamentalist conservative-slanted response concerning my poll.

Of course, I'd never in a million years accuse you of actually being one of those horrible groups of people. :eyes:

[Llewlladdwr]

120. Just out of curiosity...

What exactly was right-wing, Christian fundamentalist or conservative-slanted about my response?

[cboy4]

122. It's very right wing fundamentalist christian conservative trait to not

understand that what you said was nasty.

Not that I'm accusing you of being one of those terrible, inhumane, selfish people.

I'm sure you're swell

[Llewlladdwr]

123. This is just amusing now.

After reading through the entire thread I'm not certain what the point of this little exercise was. If you intended to persuade folks that 'alien' is truly an offensive term I think you've failed since calling people names when they disagree with you rarely wins converts. And that's all I've seen you do in so far as explaining why 'alien' is a bad term to use. You certainly have the right to decide for yourself how to refer to individuals who've entered the country illegally. I don't think disagreeing with you makes me right wing, fundamentalist christian, conservative, bigoted, racist, insensitive, un-compassionate or any of the other lovely adjectives you've been slinging with such abandon. Your opinions do not equal some great and self-evident truth as far as I'm concerned.

[cboy4]

124. Just in fairness to me, I did not call you bigoted or racist.

I said you sound like a right wing christian fundamentalist conservative, because I find those people to be, yes: very insensitive, un-compassionate and other "lovely adjectives."

As for things being amusing, I don't think any of it's funny at all.

This thread is disturbing.....eye-opening at the least.

Some day if you ever have to deal with discrimination, or become part of a minority group, maybe then you'll understand why words matter.

[Llewlladdwr]

125. Fair enough.

Although bigot and racist have been tossed in the mix I can't find a post where you used the exact terms yourself. And I've both dealt with discrimination and been a member of a minority group. I agree with you that words do matter though. That's precisely why I choose to use the term 'illegal alien'. It says exactly what I want to say, that the individual I'm describing in a non-citizen who has entered the country in violation of the law. Frankly I'm not all that concerned if that offends the criminals in question.

[Sterling]

137. I hope it is eye opening

This is one of the most liberal sites on the web and it is clear opinion is not in favor of illegal immigration. It would be wise for the party as well as the groups who support the illegals to take notice that most Americans by far are fed up with this shit.

[Maestro]

141. Then attack the fuckers who hire them!

Not the poor person trying to work himself or herself out of poverty!

[RagingInMiami]

144. You ever hear, "You break it, you buy it"?

Well, we introduced NAFTA to enrich our corporate leaders, forcing 20 percent of Mexicans to lose their land. We created this problem. We need to deal with it.

[cboy4]

146. This thread started out as having nothing to do with whether I think

illegal immigration is right or wrong.

But it had everything to do with how we treat these people as human beings.

What I see is that on one of the "most liberal sites on the web" there are a lot of people who have the same anti-humanity qualities as some of the most conservative sites on the web.

Why else would we see so many posts about not caring about these people and not caring about what we call them?

That's selfish and ugly and it sounds like what comes out of the mouths of every right wing christian fundamentalist conservative person I know.

So yes, you're correct, it is very eye opening.

[PsN2Wind]

5. My Oxford American dictionary

says an alien is "a person who is not a citizen of the country in which he is living". If they are here illegally, then they are "illegal aliens".

[Jayhawk Lib]

6. You are exactly correct..

Why beat around the bush. Call them what they really are and that is illegal alien..

[cboy4]

10. Exactly, fuck compassion. Lets start being like the Republicans!!!

Yay!!! :bounce: :bounce:

[Jayhawk Lib]

14. Compassion????

You break into my house, I am going to shoot your ass because you are in it illegally. You knock on the door, I will let you in and do every thing I can for you.

THE SAME GOES FOR MY COUNTRY!!!

They are illegal aliens because they entered illegally and do not belong here.

It is just as simple as that. Why is hard for people to understand that??

[cboy4]

16. MY COUNTRY! We should re-name it United States of Jayhawk Lib

It's just a shame "ILLEGAL ALIENS SHOULD BE SHOT" doesn't fit on a personalized license plate for your car.

Hopefully the "Lib" part of your screen name doesn't mean liberal.

There's nothing at all liberal about your attitude and your insistence in calling illegal immigrants "aliens."

You know that calling these human beings "aliens" is hurtful and demeaning, yet you insist. What have they done to you?

[Jayhawk Lib]

30. Check the definitions of illegal alien!!!!

I am calling an ace an ace and a spade a spade. Below is the definition of illegal and alien. Illegal alien is the correct term. No need to gloss it over.

If they are not here legally, they are ILLEGAL. If they are here and not a citizen, they are ALIEN.


The word ALIEN from dictionary.com

Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange.

An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.
A person from another and very different family, people, or place.
A person who is not included in a group; an outsider.



The word ILLEGAL from dictionary.com

Prohibited by law.
Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.

n.
An illegal immigrant.

[cboy4]

34. Do you realize what you just pointed out? The definition you've

cited says: "illegal immigrant" NOT "illegal alien"

See???

Therefore, there's no reason why you or anyone can't say illegal immigrant instead of illegal alien.

I will start referring to the dictionary.com definition.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention! lol

[Jayhawk Lib]

45. Immigrant-alien

All the same....It means that """""THEY DO NOT BELONG HERE IN OUR BORDERS"""".....THEY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE. Illegal is the key word...they are law breakers...they are criminals...They are not citizens,,,they have no rights. There is nothing wrong with the work "ALIEN".

It is what they are..ALIENS ...Taking away jobs Americans could be, should be doing. When I put it that way, ALIEN is a pretty nice sounding word.

[cboy4]

50. I see you had to capitalize "alien" as a parting shot

toward me. LOL! :eyes:

But that's fine, it's a free country. You say what you want.

I realize you're isolated in your own little world there in Kansas, surrounded by nothing but white people.

I would just suggest trying to get out a little more. Maybe then you'll understand that "alien" is hardly a "pretty nice sounding word."

And by the way, you should direct your anger toward the greedy employers who hire these illegal workers. No greedy employers ='s no illegal workers.

[Zookeeper]

95. Ummm. I used to live in California...

in fact, not all that far from Roseville. I would tell you that you need to get out a little more. There are plenty of illegal immigrant workers now in Kansas, Iowa, and Minnesota. In fact, a Mexican consulate opened last year in Minneapolis/St. Paul. Trust me, we are a lot more diverse than you think.

Frankly, California was as provincial as anywhere else I've lived (with the exception of San Francisco, if you don't count the native San Franciscans).

[noamnety]

81. "they have no rights"?

Not having proper identification papers isn't supposed to negate basic human rights.

[vogonjiltz]

108. Now I do agree about the alien part,

but you are wrong about thier rights. Constitutional rights are for everyone within these borders. A good example is Mousouai, he is a French national, but was still entitled to a trial.

[High Plains]

129. So, when are you headed to the strawberry fields of California?

[Beausoir]

36. Shooting them? You are no liberal.

Enjoy your stay.

[cboy4]

43. Shooting must be the Christian thing to do

:eyes: :banghead:

[Llewlladdwr]

121. You seem to have a real hard-on for Christians.

NT

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacho]

44. What if they entered 'your house' illegally

Folded your laundry, mowed your lawn, cooked your dinner, and did the dishes?

Your analogy is self centered, histrionic, eliminationist crap and belongs on the Minuteman's comments page

[Jayhawk Lib]

48. I changed my mind...

Bring em on. Lets invite them to come in and take over our country. I guess I had better enroll in night school and learn spanish. Why even have border guards.

I guess I am self centered, histrionic, eliminationist and all other good things you can name. But the most important I am an AMERICAN first and want what is best for our country. Illegal aliens-immigrants or what ever nice name you can give these people is not what is best for Americans.

[tyedyeto]

111. Do you want to see your cost of living increase dramatically?

That is what will happen if all so-called 'illegal' people are forced to leave this country. The cost of almost everything you purchase will go up by leaps and bounds. Will your wages increase to offset those prices?

Many of those who come to this country 'illegally' do so to help those family members back in their home country with dreams that they will be sending them some of their hard-earned money. Do you realize that these people barely make ends meet and oftentimes OWE money to the Corporation they work for when payday comes around? Many are working for nothing after the Corporation takes their cut for housing and other essentials.

[RagingInMiami]

117. No, you're ignorant and xenophobic

They're not going to "take over our country". And they're not going to force Spanish down your throat.
(of course, learning another language can only help better yourself)

All it takes is one generation and their kids will be speaking better English than Spanish. Another generation after that, and the kids will barely understand Spanish.

This is nothing new. And your argument is nothing new. The same talking points were argued since at least the mid-1800s.

[AlphaCentauri]

84. I was going to called it my house but with that deficit .. momma

It's not really my house it's the mortgage company house

[RagingInMiami]

116. Your country is also my country

And these are my guests. And I also pack.

So let the shooting begin.

[mitchtv]

21. and, change the name from DU to Free Republic

if it waks like a duck...
It's just a coincidence that they are Latinos, we only mean the "illegal ones", and the ones who were taken here as children? fuck'm

[mondo joe]

99. What is uncompassionate about using an accurate word?

[cboy4]

103. So you okay with calling someone who's retarded a "retard?"

Seriously, why don't you use some of the common sense you were born with to understand that "accurate" words aren't always compassionate?

[lumberjack_jeff]

107. "Retard" is in no sense an accurate word. n/t

[cboy4]

9. Yea, that's fine, but I feel people who hate illegal immigrants enjoy

using the "A" word because they know it sounds mean.

[kestrel91316]

61. Thank you.

It's not being racist or judgemental to call them "illegal aliens". It's a statement of fact.

[Up2Late]

7. If we must label, how about "exploited co-conspirator" or...

..."Heroic Father" or "Loving Mother" (or ...Son or ...Daughter).

If my Father had risked his life, crossing hundreds of miles of desert, just so that I or my brother or sisters wouldn't go hungry or so that I could have a pair of shoes, or so that I had a chance to not raise my children in poverty, I would just call him my hero.

The only reason my family came to this country legally, in 1940, was because my grand-parents had some money, and my Grand-mother had dual citizenship (French/American). Otherwise, the Nazis would have probably killed them and their 5 year old son (my father) too.

And on the other side, my Irish Grand-father fought for his new country, The United States of America, in the trenches of WWI. I don't know if he was even a citizen yet. He met my Irish Grand-mother in Massachusetts, after he came back from "The Great War." :patriot:

I would gladly trade 10 Immigrants, legal or not, for one of these American born "keep the illegals out" anti-America so-called "Americans."

This debate disgusts me. It's just plan Anti-America. (no, I don't mean American, there is a difference).

America=Immigrants, Period.

BTW, the so-called Americans who are pushing this issue are worst that freepers, this is an issue that the Ultra-Right-wing ReThugs have been pushing on their websites for years, that are so full of Hate speech that, if I gave you a link, I'd be violating the DU rules.

[cboy4]

12. No, No. America=Immigrants if you're not from Latin America

What the hell is wrong with you Up2Late? :sarcasm:

[Bridget Burke]

31. "Cruzando el Rio Bravo" by Texas sculptor Luis Jimenez...

Says it all.



www.extension.iastate.edu/cyfar/art/sculpture.html

My Irish grandparents came "legally" because all they had to do was show up at Ellis Island in good health. I'm told my native-born father was beaten up for being "un-American." I don't remember him but have the flag he wore to his Wake. It's Red, White & Blue.

I also fly the Green, White & Orange.

[fujiyama]

13. I call them both undocumented workers, illegal immigrants, and illegal

residents.

I guess you could just as well call them illegal undocumented alien workers.

But personally I think the word "alien" is a nice way to dehumanize someone. It makes them sound like something to be feared as though they are from another galaxy. It gives way to xenophobia easier. I know "alien" is used to describe any immigrant (green cards are technically called alien resident cards), but I still think it's an odd way to describe other humans.

I use the term illegal immigrants, because they have entered, but entered illegally. I think it's descriptive but still makes them sound human.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

15. cboy

I am an immigrant and I have no objection to my being referred as an 'alien' because that is the legal term for a person who is not a citizen of a particular country. Since I entered the U.S. legally, the correct term would be 'legal alien.' Of course, now I'm a lawful permanent resident of the U.S. (with 'green card'). As an immigration professional, thus, I have no problem with classifying anyone, regardless of nationality or color of their skin, who enters the U.S. unlawfully (which means without inspection by an immigration official at a port of entry) as an 'illegal alien.' There are illegal aliens from Canada, China (brought over in containers), etc., but most, due to geography, are from Latin America.

[cboy4]

23. You're a "lawful, permanent resident" Who's going to call you an

illegal alien?

I'm happy you're here, and I believe all immigrants should follow the rules as you did.

However, It's not going to kill anybody to choose a different adjective than "alien" -- it is a hurtful term, even though it doesn't bother you.

We don't call people "retarded" anymore.....we say "mentally disabled" because it sounds less hurtful and demeaning.

[mitchtv]

37. It's easy to do it legal, unless the EEUU

started an illegal uprising in your country or destroyed its legally elected Govt. See El Salvador, , Guatemala. honduras,Nicaruaga, Chile
or unless they are allied to your dicator Samoza, Stroessner, Pinochet, etc. We got a whole lot of bad Karma on this issue

[cboy4]

42. Oh, I know....tell me about it

[cherokeeprogressive]

168. What would you call me, follically challenged?

Your worries about what we call undocumented residents/foreigners/immigrants are more than a little silly. The word ALIEN does NOT MEAN non-human in a strict sense. Do you understand that?

Do you hesitate in calling a female canine a "bitch" for fear of hurting her feelings?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=alien

Follow the link above to dictionary.com. You'll find that VERY FEW of the definitions found there for "alien" are "dehumanizing".

[Beacho]

17. Scapegoats

as in the GOP and Corporatistas need someone else to blame for their failed economic policies and using 'illegals' 'immigrants' 'them' is an old political dodge as old as the republic(if not older).

[Roxy66]

18. Illegal Immigrants

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. I call them Welcome. Kinda like Emma Lazarus did.

[Bridget Burke]

32. This week's "Ask a Mexican" column....

Explained that the builders of the Statue of Liberty omitted the last line of her poem: "No Mexicans, please."

That column is not online yet, but you might enjoy: www.ocweekly.com/columns/ask-a-mexican/ask-a-mexican/25013/

[genieroze]

20. Illegal Immigrants

[Roxy66]

22. The results so far are very interesting

[Quantess]

24. Why didn't you offer "Illegal Immigrants" as a choice?

Isn't that the term used by the majority of people on D.U.?
But no, that would be too reasonable, wouldn't it.
To me, this thread appears to be bait for you to call people freepers, for your own satisfaction.

[cboy4]

25. I like illegal immigrants also, in fact it's probably more applicable

than illegal workers because as someone else pointed out, not everyone here illegally is working.

However, don't accuse me of calling anyone "Freepers," eye't?

I said using the word "alien" sounds like something a Freeper would say.

Utilize your comprehension skills next time.

[Quantess]

27. Not trying to start an argument,

(though you clearly want one, by saying I don't use comprehension skills), but look at your own post #16.
Utilize your own comprehension skills next time.

[Roxy66]

28. nt

[Saphire]

29. here in San Antonio, they are known as "neighbors"

[Bridget Burke]

33. The same is true in Houston....

Of course, we also have neighbors from Vietnam, China, Nigeria, all of the Indian subcontinent, etc.

I don't know everyone's "legal" status. But I don't really care.

[mitchtv]

38. "Border Brothers" is what my Chicano in laws say

we like it

[Bridget Burke]

40. The Houston Press got into all kinds of trouble....

For their cover of a few weeks ago. This week's Letters section features much xenophobic frothing of the mouth. www.houstonpress.com/Issues/2006-05-04/news/letters.html

The offensive cover art? The slogan "This land is Mi Tierra" appeared below an American flag--with Red, White & Green stripes.

T-shirts on sale here: www.cafepress.com/houstonpress

[Beausoir]

35. Freepers LOVE calling them "aliens". They think it's clever. Wink-wink.

The instant I hear someone using that disgusting term, I immediately know they are stupid sheeple and Rush Limbaugh followers. There is no other explanation for it.

[goodhue]

39. Undocumented residents

They don't all work. Feds and Census use term undocumented residents.

See
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/publicaffairs/summaries/undocres.htm
"The INS estimates of undocumented residents refer to the foreign-born population that resides in the United States in unlawful status. In general, the definition of the undocumented resident population corresponds to the U.S. Census definition of usual residence (where a person spends more nights during a year than any other place) and the United Nations definition of immigrants (residents in a country for more than one year)."

[goodhue]

41. And not all undocumented residents have committed criminal offense

Some have legal status which expires, while others enter country illegally. The former is a civil offense, the later criminal.

I really have no idea what it means to call someone "illegal." Generally folks who commit crimes are not "illegal", it is the act which is illegal. Pretty basic concept of criminal law. As for violation of civil offenses, refering to person as illegal is even more absurd. The person who violates civil code is not illegal although they may have broken the "law."

Human beings are not illegal per se.

[Homer Wells]

46. People with Hope for Better Times

The sort of people who made this country great, downtrodden people looking for a better life and a chance to realize their own personal American Dream.

[Roxy66]

49. Bump

[Zookeeper]

51. Ilegal workers, Ilegal immigrants or "citizens of another country..

living or working here illegally."

[donheld]

52. 21st Century slaves

That's what they are.

[Evoman]

53. People who didn't have the fortune

of having their parents fuck and squeeze them out onto "OUR" piece of land.

[Zookeeper]

91. Considering you live in Canada...

do you even have a dog in this fight?

[RagingInMiami]

54. I call them "Americans"

And I call all 55 of you who voted for "aliens", ignorant, xenophobic and closest racists (back it up in the thread, you fucking cowards).

You guys are no different from the people who were against civil rights in the 1960s. Segregationists. Do you still use the word "nigger"? I'm sure you do. You just won't admit on DU.

And you fail to see that this immigration issue is a pure result of NAFTA. In other words, the U.S. brought this upon themselves. It's time to deal with reality because it's not going away.

And guess what? While your young people are sitting home playing Playstation, oblivious to the political world around them, the Latino youth is marching in the streets in the name of democracy.

Yes, that's what democracy looks like.

They speak English. They speak Spanish. And they are eligible to vote.

Soon the word "Alien" will be obsolete, but you will still be calling them "colored" or "negro". You will never get it. Sad.

Un dia ustedes van a comer su palabras

[Starbucks Anarchist]

56. "Alien" is a legal term.

An alien is an unnaturalized individual who lives in a foreign country, regardless of ethnicity.

Legal aliens went through the proper procedures to enter the country, while illegal aliens didn't. What's the problem here?

[cboy4]

58. I find it fascinating that people keep throwing out "it's a legal term"

and comments such as nobody can possibly know what "the problem" is.

Alien sounds hurtful which is why so many people use it.

It's not like it's because it's a legal term and we're all lawyers trying to draft legal documents.

Who wants to be called an alien? I'm white and was born in the U.S. and I wouldn't want to be called an alien, even if it meant a good thing.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

70. See post #69.

[cboy4]

74. I read your post. However, it doesn't address my point which is that

the term illegal alien is demeaning.

I'm not surprised to hear Republicans use it.

But I find it disturbing so many liberals are jumping on the GOP bandwagon with their insistence on using that word.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. Is the term "legal alien" demeaning?

[cboy4]

82. Yes. The word "alien" in my opinion is demeaning. Obviously

not nearly as demeaning as Illegal Alien, but legal alien sounds like you're describing a second class group of citizens.

Why do you think anyone needs to say "legal alien?"

How bout "Immigrant?"[/b} It's less wordy, it's accurate and it sounds respectful....

[Starbucks Anarchist]

83. But isn't "immigrant" disrespectful to those who came legally?

People who come here legally eventually become naturalized citizens -- "legal alien" is a temporary status.

Barring amnesty, someone who comes here illegally will be stuck with that status.

[cboy4]

86. Lets for argument's sake say both the words "immigrant" AND

"alien" are disrespectful.....

I will bet my jet black 2006 Porche 911 Turbo (I don't really have a Porsche) that an overwhelming......and I mean, overwhelming number of people would prefer to be referred to as immigrants and not aliens. Even legal aliens.

Come on Starbucks Anarchist....alien is a negative connotation in this country.

My only point is there are people who insist on using the word alien to be unkind. The word just sounds horrible, regardless of whether you throw the word "legal" before it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

87. If you put it THAT way, fair enough.

But the people who use "alien" just to be unkind probably use the word "immigrant" in an unkind way, too.

The original legal intent of the words have been somewhat bastardized by them, but it still doesn't remove the original objective legal intent of the words.

[cboy4]

88. Fair enough

Geez, you wore me out ;)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

89. I'm funny that way.

:D

[RagingInMiami]

59. It may be legal but it's offensive

What's the problem there?

[Bushy Being Born]

66. Um, no it's not?

You don't decide what's offensive. And in any case, nobody has a right not to be offended.

[RagingInMiami]

67. I don't decide what it's offensive to me?

Then who the fuck does?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

69. But it's not only aimed at people here illegally.

My parents (legal immigrants) and most of my family members in this country are, or were at some point, "legal aliens." They didn't find it offensive, and neither did I.

In the legal sense, it's not directed towards a particular ethnicity, but to anybody who is here and not yet naturalized.

I remember my mother showing me her "legal alien" card years ago. We had a good laugh about it -- I guess that's just us.

[RagingInMiami]

71. I've never heard anybody refer to legal immigrants as aliens

[Starbucks Anarchist]

73. It's based on the assumption legal aliens eventually become naturalized.

An illegal alien (generally) cannot become naturalized.

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. Make it fifty-six

Every democrat which feels that illicitly giving away a working american's livelihood to foreigners is an appropriate act of charity should do some serious contemplation on what it means to be a democrat - or frankly, what it means to be an american. The 23% of americans who have lost earning power because of unenforced immigration laws deserve our compassion to a greater degree than the non-americans that took advantage of that lax enforcement.

"illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" are essentially synonymous, and both appropriate, definitionally accurate and descriptive.

"undocumented worker" is as misleading as "undocumented banking" is when used to describe bank robbing.

I think we should stop doing corporate america's bidding.

[cboy4]

114. Undocumented bankingwhat?

Terrible analogy.

I think everyone understands what an ILLEGAL WORKER is.

I think you can use that term, but you're too hysterical that Pedro is picking lettuce in Imperial County, Calif. in the 113 degree sun.

Call him an illegal alien if you seriously get off on it. I'm sure you can find a passage in the bible that supports your cause. :eyes:

[Bushy Being Born]

55. I call a spade a spade

And I call an illegal alien an illegal alien.

[cboy4]

57. ANGRY man from Tennessee. Nice!

[Bushy Being Born]

63. Angry? What ever gave you that impression?

Guess I'll have to stock up on some smilies.

[RagingInMiami]

60. And I call an asshole an asshole

[Bushy Being Born]

62. That's nice to know, but I don't see how your telling me is beneficial to

this discussion. Unless you were insinuating something, in which case I take you to mean that 67% of all DUers are assholes. Although that may very well be the case, I'd like you to provide some statistical data to back that assertion up before I give you any more of my time.

[cboy4]

64. You lucky guy.....I just love Miami!!

It's just too bad there are so many illegal aliens there. :eyes:

What the F is wrong with people? I thought liberals were supposed to be understanding and compassionate.

[Zookeeper]

90. They also can be logical and rational...

and care about fairness. (Which isn't the same thing as sentiment.)

[acmavm]

68. If you intend to start a flamebait thread, I'll eat my hat. You ask people

a question and when the answer, you hurl accusations and insults. Why do people like you do that?

[cboy4]

75. Because there are people like you who don't get it. That's why.

The purpose of this site is to debate and trade ideas.....not to be passive.

If you dislike this thread or disapprove of my disgust that people have to use crappy, hateful words to describe other people........nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to respond, is there?

[acmavm]

76. Oh I get it. I understand perfectly. You're one of those people who ask

for an opinion and then get miffed and start hurling insults when the don't think exactly like you do. For what, semantics? Or were you feeling the need for some attention?

Illegal alien, so you say, is racist terminology. You're either too naive for words, or you just don't understand the meaning of the word racist.

And as for being told not to click on your thread, how about you just don't post. That'll solve things too, and is about as reasonable.

[cboy4]

79. Why don't you look in the mirror and see who's the one getting

"miffed" and "hurling insults?"

That would be you.

I never said the word "alien" is "racist"

I believe the word is mean and vicious and I'm hugely disappointed that liberals are in my opinion buying into Republican propaganda.

I'm hardly the only person at DU who believes this.

You know as well as I do that you can call people who sneak across the border and work here against United States law, "illegal workers."

But there's a reason why some people insist on saying "alien."

At any rate, might as well get used to me bitching about this because this is a forum of ideas and I'm not going to stop.

If you don't like it, tough. Skip my posts.

[guinivere]

72. I just call them people.

If they must have a "label" then, undocumented people.

[Zookeeper]

94. Undocumented "people' sounds worse than illegal aliens..

Although I don't use the term illegal aliens because it sends people into hysterics, even though it is an accurate term used to describe "foreigners," "undocumented people" sounds like they aren't even officially human beings. (Although I'm sure you don't mean it that way, Guinivere.)

[guinivere]

101. No, I didn't mean it that way.

I don't like smacking a "label" on people. Everyone is just trying to make their way as best they can. I try to relate to people without the pigeonhole tag.

[tyedyeto]

112. Human beings...

who are seekong a better life.

[readmoreoften]

78. undocumented immigrants

why are these exploited people the only ones whose WHOLE BEING is illegal. Everyday of its existence Walmart commits some kind of crime (unionbusting, discrimination) but we don't call the Walton family "illegals".

When my homosexuality was a crime in Texas (pre-2003), no one called me an "illegal".
An when I overstay my visa in Spain after Bushco starts putting us all in prison camps, I really hope they don't think of me as an "illegal".

[cboy4]

80. I like your style. Interesting post!

:)

[AlphaCentauri]

85. I call them Humans

They are nothing less o nothing more than I am
They are Humans like me

[entanglement]

92. You forgot

'brown skinned undesirables' which would have gotten a large number of votes, given the xenophobia in these parts.

[cboy4]

93. Yea, I didn't put that down as a choice because I was afraid to

think about just how many people would have voted for it. :eyes:

[Zookeeper]

96. B.S.

You wouldn't have had any DUers vote for that.

Playing the race card is getting really old, especially considering that illegal workers are largely taking jobs away from African-Americans. All of the pro-illegal Hispanic immigrant advocates on DU don't give a crap about African-Americans, Native Americans, legal immigrants or poor white Americans from chronically economically depressed areas of the country. Despite what they claim, there is no fairness involved in their agenda.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

97. I think you nailed it.

The racism canard may apply at Free Republic, but not here.

Now if the illegal immigrants were actually legal, they wouldn't be undercutting American wages. And if that were the case and people were complaining about "scary brown people" taking their jobs, THAT would be racism.

[cboy4]

102. Are you kidding? There is most certainly some race/orientation card play

around here.

I too am opposed to illegal workers taking away jobs from Americans if that's what's happening in certain circumstances.

But I am sick and tired of all of the nasty little remarks regarding this issue, which include the deliberate use of the word "alien."

There's no reason to call someone who crosses the boarder illegally an "illegal alien" when you can call them an "illegal worker" or "illegal immigrant."

Period.

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. Good point.

Here in the northwest, illegal immigration is impacting the earning power of native americans to a greater degree than most other groups.

[tyedyeto]

113. I've read so many posts on this subject and feel many DUers ...

do feel that way. So sad that anyone who sees themself as a progressive can feel that way. They may not say 'brown-skinned' but they do not want any of these human beings in this country.

[mondo joe]

98. I use "illegal immigrants". I find it very descriptive and accurate.

"Alien" works as well.

I don't know why "worker" is preferable -- they're illegally in the US, moreso than illegally working.

[doc03]

100. I have called them illegal immigrants in the past

but after studying it over I believe alien is a better description. The word immigrant confuses them with the millions of other people that came to this country legally. Alien I believe is a more appropriate description, dictionary says "owing allegiance to another country" and an "unnaturalized resident of a country". Really I couldn't care less as long as the word illegal proceeds it.

[cboy4]

104. You know, it really is okay to follow your heart concerning issues

instead of running to the dictionary or the bible and looking everything up.

A book doesn't have a mind and human compassion.

You do.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

105. Criminal Immigrant

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. Not Sure I Quite Understand The Problem

They technically are illegal aliens, and the use of the word alien is perfectly find (as per the actual definition).

The other terms are ok too, but I think those that take offense to the word alien just simply don't know the meaning of the word. It isn't just for space people, ya know.

[cboy4]

115. I'm gunna take a wild guess and guess that you're not Hispanic.

Do you think maybe that could be why you think calling someone an alien is "perfectly fine?"

I am a white boy and I can tell you I would object to be called an alien.

That's why I understand why so many Latinos hate it. Who wouldn't?

[mondo joe]

118. Why would you object? What do you think ALIEN means?

Why would you object to being called a word if it accurately describes you?

[cboy4]

119. You're going to tell me that you would rather be called an illegal

alien than an illegal immigrant or illegal worker?

Perhaps you haven't had to deal with a lot of discrimination in your life.

But for those who have, we are a little more sensitive about what we're called and there's not one reason on earth why you shouldn't be able to comprehend that.

Try to be nice mondo joe. You might like it.

[mondo joe]

126. I won't tell you I'd RATHER be called that - I will tell you I wouldn't

care which I was called. Of course I know what ALIEN means, so I have no objection.

What is objectionable about alien? Why do you think it's a slur?

You can't seem to answer that.

[cboy4]

127. The word is used ONLY in a negative fashion. Never positively.

Use your head.

As I told someone else, it's okay to follow your heart instead of always running to the dictionary and bible to look up words.

It's irrelevant what the word "alien" truly means.

That's because "alien" a negative connotation.

Latino people hate being called aliens. So would I.

[Doctor Venmkan]

132. Well...boo hoo!

If someone who sneaks into this country illegally REALLY has his "feelings hurt" by being called an illegal alien...

Maybe he should go through the process of immigrating here LEGALLY!

None of them care for our laws (if they break one why should they obey others?)...many don't care for our culture...so why should we care about "offending" them?

:nopity:

[cboy4]

134. You're making generalizations about people

you know absofuckinlutely nothing about.

"Many" don't care for our culture? And how do you know that?

Oh, yea, you don't, do you?

You might want to put down the video games for awhile and educate yourself.

You sound very unintelligent.

[Doctor Venmkan]

136. You're right...

I don't KNOW that illegals don't care for our culture. It just seemed to be 'strongly inferred' by the many Mexican flags and the signs like 'go back to Europe, HONKY!' seen at protests against border security (and that last sign was from a local protest).

I don't think that all of those people developed a great love for America overnight, and thus started flying the red, white, and blue for the more recent 'Day Without an Immigrant.' They just heard all the bad press from flying the Mexican flag from before.

And don't get me started on wackos like http://www.aztlan.net/ or http://www.mexica-movement.org/ENTERHERETEXTONLY.htm

In the town I work at, doctors and pharmacists have the unenviable tasks of trying to treat immigrant patients that barely know a WORD of English! For crying out loud, if you want to function in a society, you need to at LEAST be able to speak the language!

If illegal aliens are hurt by being called that, I wonder if Americans who visit foreign lands and b!tch about not having everything written in English are hurt by what the locals call them?

So, sorry if I come across as 'mean.' In the grand scheme of things, where jobs are being taken, and money is being made by American companies that ignore American law, and LEGAL immigrants are getting screwed by these line-jumpers...

...I don't care if the feelings of an illegal alien OR an undocumented worker are hurt!

[mondo joe]

139. Well you're wrong again.

Sting even penned a song about being a legal alien.

There is nothing negative about the word "alien".

But when you say the meaning of the word is irrelevant, you pretty much disprove your own argument.

[cboy4]

147. I notice you can't stay away from my thread. LOL

It must mean you're having trouble with your conscious?

Having trouble sleeping?

I understand it takes awhile for some people to come to their senses. ;)

[mondo joe]

148. "Conscious"?

I guess "alien" isn't the only definition you don't understand.

As to your thread, I do oppose deceit, so I keep coming back- it's one reason why I'm a democrat.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

143. I Really Could Care Less About Your Offense To It.

It is not a slanderous word and it's definition is not a slang one. That's simply what the word means. Choosing to take offense to it is your choice. But the word was never created as a derogatory one and its definition is fine.

You have a problem with it? Not my problem.

(and for the record, do you not see the utter hypocrisy and foolishness in claiming I have no right say it's ok cause I'm white, while claiming you do have the right to speak for hispanics though you as well, are white? :rofl: )

[cboy4]

145. Wow, straight out of the Republican National Committee's prejudice

manual.

That's impressive.

You call hispanic people all of the ugly names you want. It's a free country.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

156. Do You Even Read The Replies, Or Consider The Points They're Trying To

make at all?

It seems like you would respond with the same narrow minded replies no matter what the post above it said.

Be as offended as you want, but you haven't addressed any of the logical issues brought forth to you. Feel free to keep replying with bitter empty rhetoric that doesn't consider the issues raised as much as you want, but it kind of makes for realllllly unproductive conversation, with all due respect.

That's about the end of this one for me. This discussion is a waste of time.

[cboy4]

157. Why is to so hard for you to understand my point?

Here it is:

Yes, illegal alien is the correct term to describe these people if you want to get technical. Fine.

I'm only saying that as a liberal democrat, I can think of a nicer, more respectful way of describing these people....Illegal immigrants.

The people working in the fields of my state are not serial killers and they're not suicide bombers you know.

By being stubborn and saying, oh, they're aliens. And for some reasons people have to capitalize it ALIENS ALIENS....it sounds very Republican-esk.

So there you go. You call them what you want.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

158. "Yes, illegal alien is the correct term to describe these people if you

want to get technical. Fine."

Fair enough then.

[cboy4]

160. Alright, you pulled a quote that you wanted to see. That's sort of

a drive by response after I took the time to analyze your point and concede that "alien" is technically a correct term.

But in fairness to me, you're doing what you accused me of doing, which was not addressing any of your points specifically.

You argue that they're illegal aliens. I said, technically they are.

But I also said there are secondary words (illegal workers/immigrants) that can be used to show a little more compassion and humanity.

You say I'm wrong because:

(you respond specifically to this point only, otherwise you don't win any prizes)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

163. "I took the time to analyze your point and concede that alien

is technically a correct term."

Exactly.

Again, fair enough LOL

[cboy4]

161. Thanks for not answering my question. Didn't think you would.

:hide:

[KAT119]

128. I call them home crashers lured by criminal abusive employers.

[Greyhound]

130. Illegal aliens is accurate and words have meaning,

as I'm sure you're aware.

[cboy4]

131. They also hurt people when not used sensibly and

appropriately as I'm sure you're aware.

[Greyhound]

133. Irrelevant. If I chose to be offended by the label "middle aged white man"

that is my problem, it is, nonetheless, an accurate description and is appropriate.

[cboy4]

135. Yea, middle aged white man is so offensive versus

illgal alien :eyes:

BTW, maybe if you were a middle aged Latino man, you would be more sensitive to the term.

[Greyhound]

138. By choosing to be insulted, you choose to surrender your power. n/t

[mondo joe]

140. Used to describe illegal aliens it is quite sensible.

Used to describe someone inaccurately would not be sensible.

Use your head. :-)

[Bridget Burke]

152. "Words have meaning"....

Is that like "actions have consequences"?

Yes, I know what you mean.

[Maestro]

142. Undocumented and see

post #141.

[Ron Mexico]

149. The Freetard "obsession" with using "illegal aliens,"

if there is one, is probably based on the recent and ridiculous allegation that "illegal aliens" is a racist term. I also believe there is a Freetard obsession with avoiding the term "undocumented workers," which they consider laughably PC and misleading.

It makes me cringe to say this, but I agree with the Freetards on both counts.

[cboy4]

150. Tell me about these "recent allegation(s)" that saying illegal aliens

is a racist term?

I certainly have not used the "R" word to describe people who say "illegal aliens"

I use the "I" word (insensitive). That's all.

I'm glad you had the sense to "cringe" when you typed that. :eyes:

[Ron Mexico]

155. Here's a link...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-13%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=illegal+alien+racial+slur&btnG=Search

...of a Google News search under the words "illegal alien racial slur." One source is some conservative news publication and another is Fox News, but I'm sure if you look long enough or tweak the search terms enough, you'll find a source you can believe. I hear this "racism" charge constantly here in D.C. and across the Potomac in Alexandria.

[cboy4]

159. I'm supposed to believe anything a Dodger fan says?

I might as well turn on Fox News! ;)

In all seriousness, there are going to be people who cry racism about any issue.

But I don't think you should allow a small percentage to persuade you to join the freepers.

That raises all sorts of red flags, don't you think?

It's alright to allow your heart and your conscious to lead you regarding issues of humanity.

[Bridget Burke]

151. Not "illegal aliens"--the correct phrase is "ILLEGAL aliens"

Upper Case is mandatory!

You'll lose your Freetard card if you break the rules.

[cboy4]

153. Now that was funny!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ron Mexico]

154. Christ, you're right.

I am truly contrite. Thank you for this. :)

[cboy4]

162. Can someone unfreep my poll??

:)

[Doctor Venmkan]

164. Sorry jack, no "freepers" here....

Just a majority of DUers who say it like it is! ;)

[laheina]

165. That is very much debatable.

Enjoy your stay! :hi:

[bridgit]

167. welcome to du, Doctor Venmkan...

:-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

166. I call them 'human beings'

[LeftofU]

169. exploited human beings ....

the topsoil of capitalism.

[proud2BlibKansan]

170. yes, thank you for that addition

It is much more accurate.