I'm coming out of my shell.

[MelissaB]

I will not longer sit by while DUers who contribute to this place are attacked. We've lost too many good people lately, and evidently I've been wrong. I'm not someone who usually jumps into a flame war, but I will post in one now. I don't plan on flaming, but I will question and not let another good DUer drop silently.

I'm usually a quiet, shy person. I've racked up most of my post count doing the "daily thread" in ER, but enough is enough.

If you're scratching your head wondering what I'm talking about, start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1056736

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1073553

and add to the one with LiveOakTX.

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. A-fricking-men

I'm completely fed up with this crap, and disgusted that no one seems to notice what's going on here.

Divide and conquer...now who would want to do that, I wonder? Allies? Not bloody likely.

[MelissaB]

4. I've had enough!

It has taken a lot to push me to this point, but I'm there.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. Those That Truly Contribute To DU Are Patriots In Every Sense Of The Word

and have my daily thanks and graciousness for their efforts. There is a lot of petty flaming and bickering constantly on DU, and those impulse posts are part of what make GD so fast paced. But the meat of GD, the very substance where we get our facts everyday that we could never get from the MSM, and all the insight, accurate philosophies, fact checking and logical theories, is what makes DU the most valuable site on all the web.

To all those that provide their investigative services and intellectual insight, I thank you with all my heart.

[annabanana]

3. yupyup!. . . . . . . .eom

[MelissaB]

5. I thank them and will support them with my posts now.

I'm sorry I haven't in the past.

[mdmc]

11. yeah... thanks for all the investigative work and insight

I am down with keeping this place civil. peace operationmindcrime. peace, all...

[jsamuel]

6. Anyone who tells anyone else what to believe or not believe is wrong

Stop trying to convert on DU! If we could all just do that, there wouldn't be a problem. Everyone stop the circular firing squad. No one is exempt from this.

[Sammy Pepys]

7. Amen

We must have a mole infestation or something. This whole change in attitude seems to have happened overnight.

[SeattleGirl]

8. We absolutely need to stand up for each other.

I'm glad to hear about your change of heart, Melissa. And you're right, you don't have to flame to do that, whether it's standing up for yourself, or for someone else. What I do, especially if someone does a "drive-by" insult or snark, is address it and ask that person why they said what they did, or what their point is, or if they have evidence or facts to back up what they are saying. I do not do it in a rude way; there's no point in that, and it won't get me anywhere at all. And I don't "call them out" in a way that is against the DU rules, but I do call them on what they are saying. Sometimes, it works, and other times, it doesn't. I'm happy to say that it's worked more often than not, and I've ended up having some very good conversations with people because of it. We may still end up disagreeing with each other, but it's done with respect for each other as people.

I have been in situations on DU where I was being attacked personally, and there are other DUers who will stand up for me, and I have done the same for them, and for other DUers.

I don't think we have to agree with each other 100% of the time. (Hell, if we did, we'd better go post on FreeRepublic.) But to attack others because we don't agree with their opinions (even when -- and especialy when -- those opinions are backed up by facts) is not the way to go.

[bleever]

9. I'm with you.

:thumbsup:

Fifth recommendation.

[HereSince1628]

10. Be careful of the first hours without a shell while you harden up

:)

[Alamom]

12. I've noticed and I agree completely. eom

[TexasLawyer]

13. Me too

I hardly ever hit the alert button, but I've hit it twice today because some smart mouths went over the line-- and it was not to me that they smarted off. (e.g., telling Will Pitt that if he didn't like the heat he should stay out of the kitchen). In both cases I was just a third party.

Bystanders can and should be vigilant for people acting like jerks. Don't call them on it, 'cause that is what the jerks want. Just report to the mods. Then mods-- hopefully you can do something about it.

Did it ever dawn on anyone that some of the disruptive parties might be on RW payrolls? If RW-ers can't shut down the internet, they can sure do a great job of fomenting discord and staying barely legal within DU rules.

I've been flamed recently myself, and it hurts. It makes you question why you take the time and effort to post anything at all. But I'm not giving up.

[nicknameless]

14. Thank you!

I saw that LiveOakTX was slammed for her generosity in providing a valuable, free service.

I didn't know that Will Pitt was being flamed as well.
But I did see flames over Raw Story.

Why are we attacking our own? Did Raw Story got something wrong? They bust their butts and take personal risks to get make the truth available. Have you heard what * wants to do to journalists? How often does MSM get it wrong?

Could it be that there moles among us?

[TexasLawyer]

15. moles--

precisely my thought.

[mom cat]

17. Moles and trolls and peoples on the doles.

That is certainly part of the problem, but not all of it. Thanks Melissa B for bringing this up for discussion. We have lost some good members who refused to submit to the kind of treatment they have gotten here. I have had to hit the "alert" button numerous times and feel like there are many more times that I could have done so.
We all need to take responsibility for keeping this site civilized (or returning it to civility) and for dousing flames when we see them being thrown by hitting the alert button.

[Random_Australian]

25. Ugh! Not moles for objecting to rawstory.

Ugh!

We lost a good one to the flaming arising from even taking offense.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=263x17854

This is not good.

[nicknameless]

29. The atheist article was just one blow-hard’s opinion piece.

I disagreed with it, but it was just one article. It's hard to understand why any DUer would decide to leave over it.
It's also hard to imagine that the vast majority at DU wouldn't be in agreement with toddaa.

Larisa was raked over the coals for that story, for which she was not responsible.
She’s an investigative journalist, which takes unbelievable courage these days.
Other stories of hers, which were recently proven to be true, were also flamed on.

We need to be standing up for each other now, not pulling the usual circular firing squad routine.

Moles would love nothing more than to have progressives turn on each other.

[TahitiNut]

16. It's an honored tradition.

:evilgrin:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

18. I have to say, I've alerted on many lately and the standards seemed to

have diminished.

I've done a simple search, seen the pattern and alerted, only to watch the pattern continue.

Eventually, the tombstone appears, but it's at a cost to the DU community.

I wonder if the mods are just overwhelmed? MKJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. BTW, I don't believe it's a time honored tradition to lose our best &

brightest because they are relentlessly attacked for their contributions. MKJ

[helderheid]

20. absofuckinglutely. Divided we fall. C'mon DU.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

21. GOP strategy is to plant shills on various discussion boards

They are on my son's computer board and my hubby's car board.

These GOP shills use similar buzz words, strategies, and are very hard to take. I've heard the same shills on my local AAR station.

Intelligent discourse is fine, but these shills manage to insult & disrupt.

There seems to be large number of them on DU lately, & like I say, they're very hard to take.

[chookie]

22. Thanks

It's been a tough time for those of us who have nuanced opinions. It seems that the troublemakers don't even bother to read your post, but reflexively launch ridiculous and irrelevant accusatory vitriol.

Authoritarianism is not the sole property of the right wing -- it also has its adherents on the left. These people think that debate consists of getting in somebody's face and screaming "SHUT UP F*****!" -- and consider themselves the moral equivalent of Patrick Henry or Martin Luther King for doing so. A lot of career authoritarians left the Left because the opportunities for nastiness were far more abundant on the right wing, but some remain.

Not all trolls are right wing -- left wing extremists also strive to silence thoughtful debate. Power over others.

I think they are initially attracted to DU because it is such a well-designed forum -- so much more sophisticated and large than most of the alternatives -- but they cannot tolerate opinion outside their narrow assumptions and ideology and try to take over.

I've made liberal use of the valuable Ignore and Hide Threads features -- not because I am intolerant of opinions and philosophies different than my own -- in fact one of the reasons I come here is because I find the range of views fascinating -- but I am sick of the thoughtless arrogant j'accuse baloney.

I'm not going to leave this community because it has been lately populated by creeps, because there is still a great deal of intelligent discussion available here.

I'm with you on this and applaud your stand, MelissaB. :hi:

[Cleita]

23. Nice.

I'm shy too, but I don't mind fighting a bit if something really is unjust to me.

[rman]

24. Good. But

i figured most here - certainly the old timers - would be used to the presence of disruptors, shills, provocateurs etc. An increase in their numbers on DU means we are more of a threat to the RW. Anyone leaving DU because of them is a victory to them.

[Random_Australian]

26. Aye. I've seen a few flamewars of late. Waded into Rawstory too.

If anyone does not get why the atheists were so angry, feel free to PM me.

[Festivito]

27. I keep missing the attacks. All I see are the post-attack vent posts.

Like the links shown here.
Like the links within that posting.

These things are wasting as much time as atheist-theist posts.

Oh, well.

Hoping Will Pitt uses his talents as he feels best.
DU is just one avenue to take back our country.

[Maine-ah]

28. I'm with ya MelissaB

K&N'd