My thoughts (rant) regarding Gloria Allred and DU...

[bliss_eternal]

Forgive me all--I've posted this in an another area of DU, but since I get into some issues of women I thought I should cross post it here.

I'm kind of going through a crisis of wondering what the hell I'm doing on these boards. It just feels counterproductive at times. I'm also growing tired of the feeling that I as a woman am valued for my votes, but little else--to the party, to the board, etc.

Anyway--my rant/thoughts...
What I find troubling...

In the Gloria Allred threads, those that I've seen state they were glad to see Allred do this--not one has stated they believe there is a basis for Allred to seek monetary (or other) damages of any kind. Of all the things I've read, and I read most of them--people seemed to just be genuinely pleased that perhaps she was doing this to set a precedent--send a statement of "what was said can NOT be said by a celebrity to anyone, particularly not a person of color."

This is coming on the heels of the Mel Gibson incident. Perhaps Ms. Allred was sickened by the fact that Gibson chose to "persecute" a Jewish cop with his slurs against him and all Jews. Maybe Ms. Allred saw the Richards incident and thought, "hmmmm...racist celebs need some sort of accountability." I'm not a mind reader, so of course I'm just "supposing" here. lol. But I don't think it's a vast stretch, considering the timing of these incidents.

What is disturbing to me is the way so many on DU have crawled out from under their rocks to shout down anyone that dare say "why not?" As if by those of us that said, "why shouldn't she do this" are saying we want to see money changed hands, Richards jailed, etc., etc. There's a great deal of assuming going on. No one said or implied any of that.

I'm well aware of the tenets of free speech. I really don't need overzealous DU'ers shouting me down and dog piling me as if I need law lessons. If people like Gloria Allred didn't stand up and do what hasn't been done before, where would women or the women's movement be? If people like her didn't do that which wasn't done before--would blacks have ever been freed from slavery, given the right to vote, given the right to education in schools with whites, etc., etc.? I dare say...no. :think:

I find it beyond disturbing that too many in those threads even dared to consider any of what I just said above. Instead, they continued to argue "for" the rights of "racism." When do we as progressives say yes, this is a "right", it's a law on the books--but it's wrong, so let's see how far we can test that limit? Set new precedents, etc.?

While he has a right to speak and say what he likes in the context of his act, you will never get me to say he has the right to yell racial slurs because he was pissed off at an audience member. I'm sorry but I don't and refuse to see that as a tenet of free speech. A personal insult is NOT an opinion and I will NEVER argue FOR that.

The people that so valiantly defended the rights of free speech and the bill of rights to me are part of the problem. Yes, I know the rules, thank you very much. As the women before me, knew the rules PRIOR TO women obtaining the right to vote...BEFORE blacks could marry whoever the hell they wanted to...BEFORE blacks could sit anywhere they wanted to on the bus.

Telling me the rules and using them as a weapon against MY opinion is bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

There are very few true progressives on this board, in my opinion. They are sheep, completely willing to go along with the status quo, and defend it when anyone dare say that maybe it's time that status quo was challenged or amended. How dare they shout people down with laws on the books. Fuck that. We all know the laws on the books didn't take women, people of color, gays, jews, the disabled, etc. into consideration to begin with. The people that wrote the "laws on the books" were old, white men. Yes--they speak for me. :eyes:

Rosa Parks was a true progressive. The "law" said she HAD to sit in the back and she did not. Michael "racist piece of shit" Richards right to say whatever he wants is "law." Ask me if I give a shit?

If Gloria chooses to challenge that--she is a true progressive in my eyes. People that can't see that, and can't see that shouting down the few to say,"maybe" is not a part of any definition of progress. How do we get to progress, if we don't challenge what "is"?

I'm tiring of this board. Perhaps I need to spread my wings beyond it, the quote does say that well behaved women don't change history--does it not? Gloria Allred is not a "well-behaved woman" and because of it, she helps to change history. Maybe I should take my radical ideas, my "bad behavior" beyond this board and see what I can do. All I do on DU is get called names, flamed incessantly, locked threads and deleted posts. :( :cry::mad:

:rant:

[bliss_eternal]

1. For reference...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2785820

[Warpy]

2. This is a tough one, all right, but I don't think a lawsuit is the

right thing to do. Getting publicity and complaints to club management were the right ways to go and both of those have been done. His career is now in the toilet and he'll have an uphill battle to resurrect any part of it. I do hope he's sobered up enough to consider his options while he still has money in the bank as the only people who will want him for standup gigs are the Klaverns across the country.

We do still have the right to speak freely in this country, no matter how many toads hop out of our mouths when we do. This lawsuit will fail completely, as it should. Nobody has the right to go through life unoffended, something we keep trying to remind fundy Christians of.

Allred needs to pick her fights a little more carefully.

[bliss_eternal]

3. Your response disappoints me...

...and you miss my point. So nice to have the point of "free speech" reiterated to me in a forum that I thought might be more supportive of the OTHER points I made. Apparently my monologue above didn't make it clear how many times this point has been driven to me, and you seem to think it needed to be said yet again. :eyes:

The bigots had the right to send Rosa Parks to the back of the bus. They had the right to beat her and call her names--it was the law. Didn't make it right, and had she not stood up for the injustice where would many people be today? Apparently that point is lost on you and people like you that would rather see what "the law says" prevail.

I'm sick of this...

I probably won't be around much anymore.

[Warpy]

4. It's one thing to speak out against injustice and public bigotry

and I mean speak loudly enough for everyone to hear and in the media. This has been done.

It's quite another to diminish the effect by instituting a frivolous lawsuit against somebody's constitutional right to be a stupid bigot, one which will justifiably be laughed out before it ever gets to court. Alas, this too has been done.

[bliss_eternal]

5. Frivolous in your eyes...

The damage has been done. You chose your words, and they've made their difference with me today. Again, frivolous in your eyes. You obviously have no idea what you've said to me today.

Maybe not frivolous to one that believes the power and the weight of what was said needs to be challenged.

I haven't changed my mind. I won't be here anymore--I was in the process of composing some goodbyes and saw your response, and decided to respond in turn.

I stand up and speak out against sexist statements in the main forum. That's apparently welcome. But no one here is willing (or able) to see the injustice of the situation beyond that. I'm no longer comfortable posting in a forum where my gender is welcome but none of the other issues I believe in are.

Good day.

edited for typo.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Hang in there

Yesterday, rather than hanging out/lurking on DU, I was having Wikipedia fun. (I actually started looking up articles relating to patriarchy on my university access library) I was looking up the bio's of different feminists, as well as different philosophies.

One of the more striking contrasts (and relevant to your free speech subject)was the one between Judith Butler and Catherine Mackinnon. The subject matter in question was pornography of course. Both are educated, intelligent women. I'm a Mackinnon fan, although I'm not sure pornography violates the civil rights of women, it's certainly a violent and destructive force in our society. I'm not trying to change the subject here, but when I discuss feminist and pornography, I almost always have to add that I'm NOT trying to tell people what to do in their homes, or take away their right to view, make or participate in pornography or the sex industry. What I want, is a what I consider a realistic look at want it is, what it does, and how it affects society.

Much like what I want with racist topics. Racism exists. A lot of it. I look at it this way; MY right to free speech, and one of my deepest moral obligations includes calling bullshit on racism as I see it, on DU or anywhere else. We have to keep the dialog up. We have to continue to fight. We(meaning people who give a shit) aren't always going to agree on topics like racism and sexism, but as a subject I refuse to let it crawl into cracks, under rocks and in dark alleys. I want it in the light. I'll take my lumps when I have to when people don't agree with me.

I'm not as active here are you are Bliss, so I'm not on the firing line so to speak. I do value your thoughts and opinions. I missed the whole Allred thing, so I don't have any input, really. I look it up after work maybe. I hope you feel free to rant away when you need too.

[MuseRider]

7. Maybe I don't fully understand but

how is this not just like screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater?

I agree with you. If nothing else comes of this (I hope I am getting this right since I did not see the thread) it will bring it out in the open in a different way for more consideration.

IMNSHO, free speech does not mean we can get away with losing respect, consideration, compassion for others and understanding of what we are saying. I know it may be protected to do all those things but we need to be constantly encouraging and teaching people that those things are good markers for what you should and should not say.

Yes, I know, I am making a judgment on everyone's rights but I will not personally be able to hear much more of all of this. It does not matter if one is female, black or gay (or anything else for that matter), we must not let things like this slide. Our common decency, or lack of decency, will be the thing that determines how our society is shaped. I am not encouraged at how it is turning out.

Edit to add a couple of words :)