Young women and hair removal...

[bliss_eternal]

A few months ago, I was at a salon at the local mall. The place was absolutely packed! As I stood waiting in line to pay for my service, I noticed several of the very young girls in front of me were requesting brazilian waxing services. My husband was standing nearby and stated (after we left) that he overheard the same.

Apparently it was so busy that day as they were all there as part of their primping for graduation. :shrug:

When I was their age, I honestly didn't even know there was such a thing as a bikini wax. :wow: My graduation preparation was shopping for a new lipstick and outfit...oh and I did get my hair done. :blush:

I know with the whole stripper, porn chic thing --not to mention the insanity of Girls Gone Wild--as well as there being WAY more women's fashion and style magazines :eyes: now than probably ever before, it's easier to be aware of such services. But I don't get the sense of urgency with these women to wax every hair into submission--SO YOUNG.

I just encountered this article while looking at this news site, which reminded me of that day. Thought I'd share the article and bring up this issue.


Nov. 27 - KGO - A new hair style has become so popular in teens and young adults, it has almost become a mandatory fashion statement. It involves the new hairless look. It could have serious and permanent consequences.

Hair fashions come and go. Long hair and beards in the 60's; now bald can be beautiful. But one new intimate hair style trend is troubling because it can have real medical consequences.

Popularized in an episode of Sex in the City, it involves removing all body hair. At Spa Radiance, the hairless look is growing in popularity.

Angelina Umansky, owner, Spa Radiance: "This year has been the biggest year for Brazilian waxing ever at the Spa."

------------------snip---------------------------------

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=edell&id=3672541



It made me rather sad. I guess it answers my question to a degree--but wow. My heart is so sad for the girls these days, and the boys too--they are learning alot of stupid crap about women and it's awful.

What is going on? This all seems so bizarre to me.

[VelmaD]

1. As someone who has been both...

bare and au natural...I have some things to say about this. It bothers me that these girls seem to be doing for the boys. There is exactly one reason to go hairless and that is for yourself. You'd be amazed how much you feel things "down there" when you get rid of the hair. I really enjoyed that.

But...it was a pain in the butt to keep the hair off because my hair grows really fast. Plus I had a partner who actually preferred it that I let it grow back. I believe his exact words were "I like to know I'm having sex wtih a grow up". *snort*

I've known several men who shaved all the hair off "down there" as well and they had the same experience in terms of increased sensation. Most of them let some of the hair grow back but continued to shave in strategic locations because their partners appreciated it. ;) (It's amazing what men will do if they think it will encourage women to give them blowjobs.)

So personally I can go either way. It's something I would recommend every woman try at least once in her life to see if she likes it. But then, I would make the same recommendation to every man as well.

[bliss_eternal]

2. Hi Velma!

You're preaching to the choir...I LOVE being bare! Though, I don't take it ALL off, just enough for me... ;)

Why do you think "I" was at the salon to see and overhear all of this?! ;) LOL! I was there for my brow shaping and threading ritual.

I've been tweezing my eyebrows (which my mother hated) since I was old enough to figure out how to do it. Unibrows run in the family, and I didn't like it on me. Mom had one, and seemed to think anyone that removed their hair from any body part was a whore--I'm not lying. (yes, mother had some major ISSUES). Part of my doing it was rebellion, part of it was I liked the way it looked and felt. Though I find the unibrow quite beautiful in the paintings of Frida Kahlo (and on her). She was such a strikingly beautiful woman to me. But I'm that kind of creature that advocates for individuality and sees the beauty in people's differences.

Anyway, I digress--I TOTALLY agree. I understand someone liking to be bare and choosing to go that route. I'm all about choice to me. I agree that it's troublesome if the girls are doing it for the boys. Also, the sense I got from the article (and in other reading) is many girls today are doing it for "fashion", to fit in and not be ridiculed in locker rooms by their peers.

I also have to admit, I don't like to hearing of men that seem to prefer ALL the hair gone. Don't know why, but that disturbs me a bit. :shrug: I guess it kind of smacks of your ex's comment of having sex with a grown-up.

Your bj comments cracked me up, too! I guess my dh doesn't think like that. I've shown him articles on-line about more men getting their hair removed from that region and he is completely horrified by it. He looked a lot like this. :scared: He doesn't get how anyone (even me) would endure such a thing.

Thanks so much for your response! :hi: Good to see you!

[politicat]

3. How young?

They're fairly common (at least, if you take the number of salons offering them) around UC Boulder, but those women are 18-30, usually. I've never seen a true teenager (i.e. 13-17) in the shops I've frequented for waxing.

I personally wax because I'm a danger with a razor and it ends up being cheaper for me in the long run ($100 once every 6 weeks for the whole shebang versus 2-3 Venus razors a week... it works out.) I go back and forth between being trimmed and hairless; I find that I get itchy in the summers if I'm trimmed.

As for being part of the graduation ritual, I guess what worries me more than the idea that they're having Brazilians for their boys is the fact that they're likely to be engaging in multiple partner sex; one of the better reasons to have a Brazilian is to make post-coital cleanup easier. My generation got the AIDS message - we saw friends and loved ones die very painful, tortured deaths. The generation that followed me (I'm Gen X in a big way) didn't get that message. These days, the anti-retrovirals mean that someone can be HIV positive and very healthy for a really long time. It's not obvious anymore that AIDS is still utterly deadly. And getting a straight lad to wear a condom is like getting a a Mac-o-phile to use a Windows box... it can be done, but it's painful, frustrating and doesn't last long.

[bliss_eternal]

4. Hi politicat...

...the girls I saw at the salon were probably 16-17 considering it was hs graduation. A few may have been younger. I got the sense not all were actually graduating--some were also preparing for grad parties and celebrations, etc.

What's with the straight boys not wanting to wear condoms? Do they want to lose their winkies to disease, or their lives to death...? That's what they are looking at if they don't glove up... :(

[VelmaD]

5. It's simple...

at some basic level they understand that it's much more difficult to transmit most really nasty STDs from females to males than it is for a guy to give them to a girl. They aren't taking nearly the chance with their winky that they expect their female partners to take with their hoohas. Basically they're selfish bastards who only care about their own perceived pleasure.

[bliss_eternal]

6. ...ah--so true.

Wow, memories...

How could I have forgotten. :mad::grr:

I recall similar idiots in my dating days. :eyes: I'll just say with healthy esteem, such guys became a memory. I found people that were equally interested in protection, didn't even have to ask--they were already whipping it out, frequently with options. "Which kind do you like? Ribbed, lubed, ultra thin...?" :P

Then again, even with what I think was not good esteem, friends knew if they asked about a guy and found out he was history what happened.

"OMG...! He called after 10:00 didn't he?!" New guys that got familiar too quick and started to call after 10:00 OBVIOUSLY wanted a booty call. Was. not. having. it.

[politicat]

7. Yikes... that's scary.

I don't think I was confident enough at 16 or 17 to have some strange lady down between my legs playing with wax. (I had enough problems letting my girlfriend down there!)

I don't know what it is with the straight lads... not being one... but there have been several studies out recently that state that condom use among hetero men is WAY down. Since there is less of a chance that a non-HIV positive male will get HIV from an HIV positive female than the other way around (It's like 1 in 10 to 1 in 4, just because of the differences in biology) and since pregnancy is still the biggest reason stated for contraception use, I would guess that it goes back to the whole "she's on the pill (or ring or patch or shot)" thing that has haunted women for the past 40 years. And there's still an association between condoms and homosexual activity because the gay community got on the bandwagon and became strong safer sex proponents while there's no universal equivalent for straight young men. Gay men are pressured from the time they enter the larger gay community to wrap it up, but there's no similar peer network to push young men to do the same. And of course, the lads still persist in believing that all erotic sensation takes place in that specific four to six inches.

The big study was from IMPACT (UK based AIDS Trust) (copy here: http://www.xyonline.net/Ladsinlatex.shtml ), but there's a lay version (no pun intended) at www.salon.com (buried in a story about the death of the best condom to hit the planet since latex : http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/10/24/condoms/index.html )

[bliss_eternal]

8. LOL! I know what you mean...

I stil recall my first ob/gyn exam (prior to losing my virginity)--and it was a GUY!!! Horrible!! I really wasn't open to having ANYONE down there at that age. :scared: So in a way, maybe I'm kind of in awe that the girls today are so open to that at such a young age--and I wonder what that means in a bigger sense...

I can't believe that myth is still out there. One can still have great sex with condoms. Sure it feels different, but the condoms they are making now feel so natural. I also wish so many girls weren't still falling for it--that they were more empowered to know that this is all crap boys tell them so they don't have to take any responsibility for themselves or their sexuality. :banghead:

I refuse to do the pill (hate the hormones and issues that go with them). Dh and I have used condoms (among other things) since day one. No discomfort at all, very natural. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the links, politicat! :hi: I love to read, looks like some great info. Can't believe they killed a great condom option... :(

[CornField]

13. I was watching one of those 'industrial films with fur'

not too long ago with my husband and was pleasantly surprised to see the actors keeping everything wrapped up. Maybe... just maybe there might be a trend brewing.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. Most people graduating HS are 18.

Some 17 year olds and no 16 year olds unless they skipped a grade or two.

[StellaBlue]

20. $100 every six weeks?!

That would be painfully wasteful to me.

Like spending $50 a week on acrylic nails, like my stepmother.

I don't get all this feminine costumery stuff, not when it's so expensive and time-consuming.

More power to you, though. I just don't get it.

[ismnotwasm]

9. When I was reading through your thread

For some reason "The Dispossessed" by Ursula Le Guin came to mind, mostly because of the shock of one of the female characters when confronted with the idea that women from another world kept ALL their hair, to paraphrase "You mean, not just on her head? Everywhere?" (The fashion in this particular society was completely hairless for women) Here's an interesting study guide of the book;


http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/science_fiction/dispossessed.html

novel:
From the study guide, common feminist attitudes of the time:

1)Men and women should not be stereotyped by their gender roles.
One branch of feminism argued that there are no innate psychological or social traits associated with being a man or woman; another argued that there are, but that the ones associated with women have been devalued and distorted by patriarchal culture.
2)Men think in a linear fashion, women tend to think more holistically (the circle is a female symbol suggesting this idea).
3)Men define themselves by what they own and control; women by their relationships to other people.
4)Jobs should be done by whoever can do them, and gender is largely irrelevant to this.
5)Women should have equal access to jobs with men.
6)Marriage and motherhood should not prevent women from having careers any more than it prevents men from doing so.
7)Women should be able to pursue their careers without having where they live determined entirely by their husbands' jobs.
The social emphasis on physical beauty depersonalizes and dehumanizes women.
8)Language oppresses women: terms associated with them often create a presumption of passivity and weakness. New ways of using language to make men and women more equal are needed.
9)Capitalism is a patriarchal institution which oppresses women.
Women should not have to reshape and decorate themselves (removing body hair, for instance) to be accepted and loved.
10)Homosexuality and bisexuality should be just as socially acceptable as heterosexuality--as should celibacy.
11)Sex should be a matter of intimate sharing, not of conquest or trophy-hunting.
12)Rape is a crime of violence which should be punished much more severely than it usually is.
13)Women should not be defined by their childbearing abilities. Men can and should raise children as well as women.
14)Men strive to compete, but women prefer communal decision-making in which all aspects of a problem are discussed until a consensus is arrived at so that the group is not divided into winners and losers.
15)Modern childbirth techniques common in hospitals are dehumanizing and dangerous. Women should be able to give birth at home, without drugs, using such traditions as giving birth in a squatting position.
16)Childbirth is a natural phenomenon, not a disease. Women should be able to return to work shortly after giving birth.
The medical establishment is generally male-dominated; women need to reject the authority of doctors and insist on treatments appropriate to their needs.
17)A marriage in which a woman is prized only for her sexual attractiveness and availability is a sort of prostitution.
18)Children should be able to make many decisions about how they are raised.
19)A few feminists even argued that children should be able to "divorce" their parents.
20)Children should be raised to accept their bodies and their sexuality without shame.
21)Children can be raised by all kinds of configurations of loving adults: the traditional nuclear family is not necessarily the best model for childrearing.

"Great women from the past can provide inspiration for us today; their influence and importance need to be more widely recognized.
Note that this is not a definition of feminism--just a list of common attitudes among some feminists in the period that LeGuin was writing. See whether you can identify where she is agreeing with these positions, illustrating them, or disagreeing with them."

[NotGivingUp]

17. thank you! now this is more like what i was expecting to find

here in the feminist group. honestly, i cannot believe what i'm reading through most of the replies here. women have been sold a lousy bag of goods for so many years and now it's worse than ever. And you know why???...cuz the stupid women keep going along with it. sorry, that's how i feel. women keep caking on all this fucking makup on their faces, wearing clothes that are uncomfortable, wearing shoes that ruin their feet, their backs, pelvis and everything else, getting plastic surgery, shaving off all their fucking body hair, etc, etc, etc. for pity's sake..stand up for yourself...quit being sold the bag of goods that the corporations are selling you...that's it. i'm done.

[ismnotwasm]

18. I've just finished "The Total Women" by Germaine Greer

Here's an excerpt from her introduction "Recantation" (She wasn't going to write a follow-up to "The Female Eunuch")

"The contradictions women face have never been more bruising than the are now. The career woman does not know if she is to do her job like a man or like herself. Is she supposed to endure harassment or kick ass and take names? Is motherhood a privilege or a punishment? Even if it had been real, equality would have been a poor substitute for liberation; fake equality is being used in the name of political correctness to make the hammering that women are taking. When The Female Eunuch was was written our daughters were not cutting or starving themselves. On every side speechless women endure endless hardship, grief and pain, in a world system that creates billions of losers for every handful of winners.

It's time to get angry again"

That last line gave me chills. And that was just the start. Sometimes I need to get back to feminist basics.

[cally]

10. I started reading about this last week

and I admit I got fascinated by the implications and the new demands on young women. I started with a Salon question, and then I read all the comments. (http://www.salon.com/mwt/col/tenn/2006/08/09/shaving/index.html) It seems most the young men in the comments expect their partners to be fairly hairless (See the Table Talk thread linked from the article.)

I came from a different generation where the natural look was in. Most young men thought their partners wore no makeup and that their hair naturally looked like that. I refused to shave my legs for a year or so in college since it was unnatural. I had it easier than the young women today.

[CornField]

12. OUCH!

And that's all I have to say about that. This is one young woman who won't be participating in this fashion trend. I would prefer if my "hooha" :spray: was only touched with kindness and love by someone I've known longer than a 30-minute salon appointment.

[DawgHouse]

14. It seems bizarre to me too, the obsession with NO body hair.

It works both ways, though. I've heard lots of young women comment on how they hate hairy chests and basically prefer men who have no body hair at all. I don't get it.

[politicat]

16. I've been thinking about it some recently....

The hairlessness issue.... I think it's a perceived health issue at heart. Leaving out porno-chic, one of the key indicators of physical fitness is a lack of body hair. Hair only grows well on skin tissue with a layer of subcutaneous fat, so since our culture is increasingly fat-phobic, a hairless body is seen as fit and taut, and thus lovely.

The fact that pubic hair is not subject to this rule, being different than the regular body hair, is unrecognized. So when a young'un sees an image of a fit person without obvious leg, arm or chest hair, the young'un subconsciously associates body hair with unfitness. And once that association is made, then any body hair becomes a subconscious cue that hair is an indicator of ill health.

This too, shall pass, though. Fads in body grooming are as flexible as a 10 year old olympic gymnast.

One other thought... pubic hair makes public cleanliness harder. With the rise of intense gym and social exercise, it may be that the trend towards hairlessness is a way to make easier public cleaning.

[eridani]

15. Gay men seem to be very specific in their preferences

--when they have them, anyway. Either they like their partners completely hairless, or they go for the really hairy "bear" look.

[StellaBlue]

19. I don't get it.

All my female friends are out feminists and leftists. Educated, read a lot, etc.

We were having our usual weekly coffee night a few weeks ago and got round to talking about this topic. Everyone at the table - except me - routinely groomed their crotch hair. I don't get it. :eyes: Not being the easy-to-conform type, I told them flatly that I thought it was a waste of time and, really, kinda stupid. Oh, and I don't want any man that would expect such a thing or think more or less of me based on the amount or style of my hair, in any place.

They were all shocked. They were also shocked that I have never had a bikini wax. I do shave my legs, because *I* want to, whether I have a boyfriend at the time or not, and, when swimming, I shave all the way up to the bikini line and shave whatever might be outside the swimsuit. But I cannot fathom getting a Brazilian wax, which everyone else seems to simultaneously cringe over and think is necessary. I was like a pariah (and, as you can see from this paragraph, I am not exactly "radical"). In fact, I think they were all kind of embarrassed about my admission that I see nothing wrong with a hairy bush. Why the hell would I want to go through all that? And what's it like when it gets all stubbly? I assume you have to wait in between waxes for it to grow out long enough to wax again. And I also assume that you cannot have sex for maybe 24 hours, anyway, due to the skin being tender from the waxing. Maybe all these ladies have sparse, fine hair or something, but I really do not think the waxing thing would work for me! haha Ingrown hairs, constant waxing, itching as it grows... WTF? WHY would any sane grown woman subject herself to such a thing? Don't even get me started on the "pedophile" angle.

I finally just told them that maybe I should move to France. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

21. Hi StellaBlue...

:hi: Good to see you!

Now I'm confused, as I don't get why feminists friends would percieve this as a big deal. I totally "get" why you don't and wouldn't based on what you've shared. I would think educated women would have more compassion for your perspective and choice to not engage in such activity.

Personally, I wouldn't go through it at all but my body is really weird to be honest. Granted, as I said in a prior post, I do like the feeling of being bare. Unfortunately, I'm that odd person that has to do some level of grooming to a degree. Prior to removing my bikini line hair regularly (and some more extreme), I frequently got infections. :blush:

Also, and this is going to sound really strange...without clipping and waxing and such I get painful ingrown hairs in my bikini area. It's the most bizarre thing to me--but I've learned some others experience this too.

Before this problem developed, I was like you. I didn't get why anyone would put themselves through such torture. Seemingly overnight I started to frequently develop big, painful pus-filled bumps right on my pantyline. When I finally went to find out why, I discovered the way I could alleviate it was to get rid of the hair. So I did.

The pain of waxing (for me), is nothing compared to the bumps I get. They get irritated by everyday things like wearing underwear and walking around. Since waxing is only temporary, I plan to eventually get the hair removed permanently to alleviate the problem.

[cally]

22. I'll try to explain

First, I doubt you would experience discomfort if you had not waxed/shaved/whatever at all.

Second, I'm going to try from my very radical perspective. We should honor who we are. Men and women in their natural state are beautiful. I think men who alter their appearance are crazy and I think women who do so are the same. I said in this thread that I once refused to shave my legs and I still believe that. It's insane to try to adopt to the current culture standards. My great aunt, now deceased, shaved her eye brows. I suspect she had dominant eye brows like my own. When Brooke Shields was the standard of beauty, we all wanted heavy eyebrows. My Aunt had none because they would no longer grow.

Why are you altering your sexuality? I've read the threads about enabling oral sex but my view is that we've gotten through a millennium or two and I think men of our time can deal with our natural state. If they can't, that is more scary for them than for us.

[bliss_eternal]

23. Correction....

Why do you "doubt it"? Because it hasn't happened to you? Because you've never heard of such a thing before? Or is it because you need to try to make me feel badly about my choice because you don't agree with it?

For clarification: BEFORE I ever shaved, waxed, tweezed or anything else--I got bumps. I saw a dermatologist about it, as well as my family physician.

This IS something that CAN occur with those with very coarse, thick and/or curly hair. I have all of the above and very sensitive skin. The hair turns back in on itself creating ingrowns, particularly in areas that are rubbed frequently from clothing, etc. The most common cause of ingrowns is shaving(i.e. men get them on their necks and face sometimes)--but it can and does occur frequently if one has coarse, curly hair without shaving (or waxing).

For more info. (if interested):
http://www.ingrown-hairs.info/

http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/19/129.cfm

I'm sorry but I found your response to me rather rude and condescending. I'm not at all sure why you have responded to me this way. I thought this was a discussion about the practice of waxing in general among young girls, with some personal experiences thrown in for the sake of discussion.

How do you feel when people "dismiss" your personal experiences because they haven't walked in your shoes? Or they just don't like or agree with what you are doing?

I don't like to be pigeonholed based on one aspect of my life, do you?

[bliss_eternal]

24. Addition to post--Ingrowns and curly hair info.:

(taken from links in prior post--while searching for resource information, my editing period expired. :blush:)

An ingrown hair can also occur when an individual hair grows straight up out of a follicle, then curls back down and reenters the follicle, says Dr. Kronberg.

Women with thick, curly hair are particularly prone to this later type of ingrown hair, says Dr. Kronberg.

-------------------------snip---------------------------
"Ingrown hairs are also common around the upper, inner thigh (also known as the bikini line)," adds Mary Stone, M.D., associate professor of dermatology at the University of Iowa in Iowa City. "Sometimes, because of the rubbing that occurs in that area, the follicles close up a bit, which tends to encourage the hair to bend and grow through the side of the follicle rather than straight up through what's left of the opening."

taken from:
http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/19/129.cfm

[cally]

25. I'll apologize for that

but I still stand by my belief that more natural is better in all aspects of our life. That is not a personal criticism towards you or a judgement towards others, but rather a statement of my own values.

[bliss_eternal]

26. I appreciate that...

thank you. :)

You are entitled to your beliefs. I just don't feel you are entitled to lump everyone together and to make assumptions about anyone here, based on your personal values. But again, I do appreciate your apology--thanks again.

best,
bliss

[KitSileya]

27. I remember a former classmate coming back from a year in NZ

- we must have been seniors in high school - coming back and doing a little speech about what it was like, and I remember how surprised we were when she told us girls there shaved their legs and armpits. It hadn't occurred to us to do that yet - this was in Norway, in 1993. Waxing our pubic hair was even more alien. Even plucking our eyebrows weren't familiar. Now of course, shaving legs and armpits are usual (tho, I often forgo it for the cold 6 months of the year, except when I'm supposed to wear evening gowns.)

I believe that this hairlessness is the result of influence from the US, through beauty magazines especially, tho' waxing pubic hair is still unusual except in the capital, or in the 'better' homes, who can afford going to a beauty salon (it's a lot more expensive here than in the US - even getting a manicure is a typical high-powered business world thing.)

Your story does reflect on the intense scrutiny America has on policing the body - we did a class on the American Gothic tradition in grad school where the professor (now head of American studies at Georgetown U) argued that America's fascination and obsession with the body goes all the way back to the Puritans. They were very concerned with keeping the body, and sex, within certain specific boundaries, and this concern quickly became an obsession as the body is very difficult to keep under control. Just ask genital mutilating and burka-insisting cultures of the world.