Okay, I'll try this again.

[BlueIris]

A few weeks ago, I posted about a painful, life-destroying relationship with an anti-feminist male. I've had therapy to get over the agony this relationship ended up causing me and to deal with the damage it did to my life. Returning to therapy at this time isn't an option, but as soon as it is, I'm going to return to the process because of, well, the reason I'm posting: the situation is still negatively affecting me. A lot. Does anyone have any websites or book recommendations for books or sites giving advice for how to get over negative relationships--from a feminist perspective? My usual haunts aren't offering any productive solutions. At the moment, I would even settle for a really great list of positive affirmations. Any terrific non-therapy, non-Rx remedies that have helped you forget about a bad relationship from your past that you would like to share would be welcome.

[chicaloca]

1. we should start a meta-thread....

for stuff like this, since it seems like so many of us are dealing with it. :( I wish I had some sure-fire suggestions, but unfortunately I'm in pretty much the same situation you are. This might sound hokey and new-agey, but one successful short-term aid I use is this flower essence stuff you can buy at health food stores. It's called Rescue Remedy, and it relieves stress really well. I prefer the drops to the spray, and I haven't tried the cream. You can find it http://www.bachflower.com/rescue_remedy.htm">here, although it's also made by other companies. Also, reading stuff about my issues that's geared toward psychologists and psychiatrists has also helped -- although since I'm not in exactly what one would call optimal mental health, maybe that tactic hasn't worked as well as I once thought. At any rate, http://www.mincava.umn.edu/library/dv/">here's a link to an exhaustive amount of reading on relationships, violence, etc. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much on emotional abuse, so if that's what you were dealing with, this list might not be so helpful.

Otherwise, you could always vent here. We're here to listen (although I'll be leaving shortly and might not get to a computer until Monday, but most people here know more about this than I do, anyhow). Good luck, and take care! :hug:

[BlueIris]

2. Aw, thanks! Your "flower essence" suggestion isn't hokey, btw.

I've actually resorted to use of "healing" and "worry" stones lately. Because, well, until I can return to therapy, the "cheap, easy, and psychosomatic" route is fine. It can't hurt, you know? Thanks for your "violence in relationships" stuff. For the official record, the relationship was not violent--he was "just" a gigantic asshole. But I'm open to anything at this point.

[Eloriel]

4. What a relief -- (and metathread link)

see my little disclaimer in the post I just made.

And since chicoloca mentioned a metathread, it reminded me of these two, which are just filled with New Agey ideas which may be helpful:

The DU Spiritual Emergency Tool Kit
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=4645

also: How to rid myself of negative energy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=5108#5174

[chicaloca]

6. trust me, the stuff definitely helps!

and I hope you never feel like you're not entitled to be upset because he was "just" emotionally abusive. My dad was both emotionally and physically abusive, and the emotional pain has hurt me just as much as, if not more, than the physical abuse. In a way I could say it's _good_ that he was also physically abusive, because then people will at least take me seriously when I say he treated me like shit and messed me up. Also, I once read that acquaintance rape victims often have a harder time healing than victims of stranger rape. Apparently a big part of the reason for that is that acquaintance rape victims feel like they shouldn't be so upset, because it was "just" acquaintance rape and not stranger rape. I think the psychological process is much the same for people who've been verbally or emotionally abused but not physically abused. And for me, getting over rape has been difficult primarily because of people's attitudes toward it. If everybody in the world rejected rape culture and objectification of women, I'd be a completely different person. Sure, I'd still have issues stemming from the actual act, but if it was me and the world against the rapist rather than vice versa, I'd be in much better shape.

But anyhow, I hope the Rescue Remedy works! Have a good weekend! :hi:

[WildClarySage]

41. Acquaintance rape is also more difficult in many cases because

there continues to be contact between rapist and victim (mutual friends, classes, workplace, etc) and because acquaintance rape is often harder for the victim to acknowledge as rape. Stranger rapes are also very awful and hard to 'get past', for other reasons.

All rape is awful and until it is eradicated completely, equality remains out of our grasp.

[shockra]

43. I've used healing and worry stones a lot in the past.

Always carried one in my pocket, or in my hand. I have quite an extensive collection of semi-precious and precious stones for that purpose, though I haven't used them much lately. The precious stones can be gotten very cheaply from Lapidary stores -- uncut or flawed pieces.

My favorite is the Rose Quartz. Supposed to be good for the self-esteem and mending a broken heart. I used to make necklaces out of the beads to sell on consignment locally, so I got to touch it all day long! :)

It's a nice, gentle, "loving" stone, in various shades of pink. And yes, sometimes I loaded up on it. Some stones's energies aren't compatible with all people, but the rose quartz and quartz crystals in general seem to be compatible with everyone.

[BlueIris]

44. I've actually been having a lot of fun with stones lately.

And Rose Quartz is actually one of the stones affiliated with my astrological sign (I'm a Taurus). Tommorow, I'm picking up some black kyanite from one of the local shops, which was recommended by another poster here as being soothing in the wake of spiritual choas.

[shockra]

45. That's great!

I read about Rose Quartz being affiliated with Taurus long after I started using it, and was a little confused, since I'm a Gemini and felt a strong connection. I have Mercury-Mars-Jupiter conjunct in Taurus, though. So that might explain it. :)

Kyanite is one that I don't have. I looked into it and it sounds great. Especially that it doesn't retain negative vibrations and never needs to be cleared. I never feel like I'm able to completely clear my stones of negativity, so I tend to stop using them after awhile. Instantly aligns the chakras...I think I could use that, LOL.

[BlueIris]

46. Same here. Except, in case you don't know--it's not cheap.

That has a lot to do with unavalibility in the Western U.S., I'm told.

[BlueIris]

24. Bach's Walnut is awesome!

Took me awhile to find it--my fave natural/organic foods seller was kind of hiding it. As someone who posted in the How I Rid Myself of Negative Energy Thread wrote--it's kind of like taking an aspirin. You take it and in awhile you feel a little better. I used some awhile ago and I feel somewhat less stressed. It's great.

ETA: Eloriel posted about the subtle, healing effects of the Walnut stuff. Good assessment, Eloriel!

[BlueIris]

34. Ah, Walnut essence. So useful and nice.

Ah, serenity. Good thing, too, this morning was...a little stressful.

[shockra]

30. I love Rescue Remedy.

I've used it after deaths in the family, to deal with the shock. And I've used it on my pets when they were nearing the end of their lives and in distress (rubbed some of the cream into their paw pads).

I really got into flower essences. I eventually got all of the Bach Remedies, and then a bunch of kits from Flower Essence Services. They must have over a 100 different essences. Some of the ones I found most beneficial were Self Heal, Lotus (spiritual elixir), Aloe Vera (for "burn out"), Trillium (for clearing negative energy from the 1st/survival chakra).

A funny story about Rescue Remedy. I used it on this pitiful looking shamrock plant that didn't look like it was going to make it. It was all dried out with its few leaves bending over the bowl and touching the table. I really didn't think it had a chance. I gave it a few drops a few times and within weeks it was the lushest, greenest plant with lots and lots of leaves, all of them standing up at attention. I'd never seen a living thing rally like that before. I think it would have thanked me if it could. Sometimes when I would look at it its leaves would twitch. I know that sounds freaky, but I swear.

[Eloriel]

3. I have at least 2 suggestions

The first is a type of nonconventional "therapy" that you can do yourself -- for free. It's easy to learn, quick, painless, and can be astonishingly effective. Some problems (or parts of problems) can be eliminated virtually instantly (really), and some problems or their parts take a little more work and repetitive effort. I use it a lot, and should use it far more. It's called Emotional Freedom Technique or EFT:

Emotional Freedom Technique
http://www.emofree.com/newcomer.htm
Tutorials: http://www.emofree.com/tutorial.htm
Articles: http://www.emofree.com/art.htm
Case Studies http://www.emofree.com/default.htm#EFT%20at%20work
Download manual: http://www.emofree.com/eftmanl.pdf

Read the intro, poke around and look at some of the case studies, and download the free manual if it looks interesting. If you want to pursue it, after you've read the manual I'll be happy to give you some tips and shortcuts, etc., by phone if you like.


The second recommendation is Flower Essences. These aren't free but they're a lot cheaper than therapy. They're very much like homeopathic remedies, except the level they address is mental/emotional/spiritual (whereas homeopathy is primarily physical). I can give you some recommendations for WHICH FEs might be appropriate if you like, but two that come immediately to mind are from Bach or Healing Herb: Walnut for cutting links, protecting oneself against negative influence of others, transitions, new beginnings, etc.; and White Chestnut (same maker) for stopping those recurring thoughts that go 'round and 'round in your head. I'm sure there are others that would be helpful as well.


A third recommendation, a creative visualization. When we have relationships with people -- perhaps especially intimate relationships -- often there are psychic links that need to be dissolved or cut. You can do a meditation or creative visualization and/or ritual for that. Sometimes people who aren't particularly good for us leave psychic hooks or barbs or other "contaminants" of themselves behind, which can be embedded in us in various places. I'll just leave this to you -- if it resonates, it might be something worth pursuing.


Actually, a fourth. Just a nice cleansing bath can help -- a combo of sea salt and some epsom salts, for examply. Maybe a few drops of some essential oil of your choice. Something as simple as this can help.

Hope these haven't been too "woo woo" for you or others. I happen to be into such things -- alternative healing, energy healing such as EFT, homeopathy, flower essences, and the like, and am willing to talk about them. I've found them remarkably healing and they have enriched -- and helped heal -- my life immeasurably.

Good luck!!

[BlueIris]

5. Thank you so much. This is going so much better than last time.

Excellent.

[tishaLA]

7. Gloria Steinem's Revolution from Within

[BlueIris]

11. tishaLA, you read my mind!

This was the book I used at the end of the last major crisis I had re: this misogynist. I was thinking I should go dig it out of my boxes of books in the garage (sorry, Ms. Steinem, I have a lot of books).

[shockra]

8. Let's Face It, Men Are @$$#%\c$

By two (male!) psychologists, Joseph W. Rock and Barry L. Duncan. It's a serious book, but laced with a sense of humor. And it can help a lot to be able to laugh when you're in pain. They identify different types of assholes, and how you can deal with them. Controlling Assholes, Lying, Cheating Assholes, Immature Assholes, Emotionally Retarded Assholes, plus the subtypes and combinations of the previous.

An excerpt from near the back of the book:

Are We Being Too Hard on Men?

You would have to comb through this book very carefully to find even a handful of positive references to men. We call them assholes. We accuse them of lying and controlling, and generally avoid highlighting any positive attributes they possess.

Our answer to the question of whether we are being too hard on men is: "Hell, no!" It seems to us that everybody else is being too easy on them. Granted, a lot of self-help books point out men's difficulties in managing relationships, communicating and parenting. But they have a heavy bias toward understanding and remediation. To a large extent we are playing devil's advocate by going to the other extreme. We don't deny that men are shaped by evolutionary, cultural and familial influences. We're just tired of their being used as excuses for unacceptable behavior.

Let us also reiterate one last time that we don't by any means, intend to imply that all men are assholes. But an alarmingly high proportion are, and even many who aren't have tendencies it would serve them well to be more aware of. It is one thing to criticize and demean disenfranchised segments of of our society -- minorities, women, the poor. It is quite a different matter to come down on those who dominate society as men do.

Few men will read this book because they are not uncomfortable; they have it made; they have power in government, finance and relationships. People read self-help books when they are hurting. If what women read in this book can be used to help them make certain types of men even a little less comfortable, we will be delighted. When people are uncomfortable, they look for new ways to do things. Men need to be more uncomfortable.

[BlueIris]

10. Heh. Thanks.

"Hell, no!"

Yeah, pretty much.

[atommom]

12. I love it! It makes me want to read the book, even though

my DH is not (normally) an asshole. :rofl:

[Eloriel]

13. Yeah, but what about all the OTHER guys in your life --

like the other half of the whole freakin' world?

Me too. Sounds like a book I could definitely use.

[chicaloca]

18. oh, wow.

That looks like one I should get. The excerpt posted above also reminds me of a psychological theory that explains why women often let men off easily. It's described in a book called "Loving to Survive: Sexual Terror, Men's Violence, and Women's Lives." I didn't get through the whole thing, as it's kind of depressing, but it maintains that women suffer from a sort of collective Stockholm Syndrome, in which we bond with our oppressors in order to survive. In such an environment, small acts of kindness by men seem much larger than they actually are because we experience so much emotional and physical violence from them otherwise. It can explain anything from how women end up staying in a bad relationship (because abusers dangle these nice acts like treats every so often and their victims view them as mcuh kinder than they actually are because it's so different from the abuser's usual behavior) to how men who really aren't all that great are viewed as wonderful because so many others are just awful and women are just glad to not be completely treated like crap.

I hope this makes sense -- One of my friends will be moving out of town in a few days, and I just realized that today is my last chance to hang out with him, so I'm in a rush to get out of here. I'll paste a slightly more coherent summary from another Web site below:

"Graham contends that women collectively suffer from the Stockholm syndrome - the psychological bonding of a kidnap victim with his/ her kidnapper, as a result of woman's constant fear of being economically, verbally, sexually, or physically assaulted. According to Graham, women's apparent subservience, gentleness, and self-sacrificing manner are an adaptive mechanism for dealing in a world full of violence against women."
http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/stokholm.html

[Eloriel]

19. AFAIK, that fits perfectly with sociological theory re oppressed

peoples -- their hypervigilance relative to the oppressor, their ability to know the oppressor much better than the oppressor knows himself, their willingness to become Uncle Toms, Queen Bees, Jewish Concentration Camp guards, etc., etc.

Yeah, I buy it.

You take a look at the reactions of yourself and other women to the kind of violence we've all experienced (it really is on a continuum scale -- different in degree, much less so in kind), and eventually you come to the inescapable conclusion that we women are an occupied people.

[Hello_Kitty]

20. men who really aren't all that great are viewed as wonderful

That reminds me of my dad. My parents got divorced back in 1973. Back then it was expected that the mother would get custody. However, my mom had some problems and my dad was a vengeful asshole so he intimidated her into granting him custody of my sister and me. Now, for her part, she stayed away from us for many years when she could have had visitation so she was pretty shitty too. Her abandonment was regarded with the social opprobrium it was worthy of in the situation.

But my dad, who was abusive to us in numerous ways was treated like he was some sort of martyred saint by everyone. Including the family therapist we went to for several years. My sister and I were having serious problems, with me especially acting out in school and getting into trouble. Not surprising considering our dad was an alcoholic and a rage-oholic (and a molesting creep to boot). We described what was going on in our house (minus the molesting stuff - we were too scared for that) to the shrink, pretty brave considering he was right there in the session and she acknowledged that it "sounded like abuse" or something like that.

But nothing came of it. No calls were placed to Child Protective services and nothing critical was said to our father that I know of. Sometimes she would talk to him privately after the sessions. Dad would gloat on the way home that she would tell him what a great job he was doing, all things considered. And you know why... Because he was a man, and wasn't he just so brave and wonderful for making the sacrifice of raising 2 girls when their worthless mother wouldn't. So what if we got punched, or hit in the face with a belt, or slapped silly because a dishrag wasn't wrung out. Didn't we realize how lucky we were? To have such a fabulous role model of male responsibility before us? Even then I knew that was bullshit. I saw divorced moms around me doing the same damn thing (usually without beating their kids) and people acted like it was nothing.

Yeah, I definitely hate the way things are so differently valued depending on the gender of who does them.

[Eloriel]

35. What a horrible story

It's utterly incredible what so many women go through -- as children, as young adults, as adult women. Men wouldn't be able to handle it. Really, they wouldn't.

When I hear people use the term "war of the sexes," I always have to add (silently to myself, if that's all I'm able to): yeah, and who STARTED that war?

[Hello_Kitty]

9. The great thing about being a feminist

Is that you are granted an awareness of how society really works that few will ever get. The shitty thing about it is that it reduces your mating pool significantly. And let's face it, most people's pool of potential mates is small enough to begin with.

But once you've crossed that line, there's no going back, not even to get a guy. I admit to temporarily abandoning some of my feminist principles in my 20s and early 30s in order to improve my dating prospects. It worked but I ended up in relationships like the one you were in. And what made it so much worse is that I knew I was selling out. At least women who haven't been exposed to feminist ideology don't have to deal with that in addition the misery of a crappy relationship.

I've decided it's not worth it. If I meet someone who is down with feminism, great. If not, oh well.

As far as getting over it, there are lots of great suggestions on this thread. The only thing I could add to that is to remember the old adage "Living well is the best revenge". Not that I think you should feel vengeful or that I'm being trite. I've just found that when I immerse myself in positive activity after a bad breakup, i.e., exercise, a new hobby, classes, it really helps me to get over it sooner and in better shape. Bad breakups have often prompted me to make major life changes, like buying my house. I also recommend laughter, lots of laughter. Funny authors like David Sedaris and trips to comedy clubs. Music is great too. But not sappy-ass love songs. I mean loud, pumping, raucous shit with a boomin' beat. When you find yourself wallowing, slip some techno, dance, or thrash metal in your cd player and clean out your closets or something. That's what I do, anyway. My house is spotless after a breakup!:)

I know none of that is very inventive but it's always gotten me through it. Take care :hug:

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Your post reminds me of many things, wise things I've learnt

over the years, ccbombs.

Nothing to do with feminism, as such, so much as dealing with a twisted world from a no-compromise-underdog standpoint. More like a contemptuous oath, I'm afraid, than "if you can't beat them, join them". Why? Because I've alway felt very keenly that it would be a lessening, a cheapening, a demeaning, a degadation, a humiliation of myself, however differently others might see it. Going with the flow, irrespective, has never seemed an option. Maybe it's why I've always tended to attract "maverick" kind of girls, insofar as I have.

When I'd lost a real sense of purpose as a young man, I was told by a wise old Polish cafe-proprietor that no matter how humble, how menial the task I was doing at a given time, always to do it to the best of my ability. As if I was doing it for the glory of God. Well, I would have been, but atheists could maybe pretend...

I believe it's common sense to most people, but it wasn't to me. The next day I started with that attitude at work, and immediately it was like the beginning of a new chapter in my life. It helps you to take not just one day at a time, but one minute at a time.

I like the positive brio with which you attack your life, after a "bad break-up", ccbombs. I'm never "down" for long, more tha a day or two, and that very rarely. And probably being more intraverted, personally, I'd prefer to listen to Gerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard atc -type records when I'm upbeat, but I get the point. To be very positive.

My best way to be positive is to let the mood flow through me in passive quietness, reminding myself that it will pass of its own accord in a short space of time. All that's required of me is patience and faith.

I know plain women who are extremely attractive, not just to me but to other men, because as well as having a nice nature, they like themselves. Maybe it's easier said than done, and we all know the theory, but that's the way forward, isn't it? Ironical really that mostly, we need to be happy with ourself - kind of independent - to attract others!

[lukasahero]

14. Not sure you will find this particularly relevant but...

"Any terrific non-therapy, non-Rx remedies that have helped you forget about a bad relationship from your past that you would like to share would be welcome."

I am sorry I missed your original post. (I have tried to find it to see if I can discern some of what happened without success.) Since I don't know the particulars, I'm not sure you will find my thoughts on this relevant but figured I'd offer it anyway.

My situation had a great deal to with me. Not that I "caused" or "deserved" any of what happened, but I really needed to do some serious introspection to figure out how I got involved in it in the first place. (Please keep reading, I am NOT saying you are to blame!) That very act of introspection is one of the first things that helped me "move on".

In that act of introspection, I realized I was not to blame. Yes, I discovered some tendencies within myself that I could adjust to protect myself from getting in such a situation going forward but first and foremost I needed to place the blame where it belonged - on him and his bad behavior. Part of what kept me in the situation in the first place WAS my willingness to accept my role in it - too much so. So much so that I didn't see that the problem was really his. Lesson one. (For me.)

Once I made that realization, I was able to "develop" myself. (And this is probably the part that doesn't relate to your experience but I'll still put it out there.) I had to figure out who I was without him, what I liked, what I wanted, and then actually get my butt in gear and DO something about it.

I developed my life outside of that relationship, outside of A relationship. I re-connected with friends, hobbies and interests I had long abandoned. It was in re-establishing myself, my own persona again, that allowed me to let go of the past. (I was too busy doing things I loved to waste any more precious time on something so hateful.)

I spend time in nature, I volunteer with animals, I play my guitar and garden, practice yoga and meditation - all things that have no understanding of the will to abuse. I have also had to work hard on getting my health back (so I have learned how to cook - now a new hobby.)

I still have dreams and nightmares so the healing is far from over but I believe we're always a work in progress anyway (unless we're dead) so I try hard to interpret what the dreams are telling me, learn from them and then put them away. (Easier said than done when all they leave you is a feeling of fear and dread but...) I guess this isn't from a "feminist" perspective per se. It's just my experience.

As hoaky as it sounds I have drawn on these two verses often in my life to affirm my value and worth: "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have right to be here." and "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world." Max Ehrmann, Desiderata

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. My personal bit of therapy has been to take note of every time someone

(anyone) does something nice or thoughtful for me and to consciously say, "This person is treating me better than the man I supposedly love."

Eventually it works. :hug:

[lukasahero]

17. "than the man I supposedly love."

And perhaps more importantly, than the man who supposedly loves you.

This is a good affirmation. Thanks for sharing it.

[Beaverhausen]

16. Louise Hay's books help me

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=ol7E22xAmM&isbn=1401902197&itm=9

This is a book/CD combo that really works.

The thing about her instruction that helped me the most was that I stopped blaming others and I took control over my own thoughts and my own life. That way I really don't let others "get to me." Its a work in progress but it is truly life changing.

I also recommend The Four Agreements
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=ol7E22xAmM&isbn=1878424319&itm=1

and The Mastery of Love
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=ol7E22xAmM&isbn=1878424440&itm=5

These aren't feminist but they are tremendously helpful to anyone.

:hug:

[lukasahero]

21. With all due respect, Beaverhausen, I think "blaming others"

when they're the one with the bad behavior (some day I'll learn to not use gross understatements about this kind of sh*t) is entirely appropriate.

Men who use violence against women are vile. (To satisfy the lurking "men's rights" crowd, women who use it against men are equally vile but much less common. :eyes:) This isn't a matter of letting someone "get to (you)", it's a matter of physical and emotional safety.

Out of respect for your philosophical and religious choices, I won't get into what I personally think of Hays teachings and those she chooses to follow but I will note that when asked by a reader where they could go to "get support", she notes "there’s a teacher that’s very influential in my life right now: Abraham."

According to the web site she directs the reader to, "Esther Hicks is an inspirational speaker who dialogs with a group of spiritual teachers who call themselves Abraham." This Abraham-Hicks "spirituality" seems to have stemmed from the "Seth Speaks" books.

All of this stuff has as it's underlying philosophy that "You are here in this body because you chose to be here. You wanted the opportunity to experience this delicious contrast in time and space, and with great anticipation you came to co-create with other joy-seeking beings, to fine-tune the process of deliberate thought. (What, where, when and with whom are your choices, too.)" http://www.abraham-teachings.com/

Basically, to me this says "Hey all you women who are raped and abused, you CHOSE this for yourself by some underlying desire to experience it, some hidden spiritual message you are sending to the universe." No offense but this is not only NOT a feminist message, it is a dangerous one.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kalibex]

38. hehe

"...Esther Hicks is an inspirational speaker who dialogs with a group of spiritual teachers who call themselves Abraham."

As a friend of mine once noted:

"Just cause someone is deceased, or other planar, doesn't necessarily make 'em Bright..."

:evilgrin:

-B

[BlueIris]

23. To others who want to post here: Suggestions should be feminist.

For those of you who read my original post, I would love to hear your suggestions, but they won't be helpful to me unless their sources are feminist, or from a distinctly feminist perspective. The relationship I was in was with an abusive anti-feminist; I'm not interested in books, websites, films or self-help remedies that don't endorse or respect feminism, denounce misogyny, and provide validation and support for those who have been subject to misogynist and sexist oppression and abuse. Thanks so much.

[tishaLA]

25. IIRC bell hooks has a book

I read it many years ago. I think it's called Sisters of the Yam. It talks about female self-help from an African American feminist perspective, but I remember many of the things she said resonating for a broad feminist audience.

If you don't know hooks' work, you might really enjoy her. One of the first serious feminist books I read was Ain't I a Woman, which she wrote as an undergrad IIRC (my memory seems to be failing me today) and her book "Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center" and her book with Cornell West, "Breaking Bread," were really inspirational to me in college.

[BlueIris]

27. Thanks. I've never really gotten into bell hooks.

All of my women's studies classes had an emphasis on Black Feminism, especially WRT its connection to the Black Power Movement of the '60s/'70s, but hooks was never my favorite. Perhaps now is the time to check her out again. I didn't know she'd collaborated with Cornell West. I best that's an interesting read.

[lukasahero]

26. Some books I can recommend

I wanted to make sure these actually had a feminist bent to them before I recommended them (I read them ages ago and at the time would have read anything that offered any glimpse of hope...)

"It's My Life Now: starting over after an abusive relationship or domestic violence" by Meg K. Dugan & Roger. R. Hock is one of the few books I have found that discusses what to do once "it's over" both from a practical/safety perspective and an emotional one. (This is a classic on the shelves of most Women's Centers/Studies of college campuses everywhere.)

"No Visible Wounds" by Mary Susan Miller PhD discusses the mental/psychological impact of abuse that often goes untreated (ie - because it's "not visible") Discusses how to get out, stay out and heal. A book that has the men on amazon up in arms because it's 'only about the women!' Also "explores why this outrageous treatment of women continues unabated in our society."

"Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out" by Patricia Evans (see also: "The Verbally Abusive Relationship")

I wasn't sure this last one would meet the "must be from a feminist perspective" requirement until I read one particular review at amazon. Some of the highlights of that review:

""Survivors Speak Out" is 100% geared toward women; a quality which the author freely admits in the introduction, and which is the very quality that makes it ultimately questionable and sometimes downright dangerous...What hurts more here, are the constant sexist, male-bashing comments attended thereto by Evans...Evans seems to present a very good model and description, and categorization of what abuse is, albeit highly peppered with a lethal dose of venemous 1970's radical feminism, the kind of feminism that empowers women by blaming men. At no point in the book does she ever examine a man's opinion of the relationship, unless they are writing in to "confess" that they have been abusive...By this book, Evans has in a way created her very own language, where everyone has to carefully measure every word chosen, and where no man can open his mouth once without being accused of abuse. Her drooling followers are legion; angry, aggressive, blaming."

BWAHAHA! My kind of book! ;) It's also total BS (the kind of labelling that goes on here when people are called on their bad behavior). Actually, I have read both of these books and found them helpful, but I'd recommend the other two even more.

Patricia Evans also has a website and message board (message board is private and you can only register by talking to someone - they take this stuff seriously) that has some info on it but it is mostly for identifying an abusive relationship and getting out and not so much on how to heal afterwards.

For a less "personal healing" read about violence against women from a specifically feminst perspective - one that discusses and analyzes policy and activism, see "Women, Violence and Strategies of Action: feminist research, policy and practice." by Jill Radford, Melissa Friedberg and Lynne Harne

Read a detailed review here: http://www.mcgraw-hill.co.uk/openup/chapters/0335203698.pdf or see the amazon synopsis here http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0335203698/ref%3Dnosim/dannyyeesbook-21/026-7526742-4598866

This isn't necessarily what you're looking for, but you might still find it an interesting and beneficial read.

[shockra]

28. The Verbally Abusive Relationship

That was a very informative book. I read it some time ago, but the one thing that really stayed with me was the information that verbal abusers aren't always physically abusive, but physical abusers are *always* verbally abusive.

So verbal abuse is how it starts, and someone who is being physically abused you can be positive is also being brainwashed with highly personal insults to make them believe they deserve it. Makes you better understand why women can find it so hard to leave. They're being assaulted on all fronts, psychologically, physically, and emotionally, until they're too fearful to act or even think for themselves and too exhausted from the fear to try.

[BlueIris]

29. Interesting.

I have a book on emotional abuse, so one that focuses on verbal abuse would fit within my growing library quite nicely.

"verbal abusers aren't always physically abusive, but physical abusers are *always* verbally abusive."

It has been my experience that many verbal/emotional abusers engage in this form of abuse because they "can't" physically abuse their victims for one reason or another--ie; the social stigmas against physical abuse as "real" abuse are inhibiting to them (as is sometimes the case with female abusers), or for some reason they aren't able to effect the abusive behaviors they would like to (I once knew an older person in a wheelchair who, despite his disability was still entirely capable of verbally abusing his children and spouse).

[shockra]

31. Yes.

They think that as long as they don't cross that line, what they're doing can't be called abuse. Of course if they do, then there are new excuses as to why they're not to blame.

[lukasahero]

32. Ding ding ding we have a winner

My ex used to brag (and I mean, for real) about how "hey I never hit you". (What a prince. :eyes:) As if screaming and threatening and pulling my hair and pushing me etc wasn't abuse. Of course that was until he did start hitting and you're right, then it was another excuse.

Of course, that's also part of what made it difficult to leave - even I wasn't able to identify it as abuse - "hey, he hasn't actually hit me so it can't be abuse". By the time he did hit me, I was so f*cked up mentally that I didn't have the emotional courage or means to leave.

I did finally pull myself together and get out. This post wasn't supposed to be about that crap, it was just supposed to give an idea as to how it happens, how smart, strong women find themselves trapped in these nightmares and help people who've never "been there" understand it's like the frog in the pot - turn up the heat just a little at a time and he doesn't know it's boiling until it's too damn late.

BlueIris, that's why I recommended the books - the psychological damage done in ANY abusive relationship is honestly the most lingering. If there is physical abuse, there is without question mental/verbal abuse happening as well. And those 'invisible wounds' need tending sometimes long after we've extricated ourselves from the relationship.

[BlueIris]

33. 'Invisible wounds' indeed.

Good for you for getting away from yours, btw. That's hard to do, as the resources in this thread demonstrate.

[Eloriel]

37. Psychological damage

the psychological damage done in ANY abusive relationship is honestly the most lingering.

And the most damaging. When psychologists talk about any child abuse -- ANY child abuse (including "just" neglect), they'll often point out that underyling any abuse is emotional abuse, and that's the real harm. Physical abuse isn't as harmful in and of itself (unless it maims or kills, of course), it's the emotional abuse inherent in the betrayal by the person who is supposed to be your caretaker which is the most harmful.

I can't see why it would be any different for adults. If people are "supposed" to love you, and they treat you like shit instead, what is the message there? It's: YOU are unloveable, UNWORTHY -- the very same emotionally damaging (crippling) message children get from THEIR abusers.

I am a little uncomfortable seeming to compare women with children, but really, the dynamics are the same. And they'd be the same too if women were the primary abusers of men.

[Eloriel]

36. Yeah, I was going to say ..

BWAHAHA! My kind of book!

Sounds about right to me. :rofl:

[BlueIris]

39. *&^%#!!!!

Ahem. It's been that kind of weekend.

[spooky3]

40. Backlash by Susan Faludi

Especially the part where she gives a feminist perspective on books like
"Women Who Love Too Much", which may sound insightful and appealing when you first read them. But Faludi shows how, under the guise of helping women take charge, these books place too much blame women for trying to maintain relationships with men who behave badly rather than ask the question, "why are there so many men who behave badly out there?"

[BlueIris]

47. Here is one final issue I am still struggling with, and I'd love feedback:

For those who have been in relationships with abusers and anti-feminists and both: how do you deal with the fact that you will never get an apology from the abuser for the damage the abuse did to your life? I actually haven't found this addressed in any of materials recommended to me so far, and for some reason, it did not come up with my last therapist. This has been a major obstacle for me in trying to get past the remaining residual anger surrounding this painful situation.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

48. Here's what I know

from my own life:

When you surrender the idea of getting an apology, when you are able to make it no longer matter to you, an apology will come.

It may take years, but it will come.

[lukasahero]

49. Hi

I've been thinking about this since you asked it yesterday and wish I had an answer I think you'd like to hear. Unfortunately, my answer is only this: forget about it, it's not going to happen. Be angry, rant, rage, scream, cry, talk to people who understand your anger and then, ultimately, learn to let it go.

The problem is, at least as it happened in my life, the guy in question to this day thinks he did nothing wrong. He thinks I was mean to him for leaving, for not loving him any more, for wanting more for my life. As a result, I have come to realize he will never apologize because he doesn't think he should, he thinks I should apologize to him. (Even though, I actually did apologize for hurting him by leaving.) Seven years later, I know he is wrong and in the end, that's all I have.

I am still afraid of him (saw him in court once) and still have nightmares but I have come to accept that he will never apologize. Would an apology ease the nightmares? I doubt it.

I guess I have just reached a certain point in my life where I've come to understand that what I would like from people isn't always going to happen and I can't change that. My ex will always be an abuser unless and until he realizes his actions are abusive. I left because I realized I couldn't change that. I couldn't stop it and the only thing I could do was live my own life in a way that was right for me. His actions, his thoughts, his life, no longer control me. (Remember, that's what abuse is all about anyway so if you're waiting for an apology from him, he's still controlling you!)

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear. I wish there were a panacea that made this whole thing easier for you. I just don't think there is one. It will take time and patience with yourself to let this go. In the meantime, keep busy, treat yourself gently, immerse yourself in things you love. It helps. Try not to dwell on his hate and abuse. Rehashing the past, while it's inevitable to a degree, isn't where the solution lies. Be proud of yourself for leaving, for taking control of your life back, concentrate on you and your bright future free from abuse. It does get better.

PS - There's always the idea that the universe makes all things equal and he will come back in life as a woman in some painfully restrictive society to learn what he didn't understand this time around. I don't recommend hastening that process though. ;)