"Hot Chicks of Occupy Wall Street"

[redqueen]

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/19/hot_chicks_of_occupy_wall_street_creator_defends_film/singleton/


I don't know if anyone has seen the thread in GD, but I'd rather discuss it here if that's ok.

I didn't read all the comments under the piece, but what I did read made me so sad. There are apparently extremely few people who don't share the viewpoint that women are the sex class. There is little to no acknowledgment of the fact that objectifying women constantly, almost everywhere, might just possibly be a problem. No ackholwedgment that it causes any harm at all.

I refuse to watch the clip. I've read that it's great and beautiful empowered women and blah blah blah. I don't care. I'm sick to death of being expected to think that women being used as a form of advertising is no big deal. It is a big deal. It is dehumanization and it happens ubiquitously... so thoroughly that most people don't even notice. It isn't the only method by which we are all reminded that women are the other, and the sex class... but it seems by far to be one of the more insidious ones.

When I read what this guy said about some of his feminist critics (not the quotes in the piece, someone referred to it in the comments below it), I literally felt sick. This is how most liberal men think? Yes, most. There's not very many men or women bothering to say anything negative about this. It's all just lighthearted fun. Nothing to see here, move along.

[seabeyond]

1. slut walk, breast cancer titty ads, hot chick ows video, peta, iranian cleavage causing eq.....

none of it has to do with a womans sexuality. all of it uses women sexuality to draw attention to cause.

then goes into the story.

the only way a woman or her issues are presented to world is reducing her to her sexuality.

and there were women on the thread that validate it. saying, it is ok because it caught peoples attention.

[redqueen]

2. Most people just don't get it.

It's encouraging to read the opinions of the people who get it, though, it really is. I just need to stick to those places because there's no point in discussing it with anyone else. You just get drowned out by everyone who has already internalized the dominant message.

Stuff like this is encouraging: http://fengi.livejournal.com/1299655.html

[seabeyond]

3. lady in the living room, whore in the bedroom

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2161589&mesg_id=2161589

i am so mad about this. i think this is exactly where the problem lies, that a man feels he has the right to say this out loud to female gender. i read it as a repression of behavior to follow society dictates in public and a service in the bed. everything about the whore is to provide service to the man. there is nothing exception about the prostitute except expect nothing and allow whatever to her body without complaint.

most men have no interest in the prostitute. in the selling, there is an agreement of a shallow interaction only.

it takes ownership of the womans sexuality and once again, gives that ownership to men. why can't a woman just have fun in the bedroom, owning her sexuality, without any title of slut or whore or whatever.

i dont think it trite, cute, or nonharmful. there is so much more underlining this that i am not good at articulating

how often do we hear anyone lecture man on his behavor in the bedroom, or outside the bedroom.

just another control and for this senator to feel that it was ok to say, women should be so angry.

[redqueen]

4. Women should be so angry about so many things.

Or not angry, really. Angry is a natural response, but it's not necessary. Awareness, though, that is necessary. And I see precious little of that.

Did you see Miss Representation? I hope you did. I know you'd enjoy it. :)

[CrispyQ]

5. I just finished watching it on the Oprah channel.

It was one of the best documentaries I've ever seen. It should be required viewing for everyone over 13. I want to see it again.

http://missrepresentation.org/

[seabeyond]

7. thank you. i am going to look into the site

and see how i can see it. from what you are saying, i am thinking (after watching) i may need to give a heads up to the middle school principle for all the 8th grade, lol

wouldnt that be nice

or would it

as i said, i havent seen it

[seabeyond]

6. i havent. i dont even know if i get oprah channel. i dont watch tv, really

but i have been following the thread and it sounds like something i want to watch. and i want to gather those i love around, both boys and girls and a couple men and women i know, to watch. so they really grasp why this is such an issue for me and the health of the younger ones i love.

it is like you say, people really need... yes, need... to be aware how much conditioning is going on and the so very unhealthy perspective it gives them that will last a lifetime and interfere with their ability to find happiness, contentment, a balanced and grounded life.

asking a lot out of a program? we need to say it outloud. and there will be a ripple.

this is not good for either gender. what happens in a relationship if you have a woman who is not authentic to self. life will be hell for the man, too. even if we say it is not about man. what happens to a woman, if a man does not know how to respect a woman or see as a person. she will not respect him in turn, and there will be problems.

what i liked, in that thread on the program is the number of men that without quibble said, need to watch.

[CrispyQ]

8. There is a segment devoted to how our culture of objectifying women affects boys & men.

I really want to see it again because I don't remember it perfectly, but in one scene, a woman was quoted as saying she felt badly for the men in our society because they are basically emotionally crippled starting at a very young age.

It's a remarkable film. I had not heard about it & was just lazing around on a Saturday morning. I missed the first 20 minutes. I was surfing the channels & there was Condoleezza Rice, so I had to check out what she was saying. Then I looked at the listing & had to watch. Wish I'd put a tape in.

[seabeyond]

9. i saw a study a year or so ago, saying showing men picture of woman in bikini

they saw it from the "tools" part of the brain. things that are used. when a picture of a mom or a sister or clothed, they saw the person... well see,... as a person. a human. lol. not a thing.

it feels more and more to me, the men are looking at women as a thing. i grew up in calif, in the 70's on a swimteam. both boy and girls, we wore lycra swimsuits. showed all. no reaction. people didnt act all weird. us kids didnt act all weird. men (the fathers) were not struggling looking at our tits, or our crotch that often made things very visible. nor were the moms looking at the packages of guys. and especially out of the pool and wet, it was all pretty clear.

we didnt sexualize every single person all the friggin time.

if a parent behaved the way adults do today, they would have had every other parents on their happy ass.

i get lectured about naked. nothing wrong with naked. prude, ect... pearl clutcher.

what it is today is not about naked. it is about objectifying.

in my day, when we skinny dipped, we all took off our clothes and played.

today, the boys gather in a group, clap hands, jump on tippy toes and yell boobies, boobies, as the girls perform for them

that isnt naked. bring back naked and i am for it.

make it ALL about male sexuality, gratification, entertainment... then female is being left with less...

[mzteris]

12. interesting...

my boys grew up in a dance studio, most of the boys I know (though admittedly not all) who dance have such a different relationship with females.

Maybe because they're used to seeing them "scantily clad" they don't think of the female body as a thing to be used. They appreciate beauty still, but it's not like they get all hot and bothered because a girl is wearing something "revealing".

[seabeyond]

13. that is how i grew up. it was the best of adolscents. so healthy

and sooooo fun, lol. i dont want to take away the fun. further, i think the youth is missing out of the fun. because one gender is preforming, so it really is not about her. and the other gender is taking. what is that crap and why do our girls allow it.

[redqueen]

14. If it's the study I think it is...

Then it wasn't all men whose brains reacted that way. It was mostly men who held sexist views.

Sorry, it was only those who held hostile sexist views, and not "benevolent" sexist views.

I love how CNN goes to some effort to preface the results with the claim that men just can't help it.

So very, very fucking tired of this shit.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-19/health/women.bikinis.objects_1_bikini-strip-clubs-sexism?_s=PM:HEALTH

[laconicsax]

10. ARRRRGH!

:banghead:

[redqueen]

11. I'm sorry...

:hug:

Try this instead. It's much, much better than the Salon piece or the discussion in GD.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/10/19/steven-greenstreet-proves-hes-definitely-not-a-misogynist-by-making-rape-jokes/

[BrendaBrick]

15. I watched it...........

I think it could have been so much better to keep the music and the slow motion effects....but added EVERYONE, including men and families, old and young alike. I think it could have made for a very nice "warm and fuzzy" video for the movement as a whole by including EVERYONE!

[redqueen]

16. I only caught the last 1/2 hour

so I think I might have missed the part that you're talking about.

I can't wait to see the whole thing.

[BrendaBrick]

17. Oh, I was talking about the Hot Chicks video

I'm trying to find out when "Miss Representation" will be airing again...

[redqueen]

18. Oh oops! *blush*

Got confused there. :blush:

I won't watch this crap at all. I'm disgusted by it.

And no, there's no way he would have included everyone. His whole reason for making it was to show the "hot chicks". I really wish I had only ever read about it on feministe.

[seabeyond]

19. after reading articles about the guy, the intent wasnt the protest or warm and fuzzy

but solely about putting up tents....

[redqueen]

20. There are tons of brogressives

who have no problem with a movement like this being as misogynist as any other, and plenty of women think it's not a problem at all.

It's fine to use women as decorations for these people. Just not a big deal at all... it's how it's always been, so of course, logically speaking, we can expect no better.
:sarcasm: