Okay seriously, what do y'all think about Hillary Clinton?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

I'm pretty active with the local Dems. There's not a whole lot of grassroots support for Sen. Clinton here. It seems that most of it comes from women, older women in particular. I had a conversation recently with a longtime activist who freely admitted to me that Clinton was probably her last chance to see a woman President in her lifetime, given that she's in her 70s. Honestly, when I think about it, it's an unassailable argument. These women have worked hard for women's rights and reproductive freedom all their lives and they deserve it, IMO.

For my part, since I'm still in my 30s, it's not as much of a consideration for me and I've got some SERIOUS misgivings about another Clinton presidency. Clearly, she's a corporatist just like her husband. Furthermore, this article in Mother Jones discusses how big a role her religion plays in her philosophies and political worldview. This is a serious problem for me, as I believe that organized religion is the most foully pernicious form of manipulation and coercion ever conceived. The major religions of the world are patriarchal and misogynist to the core, as well as promoting and justifying gross economic inequality. The article discusses how Hillary Clinton subscribes to a Calvinist doctrine, which posits that some people are specially chosen by God for salvation and grace. Also, despite her high pro-choice ratings, she voted in favor of keeping language in the Workplace Religious Freedom act that would allow pharmacists to refuse to give medication to patients if it conflicts with their religious beliefs!

So what do you guys say? Have you decided who you are supporting yet?

[ismnotwasm]

1. Good question

NOW has endorsed her. I'm thinking it's because of her gender. She's done some good stuff, I suppose-- I don't know her congressional record very well. I do know she is playing the political game she has to play, but I always thought of her husband as republican lite, and I had placed her in the same category. Pandering to religion doesn't surprise me one bit, practically, the religious right HAS to be countered. Doing the "I'm a religious Democrat" Seems to be all the rage among all candidates, and she is no exception. I think she'll save her political ass before she endorses an agenda that is truly pro-woman. And pro-woman is pro human being. When I read the threads of woe infesting GD lately, I want to say "It's the patriarchy stupid." Imagine how THAT would go over. So we have a powerful women in contention, in the game, but playing by the same fucked up rules, that leads to a sort of combo libertarian/quasi-conservative /fascist corporate ideology.

I've always leaned toward socialism, not entirely, but enough. Until 2000 when even I could smell the shit coming down the road, I voted for the Socialist Party in national politics, sometimes Democrats in local (I tend to be a realist) Until 2000, I was one of the "doesn't make any difference" crowd, so I voted my closest political heart, "throwing my vote away" Until 2000. When I saw what fucking Holy Ronald Reagan had allowed to fester and infect American politics come to a disgusting purulent head. I started voting Democrat. Held my nose, and voted Democrat every time. I found sites like DU and found more in common with Democrats than I ever knew.

So I haven't made up my mind. Senator Clinton disappoints, but so do they all right now, with the double-speak religious bullshit that ignores the absolute necessity of total and complete separation of church and state. I think it should illegal, or a least considered in very poor taste, for any politician to use religion as part of a campaign.

If Senator Clinton is elected, I'm assuming that we can expect sensible pro-choice court appointments, the repeal of the Global Gag rule, interventions in areas of genocide like Darfur, the end of War as a Just Dandy Solution, proper and adequate funding for schools, a major overhaul of our prison systems, (Prisons are corporate fascism personified)the end of the ill-conceived "war on drugs", Universal health care, Real science back in vogue including Real interventions for global warming, deforestation, and endangered species, as well as any attempt to teach "Intelligent design" in classrooms laughed out of court. Hell, I'd like to see the ERA back "on the table" and national laws protecting Gay marriage. --you know the basic stuff that indicates our "leaders" are real human beings. I hope I don't assume too much, and I'm very afraid I do.

[Katherine Brengle]

2. I'm struggling with this.

She's not on my wavelength politically, but there is a part of me that just wants her to win so we can get it over with and stop wondering "When will we have a woman President?" and "Is America ready for a woman President?" and the rest of the crap.

[bliss_eternal]

3. Mixed feelings....

...about her and about her nomination.

She was one of my sheroes for being the ONLY person in New York to help many women accosted during a huge event in Central Park, several years ago. She fought for the women AFTER many were unsuccessful in getting the NYPD to even file reports for them (it's fuzzy but I think some NYPD were present at the event, and merely watched). (I'd offer links and an event name, but it's way early for me and I'm not fully coherent yet.lol--Time permitting I'll return later to do so. :))

I feel that women's issues matter to her but unfortunately a lot of what's important seems to get lost in the politics (and the inherent game playing of that system). Too many times I've seen her pander to the right and "the boys" which I don't like seeing. I'm VERY concerned about how the glbt community would fare with her, considering how she tends to pander to the right (and the religious issues).

A part of me is pleased to see such progress as this (a woman even being considered this way)and feels it's worthy of some sort of celebration. Another BIGGER part of me is (sadly, but honestly) fearful for her life, and hopes she does NOT get the nomination. That part of me feels the same way about Obama--happy to see the progress, but don't want to see the man or his family hurt.

Maybe I've seen too much footage from the King and Kennedy events. Or maybe I've seen too much pain and sadness in the eyes of too many that lived through that horrible period. I don't know. I just know the ugliness of that era is very much alive and well in this country. We are reminded of it everytime a republican returns to the white house. Suddenly the country takes a few steps backward, and the hateful of the world feel safe in letting their bigotry flags fly high.

It's interesting (and telling), that the women you spoke of aren't excited about her. :(

I'm not open to discussing Hilary C. (or Obama) in the main forums, and don't. I feel safer sharing here, so I responded.
I'm kinda' loopy right now, so I hope my response makes sense. :blush:

[ThomCat]

4. She is far too corrupt for me to support.

I will vote for her if she's our candidate, but only because she will be marginally better than a republican. My problem is that it's not a big margin. Most of the other dem candidates would be better.

When you take the candidate quizes, or look at her stated positions it doesn't look like she's all that different from the other candidates, but there is absolutely nothing in her history as a senator that makes me think she'll actually deliver anything progressive. She caters to corporate wish-lists and supports free trade. She votes against the poor and the needy far too often. She's too much of a hawk. She's surrounding herself with neo-con pollsters, PR people, and Rupert Murdoch. She's an evangelical christian and she thinks we need more religion in politics.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Very well put, ThomCat.

I'm going to paraphrase your post as my response to anyone who asks me why I don't care for Clinton. You pretty much nailed it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. i think no matter who the president, the will have to compromise with the right wing

i find neither obama nor edwards particularly more liberal than hrc. i am supporting her only because i find most of the attacks against her to be fairly sexist.

[Ellen Forradalom]

6. Female Hubert Humphrey to Obama's Bobby Kennedy

In 2008 as in 1968, the two positions arising in a time of an unpopular quagmire of a war.

I think she is extremely sharp and would make a terrific President. I need to investigate her health plan before I can weigh in on that topic, although the idea of requiring individuals to get health insurance like auto insurance gives me heartburn. Her Iraq war resolution vote gives me qualms too. But none this should be seriously surprising; she started out as a Goldwater Republican, and she's always been rather square.

[cally]

8. I think HRC is far too corporatist

and unwilling/unable to take large risks politically. I believe Edwards is the only one who is likely to pursue populist policies and push for some controls on corporate power. I don't like some of Obama's message about finding a middle ground but I'm impressed by his intelligence and activism. I believe all three of them are very similar overall.

I think HRC will win the nomination. Obama is unwilling to go on the attack and is stuck in the polls and Edwards is a long shot. Part of me is thrilled that we'll have a woman President but the other part of me is dismayed that we missed a chance to move the country left.

[defendandprotect]

9. Clinton came on strong -- "Two for the price of one!" -- in the beginning . . ..

and still came on to try to do something about health care in a corporate-way....
She got knocked down both times --
I think she's only going to play the game --

Didn't know about the religious stuff in your 2nd paragraph....worrisome for me, as well.

No -- I'm no longer a Hillary fan -- and I think Edwards or Kucinich would be better --

I'd really prefer others -- Feingold/Jane Harmon ticket, maybe?

The problem with all of this is that corporations aren't going to give us candidates who are going to do anything but keep corporate-rule going ....

We have to find a way to break out of this ---

And, I don't think it will be with Hillary --

However, we're under great threat of Global Warming and nature may be making decisions for us that we can't foresee right now --