An atheist's prayer

[varkam]

I've probably pissed some of you off before if you've ever ventured into R/T. Traditionally, I've been pretty vocal about my atheism (and anti-theism, to boot). You are probably wondering what I'm doing here. Your guess is as good as mine.

Most of you probably don't know me well. I'm 23 years old, and I've been an atheist for probably the last seven or eight years. In my younger days, I used to be Baptist. I've also been battling addiction for the past year, or the past ten, depending on how you define "battling"; I hit bottom last October.

I've always kind of liked my atheism, as if I had something figured out. So imagine my surprise when I found myself today, on my knees, praying. I have no idea what God is, or even if God is. I don't know if this means I can't be an atheist anymore, or if it means I'm a Christian, or what. I guess I can worry about labels later.

I don't know why praying occurred to me, I guess it was an old reflex that never quite died. Suffice it to say, I don't think I'm in danger of joining up with the Baptists again, or any denomination for that matter. I guess that's something that's going to take time to figure out.

I guess I wanted to post this here to see if anyone else has gone through this before, to ask for advice. If not, then thank you for reading in any event.

Note: I cross-posted this to the Christian group, but I thought it would be wise to post it here, as well.

[NMDemDist2]

1. hey vark

I'm not a "Christian" Baptist or otherwise :shrug:

never have been, never plan on being one either. My religious training as a child was completely non existent.

but I have a deep spiritual belief now, thanks to the 12 steps. my "higher power" started out as an invisible white rabbit I affectionately called "Harvey" who rode in my vehicle with me to and from meetings who I cussed out on an almost daily basis.

Now I just call my HP "BOB"

Big
Omnipotent
Being

I don't have to understand it, I just do it.

:hi:

[varkam]

3. I think that's my hang-up

I feel like I *have* to understand it. That's sort of my mode of operation. I want to understand everything. I guess I should try to focus on letting go of that - and just accept my own ignorance in the face of works bigger than myself.

[NMDemDist2]

4. belief plus action equals faith

if you can belief that we believe and take some actions we suggest, the results of those actions will lead you to faith.

here's a parable I like to explain it (stolen from Joe & Charlie's Big Book study)

It was explained to me the difference between belief and faith. Belief is something some one tells you causing you to take an action, faith is what comes as a result of the action you took.

for example: you move to a new town and your car needs work. you ask your neighbor if they know a good mechanic. "Sure," says the neighbor "Take it over to Joe's. He's fast and reasonable."

So based on the BELIEF your neighbor knows the neighborhood better than you, you take your car to Joe's. sure enough, Joe gets the car done right on time and for a reasonable cost. so the next time you need a mechanic, based on your experience and the actions you have taken in the past, you have FAITH that Joe will fix your car right.

so in the 2nd step, I just have to believe and start taking the actions suggested in the Big Book. The results of my willingness to act will bring me to faith.

[varkam]

5. Cognitive dissonance

There's a theory in social psychology that holds we form our beliefs as a result of ad hoc justification for our actions - at least sometimes. We do one thing that is at odds with our beliefs, and so we alter our beliefs to justify the action. Before I would of had no reason to pray, but now I justify it as a means of getting in touch with my higher power.

I just read a book on that so it was no the brain. I think you're right, though. As the old slogan goes, the body comes and the mind will follow.

[NMDemDist2]

6. I think I've mentioned this to you before

but the book by Emmett Fox "Sermon on the Mount" really helped this old atheist with the whole "spiritual" aspect

:pals:

[varkam]

7. I'm not sure if you did or not

But if so, then it stuck this time. I'll look it up. Thanks :)

[wildeyed]

2. My concept of God is the unity and balance of the universe.

I have no concept of a personal God, but I do pray, mostly to get myself back into balance.

I am an admirer of Jesus, not a follower. For a long time I thought I might become Christian, but I can't wrap my mind around the ideology. I might change my mind tomorrow and that would be ok, too. For now I attend the Unitarian church sporadically and hang out with my Buddhist yoga friends.

I was never an atheist or had any particular animosity toward organized religion or the concept of God, so my situation is different from yours. I do think taking some time to reflect and figure it out, like you said, is a good policy. You can try attending different places of worship to see if they feel like a good fit.

[Kajsa]

8. Hi Varkam!

From what you're describing, it sounds like
you were trying to get in contact with something/someone
greater than yourself.

That's all there is to it!

You can call it prayer, meditation, whatever makes
you most comfortable ( We alki/addicts ain't gonna stick
with something we detest).

What you did was a simple act with profound strength.
It has been around for a long , long time.
No doubt the first man/woman did something similar ever
since Homo sapiens have been around.

Don't let it freak you out.
It's simple, humanistic and very positive.

:hi:

[RaRa]

9. Here's a 12 Step list for atheists

Last night I voiced (again but at a new meeting) my ambivalence about religion/God. A fellow who shared my views said he had a new list he got in rehab. This isn't it (he didn't have it with him). But I found this on the web today:

1. We accept the fact that all of our efforts to stop drinking have failed.

2. We believe that we must turn elsewhere for help.

3. We turn to our fellow men and women, particularly those who have struggled with the same problem.

4. We have made a list of the situations in which we are most likely to drink.

5. We ask our friends to help us avoid those situations.

6. We are ready to accept the help they give us.

7. We earnestly hope that they will help.

8. We have made a list of the persons we have harmed and to whom we hope to make amends.

9. We shall do all we can to make amends, in any way which will not cause further harm.

10. We will continue to make such list and revise them as needed.

11. We appreciate what our friends have done and are doing to help us.

12. We, in turn, are ready to help others who may come to us in the same way.

There was also a great article in the AA "Grapevine" written by a old timer atheist. It helped me get past the stuff I couldn't stomach.

[NMDemDist2]

10. very nice, thanks for posting

:hi:

[FloridaJudy]

11. On-again/off-again atheist here

I've put off replying to this because it required a lot of thought on my part. I too tend to reject any pat notions about "God". Frankly, it creeps me out every time a meeting ends with the Lord's Prayer. My own conception of a Higher Power definitely is not an "our father" who guides every action. That Old White Guy on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is not someone I trust. Too much damage has been done in his name.

I do, however, feel like there is something out there that is bigger than me. I resist calling it "God" because of my unpleasant associations with that title. I think it was that feeling that drew me to Buddhism, which is a non-theistic religion. While there are a host of Buddhist "gods", they are not so much treated as actual deities, rather as avatars or embodiments of desirable qualities. I'm become rather fond of Quan Yin, worshiped throughout Asia as the embodiment of Compassion.

So while it helps me to visualize "God" as Quan Yin, am I really praying to a little old Asian lady? Probably not. What I'm trying to do is invoke the feeling of compassion both for myself and for others. I just know that when I do pray to her, I feel more connected to the world around me and more likely to speak and act gently.

It still irks me when others suggest I "get down on my knees and pray". That's a very Christian idea. I feel more comfortable praying cross-legged on my butt. Others may feel even more comfortable sitting and swaying back and forth, others crouched with their foreheads pressed to the floor, and some feel closest to their particular deities while dancing or singing.

And sometimes I think my tendency to stick labels on stuff amuses my Higher Power immensely.

[varkam]

12. That's been my thinking exactly for the past few days.

Thank you for that post.

[SPKrazy]

13. I don't have any idea what i am either

i just believe in some kind of power greater than me that seems to be in everything... and to be everything

Yeah, we've gone around in R/T a long time ago, I've mellowed, you're life has changed, one never knows what happens.

I have been all over the map with my beliefs and that's okay I guess.

Good to see you, and whatever works, use it!

:hi: