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AAAAARRRRRRGH! I think I'm related to BUSH!!!!!!

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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:10 AM
Original message
AAAAARRRRRRGH! I think I'm related to BUSH!!!!!!
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

My great-great-great-granduncle, Elmer Carter, married a woman named Elizabeth Bush. They were married in Springport, NY in 1840. She is likely the granddaughter of Timothy Bush, who is (I found out this morning) the great-great-great-great-great-grandfather of:


Ever since I started my genealogy quest, I feared the day I'd discover that I was a distant relative of some despot. That day is here.:cry:
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Only by marriage, though.
Could be worse...my 7th great-grandfather was a Caleb Carman, born in Maryland about 1710; his great-grandfather (and so my 10th great-grandfather) was evidently a John Carman who was one of the earliest English settlers of Long Island...this John Carman is George W Bush's 9th great-grandfather, which makes Bush my 9th cousin once removed.

And I dare say that if you trace enough collateral lines, you'll find that you're related to a surprising number of rogues, villains, and generally unpleasant individuals: I've discovered that the branches of my family tree include people like the Confederate general who was in charge of the Andersonville prison camp, the Supreme Court Chief Justice who wrote the majority opinion in the Dred Scott case, and a notorious slave-trader and pirate who was responsible for some of the earliest massacres of natives by whites in North America; after all of those, I'm at the point where finding I've yet another unsavoury distant relative doesn't really surprise me too much.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think we're ALL related. My mom and dad, i recently discovered,
were 10th cousins. They both had New England roots.

This never turned up in decades of research on both sides of the family, but thanks to computers and my Family Tree Maker software and the internet, i am uncovering all sorts of interesting stuff.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah...
I've read that any two people with colonial New England ancestry going back to the 1600's are likely to be related within the degree of 10th or 12th cousin. It seems to be less likely in the case of someone with southern (Maryland and Virginia) ancestry, partly because there were many more immigrants to VA and MD than to New England; I haven't found any such relationship between my parents yet (no New England ancestry, that I know of; my father's ancestry is mostly early Maryland and Virginia Protestant, and my mother's largely early Maryland Catholic), but I HAVE found marriages between distant cousins on both sides of the family, and my mother's paternal grandparents were eighth cousins.

And even if there's no blood relationship, there's likely to be a relationship by marriage, especially among people descended from specific ancestor groups (I was kind of surprised to find that I'm related by marriage to Jefferson Davis, Abraham Lincoln, Robert E. Lee and Ulysses Grant...which is a pretty good illustration of the idea that 'everyone's related', I think).
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. My Yankee ggreatgrandparents were 5th cousins.
We're fairly certain that they weren't even aware of it. Consanguinity is very common if the families stayed in a relative small geographical area through the 19th century, which theirs did.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. what is related by marriage?
Like the OP's example? I do not consider that to be any relation at all. The in-law is just an in-law. Distant relatives of in-laws are no relations of mine, although it is kinda funny that I can have six generations of ancestry, or more, on some people who are no relation to me, except by marriage. I have this curiousity though. If I have two people named Kelsey in my database I want to know how they are related on the Kelsey side, so I try to include the in-law's parents. Then this builds on itself if it turns out I already have their grandparents in my records because an aunt or uncle also married into my family.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No...
'related by marriage' means 'married to someone I'm related to', as I use it (in this case a more or less distant cousin--Jefferson Davis' 1st wife is my 4th cousin 5x removed; U.S. Grant's wife my 5th cousin 5x removed, etc.) When I trace a collateral line I don't include people I'm NOT related to by marriage unless there's a connection to another marriage betwen the same families in an earlier generation.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. I have a few 1st cousin marriages that took place in Virginia: McCool
and Wright lines.
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Montauk6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. You're related to...???
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 11:48 AM by Montauk6
WOULD YOU GET ON THE HORN AND TELL YER CUZ TO COOL IT ALREADY??????

;)
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I did, but he was snockered off his ass and kept calling me "Jimmy Bath.."
:)
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. That is the danger of genealogy...
I discovered some years back that I'm related to Pat Robertson.

:hide:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. Today I went to the wayback machine on Ancestry.com
Edited on Tue Sep-26-06 06:50 PM by kestrel91316
(One World Tree) and traced some of Bush's lines way back, and was very uncomfortable with the number of old New England family names we seem to have in common......................ICK!

I don't want to know ANY MORE than that.

But I also found out my marginally trailer-trash great-grandmother was a descendant of Henry VII Tudor (yep, King of England). That, in addition to her known descent from Edward I.

Love that wayback machine.............
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Did you find any
Prudden, Terrill, or Peck ancestors? Bush and I share the Rev. Peter Prudden and his wife,Johanna, as our 8th great grandparents(ugh!) I'm also related to Lady GaGa.

All of these relationships are through my mother's family. Good thing's she's already dead, 'cause I'm sure this would kill her!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-18-07 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. I am too,
though a common ancestor named Fletcher who lived in New England in the 1600s. But look on the bright side--I'm sure you are related to other folks you are proud of!
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Mr. McD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-22-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. I have a George W. Bush in my family tree
Fortunately not a blood connection to me, and not a line I will ever research.
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Cybergata Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I unfortunately share some ancestors with the Twig
...but then some of my puritan New England ancestors came from all those evil bastards who ruled over Europe in the medieval times. Seems like the twig hasn't evolved much further from those medieval ancestors of ours. The funny thing is that the grandmother I inherited these ancestors from was a die hard democrat, and some of her children leaned way to the left. My grandfather always voted Republican, and my dear grandmother very quietly cancelled his vote out by voting Democrat. This grandfather lost everything in the great Stock market Crash, died shortly after, and my grandmother was proved correct in her beliefs. I was about to say "laughed last," but she was left jobless, dirt poor and with my mother still to raise. There is no laughter about that situation. It is no wonder that some of her children moved further left toward Socialism.
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IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have a guy that went by "GW"...
Which I overlook when marveling on his line...

I also have pictures of a great-great grandfather that looks remarkably like George W Bush..but I love the pictures just the same!
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's ok. I supposedly am, too. But the consolation might be that
I am a direct descendant of Geoffrey Chaucer on both sides of my family, lol.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's very cool, kestrel. According to my grandmother, we are supposedly related to Martha
Washington, but I've never found any evidence of it, anywhere. And I wouldn't worry about Cooley Hurd, since I've heard that Bush's actual cousins disown him, LOL, actually started a website on the topic, but he sure has my sympathy, as well as yours...


Rhiannon:hi:
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-29-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. I probably am too
I mean, I'm northern European ... ;)

But who I am related to is someone much better, I've just learned from someone in England with whom I share a greatx4 grandmother (me by first husband, her by second; met her on line through name correction notes I posted at Ancestry) who has access to all the local records and isn't afraid to spend days digging in them.

I posted this at the Canada forum because it's a local-interest sort of thing, a civics lesson in itself, but it's also a fine genealogy tale. I have to say, given that constitutional law is the stuff of my daily bread, and all that rights and freedoms stuff is very dear to my heart, I'm thrilled!

______________________


Anybody here know Viscount Sankey? Well, be not embarrassed. *I* was, that I didn't recognize the name when I was sent an email about him this week. I should know these things; it's actually kinda my job. I'm enormously embarrassed. And not just because ... but wait, more on that after.

The email I was sent explained how Viscount Sankey was the one who wrote the line about "The Golden Thread that runs through English law" that Rumpole was so fond of quoting at the Bailey -- about the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof and all that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolmington_v._DPP
In articulating the ruling, Viscount Sankey made his famous "Golden thread" speech:

Throughout the web of the English Criminal Law one golden thread is always to be seen, that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt subject to what I have already said as to the defence of insanity and subject also to any statutory exception. If, at the end of and on the whole of the case, there is a reasonable doubt, created by the evidence given by either the prosecution or the prisoner, as to whether the prisoner killed the deceased with a malicious intention, the prosecution has not made out the case and the prisoner is entitled to an acquittal. No matter what the charge or where the trial, the principle that the prosecution must prove the guilt of the prisoner is part of the common law of England and no attempt to whittle it down can be entertained. When dealing with a murder case the Crown must prove (a) death as the result of a voluntary act of the accused and (b) malice of the accused.

But after getting the email, I googled a bit more, and smacked my forehead and hung my head in shame at my negligent memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sankey,_1st_Viscount_Sankey
Several of his judgments in the House of Lords have landmark statements of law. Of particular note are his statements in Edwards v. Canada (Attorney General) in which a case was held about women being allowed in the senate. In the end, women were allowed being senators.

He wrote the decision in the Persons Case -- the Famous Five and all that. (That was back when cases could be appealed from the Supreme Court of Canada to the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords as the court of last resort -- not the case for many decades now, but rather a good thing it was at the time.)

And not only that -- I just don't seem to have realized the extent to which our whole Canadian universe revolves around that case, completely apart from the question of women's equality itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Canada_%28Attorney_General%29
Edwards v. Canada (Attorney General) <1930> A.C. 124 – also known as the Persons Case – is a famous Canadian/British constitutional case where it was first decided that women were eligible to sit in the Senate. The case, put forward by the Famous Five, went all the way to the Privy Council and was a landmark case in many respects.

Opinion of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council

Viscount Sankey
, writing for the committee, found that the meaning of "qualified persons" could be read broadly to include women, reversing the decision of the Supreme Court. The landmark ruling was handed down on October 29, 1929.

Living tree doctrine

To arrive that his conclusion, Sankey proposed an entirely new approach to constitutional interpretation that has since become one of the core principles of constitutional law in Canada.
The British North America Act planted in Canada a living tree capable of growth and expansion within its natural limits. The object of the Act was to grant a Constitution to Canada. Like all written constitutions it has been subject to development through usage and convention.

Their Lordships do not conceive it to be the duty of this Board -- it is certainly not their desire -- to cut down the provisions of the Act by a narrow and technical construction, but rather to give it a large and liberal interpretation so that the Dominion to a great extent, but within certain fixed limits, may be mistress in her own house, as the provinces to a great extent, but within certain fixed limits, are mistresses in theirs.
From this the approach became known as the living tree doctrine which requires "large and liberal" interpretation.

Viscount Sankey invented the "living tree", along with the large-and-liberal approach to constitutional interpretation. (All of which I work with daily ...)

And this is why we have, oh, same-sex marriage and minority language rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_tree_doctrine
In Canadian law, the living tree doctrine is a doctrine of constitutional interpretation that says that a constitution is organic and must be read in a broad and liberal manner so as to adapt it to the changing times.

This is known as the Doctrine of Progressive Interpretation. This means that the Constitution cannot be interpreted in the same way as an ordinary statute. Rather, it must be read within the context of society to ensure that it adapts and reflects changes. If constitutional interpretation adheres to the Framer's Intent and remains rooted in the past, the Constitution would not be reflective of society and eventually fall into disuse.
The "frozen concepts" reasoning runs contrary to one of the most fundamental principles of Canadian constitutional interpretation: that our Constitution is a living tree which, by way of progressive interpretation, accommodates and addresses the realities of modern life. (from the same-sex marriage reference)

Of course, the right wing in the US hates us for our living tree:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/050718/18john.htm
It's almost impossible to read much commentary about the role of the courts without stumbling across arguments for more judge-made law, often couched in fancy rhetoric about "a living Constitution" or the alleged need to read the Constitution "in light of societal needs and evolving legal policy." (U.S. liberals aren't unique: In approving gay marriage, Canada's Supreme Court said, "Our Constitution is a living tree, which, by way of progressive interpretation, accommodates and addresses the realities of modern life.")


So ... talk about yer civics lessons, eh?


But no; remember, this thread is about me.

I am the great-great-great-great-great granddaughter of Viscount Sankey's great-grandparents. My greatx4 grandmother and his grandfather were brother and sister.

So he is my second cousin four times removed. (I think.) Different generation, same set of ancestors.

Oh, he was a Labour peer (not hereditary) -- also served as Lord Chancellor under the Labour government 1929-35. And was apparently regarded as a class traitor in some quarters.


Now just exactly how cool is that??



http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.asp?LinkID=mp05733&role=sit&rNo=1



Can you see the resemblance?



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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-14-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Unfortunately, I am, too. But I'm more closely related to John Kerry.
Guess which one I will actually claim?
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Me too.
Join the crowd. Something like 8th cousin twice removed. I was really bummed when I found that out.

Also to Gerald Ford (I think through a step- relationship), and a few other famous folk. Don't have my book to check - and that's only through one grandparent - the rest haven't been researched as far back.
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Mr. McD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. According to ancestery.com so am I but it's not all bad.
Davy Crockett 7th Cousin 3 times removed

Jimmy Earl Carter 8th Cousin 2 times removed

George Walker Bush 9th Cousin 1 times removed

John Steinbeck 9th Cousin 1 times removed

Ray Bradbury 10th Cousin

Virginia Woolf 8th Cousin 5 times removed

James Abram Garfield 8th Cousin 2 times removed

Byron White 10th Cousin 1 times removed

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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. I'm probably a distant cousin of Cheney
At least one, maybe two, relatives way back married Cheneys (or Chaney). I think there is a Bush or two in there somewhere, also.

I just tell myself they are not direct ancestors and even if they were, they are so far back in time, the genetic taint would be diluted to nothing anyway.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. me too
We are both descendants of Mayflower Pilgrim John Howland and his Pilgrim wife Elizabeth Tilley.
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. He's my cousin!
Well, sort of. A distant great-grandmother of his was a sister of one of my distant great-grandfathers.
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. "No family has nothing but winners" remember that.....






























no, nobody famous said that, I just made that shit up!! I was just trying to make you feel better
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The Genealogist Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. Don't bash too hard
A friend of mine worked briefly at a call center. A call came through from someone who turned out to be Dubya's aunt. This aunt had nothing good to say about old Dubya! And if it makes you feel better, Ancestry.com had a feature that will tell you if you have famous ancestors. One of mine was Bar Bush, good old Dubya's mother, the one with the "beautiful mind." Way distant, but not someone I really like to admit I could be related to!
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