I've got to force a "house guest" to leave. Help....

[politicat]

Back in June, after learning that my tenants were going away, my husband and I decided to move back into my house (which is bigger and yet more energy efficient than his house was, and in a better location for our jobs). We had to make some major renovations before we moved back in. All well and good; we spent August and September re-working the house.

At about the same time (July, just after I had surgery on my knee), the woman I used to call my best friend got in a tiff with her mother (with whom she had lived for the past several years due to her career field evaporating and being stuck in McJobs since) over a boyfriend (now vanished, and honestly, good riddance... what an asshole) and got thrown out of her mother's house.

Faced with homelessness, I gave my friend the option of staying at the house we were renovating, with the conditions that 1) we were going to be renovating, so she'd have to be willing to live around paint cans, etc, 2) she needed to find her own place by the time we were ready to move in (at the end of September) and 3) we did not (repeat: did not) want a roommate after we moved back into my house - it is a 3 bedroom house, but both of us require home offices for our work and the rest of the house, save our bedroom, is "open plan" - the previous owner removed walls and put in arches to make all of the little old rooms into a great-room type space. (So even the "den" space where my physical therapy equipment is would not work as a bedroom without more renovating, which I'm not willing to do).

We moved in at the end of September, and she knew then that we were not at all pleased that she had not managed to find an apartment/roommate situation We made it clear then that she had a month to get her act in gear. (End of October). And here's my personal bitch about this: she knew she had two months' grace before we moved; she didn't use it wisely. When she could have been looking for a job or applying for housing assistance... she was knitting. Or shopping. Or playing Klingons with the boyfriend. Am I being unreasonably focused on self-reliance here, or am I being played? (She has applied for housing assistance, but the waiting lists are long, and rents are coming down.)

Rather than list the millions of reasons she's difficult to live with - if you want gory details, I will provide, I guess - let's just take it as given that she's not someone I would choose to share my house with. There are dietary and psychological issues, there's the fact that she doesn't pay rent or help out around the house, she's become increasingly unpleasant to be around... But the big issue is that she agreed to the deal - 2 months grace in which to find a permanent situation in exchange for being physically present in a house with a lot of expensive tools and stuff overnight. And now she's failed her end of the deal and won't get out.

I'll admit I made a mistake with her: three days before Move day, when I asked what her plans were and reminded her that her time was up, she broke into (possibly manipulative) tears and I gave her 30 days. That deadline was 6 weeks ago. When I reminded her of the deadline, she's been either very, very quiet or has engineered disasters that make it obvious that moving is going to be hard for her.

This has utterly ruined our friendship. I don't want to be around her, I don't care about her, I just want her out of my house. I don't think I've voluntarily spoken to her in weeks. I know for a fact there are a bajillion studios and apartments she could afford on what she makes. For that matter, if she doesn't want to spend more than a third of her income on rent, she could find a roommate; Craig's list and the Westword listings are full of requests for roomies.

And there's one other sticking point here that I just don't get: She doesn't drive and relies on public transit. The best, most accessible PT is in the urban core in Denver or the urban core in Boulder. The former has a significant portion of the region's affordable housing. But she says she's not comfortable living there, amongst "those type of people". Now, I've lived in that area, and I'd still be living there if I hadn't married a guy who (and this is his only real fault) believes that neighbors should be at least a quarter mile away, at closest. (My house isn't that secluded, but he's realized that seclusion and public transit are mutually incompatible, and he doesn't like to drive.) The Central Denver area's a dream compared to some of the urban cores I've lived in - compared to Pittsburgh, downtown Phoenix, and LA, it's safe, clean, quiet (and overwhelmingly white). I never had a problem in central Denver - closest I came was getting hit on a couple times. Admittedly, I'm about 10000 times more confident than she. (She's not very confident, so yes, I do think she's a crime waiting to happen, but I think that her lack of confidence has more to do with the fact that she's not willing to take control of her life and the choices she's made (or refused to make), and that she's willing to live her life as a victim of sexual, social and physical abuse instead of as a survivor. No woman goes through life unscarred by the way we're treated, but the difference is how we react to that treatment.)

So... How do I tell her to get out? I'm so annoyed with her I don't even want to talk to her to tell her to get out; I just want to go pack up her crap and leave it on the front lawn. I know the friendship is ruined, and there's a part of me that really wants to make her aware that she broke it by abusing our trust, generosity and assistance. I really would like her to know that the same behaviors that lead to her mother telling her to leave are the ones that are forcing me to do the same. I'd like to tell her that she creates these situations for herself and puts herself in these places, but I don't think she's going to hear it.

I need help. I don't know how to deal with this. I know if the positions were reversed, I would have moved heaven and hell to make sure that my friend's trust wasn't abused - and did, when as a grad student, I was in a pretty much identical situation of being barely able to support myself. For that matter, I've been homeless because I refused to abuse my friends' generosity. Each time, I got myself out - and sometimes it required living in a rat-hole of a basement apartment, or stowing my crap in a storage locker and sleeping in a $10 a night hostel dorm. The other thing that confuses me is that she's a qualified phlebotomist - there seems to be a high demand for such people, but she can't find a job? (She is only recently qualified, admittedly and has little experience.) Is that normal? Since I've always been able to find at job that paid at least COLA wages, even as an undergrad, I'm utterly at sea as to why she's not able to do better. The economy isn't great, but she's got skills and certifications that should bring her above that minimum.

What do I do next?

(Posted here because the Lounge is just too public.)

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

1. I agree, the lounge is public.

This is a nice, quiet forum.

Allright, you know what you have to do. Give her x number of days. A week? 10 days? That is plenty. Tell her she has to get her shit out of the house. If it's not out of the house on that day, you're calling the sherrif. Then do it. It's your only option.

She ain't gonna go anywhere, the friendship is over, you've gone above & beyond in trying to help, she's had way more than enough time.

She'll cry, she'll have a zillion excuses, yadda, yadda, yadda. Stand firm. Get DH in there with you. And no, calling for a man isn't a weakness, he's your best buddy, your support & he needs to back you up.

best

[NashVegas]

2. Some Options

You haven't mentioned what role your husband is playing in all this. It sounds like he's been remarkably patient, but it's time to get his assistance in approaching the problem as a team.

Your friend sounds like a mess. It sounds like she's suffering from low self-esteem and has no confidence that she can put herself in a better situation and is avoiding even trying.

You've got to light a fire under her ass and either help her try or make her try. Either way is going to be hard, the question is 'how brutal' do you want to be?

If you want to be very quick and brutal, pack up her things and put them on the porch, and change the locks.

If you're prepared to be a little more involved, you and hubby can sit down with her every day and go over the newspapers, websites, her income and budget and whatever else is needed to compare what is available to what she can afford. Hand her the telephone, and tell her you'll drive her to keep the appointments she's about to make to look at places, and help her evaluate them.

Be kind, be firm and don't back down. Help her do it, let her know you'll help her do it, but make it known you're going to make sure she does it.

[politicat]

3. It's going to have to be brutal...

We've been doing the other things for the past several years. She's one of those people who seems to exist in a constant state of crisis. Some are of her own making, but mostly, she has rotten luck (and yes, some of her ill fortune is of her own making...). This has been a friendship primarily based on my helping her and her not giving anything back.

As for driving her around... That's less possible (work schedules and the fact that we have one car only).

My husband's been very patient about the situation, but also passive. (He's passive by nature.) Things like this are my decision (as are most things) in his view. I handle money, finances, taxes, etc. As long as he has his computer to do what he loves, he's content. (And for the most part, I'm okay with that, since I am better at these sorts of detail oriented situations than he is. I wouldn't call myself a control freak so much as a control enthusiast....)

He and I will talk it out and set a deadline this weekend, and let her know Monday. I'm assuming 15 days should be reasonable, and if it isn't... well... There's a hostel in Boulder.

[NashVegas]

4. In That Case

Why 15 days? Why not 5? 3? 1?

What I mean is, you've already been reasonable. You've been more than reasonable.

If that's the course you're going to take, 15 days seems like too long a time. You're already giving her a break, and with Christmas coming, how apt is she to trade on that come December 18?

[politicat]

5. She's not religious.

That helps a lot.

She also knows that we aren't religious, and that Christmas is just a day for gaming around here.

[calico1]

6. The fact that you extended the deadline when

she broke out in tears makes it difficult because she probably thinks you wouldn't ever really kick her out now. Whatever deadline you extend this time you have to be firm. It is unpleasent but obviously she is not getting the message. She's and adult and you are not responsible for taking care of her or providing her security. You offered her a temporary place when she got kicked out of her mom's and now she's taken advantage of you. Since you don't regard her as a friend anymore its not like you are losing a special person. As unpleasant as it may be you just need to do it. Give her a deadline--I would not make it more than a week. And then as someone else mentioned, call the sheriff, change the locks, etc. You need to mean business this time and make it clear that you do. Hope all works out.

[Maine-ah]

7. ouch. I played this game last year.

a friend of my husband's and mine (which we've known almost our whole lives) was in a bad spot. He had no job, a kid (which he had on the weekends) and had no place to go. The deal was, he was supposed to help out around the house, clean up after himself ect...

well, that wasn't happening, and one day I came home from work and completely exploded. Kitchen was a mess, lawn hadn't been mowed in two weeks, beer bottles that had been around so long that a fruit fly problem had started, and (this is nasty) he hadn't washed or changed the sheets/blankets (of mine that I loaned) on the bed in over SIX WEEKS!

During that time he did get a job doing dishes at a restaurant, basically part time. I haven't spoken to the !@#$%!$$%$^%$&^ in a very long time. I don't plan on it either. He completely took advantage of our kindness and willingness to help out a friend. And it sounds like your friend is doing the same thing.

If you in anyway still value your friendship with this person, you need to tell them that you and your husband need your privacy and space, and that she needs to leave.

Either way, at this point, it's not going to be pretty and it sounds as if the relationship is pretty damaged now. My motto; "fish and guests smell after three days".

I'll never do this for anyone again. Good luck to you.

[SpeedwayDemocrat]

8. Too bad she's played you on this one...

Sounds like you were trying to be a good person, and she took advantage of that. From your description of her behavior that she is depressed and/or lazy. If you're planning to give her a certain number of days to get out, I'd post a countdown sheet very prominently (near the fridge is good) with the number of days left prominently displayed. Rip off a sheet each day as the countdown nears and make a public showing of it. Seeing the numbers dwindle and the date more firm in her mind might help reality set in that "this really IS it" this time. Start gathering boxes for packing. Does she have family you can call on this one? Someone who's "blood kin" might be able to motivate her to make something of herself. Post the number of a crisis help line prominently as well, as anyone who is this much of a drama queen will probably make some sort of attempt to paint herself into the victim role once again.
Don't count on the friendship surviving, when one person is using the other. Start thinking about some new friends who are willing to GIVE as well as TAKE.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes...

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Isn't it funny?

How these people who prevail upon your generosity NEVER want to help around the house? I had a similar situation with a friend about 6 years ago. I'd recently purchased my home here in Phoenix and let her move in with me because she seemed pretty cool and as a college student, didn't make a lot of money. But she DID have a practically full time job that paid her more than enough to afford the nominal rent I charged. I also covered the utilities. All she had to pay was $300 and her part of the phone. We also agreed that she'd do at least half the yardwork and housecleaning. Not unreasonable at all.

Well, it was nigh on impossible to get the money out of her most of the time, she did practically nothing around the house, was a slob, and had her friends over for parties while I worked the night shift. I got so resentful I could barely speak a civil word to her and finally, she had to go.

Ditto with (I'm ashamed to say) more than one live-in boyfriend. I guess I was a real mooch magnet for a while.


What is with these people? I can kind of understand the motivation to take advantage. I mean, it's much easier to be a helpless pet than it is to fend for yourself. But come on! How do you go through life being so blithely irresponsible and inconsiderate and then wonder why your self-esteem sucks? Duh.

Then again, I have to ask myself why I've let people treat me that way in the past :blush:

[politicat]

10. Update:

She moved out two days before the deadline, but she left a lot of stuff - including (and this hurt) some school clothes I'd bought for her teenage daughter (in AUGUST) that she never gave to her daughter.

We'll never do that again, sad to say.....

And no, she's decided never to speak to me again. Oh. Well.

As for her family, I assume she moved back in with her mother, whom she dislikes intensely but is willing to mooch off of seemingly indefinitely. It's so sad to see such great potential go to waste.

As for depressed and or lazy... I think both count for various reasons.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

11. I'm sorry that it turned out so badly.

You did what you had to do for both you & your SO. She sounds like she has more problems than any one person should be expected to deal with & you tried your best to help.

:hug:

[SpeedwayDemocrat]

12. Not speaking to you again?

Yeah, right. Count that as a temporary face-saving statement. Keep you guard up, 'cause she'll be back like a boomerang. Maybe not immediately, but sometime soon.
In the meantime, enjoy having your privacy back!