Why DOESN'T HRC just go ahead and "renounce" her IWR vote?

[Ken Burch]

What's the point in refusing to do so?

If she's saying she'd have voted differently had she known different stuff, why can't she just go all the way on this?

I don't understand the point of triangulating here.

[DonkeyInChinaShop]

1. Because she has the same instincts as Kerry

If she gets the nomination, she'll lose like Kerry too.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

2. because that would mean she isn't "moderate"

and might risk alienating the angry white men who hate her anyway, but she also lacks any sense of conviction on anything. She wouldn't tell you it was raining outside without a focus group and a cadre of spin doctors spending a week working out how to describe the rain without offending people with bladder problems...

Given how unpopular the war in Iraq is I am at a complete loss as to why anyone is dancing around the issue, but it is a challenge that will be faced by all the democrats who collaborated with the bush regime.

[Erika]

4. Hillary has always been dedicated to family issues

and done a darn good job at promoting them. She's one fantastic lady.

She's not a Condi who shoeshops while NO drowns.

[Erika]

7. It's the GOP who will face the questions

They rubber stamped W completely. They ignored their oversight duties. How sad for our country. The GOP lost the faith of this country for decades.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

15. right...

The role of the Democrats at that time is to serve as the "Loyal Opposition", not to trip over one another to get in the picture with bush.

Why didn't she call bullshit before the war began?

[Erika]

17. Why didn't W?

They had the info.

[aquart]

18. And THEN what would have happened?

Make no mistake, I hated that vote. I was devastated by that vote. BOTH my senators, my New York, state of the Twin Towers, senators voted for IWR. But if Schumer had and Hillary hadn't? What would have happened then?

[Ken Burch]

21. Schumer wouldn't have tried to cost his state a second Democratic senator

When he was chairing the DSCC.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. she would have saved her reputation?

and wouldn't be trying to dance around the subject of collaborating with bush.

[Erika]

3. Hillary was fantastic in New Hampshire

She made it known the people, the taxpayers, needed their concerns met. She was electric.

Hillary-Obama in 2008.

[illinoisprogressive]

5. She is afraid of being labeled a flip flopper when she is in the general - she assumes.

[MADem]

12. No, she WILL be labelled a flipflopper if she does that "I made a mistake" bullshit.

She has said if she knew then what she knows now she'd NEVER have voted the way she did. And she rightly put the blame on Monkeyboy. He WAS the one who made all the "mistakes." Mistakes being a nice way of saying "He lied like a rug, the fuck."

You know, those bastards ginned up a bunch of bullshit intelligence, they did the "If YOU knew what WE knew..." Big Lie, they played the "dire import" game, they even conned Colin Powell.

Now, I dunno if I have a well-tuned bullshit detector, but I never believed those bastards. And I came out against this war before it happened. And everyone who disagreed with me said "You don't have access to all the intel...." Well, the intel was a load of bullshit, but no one knew it back then. I did simply smell a rat...

I do think people in government, be they flying a desk at the Pentagon or working as a legislator, or for one, want to believe that the executive branch wants to advance our nation, to keep our people safe, to secure those blessings of liberty. No one wants to believe that a psychopathic asshole will seize the office and use it to enrich himself and his friends. Because that's just NOT the norm.

But hey, it happened this time...a crazy man actually started a war just to make himself, his family and his pals rich. That's it, in a NUTshell...

As Condi would say "Who could have EVER imagined....??"

So as for Hillary, I think she should say what she thinks. And she thinks the blame belongs with Porgie and Peppershot Dick. On that score, I really can't argue with her, because I think the blame belongs with them, too....

[Bluestar]

6. Because the Repukes will vilify her

in the general election, just like they called Kerry a flip-flopper.

[Erika]

8. Who does the GOP have to offer? That's the real joke.

Romney, the flip-flopper who makes Kerry look stable...and he's the best of the lot.

[BayCityProgressive]

9. Because she isn't sorry?

The Clinton's followed the imperial model of many former presidents. They strengthened the embargo on Cuba more than any Republican ever did, bombed Iraq and helped impose deadly sanctions,during Monica-Gate we bombed a pharmecutical plant in Africa- where medicine is needed most..saying it was a weapons plant. Clinton never apologized for it even when he had no proof. Also, the war in Kosovo and turning Serbia into a NATO puppet. Sanctions placed on Haiti, considered action against N Korea....really the list goes on and on as it does for all US presidents. She knows the game, she knows who to serve and she isn't going to apologize.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

11. We can't forget Bill enacting the Iraqi Liberation Act...n/t

[MADem]

14. Clinton suspended many embargo provisions. It's the GOP, by and large,

who did the worst of it, Reagan, especially. This link gives an overview: http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/funfacts/embargo.htm

You have to wonder why every president is slow to change the status quo. What are they told that we don't know?

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Deathly afraid of AIPAC.

[BayCityProgressive]

13. AIPAC

is powerful to be sure. However, getting rid of AIPAC would not end US imperialism. WOuld our Israeli policies change? Perhaps if the ruling corporatists saw them as too much a liabity or no longer useful. I think the "ruling class" is pretty united in it's support for Israel right now though. It is one of the few countries in the Middle East that we know we can use as a military base and for intell support due to the money we give them.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. Getting rid of AIPAC wouldn't change anything except that

the rhetoric might be a little more honest.

[durrrty libby]

19. People are deaf when it comes to Hillary

She apologizes ...pundits say it is not grovelly enough...

...and the sheeple of DU regurgitate pundit puke


Lather....rinse...repeat

[Ken Burch]

20. I wasn't attacking HRC. And I wasn't saying she should "grovel"

I just can't figure out why she'd make the pointless distinction between saying she'd have voted differently if and just plain "renouncing" the vote.

It doesn't seem like she has anything to gain by sticking to that fine point.

[durrrty libby]

22. Well if it is such a "fine point" what the hell difference does it make?

This is boosh's war. People need to remember that

and stop going along with the idiot talking heads

[Ken Burch]

24. I'm not going along with ANY "talking heads" I'm just saying she should wash her hands of it.

If I was advising the Senator, I'd tell her to just say "The peace movement was right and the Administration was wrong. And everyone in the Democratic party who denounced and distanced themselves from the peace movement was wrong too."

"I'm strong enough to admit it when I'm wrong, unlike the Republic Party, who will gladly let thousands more of our troops and tens of thousands of additional Iraqi people be slaughtered just to avoid admitting that they screwed up. The way of Johnson, Nixon, Bush and Reagan will not my way! In a Hillary Clinton administration, Nobody will die for the sake of my ego!".

[ronleslie]

25. Hillary does not admit mistakes easily + she didn't read the NIE

Hillary does not admit mistakes easily.   Also, it's kind of
hard for her to say she would have voted differently had she
known then what she knows know, when she had a chance to know
it back then, IF she had taken the time to read the National
Inteliggence Estimate that was issued a week (I believe)
before the vote.   She was encouraged to, but she didn't.   I
would call that dereliction of duty.   On something this
important, you take the time to read a 90 page report ... even
if you do have to go to the buble room to read it.

[demhistorian]

26. She has already. It seems she didn't do it the way you would like her to?

n/t