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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:14 PM
Original message
Are there any Buddhist here that can help me with something?
I recently started looking for a place to practice and receive guidance on my meditation. I attended my first meditation course last night. Well I have started to research the group and have seen it listed as a cult and debated back and forth weather it is one or not. Anyone know anything about the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT)? <http://kadampa.org/>

I did not experience anything that resembled cult like behaviour... (there was no presure, in fact the only person that talked to me was the teacher and that was because I approached him with some questions) is this more of sect infighting or is NKT really a dangerous cult I should stay away from?

Anyone have experience with NKT?

Thanks...
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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I do not think that it is a cult...
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 07:43 PM by mtf80123
nor do I want to disparage them. Personally, I think they are an alright group. However, there seems to be some animosity between them and HHDL. I would think that the following thread can clear up any questions you may have:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=34974

I have attended many sittings and teachings with them. However, they only study from the writings of their own spiritual guide and published by their own publishing house.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks...
I read about half of that link (67 pages) and ended up more confused than ever LOL. Guess its a sign I should slow down a bit and check out some other traditions first before settling down on a mediation center/method.

(On a side note I have never seen any disagreement with in Buddhism be so closely resembling western religious views in their methods of choosing what is right or wrong...)
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mtf80123 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I do not want to recomend a particular tradition...
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 03:33 PM by mtf80123
because you will eventually find out which tradition you would like to follow. I take it you live in California? If so, you should have a large and varied community around you.

Are you looking for a starting point? If so, I can recommend some Sutras to read in order of relevance if you like.

Also, here is a 50 minute BBC production on the life of Buddha. Done very nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2NLQGrbf5U
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. NKT .. Is not a group a new person should get involved with.. they are a personality cult. some of
Edited on Wed Nov-05-08 09:53 PM by sam sarrha
practices are in no way Buddhist, i am referring to the Shugdon practice, i read some of their teachings where it was directed to give your will to shugdon.. no Buddhist Teaching would ever suggest that one can find salvation outside one's self. Shugdon is not a Wrathful Protector he was a monk, who became a "SupraNatural" being.. Buddhism does not involve "Spirit Worship"



http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Dorje_Shugden_-_Origins/id/4993863
"snip...Dorje Shugden - Origins
This issue has a long history and involves not only the Fourteenth Dalai Lama but also the Thirteenth, and the Fifth Dalai Lama as well. This history is discussed extensively in an article by Geshe George Dreyfuss.

Within Tibetan Buddhism there are several main schools (Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya and Gelug) and each of these have many sub-schools. The practices and Deities emphasized vary somewhat from school to school. In the Tibetan tradition there are hundreds of Dharma Protectors, with each monastery having its own Dharmapala. Some of them are considered to be enlightened beings, some not. However Dharmapalas are not the main teaching of any Buddhist school.

The "founding myth" behind Shugden worship involves a lama named Drakpa Gyaltsen (1618-1655) who was a rival of the Fifth Dalai Lama, Lobsang Gyatso (1617-1682). In fact the former seems to have been a candidate to become the Fifth Dalai Lama himself (i.e., while a child some lamas proposed him as the reincarnation of the Fourth), but was passed over. Their rivalry continued, however, and according to legend resulted in the early death (perhaps the murder) of Drakpa Gyaltsen. Later Trijang Rinpoche said, in reality there was no rivalry and pointed to that event as a "skilfull means" (to tame the mind of disciples).

There is the saying in Tibetan tradition, murder victims often become transformed into vengeful spirits. And so Shugden adherents believe the Lama Drakpa Gyeltsen was able to transform his wrath to religious ends, namely the protection of the Gelugpa tradition against "political pressures toward greater ecumenicalism" among Tibetan Buddhist sects. Hence his transformation into the "protector deity" Shugden. Geshe George Dreyfuss doubts the historicity of this legend, because there are no reliable scriptural sources of the historical background for this, and this legend was written about later by apologists of Shugden.

What can be stated as a fact is that the beginning of worship of Dorje Shugden was the death of the Lama Drakpa Gyaltsen at the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama. However it is not clear if he was "reborn" out of grudge, out of compassion or even if he was enlightend.

Key figures in the modern popularization of worshipping Dorje Shugden are Pabongkha (1878-1944), a charismatic Khampa lama who seems to have been the first historical Gelugpa figure to promote Shugden worship as a major element of Gelugpa practice; and Trijang Rinpoche (1901-1981), a Ganden lama who was one of the tutors of the present Dalai Lama. The Lama Pabongkha put great emphasis on spreading this practice and was scolded by the Thirteenth Dalai Lama for doing so. Pabongkha Rinpoche promised to stop. After the death of the Thirteenth Dalai Lama Pabongkha began to spread the practice even more than before. Out of his influence and charisma the practice became quite popular in the Gelug tradition. But there were also high Gelug Lamas like the senior tutor of H.H. the Dalai Lama, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche, Kachen Yeshe Gyaltsen and others who not only didn’t practice Shugden but also advised against the practice...snip"


i have also talked to people who joined NKT and were started out on High Vajra teachings without essential preliminary preparations.. which can take years of study under a Guru before it is safe to begin such teachings.
http://newkadampa.blogspot.com/2007/11/experience-with-nkt-from-t.html

Buddhists traditionally are shy about criticizing other groups.. our Lama of the Gelupa tradition cautioned us without any reservation against having anything to do with NKT. i am not so shy, this is the West, people here dont understand such things and the consequences can be grave. Buddhism involves learning a new Vocabulary, much of it Sanskrit. simply because many of its concepts are totally absent here.. and involve much Right Brain activity.. also foreign here.. i takes a while, slow and steady is the best course. the effects of meditation are not always apparent, it is slow and subtle, it is compared to learning to play a musical instrument, daily practice, study:its learned from others, and takes about as long.. about a year, my experience is that after about 2 months you see noticeable things, it is simply a method of training the mind, one also learns to disassociate emotions from words, thoughts etc, especially negative emotions. and one spends less time away from the present, major distractions are thoughts involving emotional tags/frames and thoughts about past and future, its all about staying in the present

I lived far from any groups in TX, i started by ordering tapes/dvd/cd's from http://www.snowlionpub.com http://www.soundstrue.com http://www.onespirit.com

my first teaching was from Pema Chodron "When Things Fall Apart", and getting unstuck, don't bite the hook

Robert Thurman, jack kornfield, sharon salzberg

best site is htttp://www.buddhanet.net they have good meditation instruction.. ,
http://www.buddhanet.net/ac-instruct.htm

i found this cd very helpful http://www.dharmacrafts.com/104xBG/2050CD/end-chime-for-meditation-cd.html to my meditation

http://www.buddhanet.net/audio.htm good samples

best meditation book http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Mind-Psychology-Rob-Nairn/dp/1570627630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1225937240&sr=8-1

i bought several 6 tape set teachings, i dedicated hours EVERY DAY, got up at 4am to study and meditate when it was quiet, went to bed very early.. after a couple months i had quit drinking, 25 year hard core alcoholic,.. and i just ran into a Tibetan Monk in El Paso that invited me to his group .. i did 3 meetings a week for 4 years.. totally changed my life

good luck.. feel free to PM me if you want
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks for the reply...
I posted the original post a while ago - since then I stopped attending the NRK meditation class. I have since discover that a neighbor of mine meditates with a couple groups and she is helping me find a place that fits me better. I went to a sitting with Sharon Salzberg in Septemeber - it was great. I need to work better on my own discipline but I am using a couple Kornfield audio mediation courses I got on iTunes to help with the meditation. I also have a couple of his books (A Path with Heart etc). I think Im more suited for "westernized" Theravada. Im also reading the board at http://www.e-sangha.com/ - Id like to eventually find a Sanga to attend and possibly join, but have yet to find one Im comfortable with (I prefer a western version with very little cultural influence - Im a little more science based in my beliefs I have found - for example I personally view rebirth as my energy returning to the earth and begging a new cycle).

The elections and Prop 8 have both given me a very hard time in meditation - so now that Im starting to calm down Im hoping to do more studying and dedicate myself again to the Dharma.

Why isnt there an Easter Thought or Buddhist forum here? I would hardly say Buddhism is a "Unique Path" anymore than any of the other main religions...
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. If you have a buddy who can join you, I would make a Holiday offering of
Edited on Tue Dec-23-08 08:54 PM by truedelphi
"Joy Healing' And if you are out of Buddies right now, you can do it by sing a tape recorder that will record the script for you.

It is not religiously affiliated, but a 10 to 15 minute exercise that will offer you a renewed sense of joy. The Universe gave it to me in a dream, and it helps becaue its whole philosophy is that Western Life can be a little too much goal oriented, such that we forget how to have JOY.

I do it about once a month, in addition to my meditation practice.

Do Private message me if you are interested. (Being a gift of the Universe, it is free.)

And anyone else who's interested, do the same.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Thank you for psoting the link to the Buddha video.
Will check it out later.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. the writings of "Their Teacher" is not Dharma, only teachings from the Buddha is Dharma.
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WheelWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I couldn't agree with you more, sam.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-16-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. I strongly advise you to go here
http://www.watmetta.org/


This is a world famous meditation center that attracts serious visits from people all around the world including Europe.


You do not have to ever consider giving it any financial support.


While I attend a Thai speaking temple that my wife prefers for social reasons I can tell you that I have checked this monastary out and they are the real deal.

Novice American monks who are considering joining the priesthood must stay in tents for a year before being considered.


The abbot is an American who has spent decades in Thailand and I know the basic school that he is following.


They have facilities where you can come and stay for an extended period, bring a sleeping bag.


Give them a call and find out when their classes are.


There are hundreds of devotees who come from Los Angeles all the way to attend seminars there.


They are truley outstanding and have attracted strong financial support (Tiger Woods mother is one contributor) so that they can concentrate on the Dharmma and are very thoughtful and scholarly.

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. Have you tried out the SD Zen Center?
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-03-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes - I have been there, and a couple other groups as well...
Thanks for the suggestion. Its full of lovely people and they do a lot of work with outreach and meditation. Im thinking I might see if they have any classes that will "fit" my path - I have meditated with followers of Zen before as well.
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