JeffR....Paging JeffR.........

[bvar22]

Hey!
I really, really loved your entry for the Photo Contest, Tenderness on the Block (in memory of Warren Zevon). I found it emotionally provocative on several levels, and kept coming back to it to just look at it and enjoy it. I especially liked the juxtaposition of youth & beauty in the foreground with the fading elderly woman w/cane in the left background.

I may have experimented with a mirror flip to put the elderly woman in the right background. My brain perceives images as flowing from Left to Right, youth -> age, but this is a very subjective and minor personal distinction.

But the point of this Call Out is not to gush over your wonderful photo, but to ask, How did you get this photo?. This question makes this worthwhile as a Thread Topic.

I LOVE watching "people" in their natural environment, but find it difficult photographing them in that candid state. Once people know they are being photographed, they go into Pose Mode and lose that wonderful and innocent Realness. Photographing "people in their natural state" mandates some sneakiness that I have never become comfortable with.


Walking down the streets in Minneapolis with a long (telephoto) lens taking photos of people in crowds led to embarrassing confrontations with people who accused me of either being with the FBI or a "Private Snoop" trying to catch people cheating on their wives. People who saw the long lens often covered their faces, ducked, or scowled at me. I never was able to get over the feeling that I was "invading" their lives, or taking something that I was not entitled to. It was worse if my subject was eccentric or downtrodden. I often faced the personal dilemma, "Am I exploiting them for my own gratification?"

For a while, I tried to do it from the comfort and security of my parked car. I would park at a busy pedestrian area and shoot through an open window, but that only made the feelings of sneakiness worse.

The best solution I could come up with was abandoning the long invasive lens for the 50mm F1.8 Nikon lens. This tiny lens looks like a toy on the front of my camera, is much less intimidating, and gets fewer suspicious looks as I walk down the streets, but I have to get much closer.


So I pose this question because it is one I kept asking myself as I studied your photo, "How did JeffR get this wonderful candid photo of people in their natural innocent state?"

Is it just me and my personal neurosis, or do you have some of the same feelings?
I addressed it to you because I'm curious, and your photo is a poignant example of the beauty of people in their natural state, but I also posted it as an open question to all photographers in this forum to determine if I am the only neurotic, internally conflicted one here.

Thanks,
bvar22

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I'm like you, Bvar22.

I have a TERRIBLE time taking photos of people out in public unless it's an event where everybody else has cameras, too. It just feels so intrusive somehow, especially when it's people on the street who are down on their luck.

So how about it, JeffR? How do you do that?

[JeffR]

2. That was taken during a street festival

so there were quite a few people walking around with cameras. I "stalked" the girls - that's how it felt - for about two blocks and got off several shots at 250mm.

This is a conflicted issue for me too. There is something a little invasive about it. I haven't had anyone confront me in these situations, but I get plenty of suspicious looks, like the woman on the far left here:



One of these days I'll probably get punched in the face. If that happens, I'll have to concede maybe I deserved it.

[ManiacJoe]

3. One of the tricks

that can be used to be more stealthy is to not aim directly at your subject. (Auto-everything digital cameras can make this hard.)

For example, assuming the asian man was your intended subject, you could move him to the left of the shot and let everyone think you were taking an artsy shot of the trees. You would need to work-with/fight-with the auto focus system maybe. Then during post-processing, crop the picture to be the way you really wanted it.

Most of the time it is perfectly legal to take all the pictures you want of whatever/whoever you want while your subject is out in public. However, what you are allowed to do with the picture afterwards is a completely different topic.

[dbmk]

19. Are there limitations if its shot in public?

Can differ from country to country perhaps, but I thought that it was generally yours to do with what you want afterwards.

[bvar22]

4. Thanks, Jeff.

The photo you posted above is also interesting.
The man in the center has obviously spotted you, but still has an interesting expression, and a face full of character. The guy on the right with his hands in his pockets and a troubled expression would also make an interesting candid portrait.


Everything aside, the photo posted to the contest was certainly worth the effort.

Again, thanks.
I felt comfortable asking you because you have been here for years, and I am familiar with your photography.

I am interested to hear what others in this group have to say.


bvar22

[blueraven95]

6. I think you're fine

to me it appears she is looking at the girl she is talking to, not at you.

[Juneboarder]

5. Same goes for me...

I am most intimidated when taking pictures of other people in public. Hopefully nobody gets too mad at me :)

[Tindalos]

7. This is an excellent question

I've wondered this myself but have been too nervous to ask. Generally, I just avoid people entirely so this contest was something new for me and quite challenging. I even had to look up street photography on wiki to get an idea of what it is.

On the streets, I got glares from a few people and a rather pervy look from one guy, but nobody actually confronted me. If someone spotted me, I just re-aimed the camera like I was photographing the building behind them or look confused and fiddled with the camera settings (I'm still learning to use this camera so it wasn't difficult to feign stupidity). As a general rule, I delete any picture where someone expresses any disapproval.

Like you, I am worried about exploitation. Especially given the subject of my photo. I really debated whether to enter this photo and am still not sure it was the right choice. On the one hand, I worry using him but on the other hand, I don't want to ignore someone because they are homeless/poor. They get ignored too often and it felt wrong to reject the picture simply because he was homeless. I don't know what to do for the best in these situations. He's part of my city and yet, his story will probably never be told and I felt compelled somehow to tell it. However, I have no idea if that is the right thing or not.




Thank you for posing the questions that I wasn't brave enough to ask. And can I just add that I really love the colour and motion in your photo, bvar22.

[mth44sc]

8. There is a person of flickr

who posts the most compelling pictures of the homeless and those down on their luck. He takes the time to talk with them and posts their stories.

Its very compelling and perhaps a lesson in how to approach the subject.

Your picture tells that story with the man's obvious love and caring for his "friend".

The next time I run across Sister Pat - she'll be getting that 100 bill that's been burning a hole in my pocket to use at her food kitchen. Your picture did good!

To see the flickr pics I mentioned:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stoneth/

[Tindalos]

12. Wow, he's amazing.

Those are powerful portraits and stories. He captures so much in a picture and a few words. Thanks for the site.

I've been thinking about talking more to the people I meet downtown. They have such interesting stories and I enjoy meeting them. I'm happy the picture managed to convey this man's story. If I see him again, maybe I'll sit and talk with him for a while.


Give my regards to Sister Pat. It's very sweet of you and I'm sure she will appreciate the help.

[Blue_In_AK]

9. I took care of this problem with my street picture.

No people. :rofl:

[mth44sc]

10. I used me

all I had to do was stand still for 30 seconds :-)

[Blue_In_AK]

11. It worked out really well, too.

Good job. :thumbsup:

[Tindalos]

13. That's you?

That's really cool.

[Tindalos]

14. That's one way of doing it.

And I'm not surprised given the temperatures there. Any people would be so bundled up, they'd be unidentifiable.

[JeffR]

15. The photo in you sig pic prompted the same worries for me.

That was my first winning submission in one of these contests. Adding another layer of complexity, the photo was taken in Toronto (where I do my crabby leftist expatriate thing). In the anti-poverty project I'm involved with, when it came time to choose an image for the banner, "Cash Machine Available Here" was communally chosen, and the betrayed soul in that photo came to visually symbolize poverty in a country he might never have set foot in. (There was a splendid suggestion from regnaD kciN to try and get some help to this guy. I went back to that neighborhood several times to see if he was around, but he wasn't. Someone else had inherited his patch of sidewalk, and so it went for blocks around the packed homeless shelter nearby. And so it's been for years.)

I've come to think that photographs like this illuminate the horrors we countenance among ourselves, and how important such pictures are. I have a hard time looking at them and an even harder time taking them, but let's be inspired by the thought that Matthew Brady didn't flinch from what he saw. He pointed his camera at it and shot it as carefully and accurately as he could, and history owes him a debt of gratitude.

[Tindalos]

17. That picture encapsulates so many problems in our society.

I can see why they chose it. It's a shame you couldn't find him again. I wonder how he would feel about it, if he knew he could influence so many people.

You're right about Mathew Brady and others like him, who didn't shy away from showing the real world. We can learn a lot from them. I'm new to the city, so my country eyes have been opened. There are things that can never be understood until you've seen them.

[Mira]

16. An illuminating, heart-rending, thought-provoking thread with phenomenal images at the link

[dbmk]

18. I am facing the exact same "issues"

And have made the exact same choice. :) Although my Canon 50mm 1.8 acts as an 80mm on my 400D.
I have even taken the battery grip of the camera, to make it look less "professional".

But I will try and shoot with the 70-200 from a distance one of these days. Just to see what it feels like and whether it gets me better shots.

I think the trick is to remind yourself that you are documenting life. And somehow try to signal that. :)

Generally it is one of the eternal debates of street shooting, it seems. Do you sneek or do you go in the face?
Take a look at this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkIWW6vwrvM
I think he gets phographs of people being photographed (invasively). To me its reaction shots, more than situation shots. He is even forced to direct his subject at one point.
Its fascinating, though. :)

But to go back to your reason for the thread; It is a wonderful picture, indeed. A little more room below and perhaps above the subjects and it would have been striking.
Thats the only issue I can see with it. Colours are perfect and so is the moment caught.