Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Can someone recommend a good Digital SLR?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Arts & Entertainment » Photography Group Donate to DU
 
maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 08:42 PM
Original message
Can someone recommend a good Digital SLR?
I have a few bucks to spend ($1000.00-$1200.00),and need a new toy.
What about a decent photo printing system?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. I always tell people Canon
But that's because I've been shooting with Canon for almost ten years and will never switch.

Check out www.dpreview.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was told in the Lounge that Digitals dont take great pics.
And that the home printing systems result in blurry and low resolution shots. Any truth to that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It all depends on what you buy
The more megapixels, the better quality of a print you're going to get. I have a Canon 10D, which has 6.3 MP, and I would never go back to a film camera. But once I get some more money, I plan on buying the Canon 20D, which has 8 MP, but I will keep the 10D so I can have two bodies.

If you buy a canon digital, you can get one of the CP printers which are real good. It's like the prints you would get in walgreen's, but probably not as good as the prints you'll get if you get them developed somewhere where they know what they're doing.

If you buy a canon, even if it's not a SLR, it will be compatible with the CP printer. They have different models. I have the CP-200. They might have different numbers now because Canon is always improving.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. No, it's horseshit.
10 years ago, yeah. Now? Now amatures can take much better pictures with a digital than with film. And if you're a lousy photographer, at least with digital your crappy pictures didn't cost you nearly as much, AND you can afford to practice taking pictures, so you can get better.

And as for home printing systems, most professional photographers (myself included) have been printing our portfolio and sample pieces on home printing systems for several years.

Negative film has one advantage only, and that advantage has been mooted: neg film has very good exposure latitude (translated: you can fuck up your exposure and never know it because the pic still looks good). But with digital, you see that you got your exposure wrong, and you simply take another pic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree
My camera skills improved tremendously after switching to digital for the simple reason I could immediately see what I shot. I was able to experiment with different settings and get immediate results, rather than wait until I get them developed when I really had no idea what settings contributed to the good photos, and what settings contributed to the mediocre photos.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Canon and Nikon seem to be solid players in the
digital market. Generally, the Canon is easier to use but Nikon is tops in optics. Do your homework to see what suits your needs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm leaning towards the Canon 20D
If I can make some extra scratch with my lemonade stand this summer. I might have to sell crack on the side. There's no knockin' the D70, but it has a high noise level at lower ISO's and I like shootin' night shots. I'm also looking at a new Nikon Filmsie camera that is very inexpensive but very good.

Course anything would be better than what I'm using now. An old nikon coolpix that uses a rubberband to hold the battery compartment together. I had my Canon Filmsie ripped off a few years back.

Printer? I have an Oki LED. It's friggin' amazing and handles all kinds of paper. But the cartidges are pricey. You can pick up a printer for 500-600 but a set of cartridges run over $400.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. High noise at lower ISO on the D70?
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 08:22 AM by ET Awful
Not that I've ever seen. It does have noise at higher ISO, which is not a trait unique to the D70 (why would you use lower ISO at night?).

I've used the D70 in very low light situations with no significant noise problems to speak of.

As an example:



While there is more noise at 1600 ISO, it's nothing greater than what one would expect to see as film grain if using a comparable ISO of film.

http://www.naturfotograf.com/D70_rev03.html is the source for the image above.

The only real problem I've seen with D70 image quality is when taking pictures of some fabrics or other items with a grid-like or weave pattern, is that in some cases you do get a larger amount of moire than you do with other cameras. This is a known issue and is apparently associated with the anti-aliasing filter over the sensor.

Oh, before I forget :) . . . in the new version of Paint Shop Pro (version 9 I think), there is a built in digital noise reduction plug-in that works wonders. I've used this on pictures out both the Nikon and my old Olympus and Minolta cameras and they make a 1600 ISO picture look as clear as a 200 ISO, with no objectionable loss of detail. I was VERY impressed with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Posting very late at night
Got my fugglestein mixed up with my goofliboog. Brain not working with typing fingers. I'm still considering the 70 if my Lemonade Stand does well, but I'm leaning toward the 20. If I can find where I found the noise comparisons (between the 70 and 20) I'll post it. Like I said... the 70 is a good camera and anything would be an improvement over what I have.

Since I'm just a hack I have to consider the life span of the camera and how I will use it. The 20 seems to fit the bill better than the 70 when I compare my "list" of needs. I don't want to have to buy another camera, unless one gets stolen again. The 20 should fit my needs all the way up until when my wife takes pictures of my funeral.

The main problem I have with all good DSLR's is the price of the better lenses. I might just say fuggleboog and buy another point and shoot camera along with a decent filmsie. But then I have the same problem with the Film camera and the price of good lenses. Or, I might just go to Walgreens and buy a bunch of disposable cameras. :)

Oh, and thanks for the Paintshop suggestion.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Hypnotoad introduced me to a free piece of software once
which I admitted poopooed, but it's actually really kickass. It's called NeatImage, and basically it messes around with the chromatic channel and removes ALOT of digital noise. The free version will only let you do one pic at a time, but for free, it's a freaking steal.

All photographers, digital or film should give this thing a whack.

http://www.neatimage.com/

It can even figure out what kind of digital camera you used by the noise pattern, amazing!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. It's a great program, I used to use it with my Minolta A1
Very nice :).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. In that price range, ther are several fantastic options.
First, contrary to what was stated above, you don't need a Canon camera to use a Canon printer (I have a Nikon camera and use a Canon printer, no problem at all).

Second, in the current crop of digital SLR cameras in that price range, there are no bad cameras, all are capable of taking perfectly good pictures, and are more dependant on the lens and the capability of the person holding the camera than anything else.

The best thing to do is to go to a store and handle the cameras, they all feel very different and you want the one that is most comfortable in your hands. Comfort = use. If it's not comfortable, you'll be less likely to use it.

Then, after you have a good idea of what feels right to you, look at the lenses for each because when you buy an SLR, you are not buying a camera, you're buying a system. Remember that the investment you make in lenses will be usable in the future on other camera bodies as you upgrade, etc.

That said, my personal opinion is that Nikon and Canon are fairly equal in most regards. The Canon 20D is one of the nicest pieces of gear out there, but it was out of my price range.

The Canon Rebel and Rebel XT (6 and 8 megapixel respectively) are both excellent cameras (though without spot metering which is something I prefer to have). The older Rebel is a tad slow to power on and when shooting sequential shots, the XT rectifies those issues.

The Nikon D70 is a very nice camera (my personal choice) and fits the hand a little better (at least in my opinion). It also feels more robust and solid than the lower end offerings from Canon. Image quality, all things considered is equal with the Canon having a little more color saturation, and the Nikon haveing a little more sharpness, either can be adjusted in post-processing.

Another camera which hasn't been looked at on this thread is the Pentax *ist DS which is a VERY nice camera. One of the nice things about the Pentax is the ability to use any Pentax lens ever made for the most part. It also has a much larger and clearer viewfinder than the Canon or Nikon provide, along with more autofocus zones. I would probably look much closer at the Pentax if I were shopping today.

One thing to consider is that in another month or so, the Nikon D50 will be on the shelf. This will have the majority of the features of the D70, at a significantly lower price than either of the Canons above or the D70. This would leave lots of room for buying extra lenses, etc.

Finally . . . expel from your mind the arguments about 8 megapixel being better than 6 or 12 being better than 8, etc. In 99% of all situations 6 is sufficient. The prime benefits of having more only show themselves if you are printing larger than 11 x 15 inches or so, or are cropping out huge chunks of an image before printing it at 8 x 10 or so. More is better isn't necessarily applicable unless you plan on printing large prints.

As to comments about digital not providing the same clarity or providing blurry prints, NONSENSE. The majority of print photography today is migrating toward digital. This includes everything from photojournalism to sports photography. Many newspapers are completely digital shops now. I can show you prints from a digital camera that you would never know were produced digitally unless you were told.

I won't recommend a system based on brand loyalty, but on features, comfort, ease of use, and future upgradability.

It's very hard to go wrong with the Nikon D70 or the Canon Rebel XT. Both of those fall into your price range pretty easily.

If you want to spend a tad more, the Canon 20D is an excellent performer and unmatched in it's price range (though Nikon supposedly has an upgrade to their D100 int he works that will outperform it, I haven't seen anything concrete).

If you want to go even higher, my first choice, but I couldn't afford it was a Minolta Maxxum D7. This camera has an anti-vibration feature built into the sensor which will allow you to shoot at much longer zooms while handheld and still get extremely clear images. If I'd had the $1,600, this is what I would have bought.

It's a touch choice, and it's a good chunk of change to invest. The best thing you can do is read all the reviews you can, do some hands on in the store, and talk to people who own the cameras you're most interested in. If someone expresses a devout brand loyalty in their recommendations, take it with a grain of salt, it's usually far less than an impartial opinion and is no more logical an argument than a Ford/Chevy debate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The canon printer I mentioned is only compatible with Canon cameras
http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/cp220/

Unless you know something I don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. They appear to be pict-bridge compatible
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I didn't know that
They're very good printers for the price and size. But if you do a lot of prints, it can become expensive because you need to buy a new ink pack after 36 prints. The ink pack comes with 36 4x6 postcards and it runs about 20 bucks.
But if you take 200 shots and print out your best 36 shots, it's still better than taking 200 shots on more than five rolls of film and sending them to get developed and only being happy with 36 shots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. They are kind of neat, the only thing I don't like
is that you're limited to that 4x6 size.

For the most part, if I'm going to print it's going to be 5x8 or larger. Anything else is usually done electronically . . . for me anyway :).

I love my Canon i960 though. It gives me flawless edge to edge printing up to 8.5x11 and it's not that expensive.

E
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. On Eric's second note, how it fits in your hand it important
I have very short fingers, so my Canon felt better to me than his Nikon, both are equal give or take a typical balance of features here and there IMO, but I like mine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. I love my Canon Digital Rebel, it's not as robust and solid as the
Nikon D70, but the Rebel XT (which is a step above mine) easily outperforms the Nikon D70.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Not necessarily :)
The D70 is faster in most situations and provides comparable image quality, unless you are planning on printing large prints. When printing at normal sizes you will never notice the difference in resolution.

That said, the only thing that kept me from buying the XT instead of the D70 was the way it felt in my hand, it's smaller and less robust feeling than the original Rebel :(.

I sometimes wish I'd gone ahead and gotten it, but such is life :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. I recommend you hang for a month and wait for the D50
to hit the market.

It will be a cheaper, slightly less full featured brother to the D70, if what I heard is right.


But I shoot a d70, and it is damn near a perfect camera.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Your description of the D50 is pretty accurate
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 05:36 AM by ET Awful
It will also use SD cards instead of compact flash.

While I love the D70, there are a few things I'd change in the design department:

First would be the availability of a fully functional vertical grip that actually provides everything a good vertical grip should.

Second, I would modify the low-pass filter to eliminate the moire that occurs in some situations.

Third, while not completely necessary (and I don't really miss it that much), I would provide an ISO 100 setting and an ISO 3200 setting) (I think the low-pass filter mentioned above would also cure the majority of noise issues some people have noticed).

Fourth, and this has bee addressed on the new D70S, I'd have a cable release.

Fifth, I would improve the viewfinder (make it more like that of the Pentax *ist DS for instance), and include more information on the display in the viewfinder, such as ISO which is currently not visible.

SO yeah, there are a lot of things I'd change, but I still love my D70 :)

Now, the "perfect" digital camera would have:

The body of the D2X

A dual CPU system that could utilize both Canon and Nikon lenses (this wouldn't be as hard as it sounds, if Kodak can make cameras for both, the licensing is available, and a mounting ring/cartridge style adapter wouldn't be THAT hard, it's possible to do).

It would have many of the features of the Nikon D2X, including the speed and resolution in all environments and the weatherproofing).

The anti-shake system used by Minolta where it's sensor-mounted instead of dependent on the lense, that way ANY lense becomes an anti-shake lense.

The self-cleaning sensor of the Olympus DSLR system (manually triggered, not with each power on like Olympus).

I could go on :).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I would love all of the above
But you forgot to mention that it should be at the D50 MSRP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. hehehe, believe it or not I mean to say "and retails for under $800"
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Arts & Entertainment » Photography Group Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC