Photography Group Roundtable Threads (A Proposal)

[JeffR]

What I'm proposing is a monthly roundtable thread for getting and giving useful feedback. I figure at the least we could try this once and see if it's worth doing as a regular thing. I was hoping bvar22 might take the plunge first (see the first suggested guideline below...)

Suggested guidelines:

First poster (who could be the winner of the most recent contest - winners ought to get some perk other than the onerous task of hosting the next one) posts a pic. Provides as much technical info as desired. Gives some background about where and when pic was taken. The photographer then essentially offers a self-critique, explains why he/she thinks the pic is successful or unsuccessful, why the subject appealed (sentimental reasons, aesthetic attraction, interesting event or scene).

Responses follow. First detailed critique/analysis posted (can be critical, but should be constructive) earns the poster a chance to post their pic, and the process continues. Anyone is welcome to make further comments on a pic above (or comments on other comments), but only the first poster gets to post the next pic.

Roundtable ends at 10 pics, though further comments are still welcome.

No theme and no voting involved in roundtables; just post pics you're especially pleased with, or frustrated about.

There's so much talent in this group, and so many people with things to teach everyone else. By proposing this, I hope to leverage all this talent a little. Create a little synergy, if you will (once a corporate executive, always a corporate executive, alas). I'm also hoping the process might be fun. If people want to give this a try, I think we could hone the guidelines to a set of bullet points that could be inserted into the OP.

Caveats (based in part on comments by regnaD kciN):

People may have their feelings hurt, if they're especially fond of the pic they're posting. Everyone should be forewarned to check their ego at the door when posting a pic. The idea is to get feedback from good photographers, be they professional or amateur. Don't post a pic if you don't want a critique.

Conversely, people may temper their criticism out of an abundance of consideration. Understand that by posting a pic in these threads, the poster is explicitly asking for opinions. Try to be candid.

Opinions are opinions, and taste is taste. When commenting, please take pains to specify why you feel as you do. Be as specific and concrete as you can. And be as detailed as you can. Please don't post a perfunctory comment just for the sake of getting to post the next pic in the thread. Non-competitive is the keyword here, and if we can make this work, there's plenty of opportunity for everyone to get a shot (pun intended).

Understanding that people's monitors are not calibrated uniformly, please restrict commenting overmuch about relative brightness and contrast issues, unless it seems apparent that the pic is radically washed out or obviously too dark. Realistically, we're all seeing different versions of every pic posted, so there should be some tolerance for brightness/contrast issues.

Feedback desperately hoped for! What say you, photographers?

:hide:

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I think this is a good idea

although I'm really not very good at being critical of other people's photographs. Sometimes I'm just much too NICE, you know what I mean. Maybe this would be a good opportunity for me to learn how to be more assertive. Hey, your picture SUCKS, and what on EARTH were you thinking when you shot it. :evilgrin:

[JeffR]

2. LOL! Like finding one's inner Republican?

[insane_cratic_gal]

3. I like it

So long as Regna said ... EGO is checked at the door. Don't form any personal attachments to your work, if possible.

I think if we can all focus on growth as photographers and constructive criticism, it's a wonderful idea

We look at Composition, technically is it a good shot? what are its strengths? Is it the lighting, the expression, the subject, and how does it influence the mood.

Say something good first, then follow with Constructive Criticism, what would you of liked to have seen? Better lighting? Better framing? etc.

Maybe even try to follow up the idea with a re-shoot of x subject (Or as close as you can) trying to implement some of the ideas posted?

[JeffR]

4. Love the re-shoot idea

It would be great to see someone try that.

[Blue_In_AK]

5. I have a reshoot of my "something old"

winning entry that I took last Sunday when we were up at Independence Mine. It looks completely different in the sunshine -- it probably wouldn't have won anything.



Even excluding the sunspots and the nasty little UFO that made its way onto my sensor during the course of the day, I don't think this is nearly as pleasing a photo as this one.



The clouds really set the mood, plus the angle is much better, even though it's a minute change.

[JeffR]

6. Agree about the angle and the lighting

The somber character of the winning pic is much superior. It's remarkable how the sunshine in the top photo completely removes any connotations of "old".

The snow is also nice to look at, as I sit here smothering in the heat. Our central air hasn't been working properly, so we've mostly kept it off, even with temperatures flirting with 100.

[Blue_In_AK]

9. It's ironic in a way

because I'm always whining about the cloudy conditions up here, but in this case, at least, they really helped.

[JeffR]

10. Maybe it's just my personal bias

but I love shooting on cloudy days, especially just before or just after rain. The light does nice things with color saturation.

[NV Whino]

13. Nice comparison, Blue

The overcast conditions really add to the desolate feeling and make that shot.

[TahitiNut]

18. (Hmmmm...) I have a different 'take' on it. (no surprise)

While there's no question that the weather plays a role is setting the mood, the composition of the second photo is (imho) far superior.
(1) There's a 5-stage depth of field: foreground (feet on the rails); subject (ruins); near background (barren, snowy slope); far background (greening slope); and 'infinte' background (glowering sky).
(2) The various elements are in balance, from the "Here" to the "There" with angular elements framed according to texture and role, and with the shape of the rail bridge shown as balanced against the topology of the scene.

In the first photo, the greening slopes to the right and left have far too much of a visual impact (without much interest) to allow the viewer's eye to home in naturally on the ruin. Thusss, it seems as though the ruin 'decorates' a photo of the context rather than the context supplementing the emphasis on the ruin. (Hard to put into words - but it happens in a second.)

Clearly, the glowering weather sets a mood, but the mood is brought out by the excellent composition of the second photo instead of merely 'noticed'. I think a slightly differing mood in the warm, sunny photo could be conveyed with better composition, and perhaps a very slightly different angle ... but with a suppressed contrast, perhaps.


Just my $0.015. :shrug:

[Blue_In_AK]

20. Good critique, Tahiti Nut...

It just goes to show how important it is to pay attention to composition, framing and using the proper lens. In this case, one step to the left made all the difference in the composition.

[bvar22]

7. I like it.

Well thought out, and I'm more than willing to participate.

I really appreciated the insight that was provided in the other thread about the pic I posted to the contest.

[JeffR]

11. Could you be talked into starting the first thread?

Not right away, of course, but when you're ready? Hopefully we can get some more opinions on the idea in the meantime, and then try to finalize some guidelines.

[bvar22]

12. Yes.

I would be willing to post my contest entry immediately along with the uncropped version. I really benefitted from the opinions posted to that thread. I wonder how many here had a chance to read those posts, or would have something to add?

A different picture would provide more grist for the mill. I have some recent pics I would be more than happy to post. Let me sift through the stack.

[JeffR]

16. Great!

:)

[Immad2]

8. I say go for it!

[CC]

14. Great idea though

I would say if things start slow it might be because it is summer more than the idea. Some of us are torturing ourselves while others are taking well earned vacation breaks.so don't get discouraged.

[JeffR]

15. Good point

I'd like to be on vacation right now myself. Somewhere in Greenland.

[F.Gordon]

17. You've put a considerable amount of thought into this

kudos
:patriot:

Jus' a couple of questions because I'm not clear on a few things.... and some comments.
:dunce:

Would all the pics open to critique be put in the same thread, or would there be a new thread for each pic? It might make it easier to follow for everyone if each pic had its own thread. Jus' sayin'. It may not be clear what comment is being made for which photo if everything is lumped into one thread.

Why the restriction on having the 1st DUer who makes a comment be the next in line for a pixie critique thread? I mean, I don't care. I'm open to anything as long as it doesn't involve fresh vegetables and me wearing womens clothing. I hope I'm wrong but I think you'll have a hard time coming up with 10 people who'll step forward and do this each month. But then.... you don't want to have the same "x" number of people being the only ones month after month doing this.

Screw it. I think your Roundtable proposal is excellent. I say let's put this ship to sea and watch where the wind takes it. I've learned so much from this group and continue to learn. And not just the photoemgraphilistic stuff. I've learned a bit about myself that I didn't know before. It's all good.

:smoke:

[JeffR]

19. You've touched on a couple of things I was unsure about

I had to figure out some mechanism to go from one photo to another, so I arbitrarily decided the first response would earn the next spot. I know it's kind of inelegant, but I couldn't figure out an alternative way of going. Ideally, the most insightful comment should earn the next spot, but that would leave it up to the OP to choose. Which could lead to favoritism, or people choosing the comment most flattering. Another way would be to have people vote on which comment earned the next spot, but that introduces a competitive angle I hoped to steer away from, and means we'd end up having to post polls to keep things moving.

One way or the other, it's arbitrary, which is a flaw in the concept.

We may not get 10 in a month, but even if we had 5 it would be a good chance to see a nice cross-section of pics and get some interesting feedback (I hope).

Separate threads for each pic would really be preferable, I agree. I just wonder if that wouldn't make it too unwieldy a process. Maybe if we set the max at 5 rather than 10 we could keep things neater?

Fresh vegetables and women's clothing should probably be left at the discretion of the participants. If the weather doesn't cool down soon, I'll be doing all my posting naked.

Thanks for the comments. Maybe someone smarter than me can come up with the fine-tuning needed.

[Gregorian]

21. I'm excited about this. And here's why.

I have been asking this question- What is art?

And perhaps this is one way to sense potential answers to that question. It's only one facet of photography. But I think it is the most important one.

It seems the more I look at photos, the more confused I have been getting regarding this question.

Maybe it's too broad for this forum. But it is something that can be included.

I think your post is very well presented. I'd like to be a part of this.

[JeffR]

22. Thanks, Gregorian

The prototype thread seems to be going well. At a bare minimum, there have been some fine pics showcased, and it's fascinating to see the variations of opinion.