Mahler's Third Symphony: your opinions please

[Barad Simith]

I just got Mahler's Third yesterday, and I'm not sure what to think — other than I like the fifth movement ("Lustig im Tempo und keck im Ausdruck").

I fell in love with his Fourth and Fifth the first time I heard them, but this one is confusing me.

Those of you who are familiar with the piece, please "grade" it for me, and add any comments you might have.

For those who are unfamiliar with it, but just can't resist polls, please choose the first option.

[Fleurs du Mal]

1. I've always loved it

Though it's been a while since I've heard it. I'll have to toss it on to give specifics. Mahler has been known to tax one's patience when not in the proper frame of mind however. ;-)

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. I'm a beligerent Mahler fan - love his stuff

But I have to say, his third I've not fully warmed up to yet. There's nothing about it I don't like, it's good enough as it is and certainly Mahler, but it doesn't "pop" like all his other ones. At least, not for me.

Sometimes a composer (or a painter or writer, etc.) just has to get out some of the blockage before moving onward, and/or spend some time flopping around with an idea/process so that the next piece will be better.

That's kind of how the third strikes me (and, if I might be allowed a rather nasty aside, what I think of every one of Bruckner's symphonies, except without the "so the next piece will be better" part of the process).

I think of it as a transitional piece. Essential and Necessary to compose in order for Mahler to grow as a composer, but not the most interesting to listen to.

[Tangledog]

12. Sumo composers

I don't think there's much of a comparison between Mahler and Bruckner. They both fit (uncomfortably) into the "late Romantic" fold and had a tendency to go on and on, but there the comparison ends for me.

Mahler was one of the most brilliant orchestrators ever. I'm not sure anybody ever approached the sheer breadth and diversity of his soundscapes. Bruckner had an expansive, but less varied, orchestral palette.

More importantly, the emotional tone is so different. Mahler isn't necessarily depressing, but he can be edgy, and his music has some discontinuities that are fascinating but keep me a bit off balance. Bruckner is never edgy.

That said, I'm a Bruckner guy. A few years ago, I was going through some tough times with health problems and a career down the tubes; I picked up a box set of Bruckner's symphonies and got through a winter with them. There's a serenity that spoke to me when I needed it. I still look for that, and still listen frequently to the 4th and 7th Symphonies in particular. There's nothing else quite like them.

[fortyfeetunder]

3. The only depressing one is his Ninth

But I figured out after reading his biography, Mahler composed how he was feeling:

One daughter died (she was young, about 5YO)
Found out he had heart disease (which later killed him)
Also found out his wife Alma was messing around with another man (a dude name Gropius)

I guess I'd be writing sad stuff too

[Barad Simith]

4. the plot thickens...

She married Gropius, and they had a daughter named Manon. The girl was very beautiful, and died young. Alban Berg dedicated his Concerto For Violin And Orchestra to her ("To The Memory Of An Angel").

I bought the LSO/Boulez recording of Berg's concerto just for the beautiful portrait of Manon on the front cover.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. And to thicken it even more, Alma was pretty well known

as a woman who happily "move around" from famous man to famous man.

[regnaD kciN]

10. O.K., you asked for it!

Once again, time for a little Tom Lehrer:

The loveliest girl in Vienna
Was Alma, the smartest as well.
Once you picked her up on your antenna,
You'd never be free of her spell.

Her lovers were many and varied,
From the day she began her -- beguine.
There were three famous ones whom she married,
And God knows how many between.

Alma, tell us!
All modern women are jealous.
Which of your magical wands
Got you Gustav and Walter and Franz?

The first one she married was Mahler,
Whose buddies all knew him as Gustav.
And each time he saw her he'd holler:
"Ach, that is the fraulein I moost have!"

Their marriage, however, was murder.
He'd scream to the heavens above,
"I'm writing Das Lied von der Erde,
And she only wants to make love!"

Alma, tell us!
All modern women are jealous.
You should have a statue in bronze
For bagging Gustav and Walter and Franz.

While married to Gus, she met Gropius,
And soon she was swinging with Walter.
Gus died, and her tear drops were copious.
She cried all the way to the altar.

But he would work late at the Bauhaus,
And only came home now and then.
She said, "What am I running? A chow house?
It's time to change parters again."

Alma, tell us!
All modern women are jealous.
Though you didn't even use Ponds,
You got Gustav and Walter and Franz.

While married to Walt she'd met Werfel,
And he too was caught in her net.
He married her, but he was carefell,
'Cause Alma was no Bernadette.

And that is the story of Alma,
Who knew how to receive and to give.
The body that reached her embalma'
Was one that had known how to live.

Alma, tell us!
How can they help being jealous?
Ducks always envy the swans
Who get Gustav and Walter,
you never did falter,
With Gustav and Walter and Franz.

[Sparkly]

6. I'm not sure how to grade it, but

I've always thought that Mahler is WAY under-rated. I love his music.

Are you familiar with "What the Universe Tells Me?"
http://www.vaimusic.com/VIDEO/DVD_4267_Mahler.shtml

[Lithos]

7. I like Mahler quite a bit

But at an hour and a half it is long and along with the requirements it places on the symphony and choirs to maintain the wall of sound, the Third is just difficult to perform with any consistency.

[benny05]

8. Heard Mahler's 5th Live about a year ago

by the SFO and MTT as conductor. They received a 8-10 minute standing ovation. It was awesome! :toast:

[stopbush]

9. The final movement is the closest Mahler came to the sublime

adagios of Bruckner...but he's no Bruckner.

I've heard each of the Mahler Symphonies live under Bernstein, Karajan, Maazel, Dohnanyi, Leinsdorf, Delacorte, Mehta, Abbado and others...some more than others (the Second is over performed these days), and, of course, I have many recordings and complete cycles. That said, I'm sort of "over" Mahler these days.

[demnan]

11. The Third is my favorite

especially the strange, bucolic 2nd movement and the moving Soprano finale.

Two recordings of this symphony I hold dear: one is a Mazel/Cleveland orchestra one, which my brother actually recorded off the radio on reel-to-reel. The other is the CBS Masterworks Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic, which I own. I actually think in memory that the Cleveland was the better of the two.