Any thoughts about this?

[rug]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/us/politics/05catholic.html

[CBHagman]

1. The Scranton story in particular interested me.

I was a swing state volunteer in Scranton in '04, and I recall that at St. Peter's Cathedra the bulletin insert, though containing the usual caveat that the Catholic Church never advocates for or against a candidate, amounted to a tacit endorsement of Bush.

I should note that Kerry won Pennsylvania. I don't know the figures in Scranton.

Tonight at mass the young priest spoke specifically about abortion and adultery. I was this close to standing up and asking, "Father, what about universal health care?" A while back I attended a series of talks on Catholic social teaching, and one of the tenets of Catholic social teaching is that health care is a right, not a privilege. One of the presenters, a priest, who happens to advise Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, confessed that the church really hasn't done enough to support health care. To which I say amen.

[rug]

2. I live in the Scranton diocese and I'll hear this letter read in a few hours.

This focus on outlawing abortion really leaves out of the equation what steps the Church is willing to countenance to allow the Church to enforce anti-abortion statutes. I emailed the pastor last night after I read this article. He said he is required to read the letter as is, without comment. He said his personal opinion is that women who have had abortions have suffered enough and should not be punished. Which really begs the issue. The Church cannot morally invoke state power to outlaw abortion unless it fully considers the penalty those laws carry. It's a dishonest position until then.

[CBHagman]

3. Have you heard what it's like in El Salvador?

A couple of years ago The New York Times published an article concerning the extremes to which things have gone in El Salvador, where the strict law on abortion even dictates how doctors handle a patient with an ectopic pregnancy.

You'd have to pay to get Jack Hitt's article from The New York Times website, so here's the link to it on the International Herald Tribune site:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/09/america/web.0409abortioncomplete.php

[rug]

4. No I hadn't. I was following the situation in Ireland until recently.

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely get the article.

By the way, I just got back from Mass. The letter was read by the priest, without comment. So far so good. But then about a third of the people started applauding. That was it. I did genuflect on the way out though.

[Matilda]

7. That's truly terrible.

The thought of women going through some of those backyard procedures is truly horrifying, and speaks
volumes about the desperation they must feel to do it.

Abortion is never a good thing, and few women would ever approach it lightly, but if the Church is
going to turn its face against contraception and dissemination of good birth control information,
this situation is always going to exist in some of the poorest countries. I just can't reconcile
the attitudes of these officials with the legacy of Christ - no way. It's positively medieval.

However educated and careful women are, there are always going to be some unwanted pregnancies, and
abortion must be available in circumstances that are safe for the mother. The real crime is the
situation that forces women to turn to backyard abortionists - nothing can justify that kind of
church ruling or state legislation. And the end result is so often that many women undergoing this
form of crude abortion are unable to conceive another child, whereas if it's done safely in a clinic
or hospital, when the time is right, those women can become mothers. Isn't that the Church's
ultimate goal?

[47of74]

11. There's plenty of idiots here in this country who would love to see us emulate El Salvador

Both in and outside the church.

[47of74]

5. Yep, the other branches of Christianity look better and better all the time.

[rug]

6. Which?

[pnwmom]

8. The big question. How about Episcopalians? That is, the Church that will

be left after the fundies leave them to join the Catholics (or the African Anglicans).

[rug]

9. Not for me. They baptized me, now they're stuck with me.

[pnwmom]

10. I like your attitude. n/t