old stuff. kerrys record. first medal records. his resignation

[seabeyond]

papers

the right is still yelling that kerry didnt realise all his papers. i understand they didnt have the paper on the first medal but they had note from doctor (doesnt that sound silly) showing kerry was treated. and they are talking 108? and saying bush opened all his?

[fedupinBushcountry]

1. his resignation papers ?

You mean his discharge ? It is really ridiculous when they put this crap out. How much did we see of Bush's a whole four or five pages, and much blacked out, and nothing proving where he was in those missing months in Alabama.

What has always gotten me is that Bush refused to take a medical, you don't refuse to take a medical in the military, hell my husband would of been demoted or worse for that. Why is this laid to rest Bush was also grounded from flying and never flew again. Why is that not being questioned? He was AWOL for 7-12 months, why didn't he wind up in the brig? That is what really happens to those who go AWOL.

[karynnj]

4. It is galling that all the gaps in Bush's record

were accepted with lame comments that they were missing, destroyed in a fire or eaten by rats. It is clear beyond a doubt that Bush was a screw-up protected by his dad and grandfather. There is no way that a man as noticable as he would have been would have not been remembered by anybody in a 25 man unit. Consider one photo that Bush had would have been enough proof and it wasn't offered. Meanwhile, Kerry was asked to prove the official record without using it.

I actually looked at the fitness reports because they showed an interesting view of Kerry - who seems to have been everything his crew said he was. It was amazing how many superiors commented on the unusual loyalty his men had to him. What sickens me is that even as they dig up things like photos where Kerry's arm is bandaged - RW people question whether there was an injury.

The idea that Kerry at 25 thought up a huge master plan to fool the navy, get medals, and pretend to have injuries is not even remotely believable. I really really hate these monsters. I assume they never stop to think that this brilliant, talented 25 year old kid with everything to live for and who had an enormous love of life risked losing his life every day he went out knowing that it was for nothing.

[karynnj]

2. Kerry signed the 180 which was the form they demanded

he sign - I've seen comments that said he didn't sign the 810 - I wonder if this and the 108 are typos or there are dyslecic RW people. Maybe a veteran can answer.

Their other complaint is that Kerry released them to 3 newspapers and not the world at large. The newspapers all verified, other than the medical records and his college transcript, that there was only 1 page that was not on Kerry's johnkerry.com website for months. That page was described as from his last Vietnam Fitness Report - he was given the highest possible rating and recommended for accelerated promotion. (Kerry said he didn't have it before - from the content, there's no reason to question this.

Kerry had several resignation related documents on his web site. (from Navy - to inactive reserve - to ready reserve (for many years) to completely out. Someone explained them on the Kerry blog, but I don't remember the details. Apparently the paperwork differs for officers (who resign commisions) and for enlisted men.

The RW nonsense here was based on an election day NY Sun story that claimed that Kerry was given a dishonorable discharge. This was clearly a last minute dirty trick. Their "proof" was that Kerry went to Boston College Law School, instead of Harvard. They took the statement in Tour of Duty that Kerry called Harvard, Boston University and BC to see if they would consider a very late application - and BC did. Their argument was that as Kerry lost in Nov 1972 he had plenty of time to apply and that Harvard rejected him as because he couldn;t be accepted to the bar because of a dishonorable discharge. They then said that Carter's amnesty fixed this. The ignore that Kerry passed the bar and even was a MA proscecutor in 1976 - before Carter became President. (Not to mention that Colson's dirty tricks people who trashed Kerry's 1972 election could have saved a lot of effort if this were true.)

[fedupinBushcountry]

6. I just found my husband's

Fleet Reserve paper. He retired in 1990 and according to this was automatically transferred from active duty to the Fleet Reserve on the day of his retirement.

The document also says " This certificate is awarded as a testimonial of faithful and honorable service."

[ProSense]

3. No one should be comparing Kerry's combat service to Bush's time in the NG

Bush's record should be more appropriately compared to Dan Quayle's. In fact, for the period Bush was AWOL, the comparison should be to Cheney's. In both cases, Bush comes out looking less than honorable.

[seabeyond]

5. i agree with all.... that all that you are saying.

my biggest disgust in htis conversation is for example them harping on christmas eve in cambodia. i have all kinds of records and articles on kerry in battle. the sweat and grime and danger of battle. him in cmabodia for sure in jan and feb.....

yet still they come back and say.......HE LIED ABOUT CHRISTMAS EVE.... what about that.

i tell them, this man obviously in battle fighting for you and still you ignore all that about the damn christmas eve shit

i was just looking for the facts on this matter. of course it is ridiculous to attack kerry, as they honor bush.

[karynnj]

7. That is true also they ignore the context

He was speaking in the Senate against the covert use of troops in Nicaragua in the late 80s. This was nearly 20 years later. Clearly the details "seared into his brain" were the feeling he had about being ordered to do something that was against international law and dangerous. The Christmas Eve events sure sounded like they were close to if not over the border. The trips definately in Cambodia were a month or two later. The entire period was incredibly intense and it sounds like they barely got time to sleep.

The point Kerry was making - of the feelings of a soldier ordered to do things the government was publicly denying - was valid. The date was not important to what he was saying. He clearly had two memories which almost 20 years lated had converged into one. This is a case of saying you did something in December that you really did in Jauary or February - from a distance of decades.

The fact is, if he had correctly said February, the same point would have been made. Bush can't say where exactly he was for 3 months and they don't care, but they make an issue of Kerry speaking without documentation getting a decades old date wrong by a couple of months.

[seabeyond]

10. this is all good. i jsut find it outrageous. there is evidence

that during christmas eve time he was going up the river. it is possible he had. i just couldnt find any documentation, though i found it for later months. no absolute proof only evidence it was possible

good post btw, the way is said it

[blm]

8. Some of Kerry's early runs into Cambodia were COVERT, transporting CIA

agents into the country. There would be no papers on that.

They should ask Chritie Whitman about it - her husband was part of those missions and she recalled that he and Kerry spent a Christmas together in Cambodia when she was on the Daily Show.

[seabeyond]

11. interesting. thanks

i will see if i find anything on her

[_dynamicdems]

9. This was pretty lame criticism. I never understood it either. n/t