Ed Schultz talking about Swifties now

[ginnyinWI]

Steve Hayes, Ex-swiftie there.


www.wegoted.com

[JohnKleeb]

1. What's he saying?

[ginnyinWI]

2. Steve Hayes was originally a SBVT

But they were lying and distorting and he left them. Couldn't get coverage--nobody wanted to hear his side of the story...


This will be up on his website later, I'm sure.

[ginnyinWI]

3. at first the media ignored them

so the Kerry camp felt they dodged a bullet. Then they came back in August.

[ginnyinWI]

4. he says they had a combination of truths and half-truths

which gave them credibility.

Hayes thinks JK's doing the right thing, trying to clear the record, whether he runs again or not.

[ginnyinWI]

6. he's a strong Repub but voted for Kerry

His conscience wouldn't let him continue with the Swifties.

[JohnKleeb]

8. This guy should have been interviewed

Here, a strong and admitted Republican who intially was part of Swift Boat Vets for Truth but left it for some reason. I sure hope if the 2008 nominee for either of the two parties is a vet that there are no ads trashing their service, that includes McCain and Hagel for the GOP. I actually met Hagel last year a few months after the election. It would be nice if campaign ads were actually truthful.

[ProSense]

10. It's really despicable! What they've done is

taken real incidents and 1) claim that they never happened and 2) created a distorted or false version of what happened. How anyone can believe this garbage is beyond me.


As far as when the liars first appeared, Karendc posted this fascinating account:

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2006/05/the_right_wing.html

[ginnyinWI]

11. they apparently lied to this guy, too

Because what they told him they wanted to do in the beginning was different than what they actually did. The GOP should just change their name to "Lies-R-Us". I know, some may be honest, but still...

[JohnKleeb]

12. Lies R Us to merge with Toys R Us in landmark merger

Mommy I want a John O'Neil doll.

[ProSense]

24. They have no integrity left! Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1315288&mesg_id=1315288

[JohnKleeb]

5. I never heard about that

What always struck me is the guys who served directly with Kerry were always the ones defending him the most. Of course the Swifties made it seem like they served directly with him so some bought the bullshit.

[ginnyinWI]

7. He joined in the beginning because

the others said they only wanted to correct some inaccuracies in Doug Brinkley's book--then it turned ugly. It was hard to tell from this interview just how closely he had served with Kerry--I'd have to look into that.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I think there were some of them who did support his reelection in 1996

against Bill Weld. I wonder what happened. It's a shame Admiral Zumwalt passed away becasue i think he would defended Kerry. He ran the senate here as a Democrat and loss and he also while head of naval operations was for making interrace relations better. My dad says that he lived in Arlingotn so he remembered him as a decent guy same thing with John Glenn.

[karynnj]

13. You wonder if he served at a different time than Kerry

In one of the TV clips, Kerry was trying to paticiently explain to a non-listening O'Neil that the mission of the swiftboats was different both before he was there and within a month after he left. O'Neil who was there 9 months later was there at a much easier time with a different mission. So, it's possible that someone there with O'Neil could question Kerry's depiction.

In reality, Kerry was likely understated in his description. On the PTSD Harvard video link, Del's description describes a hell in more vivid terms than Kerry. He alos pointed out how many of the crew had difficulty when returning. The commanding officers should never have put those guys through what they did.

[ginnyinWI]

16. here's what I dug up out of Tour of Duty:

Was Lt. Stephen Hayes, skipper of PCF-71

Was tasked with training the Swift Boat community to interact with the South Vietnamese in a less hostile way.

His nickname was "Steel Wool"

He wrote an angry letter criticizing Captain Hoffmann and the whole Operation Sealords operation after Don Droz was killed.


So it doesn't look like he was personally involved with Kerry very much--he was part of the Swift Boat operation.

[JohnKleeb]

18. Thanks

and regarding his nickname I remember working with that stuff in shop class, ahh 7th grade shop class memories. Seems like no one liked Hoffman, he reminds me of Cpt Sobel in Band of Brothers but ot be fair to Sobel it seemed that he did have a positive impact somewhat.

[ginnyinWI]

21. yeah, he was a bad one.

According to the book, he dreamed up that whole operation thinking of getting promoted to Admiral. So he sent guys like Kerry out to risk getting killed for the really questionable reason of "drawing enemy fire" from the riverbanks so they could locate the enemy. I mean, wasn't there a better way?
Not the first time nor the last that this has been done, of course, but it's the kind of reality they don't show you in the war movies.

[JohnKleeb]

23. Hoffman seemed like a real asshole from the book

His nickname was Latch right?

[blm]

14. The most SIGNIFICANT issue is that media wouldn't give him time AFTER he

left the Swifts and tried to get the truth out.

[blm]

15. The rundown of Ed's show should be put up in GD. This is serious

business. Media wouldn't give the guy a hearing after he realized the swifts were lying. They wouldn't give the truth airtime.

[ginnyinWI]

17. it's very telling, isn't it?

It would seem that the media was more interested in keeping a juicy story going than furthering honest discourse about the candidates, doesn't it?

Ed should have the interview up on his website soon--wait until you can include it if you post in GD.

[blm]

19. I'll leave it to you -

I'm turning into a pox out there. ;)))

I am so sorry, but I'm not going to let lies sit, and people just don't like it. The same people who complain that dems don't fight back enough with the truth, but when I do they get their panties in a bunch.

[ginnyinWI]

20. ok--I think I've got some political capital I can spend. :-) n/t

[ginnyinWI]

27. just posted it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2653762

[ProSense]

22. Where the hell did three weeks come from?

Why is everyone saying it took three weeks to respond?

May 4, 2004 - The Swift Liars, beginning their lies by calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", went public at a news conference organized by Merrie Spaeth at the National Press Club. (1)

May 4, 2004 - "The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event...The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.' " (3)

May 4, 2004 - Aug. 5, 2004 - No public activity by Swift Liars (?) Wikipedia entry (7) notes "When the press conference garnered little attention, the organization decided to produce television advertisements." (Ed. note - were there any public info or announcements, other than talk on blogs? Was there anything going on publicly? Did the campaign have reason to foresee what was coming - note that they must have, see the reactions to each ad).

Jul. 26, 2004 - Jul. 29, 2004 - Democratic National Convention held in Boston. John Kerry's military experience is highlighted.

Aug. 5, 2004 - The Swift Liars' first television ad began airing a one-minute television spot in three states. (7)

Aug. 5, 2004 - "the General Counsels to the DNC and the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign faxed a letter to station managers at the relevant stations stating that the ad is 'an inflammatory, outrageous lie" and requesting that they "act immediately to prevent broadcast of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time. " ' " (4)

Aug. 10, 2004 - Democracy 21, The Campaign Legal Center and The Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that the Swift Liars were illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections. (4)

Aug. 17, 2004 - the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges. (4)

Aug. 19, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced its own ad "Rassmann." (4)

Aug. 19: John Kerry responds directly to attacks on his Vietnam military service Thursday, accusing President Bush of relying on front groups to challenge his war record.

The May press conference stopped them cold, and when they reappeared in August, the campaign responded that same day!

This is from the Reseach forum, but I just posted the May press conference info and the text of Kerry's Aug: 19 response here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=273&topic_id=88933&mesg_id=89045

[ginnyinWI]

28. you know , I think this is the single most important thing that we can

accomplish here at DU. If we can convince people that the Kerry camp DID fight back, and that the media is to blame. That's one of the two main gripes everyone around here has against Kerry. The other one was the concession, of course.

[whometense]

25. I heard part of this in the car this afternoon.

Very good interview. Steve Hayes self-identifies as a Republican, but went out of his way to say that he had voted for Kerry in the election.

The sound file is up now: http://audio.wegoted.com/podcasting/53006Hayes.mp3

[JohnKleeb]

26. Good on him

It's the blind partisanship of everything that's made the nation divided in the past 6 years more than anything. The whole blue staters are this and red staters are that crap is lame. We're all Americans after all.