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Neocon likes Kerry's ideas (holy toledo -- what's going on here?)

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 10:02 AM
Original message
Neocon likes Kerry's ideas (holy toledo -- what's going on here?)
I almost fell over when I read this via Andrew Sullivan (yes I'm still reading him, so sue me). His name is Thomas Barnett, and he goes on and on about democracy in Iraq, but then says this:

So rather than dicking around with the question of which Shiite faction gets to claim the PM spot, like the U.S. and the UK recently tried to do, I would rather follow Kerry’s advice of creating external pressure via deadlines, as in, we demonstrate that our patience is not infinite and that we’re smart enough to keep this fight as focused on its essential Sunni-Shiite roots as possible and not let it become a wider front (and thus another propaganda victory for al Qaeda) in years ahead.

By forcing the Sunni-Shiite struggle to the forefront, we force al Qaeda to reveal more openly its anti-Shiite hatreds and that only makes clear to both our public and the region that Shiites tend to be nationalists who see a world of recognizable borders while the radical Sunni Salafis do not.

So distinctions to be made: 1) don’t give up on democracy in Iraq or anywhere else in the Middle East, because it’s quite possible the region will need to go the Gorby route on politics before the Deng possibilities for economic connectivity emerge; but 2) also don’t hold U.S. ground combat troops (note the modifiers there) hostage to that long-term process.

snip

I also like the Kerry op-ed simply because he raises the specter of a Dayton-like accords on Iraq, one that I would logically argue should include the Iranians.


http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/archives2/003140.html

In Andrew Sullivan's post, he quotes Barnett and then says this:

Barnett, however, is open-minded about the possibilities of our current moment, and even thinks John Kerry's ideas are worth considering. I still think that a Kerry administration would have been able to move this endeavor forward more effectively than the incompetents who helped screw it up. But we are where we are.


http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/04/patience_please.html

Like a starving dog, I am thrilled to receive scraps like these from conservatives who are willing to admit that * is a big screw-up, but are willing to go a step further and say, "yeah, Kerry would have been better on Iraq". We're living here in our Democratic land, where we have to deal with the foolish far lefty freepers, who really aren't that smart I'm sorry to say. It never occurred to me that there would be anything but dismay for Kerry's bold plan from the Right, but the honest conservatives do have moments of intellectual honesty and this is one of them, and I'm willing to bask in it, before they go back to their usual Dem bashing.

This is good news, guys. This is a SERIOUS plan, and SERIOUS people are looking at it.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent catch Beachmom
(Hey, I read people I disagree with too. Otherwise, I might as well just install a mirror over my computer and just call it a day.)

Wow! Can you elaborate bit on who Barnett is? Thanks!
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'll check into it and get back to you. n/t
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is very cool
I had been so busy scanning the lefty blogosphere (finding the usual "It's too late, he should've said this in 2004 -- no, 2003 -- no, before Bush was even in office!" *BG* kind of hysteria) that I didn't even think to look at these kinds of sites. Thanks for bringing it over here!
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I like support no matter who it comes from. It is nice that they can
put partisan differences aside and comment in the positive about Kerry's plan.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is amazing!
great catch. That last boxed comment is almost unbelievable - he not only praises Kerry's idea, but calls the Bush people incompetents, and says a Kerry administation would be more effective.

It's good to see that Kerry is getting some credit for being the brilliant competent person he is. (Wonder if his old adversary, William Buckley will weigh in.)
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Kerry's is the grown-up solution, and the smart solution--
Edited on Thu Apr-06-06 01:34 PM by ginnyinWI
Heck it's any solution at all; this administration certainly has nothing left.
It finally gets tough with the Iraqis--and really, that's a very traditionally Republican stance. If the Dems had, for some unknown reason, been the ones to go into Iraq, the Repubs would now be jumping all over them and saying exactly the same thing. Who says Dems are weak on national security!! How many times must that old canard be contradicted by the facts.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Give 'em an out
If this is what they need to get behind an exit strategy, well hell yeah. Don't hold US troops hostage to their internal politics. Sounds good to me.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. I updated it a little and put it on GD
Take a look, because this Barnett guy has pretty elite readers. This is different, guys. Kerry is getting respect in the right places. If Washington D.C. starts to chatter in favor of Kerry's plan, it may reach higher levels of the government. I'm not just saying this to promote Kerry. I really think people are starting to change their minds about "stay the course", and when I say people I mean influential Republicans.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I blogged it
Support from unlikely places, I think it's a good way to turn the tide. Really great catch!!!

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?p=21
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Great blog post, Sandnsea! n/t
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. If the neocons truly like it
it maybe because they wanna hightail it out of Iraq so they can start over in Iran.

That's my pessimistic take.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't think this guy is a neocon neocon
I don't know if that makes sense but I don't put him in the same class as Wolfowitz or Perlman. Or maybe I am wrong about this.

In regards to Iran, I am less worried about * Co., and more worried about the Iranian president. What is this guy up to? I mean he's arming, possibly, the Shiites AND the Sunnis in Iraq, saber rattling with torpedoes, and insisting on his "civilian, peaceful" nuclear program. I also read about how the Iranian bloggers were tortured and jailed, and some may be put to death for "subversive" writing. That hits me close to home when I hear about bloggers being treated like that.

Even Kerry said that our position in Iraq now weakens us in regards to Iran. Maybe my position here is more hawkish, but I've got a bad feeling about this Iranian president. I think he is WAY worse than Saddam Hussein, in terms of a threat to us and the West and just plain old religious fanatic craziness.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I share your worries about the president of Iran
I learned quite a bit about Iran last year, before Ahmanijad was elected, they had a reformer as president but its basically a dicatorship, the "supreme leader" has pretty much no power balance/ "Islamic Republic" is like a "People's Republic" its a lie.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The previous President was one of pro-democracy people
and it was said that he couldn't do much because the clerics had most of the power. (Bush oddly discouraged voting in the election because he claimed it wasn't a fair election.) So, it may be that although the country is trouble, the President may be constrained by his lack of power. (or it may be that he is in sync with the clerics.)
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-06-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Khameni yeah he was liked by the youth
Iran is a fucking joke honestly, women aren't allowed to run for president and the counsel of elders are allowed to disqualify candidates. The country is half under the age of 18 and many young people mostly Tehranians like Western Culture.
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