GRRRRR! Some DUers are soo shallow.

[elshiva]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x287329
Why the hell were there so many posts making fun of his eyebrows? Kaine did a good job IMO. I can't BELIEVE some on DU would expect us to get Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan. I love love those guys, but come on, they are not elected officials. Kaine is a good solid politician. Who the fuck cares about the eyebrow? Good substance about why it was a lousy SOTU speech...

Just posted this here cos the other forums are brutal. THANKS.

[JI7]

1. especially considering Bush looks like a Chimp

still waiting to see Kaine on Cspan repeat. i refuse to watch the Chimp.

[elshiva]

2. Thanks. Yeah, watch Kaine, not Bush.

Kaine is a good summary of all the stuff Bush left out of the speech.

[saracat]

3. Sorry Elshiva, I think Kaine sucked.

Together we can do better, the DNC mantra sucks too. What does it even mean? We are trolling for GOP votes? What solutions did he offer? Move to Virginia? He had all the emotion of a robot. We need to offer the people of this nation a choice. We need to have some passion not going along to get along. This isn't going to attract gop voters . They can already vote GOP. It doesn't help that all the polls have Bush in the toilet and the public see the country going in the wrong direction and our soldiers are being slaughtered in Iraq and the Dem response to this all is mild annoyance with NO solutions.We can do better? How?
And I didn't watch Bush. I watched Kaine as he was supposed to represent the Democratic Response and I don't think he did. JMHO

[elshiva]

4. Thank you, for being candid. Who would have been better?

Thanks for going beyond lookism. :hug:

ON EDIT: I'd still advise to watch Kaine on repeat and NOT Bush. Say what you may but Dubya was too long and just annoying.

[Mass]

6. You need to listen to Bush to understand why Kaine's answer was

inadequate, beyond the fact that Kaine did not deliver very well.

[saracat]

8. Ted Kennedy or John Kerry. Howard Dean Someone with "passion"

or at the very least a Governor or Senator who could talk like Obama. The constitution was trampled yesterday and Kaine just grinned and said we can do better? He sounded so much like Bush in content( I read the SOTU)that I didn't see a difference between the two of them.

[Mass]

5. What disturbs me is that some people have the impression that

just by saying we are more competent than the GOP, but with the same policies, we are going to win.

Rather than looking for common ground, we automatically go to the other extreme, hoping that Republicans are going to come to us. There is certainly common ground, common values, common interest from West to East and North to South of this country. Can the Democrats take a deep breath and look for them, rather than throwing anathemas at each other.

There is little I disagree in what Kaine said, but there was little I disagreed with Bush on the same subjects (tax cuts of course). I am sure that the implementation between what Democrats and Republicans would do goes beyond that.

It is particularly surprising because I had heard Kaine being very good during the debates with Kilgore and here I have to agree with you that I did not buy.

[sandnsea]

7. Damn straight we're trolling for GOP votes

We can't win with only 40-45% Democrats. If you're going to get some of those middle of the road votes back, you have to talk to them in language they can hear. If you want them to buy into a further left message, you better figure out how to sell it so they'll buy.

[saracat]

9. I think we might get more of them with some passion, and some solutions.

Even the Repukes are saying they would vote for a Dem with some "spine' and some solutions.This was offering them more of the same thing they already have! Why would they bother to vote for us? We are better ? How? We appear to be only mildly annoyed at the issues that are infuriating the public!

[sandnsea]

14. Some days

I swear that if I hear the word spine one more time I am going to travel the country and personally cut the tongue out of the mouth of every person that says it.

Let me just tell you about Eugene. On our news tonight we had people ranting in the streets and banging pots and pans, representing the state of confusion. We had a movie theatre with people in costumes, I don't know why the costumes, throwing popcorn and yelling at the screen. And they apparently also busted in on the Republican SOTU party.

Then we had the Republican response, HSA, business expansion, innovation, nice rational solutions.

Now you can't make this shit up and you can't blame the local media for showing what was actually going on. Equal time to both sides.

So you tell me, which do you want? Which response is going to win over new voters???

[ginnyinWI]

13. I agree--it was aimed squarely at Republicans

The fact that a lot of us thought it bad or inadequate must mean it was a success at appealing to them. He was probably a smart choice. If JK, for example, had come on the screen instead, millions of GOP tv-remotes would have gone "click" to change the channel.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. I thought he did a fine job

I just found myself keep going to the eyebrow. :blush:

[sandnsea]

11. That really was freaky

I think it must be a nervous habit because he seemed to get it under control at the end.

[fedupinBushcountry]

12. Just my 2 cents

and I have lived in Virginia for 17 years now.

First, lets get the myth out that supposedly it was so great that we had a Dem elected Governor, like only Kaine and Warner could do it.

Fact: Since 1970 there has been 5 Dem and 5 Rep.

A. Linwood Holton Jr. Republican 1970?1974
Mills E. Godwin Jr. Republican 1974?1978
John N. Dalton Republican 1978?1982
Charles S. Robb Democrat 1982?1986
Gerald L. Baliles Democrat 1986?1990
L. Douglas Wilder Democrat 1990-1994
George F. Allen Republican 1994?1998
James S. Gilmore III Republican 1998?2002
Mark R. Warner Democrat 2002?2006
Tim Kaine Democrat 2006?Present

Just since I have lived here we have had 3 Dems and 2 Repubs.
In fact Wilder was the first black Gov., I believe.

I'm originally from New York and I noticed of their last 7 Gov. 4 were Rep. and 3 Dem.

So tell me, what is the difference, why aren't we catering to the blue states to get more Dem Govs. instead of being locked into this mindset and cater to one type of voter, and you wonder why so many people think there is no difference in the parties.

I'm with JK we don't need two republican parties in this country.

Just my 2 cents.

[sandnsea]

15. No

But we do need to let a broad range of people know we respect the fact that they exist and will represent a broader range of people than Republicans do. Keep making them the party of the radical right and us the part of the rational center. That is really the way to win.

Which is not to say we don't keep aiming for a message that is inclusive and progressive on social and economic issues. But we can't do it at the top of our lungs.

[beachmom]

17. Maybe you get to hang out with a different crowd than me

But Tim Kaine won Virginia Beach, and Kerry was killed here. It may annoy us progressivies, but moderate talk is the ticket to success. Any liberal talk must be justified directly by biblical scripture or a church. The thing is that as I have stated in other threads, when it comes to the bread and butter issues of economic policy, these more centrist Dems stand for health care, education, helping the poor, and fiscal discipline. The only area where they are more conservative is cultural values. Like it or not, the country is also more conservative (than me and us) culturally. They voted against gay marriage overwhelmingly, they're for the death penalty, are for some restrictions on abortion, love their guns, and so on. They also don't like war protesters (sigh, sigh, sigh). I KNOW some of these voters. And they like Kaine, hated Kerry. Obviously, I don't think Kaine is but a flicker of what Kerry is. But men of high principle, integrity, courage and so on -- well, apparently, that ain't selling at the moment. (Can you hear my frustration within my reasoned thoughts?)

Oh yeah, and WHY is Kerry listed as a DLC Democrat when he's anything but?

[fedupinBushcountry]

18. Virginia Beach has a bunch of elitist

to bad they didn't connect with Kerry, since they thought he was one. As far as centrist Dems standing for Healthcare etc., since when is it only Centrist stands for those ?

Yeah Kerry lost in Virginia Beach but he won in every other part of Hampton Roads.

Kerry joined the DLC I think because he wanted Dems to be fiscally responsible, he has always been for that since he first came to the Senate.

[beachmom]

19. Sorry, poor wording

I meant that a lot of progressive Dems think that centrist Dems don't stand for anything, that they're just Repub lite. But in the case of Warner (with Kaine continuing), he talked softly but delivered the liberal goods, like healthcare for kids. We all know that liberal Dems stand for that stuff already. Having said that, I am very disappointed in a lot of Dems in the Senate, like Landrieu, who threaten to punch the president, and then vote like a Republican. I say speak softly, and deliver the progressive values.

The people I know aren't elitists. They're just plain folk who are Republican. They think welfare queens are stealing our money while ignoring corporate welfare. I can't get through to them. I don't think of military families as elitists unless they're way up the ranks.

[paulk]

16. I thought Kaine did really well

Clearly he was aiming at more moderate and centrist voters -

with an eye toward the 2006 elections

and I think that's a good strategy

-------------

The Democrats are not in power - and all the ranting and raving in the world won't get us want we want
until we're able to take back the Congress. And to do that we need the kind of voter that Kaine was reaching out to.