I am thisclose to leaving DU

[WildEyedLiberal]

I probably never would have come back after the election if not for the formation of this group.

I just saw the mostly highly recommended thread on the Greatest Page. I didn't click on it. It fills me with bile and fury and I think my blood pressure just spiked.

I hate the "left." Self-righteous hypocritical do-nothing politically correct whining helpless dependent petty dishonest backstabbers, the lot of them. Of course I still support true liberals - I am one - but I've had it with the "left." Nothing would make me happier than if ALL those whining bastards left the Democratic party right now. They clearly don't belong and would be more welcome in the Green party. DU is every bit as filled with brain-dead ideological nutcases as FR - the only difference is, FR doesn't tolerate breaking the ranks. DU doesn't even HAVE ranks because God forbid elements of the "left" put aside their petty differences to unite. That would be asking them to "lockstep" :eyes:

So some idiot wants Kerry to "lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way", huh? Guess what, moron: leadership isn't throwing out red meat and tough words to appease the lunatic fringe. Leadership is GETTING SHIT DONE. Which of you morons has proposed a Count Every Vote act? Oh yeah, that's right. None of you, because you're a bunch of whining do-nothing pussies who live in your parents' basement and bitch about starting a revolution. How many of your favorite Democrats have signed onto Kerry's bill? Oh, but that's still Kerry's fault.

Myopic, frothing, nutcase losers. Now I understand why elected officials try to appeal to moderates more - who the HELL wants these wackjobs on their side? I hope John continues to do exactly what he's doing. The people who matter will take notice, and the people who don't will continue to whine themselves into obscurity.

[Mass]

1. I spent the morning hiding threads concerning this subject - at least 16

This is just silly.

And now, we have an article in consortium news, with a disingenious title reporting what Winer (somebody close to Kerry) and Miller said.

What Miller said is what we have heard here. No surprise.

Winer, on the other hand, has a more understandable stanza: that Kerry suspects there was fraud, but has no proof for it and therefore stays silent.

[k j]

3. Mass...

again, I admire your stomach for the fight.

[Mass]

4. I am difficult to discourage

If they think they will change my mind on Kerry, they are wrong, and today, I have discovered a few sane people who are not even Kerry's supporters.

This said, my last count is 25(pro MCM, pro Kerry, or neutral), without anybody trying to stop the madness.

[k j]

5. Okay....

sigh, where is the thread? Please?

[karynnj]

10. They won't stop it because to the power that be Kerry is as much

fair game as Bush. It's freedom of press. After we were reprimanded for "ganging" up on people, I alerted on a particularly unacceptable post that essentially attacked Kerry's integrity, character and morality. Even after exchanging emails where I was told the objectionable post was the stupidest thing he ever read, his conclusion was you can be stupid and post here.

[karynnj]

9. So in other words, there is nothing new

The thing that is so stupid is if you asked people here which they would choose if a good fairy offered them the choice between:

- Genuine Election reform being implemented

and

- Election 2004 conspiracies getting hours of MSM coverage because Kerry said something and everyone who is anybody on DU knows that Kerry can command hours of coverage at will.

They would choose the second alternative even though the first furthers our democracy and gives us a better chance going forward. Also as there is no good fairy and Kerry couldn't even command reasonable coverage as a candidate, the only sensible thing for good democrats to do would be to try to support Kerry, Clinton, Lautenberg and Boxer on getting this cleaned up.

So, in a week when Bush is being seen for what he is, when Democrats should be pushing issues that define them - like helping people likely to fall out of the security net, they are attacking Kerry because a writer, with a vested interest and a strong POV, choose to highlight what was a pretty ambiguous one word response in an informal setting. (If Kerry saying "yeah" was a bombshell - his lack of response or question "Are you saying you believe the election was stolen?" - strikes me as unbelievable. One of his credentials is film critic, maybe he should play the scene in his mind - it doesn't ring true.)

[k j]

2. Wild-Eyed...

I hear you loud and clear. I resigned as a moderator, and then was (twice) banned from the place because I stood up to the foam-at-the-mouth ranting that passed for "discussion" there.

Just don't leave here, or else (shamelessly promoting my friend's place) go to http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/ (The Democratic Daily) for sane, goal and progress orientated conversation.

Personally, I have a zero tolerance policy for idiot rants.

[ginnyinWI]

6. I could not have said it better!

Thankyou! I wholeheartedly agree, and will admit that I was thinking the same thing this morning. What a waste of time reading all that hate. And in the grand scheme of the Democratic party, DU is just a little "tempest in a teapot"--a little sideshow of lefties who really don't matter much. And that makes me feel better. If I thought that all Dems were like this bunch, I'd be totally demoralized.

They are all about anger--and anger at the Right is not enough. No--they have to be angry at all Dem authority figures who don't say exactly what they want them to say, and exactly the way they want them to say it. Spoiled babies--there is no pleasing them, really. One week you are a star with them and the next you are either ignored or trashed.

This group is the reason I stay. We are Dems who want to build up, not tear down our leaders. JK inspires us with his example--but there are other Dem leaders who are working hard for America too.

I know some of them are RW disruptors. But they can't all be. Many are just little people who want to make a big noise. Better that they should get out there and actually DO something--but that isn't as much fun, I guess.

There are some good, productive members--Will Pitt comes to mind, and there are others, who I enjoy reading and who bring actual news, not ignorant, emotional, pointless, impotent rants. So I'll stay. But I'm going to start using the Ignore button in a major way again, after several months without it.

[fedupinBushcountry]

7. If it wasn't for this group

I would never come to this site again. If DU only realized how this posts are hurting this site.

Skinner came to this group and told us that we could not tell each other about certain post or link to them. Hell no one needs to tell me that all I have to do is click on GD or GDP and the Kerry hate is all over it.

Skinner told us to alert which I have and the results, just let the shit go on.

I noted the rule:

Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

Well I read in that rule to respect other members. I feel as if I am not even able to post anymore because I will be called a fool and more. Is that respect. I am tired of being slapped in the face because I happen to support a guy that has served this country for 30 years, with Integrity, Honor and Character, and is a true blue Democrat.

Truth to power, I feel like that is our big fight here on DU. That is sad.

[k j]

8. Thanks...

FedUp for the explanation (if I read it right). I know I used to see links posted in the comments here, and wondered why no one was doing that lately.

For what it's worth (not much), I rarely read "GD: Politics" beyond scanning the headlines once in awhile.

It's great to know there are others who are positive about what IS being done. Truth to power is right... even to our "own."

[karynnj]

11. What struck me as weird in that action

is that they allow almost anything in the name of free speech, but then reprimand us because we supposedly gang up on others. We are easily more polite, more reasonable and less antagonistic than the people complaining.

They go to a thread that has information on a Kerry piece of legfislation, speech or action. There is no call to action that Kerry has made that isn't for something the vast majority of them agree with. There posts have NOTHING to do with the OP, they only include the charge du jour of how Kerry uniquely let mankind down again. Aren't their posts the problem and aren't they rude to the member who posted it. (Speaking of which aren't the Kerry supporters are bad posts 100% against the rule.)

[Island Blue]

12. Also, when is the last time you've ever seen a Kerry group member

trash another Democrat in any thread whether it be in GD-P or in here for that matter. Sure there are those who we like more than others and we have been known to express that, but I've never seen one of us start a flame war over another Democratic leader. Ever.

I honestly think that some of these folks are just jealous that the Kerry group has nearly 50,000 POSITIVE posts.

[ginnyinWI]

13. could be

Are we "famous" with non JKG members? Do they hate our unity? Are they envious that our candidate was the nominee? Does it rile them up that he has not thrown in the towel and slunk back into the shadows of the Senate? I don't know--can't get myself into the minds of some of these angry haters--except to think that they just love the sight of their hateful words posted on DU. I wasn't here pre-election, but from what I gather, some of this bitterness goes way back to the primaries. So they will always resent Kerry and us, by association. Sigh.

[sandnsea]

14. I have this problem locally too though

I can't go to my local Dem Club meetings because it is exactly the same as DU and always has been. There's a handful of anti-war Kucinich people who hate Kerry over the war. There's another group of Dean people who like red meat conspiracy theories and want to be part of a movement. There's a few Democrats who watch MSNBC and CNN and are swayed by whatever they say. Our oldest member, a sweet lady who I adore, reads the local paper that carries some national columns and bases her opinions on that. Then there's a few issues oriented people. I got tired of the fight and tired of being marginalized a very long time ago. I don't know what to do but I feel like Kerry people are the only sane people in the world.

[Pirate Smile]

15. I have avoided almost all of the back and forth on this issue because

these battles are almost always an exercise in frustration.

I don't know if I'm unusual or not, but I generally watch the new threads as they pop up and read the ones I'm interested in - I might read the original post, and think - oh, brother, here comes trouble -I close it and never open it again.

I like the new information and I check on My Posts, etc. Frequently, I manage to miss an entire firefight going on in GD or GD: P. Am I sticking my head in the sand? Maybe. Have I been pissed off enough that I thought I would check out and not come back? Yes.

I think Catwoman has it about right re the current dust-up:

When I was a young girl in school, we once played a game
The teacher whispered a simple sentence into a student's ear, and asked her to pass it on to the next student.

It went on and on until the message was whispered into the ear of the last student sitting in the back of the room.

A simple sentence, such as "I'm going to take advantage of the nice weather by doing some gardening this evening" inevitably turned into "The weather is so nice the gophers must be having a lot of fun tearing up my garden."

Or some such nonsense.

Hope you catch my drift.

I see so many gophers in so many threads tearing up so many gardens.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5276348

[JI7]

17. yeah, especially if it's about 2008 and i'm certain most of the anti Kerry

threads have to do with 2008.

but i guess it gives some people a sense of power and influence.

[Pirate Smile]

18. The anti-Kerry people all flock to those to bitch and whine. Sometimes

when that happens it seems like it is everyone on DU but it isn't - I would guess that a large percentage of people who don't like that crap are just avoiding it - I know I am.

It isn't the prevailing view but it feels like it because that is who is posting.

Yesterday and Today on DU - John Kerry is the theme for dems battling dems. On Daily Kos it is currently Hillary - and I haven't checked any of those threads either - who the hell cares right now - I have my opinion but it doesn't matter yet.

I hate the internal battles that are so counter-productive.

[politicasista]

19. I like reading CatWoman's posts

She has a point. Thanks for posting that PS.:hi:

[Pirate Smile]

20. She usually does. Hi, politicasista!

:hi:

[ray of light]

16. WEL...I LOVE you! You said it exactly right!

[rox63]

21. I hope you don't leave

We are an island of sanity and reasonableness here in JK-land. And you always have this refuge to retreat to when it gets to wierd out there.

[Firespirit]

22. I would get out there and let fly at them...

....being both a Kerrycrat and having election reform as probably my top "pet" issue, plus being utterly convinced of theft...

It's a waste of time, though. I don't waste time trying to convert fundamentalist Republicans, because they do not see things the same way we do. Their priorities are not the same: They truly prefer politics of hate and exclusion. That is the single most important issue to them, which is why they still support Bush in the face of rank criminality and incompetence. It's a complete waste of time and energy to even attempt to convert them, because I think their minds are wired differently.

Same for lefty freepers. They clearly have a major problem with seeing things from the big-picture point of view, and seeing the consequences of the sort of stuff that they seem to want everyone to say. They like the politics of Rush Limbaugh: loud, bombastic, obnoxious, and utterly lacking in substance. One particular person that they often like was a loudmouth and look where it got him (in terms of his original ambition).

Personally I suspect that Kerry actually did say what was attributed to him, or something very close to it, because Teresa and Cam seem to believe it, but that's no excuse for an off-the-record conversational comment to be splashed about like this. It serves NO purpose in terms of actually furthering election reform and would actually make it WORSE if it got big press coverage.

But then, reform is not what freepers (of any variety) really want, is it? They want lots of big talk, lots of "martyrs for the cause," and no real change, because if things actually did change for the better, what would they have to bitch about 24/7? It would make their very existence pointless.

[Goldeneye]

23. Food for thought.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
-Anonymous

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.


And then there's this...the hips one always cracks me up.
http://www.miniclip.com/kerryworkout.htm

[Island Blue]

24. Those quotes would be great

to insert in certain GD/GD-P threads. No other words needed.

As far as the Kerry workout, that was hilarious! Silly things like that crack me up every time.

[k j]

25. Ah...

but the 'wingers I know don't think they're stupid. They don't know what they don't know, and they're damn proud not to know it. :eyes:

[BlueIris]

26. Maybe you should take a break.

Sleep on it for a while. The "lefty freepers" (who do not, in my view, reflect the "true" left--the actual "getting it done" lefties are everywhere, and they laugh at people like that) aren't worth getting this upset over, IMHO. So, just for yourself, step away.

About this part of your post: "...the only difference is, FR doesn't tolerate breaking the ranks." Yeah. As much as I like the fact that the mods are trying to "respect" "diversity of opinion" by tolerating a few too many of our "ideological nut-cases," the parameters for what constitutes an acceptable post around here do need some tightening. A lot of tightening.

That being posted--and I apologize for the rambling nature of this reply because a couple of days ago, I was as fed up as your OP reflects you to be--I've been disheartened by the outrageous citicisms of Kerry being lobbed at him from "our" side this week. But in the last 24 hours, I think I've been more moved, in a positive sense, by the kind of posters around here starting threads in his defense, NOT because they like him at all, but because the freepers are INSANE. That cheered me right up. Mainly because it was so unexpected. I don't feel like I can name screennames because of the "no 'calling out'" rule (speaking of rule changes--we should really come up with a less dorky title for that one) but--it was a couple of posters who a) aren't exactly fans of this particular forum and b) had, IIR, never posted anything positive about Kerry.

[jillan]

27. WEL -I know what you need...

You need to look at this picture.

[Island Blue]

28. Oh my goodness I haven't seen that one in a while.

The man does fill out a pair of jeans nicely, doesn't he?

[sandnsea]

32. So I have a confession

Back during the primaries some of us were debating whether it was a good idea to put JK in jeans. I was very worried about it, remembering Dukakis in jeans.

Now,

OHHH MAMMA, HOT HOT HOT, in fact I call this one "jeans"

[BlueIris]

33. Someone help out an ankle-biter...

What about Dukakis in jeans? I would have been nine at the time.

I do remember the unfortunate Gore in khakis on the cover of Rolling Stone flap, which at first I thought was more right-sponsored crap...until I saw the photo. Not that the incident appeared to do Gore any real harm.

I, too, have wondered if Kerry should wear jeans as much as he does. As we've seen on this website this weekend, he has really intimidated some people that way.

:-)

[sandnsea]

34. Ever watched the Odd Couple?

Imagine Felix Unger in a pair of jeans. Yeah, that was it.

[GRLMGC]

29. Me too

This recent stuff is really stupid and they're harping on other idiotic crap. I hate them so...

[paulk]

30. over the 3.5 years I've invested in this site

I've come to despise the "lefty freepers" as much, if not more than the right wingers.

There is no excuse for the sort of willful stupidity that gets paraded every day here at DU by these jackasses.

It's poisonous. It's poisoned me.

And it's not just the Kerry hate - there's a thread going right now that accuses all Democrats who voted for the IWR of being baby - killers. With the usual - "I'll never vote for any Democrat who etc., etc., etc...."

I am so fucking sick of it. Wading through the shit on this website to get to the worthwhile stuff is often a struggle not worth engaging in.

I was offline for about two weeks until the day before yesterday. It was... nice. What with the indictments and Harry Reid's shutting down the Senate... I thought maybe I was missing some good stuff on DU. Ha! No sooner do I get back online - it's wall to wall Kerry and Democratic Party hate. Over something that 99.9% of Americans don't even know, much less care about.

argh!!!

I should take my own advice from another thread here... chill out, make some music... that "baby killer/IWR thread really upset me. I don't understand - just do not understand why that kind of garbage still gets posted here - or why it's allowed...

[Vektor]

31. Don't go!!

We can hole up in here - to hell with those whining losers.

[MH1]

35. Excellent rant!!

Except the title, of course. Please don't leave! :hug:

This group is one of the best things on the internets. :grouphug:

The problem for me (and maybe you and others too) is that I come in through the lobby, and that means I have to wade through the piles of crap.

Maybe I (we) should put a button on my toolbar to come directly to the JKG page! Then I'll (we'll) never have to wade through the crap again!

:think: