Oy, this one's giving me a headache

[sandnsea]

I'm not supposed to say names and stuff, am I. No. That would be bad. Did anybody pay attention to the campaign??? :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4865193&mesg_id=4865193

[Mass]

1. It is always funny how, every now and then, somebody on DU

discovers energy issues and thinks he is the first one.

Kerry was not calling for an immediate pullout of Iraq, so people could not be bothered into looking at his signature issues.

[karynnj]

2. Doesn't it almost make you want to post

One of Kerry's speeches on the subject with a "who said this?" I've even seen posts saying he voted for the energy bill.

[Mass]

3. I am afraid it would have no effect.

I remember a thread where somebody (not a Kerry supporter) was trying to make the point that Kerry was getting it (even if he was not going all the way) on this issue. Many people saw only the word Kerry and blasted him.

[TayTay]

4. I saw that and I read some of the opposing statements

and I think these people were locked in crates in the middle of a deserted island last year. They must have been, how else could they have missed this. The Apollo Project is one of Kerry's big things. He is a big supporter of theirs and the programs they are advocating. (Hell he mentions finding alternative energy forms all the time, he even mentioned it in the Brown speech this week.)

Kerry was one of the only candidates for PRez to ever get the Sierra Club endorsement. His environmental advocacy is second to none in the US Senate. Honestly, I think people were either detained last year or underwent mindwipes because they make no sense at all.

I even saw a post on DU that said Al Gore was better than anyone else on envirnomental issues. I wish these folks would look up the CLinton record on envinmental issue. It was a low B-, at best. Wasn't Mr. Gore a part of that Admin?

[karynnj]

5. Maybe they were locked up last year

At almost every rally Kerry explained how alternative technologies and fuels could help with the energy problem, the job problem, and the environmental problem. I was astonished at how beautifully he wove all that together. His explanation was an elegant, clear and consise statement on some very very complicated underlying ideas. (That there was neither an energy or environmental question in the domestic debate moderated by a brother of a Bush partner was really too bad as either would have been a tough answer for Bush and easy for Kerry.)

I think that Gore is given more credit on global warming because he wrote a book on it. As VP, he really could only try to persuade Clinton, so it might be unfair to blame Gore for the administration's record.

I really don't fully understand the sudden infatuation with Gore. He should have been President, but he actually did run a lousy campaign. (Also, he can't run in 2008 - because he gave Kerry a way too big tee-shirt that said Kerry 08. Hey, that's as good a reason as many on DU.) What's weird is that they hate Kerry so much for conceding early (just cause he was over 100,000 votes behind)and hold Kerry responsible for not fixing the way the voting process worked before the election, but don't thatconsider if Gore did half as much to build the party after his loss as Kerry is doing or demanded the voting mess be fixed, Kerry would have won easily.

[TayTay]

6. I completely agree with that

and compliments to you on going into the thread on Kerry appearing at the Anti-war rally tomorrow and defending. (Just wanted to let you know, I saw it. Nice job.)

I liked Al Gore. I actually thought he won his debates with * in 2000. I couldn't believe the media reamed him on little tiny things and let * get away with the whoppers. But, the plain truth is, I like Kerry more. (And I don't think Al wants to run again. I just don't.)

Kerry's enviromental advocacy goes all the way to 1982 when he ran for Lt. Gov. He did a lot to publicize the issue of 'acid rain' in the Bay State, an issue that he now champions as trying to do someting about the mercury poisoning in the waters of North America. He really tried to make something of that Lt. Gov's job and focusing on environmental issues was one way to do it. (Gawd, that goes back 23 years. Isn't that a record?)

[sandnsea]

15. That guy knows better

That's what pisses me off the most. I know he knows better.

The only thing about Al Gore that I didn't like was the way he turned into a kindergarten teacher in front of certain audiences. I don't know what that was about. I came to find it comical, but I could see where some people might have found it condescending. But I've liked Al Gore since he ran back in '88, so I guess I forgave him some of that.

Gore, Feingold, Kerry. I just want a progressive in the White House in my lifetime. Maybe Carter ought to run. I don't care.

We were just talking about why we don't have a pool in town. The gym built a new facility, but didn't put in a pool because the city was planning on it. That was back in 2000, when everybody had a positive outlook and wanted to invest in our community. Then Bush got elected. Nobody looks forward anymore, we just try to keep schools and libraries and parks from getting cut. *sigh*

I think I'm crabby today.

[karynnj]

19. Gore did win the debates

I was astonished after the first one, when they emphasized (and I think amplified the sighs). Gore did make a mistake trying to be what the media wanted and not staying himself. I liked Kerry a lot more although it's hard to say why. I think it has to do with the creativity and flexability in the way he thinks, the natural eloquence he has when he speaks, and his personality. The smile and Massachusetts accent have absolutely nothing to do with it, I keep telling myself.(Gore is quite intelligent, but doesn't have that same ability to pick up on things no one else is noticing.) Also, Teresa is a hugh plus.

I figured I should enter the anti-war thread, because I had gone to some rallies so I thought they would attack me less. I've avoided the Sheehan one because I think that there is a disconnect. Sheehan will accept nothing but an immediate pullout and that's just not most (all?) Senator's position.

As to answering her question - almost every Democrat has said this is not a war we should have had. Which begs the question did her son die for a mistake. In 1971, Kerry could say "yes" as a participant of the war, part of the group who risked their lives and health. In the debates, he couldn't say it - even though he did say we shouldn't have gone to war - making it logical that those who died died for a mistake. I don't think it's a difference in his honesty, but (just as in Vietnam on his boat) knowing that he couldn't lead as CIC without taking on the role of cheerleader and not sharing his reservations. His plan was one that settled things then got out. I can't imagine what he would say to her -

I hope Kerry does meet with her (especially as he said Bush should). I think it's clear he cares about the soldiers and that should show. The Clark people are saying she met with Clark and is happy with his answer of having a regional conference. (which no one remembers Kerry wanted to do first thing). So, she may be ok with Kerry exit plan too.

[paulk]

7. I increasingly find DU

to be an absolute fucking joke.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1799859


always the same

what Democrat shall we hate today?

[TayTay]

8. I think it's the wrong forum as well

I am not comfortable with ANSWER and if I were in DC I would avoid them like the plague. (It's too much of a luandry list of lefty concerns that may have nothing to do with protesting the war.)

BTW, http://meetwiththemothers.org/ notes that Cindy Sheehan met with Ted Kennedy today. She was, according to the Independent in the UK supposed to meet with John Kerry and express her concerns as well. No press on that yet, but it could be coming.

Here is Cindy Sheehan's cheat sheet on meeting with Congress:

Have Met and Answered
4 Congress
3 Senate

Meeting Pending
17 Congress
8 Senate

Awaiting Response
416 Congress
88 Senate

3 HAVE REFUSED TO MEET

Tha'ts actually pretty good. I think Sen. Kerry is one of the pending.

[Mass]

9. According to the website, he is in the 88 awaiting response.

[sandnsea]

11. He should talk to her

I wish he would have been one of the first. And when he does, because I believe he will, I just hope he doesn't say some stupid freedom and democracy Hillary type shit.

[Mass]

12. And not do what Feinstein did: send an aide at the meeting.

She should be ashamed.

[TayTay]

16. I think he's one of the ones she has a pending

appointment with. Kerry and Kennedy did send out a letter of support for her when she was cmaped out in Crawford.

[Mass]

17. He is not listed as pending on the website

If you click on Scorecard, she lists those who are pending and those who have not answered yet. Kerry is in the second category.

It is possible the list is not uptodate, of course, but I do not know.

[TayTay]

18. I could only get the ones she has

actually met with to come up. I couldn't figure out, from the website, who is pending. So, I am going on the press info.

[sandnsea]

10. It's always ANSWER

That really bugs me. How did we let a group like that end up the organizer of every protest? If I didn't know better, I'd say somebody designed it that way.

[karynnj]

14. I agree with you

it bugs me too. Even as one of the mob, I felt really uncomfortable both with some of the speakers who were speaking for causes I would never back and the overall nasty tone.

[paulk]

13. I went to the big anti - war rally that ANSWER sponsored in Denver

pre-invasion. It was embarrassing. Every lefty freeper in Denver was there, (with most of them on the stage). Ira Chernus as keynote speaker. The usual ranting and raving. Down with Israel. Free L.Peltier. Etc., etc...

Ran into the Green candidate for CO 7 handing out literature. We lost that race by 121 votes. He's a member of this board, btw. Actively campaigning on DU for another run in 2006 - I guess the admin is down with it - they've ignored my e-mails. Seems like that would be a violation of the "support Democratic candidates" rule.


argh...

That thread I posted really sent me over the edge tonight. I really need to get away from this place for awhile.

there's just so much willful ignorance I can take...

[karynnj]

20. My experience in DC and NYC was the same

except I was with 15 and 17 year old daughters in DC. and with my husband and 12,15 and 17 year old daughters in NYC. The Anti-Israel stuff really disturbed my kids and it was hard to figure out who some of the others were. This was before the war, so I had expected a more solumn plea for peace.

[paulk]

21. my inner circle of friends are all pretty liberal

but a lot of the people I know in the business community are Republicans or Libertarian. I always talk politics with people - I'm always trying to convince Republicans that they should vote Democratic. I knew many Republicans who had expressed concern about the run up to the war - the rally could have been an opportunity to educate people - it could have been a bipartisan outreach.

But, no. From the ear splitting Bob Marley on the PA to the American Indian they dragged on stage to tell us about Chief Niwot's curse - it was the waste of a good afternoon.

"a solemn plea for peace" it was not.